Episode 51

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Published on:

26th Oct 2022

B5 Book Club - Atlas Isn't the Only One Shrugging

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer branch out into the expanded B5 universe with their first book club review. The origins of the Psi Corps and one of Babylon 5's best antagonists are revealed in The Psi Corps Trilogy Book 1, Dark Genesis.

#B5onCWin23

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

Xhafer:

This is a Babylon five watch cast hosted by two friends who have gotten

Xhafer:

to know each other while rewatch.

Xhafer:

And one of the favorite shows from their childhood Babylon five

Laura:

And I'm Laura.

Xhafer:

And it's book club day.

Laura:

But club.

Laura:

Yay.

Xhafer:

everyone finished their homework.

Xhafer:

I didn't.

Laura:

Jeff fairs fired from the podcast.

Xhafer:

Oh, but Ben is jumping up for joy.

Laura:

Oh, yeah.

Laura:

Did Ben read the book?

Xhafer:

I just know it's been sitting in my bag.

Xhafer:

He hasn't

Xhafer:

had a chance.

Laura:

Well, that's true.

Laura:

That's it?

Laura:

I don't know how many copies of this thing are still running around, you know?

Laura:

That's one thing

Xhafer:

it is very readily available on Amazon.

Xhafer:

A quick, a quick Google.

Xhafer:

It's or I saw it used for like seven bucks.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I didn't.

Laura:

I didn't know.

Laura:

I, so I think I talked about it when I got the second copy accidentally on,

Laura:

I think I talked about it on podcast.

Laura:

But the copy that I have is one of those Bound hardcover

Laura:

with all three books in it.

Laura:

And I got it.

Laura:

Half price books.

Laura:

So it's got a nice stamp in the front that says it's a property of one of

Laura:

the schools here in Oklahoma city.

Xhafer:

I have a ton of star Trek books that were like that.

Laura:

I'm just surprised that this is if I, you know, I don't

Laura:

know what it was at the time, but it's a middle school right now.

Laura:

Like, It could've been something different in the nineties, you know?

Laura:

But I'm like, why was this book?

Laura:

At a middle school.

Laura:

Not that there's anything inappropriate.

Laura:

But it's just a very weird.

Laura:

Choice.

Xhafer:

I at one point had.

Xhafer:

A complete collection of all of the star Trek, nemesis, relaunched novels.

Laura:

Wow.

Xhafer:

through.

Xhafer:

The end of the Typhon pact or the whatever, the one where they start,

Xhafer:

where DS nine gets blown In the books.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

like maybe 60 books or something.

Xhafer:

And I had read all of them and then I gave them, I think I've

Xhafer:

told the story I'm hot already.

Xhafer:

I gave them to Admiral Harper.

Laura:

That's right.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I remember that.

Xhafer:

Yeah, so, but, oh, I want to say maybe 75% of those books came from various

Xhafer:

public libraries across the country.

Xhafer:

That I then purchased online.

Laura:

God love those library sales.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah, they've got this used on Amazon for $3 and 6 cents

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

So I guess we should actually say the name of the book too.

Laura:

So we're, we're looking at the psych courtroom.

Laura:

Trilogy.

Laura:

That's what we decided to do first.

Laura:

And so this first one is dark Genesis.

Xhafer:

Written by J Gregory keys.

Xhafer:

These came out in between seasons four and five.

Xhafer:

It looks like.

Laura:

okay.

Laura:

I'm glad you did that.

Laura:

That

Laura:

math.

Xhafer:

And then also on the inside cover of mine at the very least.

Xhafer:

It advertises seasons one through four season guides.

Xhafer:

That I've got them next to you on my bookshelf.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I've got seasons one through five.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

You have all of them.

Laura:

Got

Xhafer:

I, yes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So this one came out in 1998, then it says the following.

Laura:

Year, the other two came So in 1999, we got the second and third Of the trilogy.

Laura:

So I think I heard some criticism.

Laura:

I can't remember if it was on our discord or if it was just on

Laura:

Reddit or like general Facebook.

Laura:

That some people didn't really think much of this trilogy.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

I know I read it when I was a child.

Laura:

I know, I read all three of these books.

Laura:

Couldn't tell you anything about them.

Laura:

Did not remember any of it.

Laura:

So coming back to this, this first one, it felt familiar.

Laura:

I was like, yeah, I do remember reading this, but I did not

Laura:

remember any of the plot.

Laura:

Going into it.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

There were a couple of twists and turns and they were still exciting to

Laura:

me because I didn't really remember.

Laura:

How it went.

Laura:

But I remember I do have the other hard bound trilogy.

Laura:

That has to do with Mondo.

Laura:

And I remember really liking that hard bound trilogy.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

whenever we get there.

Laura:

I'm excited to see how that feels.

Laura:

And I think that one's written by Peter David.

Laura:

If I remember right.

Xhafer:

I think, I think we've talked about that.

Xhafer:

On a previous episode, when we were talking about Peter David being urged to

Xhafer:

write books and he's like, no, I write.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Alright, star Trek books and Babylon five episodes.

Xhafer:

Leave me alone.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we'll have, we should have some time.

Xhafer:

Probably in between stuff.

Xhafer:

Cause women, these.

Laura:

those were important.

Xhafer:

These book clubs will take us.

Xhafer:

We're going to the plans to do one at the end of each season.

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

But there will be, we've gotten more seasons than we do.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we'll do Cycore book three at the end of season four.

Xhafer:

And we don't have one at the end of season five.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So the, the way that this dark Genesis starts out and really

Laura:

the whole book is this right.

Laura:

Is the Genesis of Cycore and you know about, I don't know, maybe after the.

Laura:

Midway through the second part, it's divided into four parts.

Laura:

That's when I was like, oh, dark Genesis.

Laura:

This is, this is the Genesis as a whole.

Laura:

It finally dawned on me.

Laura:

I have a little slow.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we've got dark Genesis, deadly relations and final

Laura:

So.

Laura:

The four parts in dark Genesis.

Laura:

We start with part one Holocaust, which is a uh, Very ominous name, right.

Xhafer:

Uh, perhaps too ominous.

