Episode 230

full
Published on:

13th Aug 2026

BSG S4E15 - Clamped into a Clip Show Device (Featuring Ryan from Yum Yum Podcast)

Ryan from Yum Yum Podcast returns to reveal his secret plan. Laura's tinfoil hat theory pays off. Xhafer writes Anders' campaign slogan. This episode covers Battlestar Galactica Season 4, Episode 15: No Exit.

Discord: https://discord.gg/MUHKDDk6TN

Merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/WhatHappenedHerePods

Transcript
Laura:

Hello and welcome to Who Are You?

2

:

We're a reasonably well done sci-fi

watch cast by a couple of former

3

:

strangers who are now friends and

watching:

4

:

I'm Laura,

5

:

Xhafer: And I'm Jafair.

6

:

We

7

:

Laura: we have a special guest today

8

:

Xhafer: do.

9

:

Ryan: Hello, everyone.

10

:

I'm back.

11

:

It's me, Ryan Slowinski here.

12

:

I'm back for a very important

episode of this show, one that

13

:

I knew from the very start I was

like, "I've gotta be the guest on."

14

:

I knew

15

:

Xhafer: You did.

16

:

Y- I think you called this

one, like, when, where I'm

17

:

like, "Hey, we're doing BSG."

18

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

19

:

Xhafer: take this season one episode

and this season four episode,

20

:

we'll figure out the rest later."

21

:

Ryan: I had to be crafty

22

:

Laura: you had me fooled

though, because the last

23

:

episode, episodes?

24

:

No, whatever we had

25

:

Xhafer: Last episode.

26

:

Oh, yeah

27

:

Laura: was Romo Lampkin,

28

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm

29

:

Laura: right before this one, we saw

Romo Lampkin again, and I thought,

30

:

"Okay, so we're not done with Romo

Lampkin 'cause Ryan's gonna be on,

31

:

and he's gonna wanna talk about that

32

:

Ryan: Yeah.

33

:

Hmm

34

:

Laura: was zero Romo Lampkins

35

:

Ryan: Zero.

36

:

You know, you go, I fool

you once, shame on you.

37

:

Fool me twice, won't get fooled again.

38

:

We are here because there's an

important character we need to talk

39

:

about, and also Dean Stockwell.

40

:

I love Dean Stockwell.

41

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

42

:

Ryan: fan

43

:

Laura: about your other

favorite character.

44

:

I just sort of let that

go, and I'm very sorry,

45

:

Ryan: I tricked, I tricked you because I

knew if I chose nothing but Ellen episodes

46

:

and then the last season is the one where

it's like, "Oh, Ryan chose way ahead,"

47

:

it will be an Ellen episode, won't it?

48

:

So, so season three I'm

like, "No, no, no, no.

49

:

Let's go later and go to

our good old friend Romo

50

:

Laura: Yeah.

51

:

Xhafer: Kick off

52

:

Laura: I, I was, mean, up until this

episode started, I was like, "This

53

:

whole Ellen thing has to be a…

54

:

has to be a fake-out.

55

:

Something else is happening.

56

:

It's not Ellen.

57

:

It's not that."

58

:

Ryan: Wow, you were like the fans of BSG

in real time when this was airing because

59

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

60

:

Ryan: hated-- Not everyone, but like

a lot of people fucking hated that the

61

:

final Cylon, like, "Ooh, the final five.

62

:

Who's the final Cylon?"

63

:

And it's Ellen Tigh.

64

:

And people were like, "No,

no, that, that can't be true.

65

:

I reject that.

66

:

Ha ha, nice try."

67

:

And then this episode is just Ellen Tigh

being like, "Hey, do you know who I am?

68

:

That's right, I'm the-- I'm

actually one of the most important

69

:

characters of the entire series.

70

:

Ha ha, fuck you."

71

:

Laura: I mean, I love that for her.

72

:

Like, I,

73

:

Ryan: I do too

74

:

Laura: I didn't hate it

when it was happening.

75

:

I was like, "Oh, I just, I just really

thought it wasn't that, but okay."

76

:

Xhafer: It is though.

77

:

Yeah.

78

:

Your amount of disbelief, especially

'cause God, we're recording

79

:

this