Xhafer:

Cause I actually finished part one.

Xhafer:

And.

Xhafer:

Like, it's not great.

Xhafer:

Like, things are bad for telepaths for sure.

Xhafer:

But it's not Holocaust bad, It's bad, but it's not organized genocide

Xhafer:

bad.

Laura:

I think that that's the big difference between this telepath

Laura:

Holocaust and Actual historical Holocaust is none of it is state organized.

Laura:

That they describe it's all very individual.

Laura:

Led.

Laura:

Crimes against

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's tons of hate crimes against telepaths and it's terrible.

Xhafer:

And I'm not saying otherwise.

Xhafer:

But it is not like.

Xhafer:

Organized sanctioned genocide.

Laura:

Actually, and you know, it's, it's a big point that's made

Laura:

throughout this first section.

Laura:

That earth gov.

Laura:

Is trying to figure out how to deal with this sudden telepath.

Laura:

Emergence.

Laura:

Without violence.

Laura:

Without people being harmed.

Xhafer:

Because there's a ton of it immediately.

Xhafer:

It starts in 2151.

Xhafer:

And we get a little bit about the first scientific study.

Xhafer:

Published Health journal.

Xhafer:

That's like.

Xhafer:

No telepaths are real now.

Laura:

Yeah, the lady that we're introduced to in this, I

Laura:

think it's the first chapter.

Laura:

Who's trying to decide whether or not to publish this study is very

Laura:

like, tortured about it because it doesn't seem like it should be real.

Laura:

It doesn't seem like the study should be good.

Laura:

And yet everything she's looking at.

Laura:

It's all real.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it all checks out.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So they publish it and like the next day.

Xhafer:

People are getting accused of getting cheating at cards and

Xhafer:

getting killed on the street

Xhafer:

for it.

Laura:

Yeah, it's wild.

Laura:

It's it's.

Xhafer:

They even acknowledge they even acknowledge how wild it is that it's

Xhafer:

like, it's just a book, like a study who read no one, read this But it just gets

Xhafer:

sensationalized by the media immediately.

Laura:

And I think a little bit of that is one of the

Laura:

characters were introduced to you.

Laura:

Who's very pivotal in this first part and into the second second and third, maybe.

Laura:

Is Senator Lee Crawford and he's kind of a.

Laura:

You know, he's a Senate guy and he's looking to make his name.

Laura:

He hasn't made his name for himself yet.

Laura:

A lot.

Laura:

He's kind of had like one bill that was.

Laura:

Interesting.

Laura:

And he's looking for the next thing, right?

Laura:

He sees the study and he kind of knows that this is going

Laura:

to be the next big deal.

Laura:

And he wants to be in at the ground floor.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

He wants to build.

Laura:

Whatever needs building around this new subset of people.

Laura:

And use that as kind of his path to power.

Laura:

. So one thing I liked about this book at the very start is it

Laura:

puts us at a good point in time.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

2115.

Xhafer:

15 is when it starts, but it ends significantly later.

Xhafer:

It ends in 2189.

Laura:

Yeah, the, Call-outs to the what time, what year we're in, because things

Laura:

are moving at They kind of fall off toward the end of the book is what I felt like.

Laura:

Like I had less of a feel of where we were in time.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

At

Laura:

the end of the book.

Xhafer:

It definitely does a good job establishing like,

Xhafer:

Hey, it's been five years.

Laura:

Yes.

Xhafer:

happened.

Laura:

And I know that this is just purely because it's topical

Laura:

and I'm watching it right now.

Laura:

But I really felt like throughout this book, they were kind of doing a

Laura:

thing, like the house of the dragon.

Laura:

One of the things about house of the dragon is that there were,

Laura:

there are time skips in it.

Laura:

I'm not going to give any spoilers away for the show in

Laura:

case you do intend on watching it.

Laura:

But.

Xhafer:

Well, yeah, they, they've got a couple different

Xhafer:

casts,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

They have like young actors for the first half of the season and then

Laura:

older actors for the second half because they go through several years

Laura:

of time skips throughout this whole first season of house of the dragon.

Laura:

And that's what this book does as well.

Laura:

Like we start out with, I believe her name's Alice is the scientist

Laura:

who was publishing the study and we start out with Lee Crawford as

Laura:

being one of the main characters.

Laura:

We go through.

Laura:

Their whole careers and then we lose them at some point.

Laura:

And we go into the next generation.

Laura:

Of people trying to figure out this telepath thing.

Laura:

And the Genesis of psycho war.

Laura:

And I was thinking, I was like, man.

Laura:

This book could have been a really cool, like 10 episode.

Laura:

Pre-cool type thing, like house of the For Babylon five, like the way it's

Laura:

written, it really fits into that style.

Laura:

And it would really flow.

Laura:

So, I don't know.

Laura:

I'm just a little biased by things I'm currently watching that recency

Laura:

bias, but I enjoyed that part of it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

If you have trouble with time, I could see this being a

Laura:

hard book to keep up with, but.

Xhafer:

I mean, it starts at the very least the bits I read,

Xhafer:

every chapter starts with like a news headline or something.

Xhafer:

So, yeah, once that drops off, it probably gets a bit

Xhafer:

fuzzy, but.

Laura:

Yeah, because there's not as many things where you can date stamp it.

Laura:

When you get farther into the book.

Laura:

If, unless you're inserting those things like headlines

Xhafer:

Yeah, one thing we do get in the first bit of this book

Xhafer:

is a bunch about earth gov and how it actually kind of works.

Xhafer:

Like they don't like throw a charter at us or something, or

Xhafer:

like describe the government.

Xhafer:

But we get a lot through context, which I thought was super interesting

Xhafer:

because it always kind of confused me.

Xhafer:

Earth gov was very nebulous.

Xhafer:

In the show and we know now that earth gob is a centralized earth government.

Xhafer:

Hence the name.

Laura:

Sure.

Xhafer:

countries as they exist today or in their future forms.

Xhafer:

Elect a single Senator.

Xhafer:

To represent them at the centralized government.

Xhafer:

So it's kind of like if the UN was the government.

Xhafer:

And then everyone had to vote for who their UN ambassador was.

Xhafer:

Which is weird and seems grossly inefficient.

Xhafer:

For a number of reasons.

Xhafer:

Most Muslim highlighted by our current.

Laura:

right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Well, I mean, most of those problems would be highlighted by our current Senate.

Xhafer:

Comparison

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And why most legislative bodies that have a.

Xhafer:

Flat representation like this also have a.

Xhafer:

Secondary body that has a population based.

Laura:

Sure.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

It's possible that votes are weighted.

Xhafer:

For earth gov.

Xhafer:

We don't get any detail like that, but we know that like the United

Xhafer:

States has a single Senator.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

And it's this guy.

Xhafer:

And it's this guy.

Xhafer:

The hero of Grissom.

Xhafer:

Which is a good name for a moon colony.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, something happened at Grissom.

Laura:

I didn't quite.

Laura:

Get from the book exactly what happened at Grissom, but uh, Lee Crawford was there.

Xhafer:

So Grissom was a colony and it's like how you envision old scifi

Xhafer:

colonies where it's a giant glass dome.

Xhafer:

Over a city on the moon.

Xhafer:

And the dome had a crack in

Xhafer:

it

Xhafer:

causing

Xhafer:

an explosive decompression.

Laura:

Him talking about decompression because that's, there's a.

Laura:

There's a conflict where decompression comes up.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

That was in the first little bit.

Xhafer:

I remember that on the train.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So we do get, you know, some fun variety of settings in this book.

Laura:

You know, we spend a little time on the moon.

Laura:

And have that decompression issue.

Laura:

And then the settings are all over the globe.

Laura:

You really get that sense of we are in a time where travel across the earth is.

Laura:

Just we're all connected.

Laura:

Everything's possible.

Xhafer:

Yeah, the logistics are handled.

Laura:

There's not a lot of detail on that.

Laura:

And sometimes I did find myself chuckling because there

Laura:

were references to like vans.

Laura:

And cars, in such a way that it's like, You are picturing

Laura:

the nineties car or something.

Laura:

Not, not future Saifai car necessarily.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

. Laura:

They don't refer to anything as like flying or hovering or, you

. Laura:

know, You can give away Saifai signs.

. Laura:

Uh, Future car.

Xhafer:

Just normal cars, honestly.

Xhafer:

I don't think we're ever going to have flying cars.

Xhafer:

And if we do, they will have very strict lanes that they are hovering over.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Three D movement is so difficult.

Xhafer:

Most people can barely handle.

Xhafer:

To D movement on roads.

Xhafer:

If we're being perfectly

Xhafer:

honest.

Laura:

Oh, my God.

Laura:

I was just thinking some of these idiots that you see driving around in your

Laura:

car, we all know, we all see the idiots.

Laura:

Do you want them driving a flying car?

Xhafer:

Do you want them going up and down?

Xhafer:

Uh, right in front of you or right . Behind you where you can't see them.

Xhafer:

No, no, that's a nightmare.

Xhafer:

No one wants flying cars.

Xhafer:

You want hover cars or you want like, okay, I will, I will

Xhafer:

immediately offer a caveat.

Xhafer:

Flying cars are entirely within the realm of possibility.

Xhafer:

Once their driving is fully

Xhafer:

automated.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

I was about to say that self-driving flying car

Xhafer:

Self-driving flying car.

Xhafer:

Here for it.

Xhafer:

Computers can handle that shit.

Xhafer:

They're talking to each other, they're doing the thing.

Xhafer:

I'm not as

Xhafer:

worried.

Xhafer:

Uh, Yeah.

Xhafer:

let the robots do it, but, but human piloted flying cars.

Xhafer:

Nah, no, you don't want It sounds fun until you realize you just, what would

Xhafer:

you even call rear-ended like under ended top ended someone like it's bad.

Laura:

Jay Gregory keys knew that.

Laura:

And he was just doing us all a

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

Just like don't even hope for it.

Laura:

I laughed because there are a couple of references to things

Laura:

that happened in the two thousands.

Laura:

And you know, I think in 2011 we almost got hit by an asteroid.

Laura:

I missed that.

Laura:

Do you, did you miss

Xhafer:

I read that that was a real thing.

Xhafer:

That asteroid was known and actually came within.

Xhafer:

Uh, Distance of like two, two or three distances of earth away from earth.

Laura:

We did not

Laura:

get almost dinosaur though.

Laura:

That's he used the re the words almost dinosaurs.

Xhafer:

Well back when they wrote this in the nineties, they might

Xhafer:

not have known the exact trajectory.

Xhafer:

And it could have been a concern and ended up just clearly.

Xhafer:

11 years later ended up just passing by as fine and not hitting the planet.

Xhafer:

But we didn't know that that was going to be the case until like 2010 sometime.

Xhafer:

Cause all kinds of stuff can happen out in space where it gets

Xhafer:

moved a little, you know, like.

Xhafer:

Asteroids are not in a synchronous orbit that will, some of them

Xhafer:

are.

Xhafer:

But most are not that's.

Xhafer:

That's what makes them scary.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Speaking of which did you see that thing where they redirected an asteroid?

Xhafer:

NASA did.

Xhafer:

Like a couple of weeks ago.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That's fucking cool.

Laura:

Bumped it moved it a little

Xhafer:

That's all you need to do.

Xhafer:

If you get it out of the way.

Xhafer:

Far enough away.

Xhafer:

It's a big

Xhafer:

change.

Xhafer:

So.

Laura:

It's the whole physics thing.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

it's great.

Xhafer:

I was very happy about that.

Xhafer:

That was a super cool it's like they threw a satellite, the size of a car.

Xhafer:

Headfirst.

Laura:

And I think, you know, I heard them talking about it on the.

Laura:

The NPR news quiz.

Laura:

Wait, wait, don't tell me, I don't know if you listen to it,

Xhafer:

Oh, I love wait, wait.

Xhafer:

Don't

Xhafer:

tell me.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Liz says, if you don't listen to wait, wait, don't tell me do it.

Laura:

They were talking about, like they had a camera on it, I guess.

Laura:

And it was on the front of the satellite that hits the asteroid and they, the.

Laura:

It basically just shut off because it hit the asteroid and they're

Laura:

like, oh, it's, it's succeeded.

Laura:

And they're like, well, you don't It just went off, you know, So.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, if you see the asteroid getting really, really

Xhafer:

close and then it goes off.

Laura:

Yeah, that must be a funny video.

Laura:

I'm going to have to find that on the internet.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

So in first half we were talking about earth gov.

Laura:

We got a lot of great details about earth gov.

Xhafer:

Yeah, all the different Senate committees.

Xhafer:

So it totally makes sense that there would just be a committee on Babylon five.

Laura:

Yeah, it does make the Babylon five committee make more sense.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Just whoever's in charge of the Babylon five committee.

Xhafer:

He gets to talk to Babylon five and it does feel like that should

Xhafer:

rotate quite often from the book.

Laura:

Oh, yeah.

Xhafer:

There we

Laura:

Senator Lee is put at the head of the privacy and security.

Laura:

I can't remember something about privacy.

Xhafer:

I think it's privacy and technology or something.

Laura:

maybe that's it.

Laura:

Technology and privacy.

Xhafer:

And then kind of pivots into, well, not so much technology,

Xhafer:

but this is definitely privacy.

Xhafer:

It's a new type of privacy.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Uh, somebody being able to

Laura:

see inside your head is that.

Xhafer:

It's what is it?

Xhafer:

The committee of Metta, extra sensory affairs.

Xhafer:

I think.

Xhafer:

Am I remembering

Laura:

short and shortened to MRI medicine, sensory regulation, authority.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

There we

Laura:

Yeah, which MRA has different connotations these days?

Laura:

I don't know if they would have used

Xhafer:

Uh,

Laura:

yeah, so they, they start out with everything's under privacy

Laura:

because it's like any new thing, right.

Laura:

You don't have a good place to put it a perfect place to put it.

Laura:

You put it in a good enough place, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

So we're trying to regulate these telepaths under privacy.

Laura:

But we keep getting people keep getting murdered, you know?

Laura:

The media is being sensational.

Laura:

And so we established this medicine, Surrey regulation, authority.

Laura:

Which is going to handle this problem specifically and not be

Laura:

under the umbrella of other things.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And then they start mandatory testing.

Xhafer:

Which most of the populace doesn't consider a big deal.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I think that if you were rewriting this book Uh, or, or this story in some way.

Laura:

The events of the last couple of years would inform that a little bit better.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Xhafer:

Yeah, mandatory.

Xhafer:

DNA testing.

Xhafer:

They find a common.

Xhafer:

Uh, Not a common ancestor, but they find something.

Xhafer:

Uh, Common genetic marker.

Xhafer:

Amongst people and because of the history of genetic knowledge

Xhafer:

that humanity has at this point because of things like 23 and me.

Xhafer:

Which it kind of doesn't, it doesn't put a date on, but the book does

Xhafer:

successfully predict will be a thing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

They can definitively say that telepath, the telepath gene.

Xhafer:

Has only been in the pool for about a hundred years.

Laura:

Yeah, it's very suspicious.

Xhafer:

It's very suspicious and they don't know where it came from.

Xhafer:

And they just kind of, at the very least in the parts of the book that

Xhafer:

I read, this might sh I assume it doesn't change because of in the future.

Xhafer:

We know it doesn't change.

Xhafer:

But the general acknowledgement is that that cannot be made public knowledge.

Laura:

Yeah, Yeah, that this is the kind of secret that would.

Laura:

Definitely get telepaths all murdered.

Laura:

Uh, If we know You know that.

Laura:

This was not natural and it appears to come from somewhere else.

Laura:

Then you get that, you know, this person is an alien kind of thing.

Laura:

And so it's okay to murder them because they're not really human.

Laura:

That would be a quick, quick hole for people to fall down.

Xhafer:

Exactly.

Xhafer:

So the general agreement between the handful of people who figure this out.

Xhafer:

And it is a small group.

Xhafer:

Is basically just like.

Xhafer:

Destroy all the knowledge and kill anyone who knows.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Not ominous at all.

Xhafer:

Nope.

Xhafer:

Not, not a Portant of Sycor.

Xhafer:

Or to calm at all.

Laura:

Yeah, I think at other, I hate to do another house of the dragon analogy.

Laura:

But I'm doing it.

Laura:

Well, and it's not just how so the dragons.

Laura:

It's that sort of George R.

Laura:

Martin writing too, is that.

Laura:

We get some characters in here.

Laura:

That.

Laura:

We really understand them.

Laura:

Like we understand what horrible thing they went through.

Laura:

Or, you know, what they're trying to accomplish.

Laura:

We know enough about their background that we like them.

Laura:

And they're still doing some crazy things that you're like, man.

Laura:

You can't do that, but I want to, like, you.

Laura:

You know, you, you made me sympathetic to you and now you're doing.

Laura:

Awful things.

Laura:

And Lee Crawford is one of those I found him pretty sympathetic and likable, but.

Laura:

This foundation that he laid when he gets this medicine, Siri regulation,

Laura:

authority, we know what it's going to become, you know, as you're reading

Laura:

this book, you know, That it's going to become Cycore and it's going to become

Laura:

Bester Going to become, you know, Talia.

Laura:

Getting her brain wiped and.

Laura:

All the.

Laura:

The things that

Xhafer:

Everything that happens with Ivanova and her mother,

Xhafer:

like all of this terrible

Xhafer:

And there you talk about the meds to take away your telepathy very early as

Xhafer:

well.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

Very early.

Laura:

They are not a pleasant experience.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's not something that was like you know, formulated later

Laura:

it's.

Laura:

Sleepers have always

Laura:

been unpleasant.

Xhafer:

Yeah, that's almost immediately, they've got this thing.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

So back on the events of the book we've been talking about Senator Lee his aide

Xhafer:

and eventual successor, Kevin Bassett.

Xhafer:

Continues the search and establishes an ambiguous relationship with rogue

Xhafer:

telefax who don't want to join the MRA?

Laura:

Yeah, Kevin is a really interesting character.

Laura:

We get hints right away that something's not right about

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We find out that Kevin himself, you know, is a telepath prodigy.

Xhafer:

Who hides his abilities from the MRA and his boss, Senator Crawford.

Laura:

Yeah, it's it's Alluded to pretty early in the book,

Laura:

we get some vignettes of.

Laura:

Different things happening to telepaths.

Laura:

I want to say it's in like chapter two or chapter two or three.

Laura:

It's very early.

Laura:

and and one of them, we hear a story about a little boy.

Laura:

Who is on the run with his mother.

Laura:

And trying to flee these telepaths or these vigilantes.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

She in that.

Laura:

Escape, basically sacrifices herself.

Laura:

And there's a illusion to like adjacent Ironheart kind of situation with her.

Laura:

Like.

Laura:

As she's dying, she passes a gift.

Laura:

And we find out that that gift is the ability to hide himself.

Laura:

This little So.

Laura:

That is.

Laura:

What sets the groundwork for him to later become Lee?

Laura:

Crawford's like most trusted.

Laura:

Person.

Xhafer:

After all of that.

Xhafer:

Earth.

Xhafer:

Gov makes the determination that they form Cycore at this point, or is it still the

Laura:

Uh, We're still in the, we are in the MRA for quite a while in this book,

Laura:

I think We get into Cycore in the last

Xhafer:

the

Xhafer:

last chapter is becomes actually become

Xhafer:

Cycore.

Laura:

Like in the last part, because remember there was like the four parts.

Laura:

So it's not the last chapter, but it's the last section.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

We get a lot of really flavor.

Laura:

To the Babylon five universe throughout um, One thing that I really liked was they

Laura:

put us also in the point in time where.

Laura:

At the beginning of this book, we haven't met the Centauri yet.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Laura:

There has been no contact with alien races and that's

Laura:

actually a thing for like Crawford.

Laura:

He really wants to.

Laura:

Meet alien races.

Laura:

He's sure they're out there.

Xhafer:

Actually one of the, they make a really good note about it is

Xhafer:

it's not the search for alien life.

Xhafer:

It's a search for intelligent alien

Xhafer:

life.

Xhafer:

Because alien life is a dime a dozen apparently.

Xhafer:

They find bacteria on Mars and stuff.

Xhafer:

Like they find forms of life.

Xhafer:

To be pretty common.

Xhafer:

But it's intelligent life.

Xhafer:

Is is what they have not found.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And I think they even mentioned that, you know, there was some kind of.

Laura:

bacteria or something, something very small found on Mars.

Laura:

And I think it was found by interplanetary expeditions.

Laura:

I think they mentioned

Xhafer:

Ah,

Laura:

interplanetary expeditions definitely comes

Laura:

up later in the second section.

Laura:

Because they found.

Laura:

I believe it was also on Mars.

Laura:

It's somewhere in the solar system.

Laura:

They find some artifacts.

Laura:

And at that point, the telepaths of the MRA are commercial.

Laura:

They can be used for business stuff, which.

Laura:

I think that that's a natural.

Laura:

Assumption that if there's people out there that can read other people's

Laura:

minds, we're going to find a way to capitalism that really quick,

Xhafer:

For sure.

Laura:

And so they have a business telepath at interplanetary

Laura:

expeditions that they have like observed these artifacts.

Laura:

And he has kind of like.

Laura:

Some kind of mental.

Laura:

Breakdown.

Laura:

He has like a.

Laura:

psychotic break or something.

Laura:

It seems like.

Laura:

And then interplanetary expeditions gets rid of him real quick.

Laura:

Because.

Laura:

They're afraid that their secrets are going to get out.

Laura:

And there's an investigation into

Xhafer:

It's a detail from season four of the show.

Xhafer:

So I'm skip ahead.

Xhafer:

30 real quick.

Xhafer:

Listen, I'm just going to say it.

Xhafer:

They do find a shadow ship on Mars, like a spider ship on Mars in the show.

Laura:

I think the implication here is that these are not.

Laura:

Shadow.

Laura:

Technology

Laura:

though.

Laura:

I mean, maybe.

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

I don't know, because I don't think he really gives us enough.

Laura:

To definitively say,

Xhafer:

Okay, well, no more spoilers.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So these artifacts are definitely organic.

Laura:

They're at some sort of organic technology.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

But that could be either.

Laura:

For Alon or shadow.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

I don't think we get a specific.

Laura:

Statement of who they belong to.

Laura:

But.

Xhafer:

It would make sense for interplanetary expectations.

Xhafer:

Knowing what we know of them.

Xhafer:

So far in the seasons of the show that we've watched to possibly be.

Xhafer:

A bit shadowy.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

They're a bit shady.

Xhafer:

Punts.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I really liked that flavor of bringing in interplanetary expeditions

Laura:

and making them a part of this.

Laura:

Early on in this book, like.

Laura:

This company has been around for a long time.

Laura:

They've been exploring that they explored the solar system.

Laura:

It's.

Laura:

Not just something that came about after.

Laura:

We met the Centauri and we got out on our Like they were at the beginning.

Xhafer:

eventually it's determined that the MRA.

Xhafer:

A director.

Xhafer:

He needs to not be a telepath.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's an interesting detail.

Xhafer:

Well, it mirrors kind of the structure of the United

Xhafer:

States, where the leader of the military is a private citizen.

Xhafer:

And

Xhafer:

that.

Xhafer:

That's also a thing elsewhere as well.

Xhafer:

and other governments, so.

Xhafer:

I can kind of vibe with that.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

There's a little bit of historical precedent.

Xhafer:

unfortunately secret telepath, Kevin vacit is named first director.

Xhafer:

That's ruining it Well, I guess same, same though at George Washington.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's, he's not famous for his diplomacy.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I noticed there was another detail that slips in here because this is where we

Laura:

start getting into the family stuff.

Laura:

Because Kevin vacit becomes the first director because Crawford.

Laura:

Has an unfortunate.

Laura:

Excellent.

Xhafer:

Oh, no.

Laura:

But he does get to see us in tare before he dies.

Laura:

So that's very important to him.

Laura:

But he has Kevin becomes this Director.

Laura:

And we start seeing like some of these relationships that

Laura:

happened earlier in the book.

Laura:

These people are starting to pass on.

Laura:

They have children.

Laura:

Now we're dealing with their children.

Laura:

And one thing that they talked about when.

Laura:

They were looking at this gene marker.

Laura:

Is that the.

Laura:

Marker is passed down from the mother.

Laura:

And so The paths are taking their mother's name.

Laura:

And keeping it like they're, they're staying in the mother's

Laura:

line instead of the father's line.

Xhafer:

Hm.

Laura:

So, I don't know.

Laura:

I thought that was an interesting detail of like flavor let's make telepaths

Laura:

different because they They get there.

Laura:

They're Trait from their mother's line.

Laura:

And so they take their mother's last name.

Laura:

And one of the important telepaths that we're introduced

Laura:

to right away is an Alexander.

Xhafer:

Dun dun dun.

Laura:

So Maybe there's an important.

Laura:

Alexander later.

Xhafer:

Telepath with the name Alexander last

Laura:

Do we,

Laura:

Do

Xhafer:

know one of

Xhafer:

those?

Xhafer:

Was there one.

Xhafer:

I think, you know, if I think back to.

Xhafer:

The pilot, maybe.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

Oh, and I think briefly we had in passing an iron heart.

Laura:

And I was like, oh, oh, we, we know that name too.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

Vacit has a secret daughter.

Laura:

That's Thing.

Laura:

He has a brief relationship with a telepath.

Laura:

We also had a winters, but I can't remember if the, if that was who he had

Laura:

the relationship with was a winters.

Laura:

I don't think it was.

Laura:

But so the secret daughter.

Laura:

Is Fiona.

Laura:

And he sends Fiona to The underground basically.

Laura:

He doesn't want her to grow up in psych or, well, not psych work cause

Laura:

it's still the MRA at this point.

Laura:

But he thinks that there needs to be an underground and he has.

Laura:

His, his original life was actually with the underground.

Laura:

And he went to Lee Crawford in the MRA to.

Laura:

Kind of feel things out, see what he could do.

Laura:

See if it was worth his time to try to gather power in that organization.

Laura:

And then he did.

Laura:

But when it came down to his progeny, he still did not want her.

Laura:

Involved.

Laura:

With the MRA.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

She's eventually captured.

Xhafer:

And undergoes reeducation at a telepath concentration camp.

Laura:

Yeah, I think it is Sycor at this point.

Laura:

So this must be about middle through the book.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

Yeah, we talked about Holocaust before, right?

Laura:

And it being very personal and not state sanctioned and.

Laura:

What have you now we have basically concentration camps

Laura:

for telepaths who are not, or choosing not to be a part of Sycor.

Laura:

I think hers is in like Malaysia and she's.

Laura:

Forced to labor in the rice patties.

Laura:

There is mention of cobras all around.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

You know, that's an interesting juxtaposition that at first the violence

Laura:

was very like individual on individual.

Laura:

now we have this authority, That was a regulatory authority.

Laura:

And now it's the Sycor.

Laura:

And if you're not joining that, then you are in essentially a concentration camp.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

At this point, the uh, the Holocaust comparison becomes a bit more apt.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

She actually meets two telepaths.

Laura:

In this concentration camp.

Laura:

One of them is.

Laura:

Her experience in like solitary confinement.

Laura:

This other telepath manages to break through whatever

Laura:

barriers they have for that.

Laura:

I don't Uh, if it's just a distance saying, or if you know, like a lead line.

Laura:

Thing she's basically in a coffin.

Laura:

Somewhere.

Laura:

And this other telepath pushes through and his name is Matthew and they share

Laura:

a lot of psychic moments together.

Laura:

And basically fall in love and then the other.

Laura:

Participant she meets is Stephen Walters who is actually been sent by.

Laura:

The director.

Laura:

To break her out.

Laura:

Because he found out she'd gotten caught.

Laura:

And he wanted her to be free, but not part of Sycor.

Laura:

So he sent the Steven Guy to break her out of this camp.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

He, he manages to break her out right before she's assaulted by a

Laura:

Sycor operative, who is a psych cop.

Laura:

And he's like a 12, I guess.

Laura:

And basically they found out that she's also a P 12 and they want.

Laura:

This cycop to impregnate her, even though she's a, you know, prisoner

Laura:

in the concentration camp because they want another P 12 baby.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

All the fucking eugenics.

Xhafer:

Sycor knock it off.

Laura:

Yeah, it's it's real dark.

Laura:

They got on this like forced breeding right away.

Laura:

And it's mentioned a few times.

Laura:

Up before this, you know of, I think.

Laura:

One of the telepaths who's working with vacit is, you know, she's been engaged.

Laura:

And he asks her about, you know, are you okay with your engagement?

Laura:

She's like, oh, that's fine.

Laura:

And he's like, well, I could.

Laura:

I could scrub that for you.

Laura:

We can get you a different fiance if you don't want this one.

Laura:

And she's like, no, the cores mother, the chorus father, you know,

Laura:

Uh, But we're already on that, that breeding thing.

Laura:

And we're not above forcing our prisoners to breed for us.

Xhafer:

Fuck him.

Laura:

It's real dark,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

dark.

Xhafer:

So disappointed in you, future earth gov.

Xhafer:

Where's the oversight committee for this oversight committee.

Xhafer:

Dammit.

Laura:

Yeah, it really feels like.

Laura:

The earth gov of this future.

Laura:

Is very like, We're going to put in a committee and that committee has control.

Laura:

And as long as nothing else is bothering us.

Laura:

You know, We're just going to not see anything that's happening.

Xhafer:

Like you're telling me.

Xhafer:

Senator Jennifer Walters is going to call to complain about budgets, shit like line

Xhafer:

item budgets on the size of the rooms.

Xhafer:

And that committee is that nitpicky, but the Sycor committee just can't

Xhafer:

be bothered to acknowledge Sycor.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Well, in They did a.

Laura:

Early in the book, we do have an illusion that to the, one of the senators.

Laura:

I don't remember if they said from where.

Laura:

Is actually a Telepath and hiding, you know, and he's trying to gather power.

Laura:

So it's like, you know, are we.

Xhafer:

Yeah, the Russian guy.

Xhafer:

Ah,

Laura:

That's right.

Laura:

That's right.

Laura:

And so the telepath or like, The quietly running their own show.

Laura:

And if they can just keep the bad things out of the sight

Laura:

of normies, It's all fine.

Laura:

We can do whatever we want to consolidate power.

Laura:

But.

Laura:

You know, she doesn't get raped.

Laura:

Thank God.

Laura:

This book, doesn't go there.

Laura:

Stephen breaks her out as she's, Trying to escape from this cycop.

Laura:

And they managed to also have Matthew, the one that she was in love

Laura:

with, with them at the same time.

Laura:

I think he was brought in as like a threat, like you'll do this

Laura:

or we'll kill him or something.

Laura:

and they all escape.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

There's some interpersonal drama between.

Laura:

You know, To two men and one lady.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Laura:

and uh, you know, standard love triangle business that you

Laura:

gotta throw in some somewhere.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

It would not be a scifi book written in the nineties without

Xhafer:

an obligatory love triangle.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

We get some resolution.

Xhafer:

And Fiona ends up marrying.

Xhafer:

Yeah, she ends up marrying Matthew Dexter.

Xhafer:

As a little boy.

Xhafer:

Stevie Dexter.

Laura:

So they wind up moving the little boy after the third person in the love

Laura:

triangle, which is just hilarious.

Laura:

But, yeah, so.

Laura:

So they have this.

Laura:

This little boy.

Laura:

Meanwhile.

Laura:

The the director has been trying to figure out the source of where this manipulation

Laura:

to the human genome came from.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

And it took him to Antarctica at one point.

Laura:

Where they basically just found a big hole where something had been.

Laura:

Possibly some organic technology.

Xhafer:

Huh.

Laura:

Uh,

Xhafer:

Did they say what shape the hole was in?

Xhafer:

Was it squiddy or was it spidery?

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Asking for a

Xhafer:

friend.

Laura:

Nothing.

Laura:

So so obvious it's just a big

Laura:

hole.

Laura:

And for some reason, I don't remember the, this.

Laura:

Scifi explanation, but they have reason to believe that there's

Laura:

something else like this on Venus.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Laura:

oh, They were chasing legends and.

Laura:

The legends about aliens and telepaths like in indigenous cultures and stuff.

Laura:

And so they they're like, There's this legend that says one of them

Laura:

went into the, to the morning star and the morning star is Venus.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

And so they go to Venus.

Laura:

There's a space station around Venus now.

Laura:

Doing

Laura:

Space

Laura:

station.

Laura:

That's it.

Laura:

And I think, yeah, one of the Alexanders we, we met, we meet a few

Laura:

Alexander's But this is, this is one of them.

Laura:

They go to Venus.

Laura:

They S they see a ship down on the surface.

Laura:

And they're able to communicate with it somehow.

Laura:

So they, they go to the end of the atmosphere.

Laura:

The ship winds up, I think like, I think it was described as Enveloping them.

Laura:

And this is very explicitly of Orlon And the Does tell them.

Laura:

What we know at this point in season.

Laura:

And at the end of season two, that we know the shadows are bad and they're coming.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

That part of.

Laura:

why the telepaths were I was.

Laura:

It was by the oral ons.

Laura:

It's to defend for the it's for these younger races to

Laura:

help defend themselves is.

Laura:

What the stories is, you

Laura:

So.

Laura:

The, the war lawn basically gives them some knowledge and tells them.

Laura:

some cryptic.

Xhafer:

Oh, what, how shocking.

Laura:

And he says, I am here.

Laura:

I have always been here.

Laura:

To the director.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

And he says another one of the philosophies the director had.

Laura:

Was that.

Laura:

He wanted the underground to exist.

Laura:

Because he thought that the existence of the underground would make Sycor stronger

Laura:

that these two things fighting each other.

Laura:

We create stronger.

Laura:

Telepaths.

Laura:

Because they would be eliminating the weak as the underground

Laura:

struggled against the Sycor.

Laura:

Very Darwinian.

Laura:

That's sort of a outlook on things.

Xhafer:

Atlas.

Xhafer:

Isn't the only one shrugging at that.

Laura:

Ah, Jeffrey had just rolled his eyes so hard.

Laura:

They went back The warlock tells him.

Laura:

Evolution crawls to imperfect.

Laura:

Perfection.

Laura:

It ends in extinction.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

That's kind of his cryptic parting words.

Laura:

The director thinks on it.

Laura:

And he realizes that he was wrong.

Laura:

About this Darwinian approach.

Laura:

They need to get rid of the underground and Sycor needs to

Laura:

be building itself stronger.

Laura:

And so instead of he was just sort of half-assed.

Laura:

You know, pursuing the underground and letting, letting the, letting

Laura:

the fight make everybody stronger.

Laura:

No, he's not going to put up with that anymore.

Xhafer:

Oh, and there is another bit here.

Xhafer:

Per the Wikia.

Xhafer:

Which is before the moral on leaves, he leaves a telepathic command.

Xhafer:

In the mind of Ms.

Xhafer:

Alexander.

Xhafer:

For her or one of her descendants to come to the Alon Homeworld

Xhafer:

when the time is right.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Hmm.

Laura:

Makes lead us.

Laura:

Actions and the.

Laura:

Pilot, where she scans the warlock

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Make a even more sense because.

Laura:

She's being called.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Xhafer:

Vass, it's a daughter, Fiona and her husband, Matthew are

Xhafer:

killed in a Sycor attack on their

Laura:

Yeah, the Sycor basically has decided to drop the hammer on all of

Laura:

the, the underground and the resistance.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

They have this big resistance base that I think this This

Laura:

point, maybe we're in Tennessee.

Laura:

And it was like funded by some guy.

Laura:

Years ago whose.

Laura:

Son was.

Laura:

Taken by Cycore and this rich man was very unhappy about it.

Laura:

So he funded the resistance.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

And there.

Laura:

As they're like being assaulted.

Laura:

They're hearing from all their bases all around the world.

Laura:

That they're being assaulted as well.

Laura:

Like it's a big coordinated thing.

Laura:

They're all being attacked.

Laura:

They're all being taken out at the same time.

Laura:

They try to give Steven Walters little Steven.

Xhafer:

Middle Stevie.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

Let's give him a really cute name.

Xhafer:

What's called the little Stevie, because this kid is so innocent.

Xhafer:

Nothing nothing's going to happen with this kid.

Laura:

Yeah, they call him Stevie and the book.

Laura:

And I'm like, why did you call him Steve?

Laura:

When Stevie is right there.

Laura:

That's right there.

Laura:

So they take little Stevie or Steven takes Stevie.

Laura:

Uh, He's running with another girl like telepath girl.

Laura:

He put Stevie in her care briefly.

Laura:

Well, he tries to go back.

Laura:

And see what happened to Fiona and Matthew.

Laura:

He, he like, here's them dying from.

Laura:

His, you know, The telepathic scream.

Laura:

He hears them dying.

Laura:

Goes running back, looking for them.

Laura:

But.

Laura:

While he's running off doing something stupid.

Laura:

The little girl and Stevie are gone.

Laura:

We flashed to like a site coordinator.

Laura:

and the nurses.

Laura:

Taking care of the little babies because they don't.

Laura:

They're not with their.

Laura:

Their mothers and fathers anymore, because the core is brother, the Cora's father.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

Stevie has been visited by Kevin Bassett because this is his grandson.

Laura:

Because Fiona was his secret daughter.

Xhafer:

Yeah, and they do genetic testing.

Xhafer:

This is like, they've established that this is like legit.

Xhafer:

He would know.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

You know, they don't have to, there's no guesswork here.

Xhafer:

He knows this, this, this grandchild.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

And so he goes to see his grandchild.

Laura:

The nurses.

Laura:

It was slightly curious about that.

Laura:

So she goes to see who this little baby is that the director

Laura:

felt like he needed to come see.

Laura:

And he's been given a new name.

Xhafer:

Oh, what is it?

Laura:

It's Alfred Bester.

Xhafer:

Middle

Laura:

And he does.

Laura:

he does.

Laura:

tell us that the name Alfred Bester comes from the scifi author, Alfred Bester

Laura:

because at one point, Kevin is reading.

Laura:

A Bester book to his assistant or he's given it to his assistant or something

Laura:

and they talk about Alfred Bester.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

He's been born.

Laura:

At the end of this book.

Xhafer:

And August of 2189.

Laura:

Yeah, cause you hear some people talk about this as the best or trilogy,

Laura:

not necessarily a psych ward trilogy.

Laura:

and

Xhafer:

I mean, The subtitle of the next book is best to ascendant.

Xhafer:

And the subtitle of the third book is the fate of Bester.

Xhafer:

So.

Xhafer:

That's super stretch there.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So it seems like if you were, if you'd heard of this as the best or

Laura:

trilogy, and you're reading this whole book going where the hell

Laura:

is best he's at the very end guys.

Laura:

This is his pre cool.

Laura:

So we learned a lot about how Sycor came about.

Laura:

What telepaths went through in those years that are only

Laura:

kind of alluded to in the show.

Laura:

I know that I read some criticism that didn't like this trilogy very much.

Laura:

I like this book.

Laura:

I don't know how I'm going to feel about the other two.

Laura:

But I think this would be really interesting.

Laura:

Series.

Laura:

If you wanted to put it to television.

Xhafer:

So quick math, the Bester is 71.

Xhafer:

When we meet him.

Laura:

Okay, that seems to track.

Laura:

Like one thing I did notice about the characters in this book is

Laura:

that they are all seem to have life expectancies longer than ours.

Xhafer:

Walter Coney is 58.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

1994 playing Bester.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, human life expect if human life expectancy is up, it's up, you know, like

Xhafer:

that

Xhafer:

checks.

Xhafer:

Historically, that's something that's happens to every generation, right.

Xhafer:

Right, right.

Xhafer:

That hasn't that hasn't stopped.

Xhafer:

Has it?

Xhafer:

Oh, no.

Laura:

Yeah, that might be the most optimistic thing in this whole book.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, they D they definitely mentioned a couple times that.

Laura:

people are older than we would think of them being.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

Yeah, I liked it.

Laura:

I enjoyed this book a lot.

Xhafer:

I the bits I read.

Xhafer:

And I I'm going to finish you know, independent of a future book club and

Xhafer:

other things I do have every intention of finishing it in the next week or two.

Xhafer:

It was just absolutely mad cap for me for the last couple of weeks.

Xhafer:

So I did not have as much time to read as I would've liked.

Laura:

Yeah, I hope that that's not assigned for the upcoming holidays.

Xhafer:

Well I'll.

Xhafer:

I won't be in the country for them.

Xhafer:

So.

Laura:

That's true.

Laura:

That's

Xhafer:

I will be relaxing then for sure.

Xhafer:

But we do have a bit of a holiday coming up here.

Xhafer:

We've got two weeks off.

Xhafer:

So no new episode next week, no new episode the week after.

Xhafer:

We'll be back November 16th.

Xhafer:

With, uh, the first episode of season three.

Laura:

Yeah, I already tried to watch it and my son made me stop

Laura:

because he wanted to watch cartoons.

Laura:

So I'll have Stragan.

Xhafer:

Well, we've got a little bit of time.

Xhafer:

So.

Xhafer:

But, yeah, we'll, we'll see you in a couple of weeks internet Before we go.

Xhafer:

like.

Xhafer:

Thank God.

Xhafer:

Jeremy Siegel.

Xhafer:

Of course for our lovely theme music, you can find more of his work

Xhafer:

Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

Laura:

And thank you to angry duck time machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

And go ahead, join our discord.

Xhafer:

Shoot us an email.

Xhafer:

Who are you?

Xhafer:

at gmail.com.

Xhafer:

We're going to do a mailbag segment, probably episode two or three of season

Xhafer:

So, if you want to send us a letter, we'll read it on the air and talk about your

Xhafer:

thoughts, share your thoughts on the show.

Laura:

And we'll see you again soon.

Xhafer:

Have a good couple of weeks, internet.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.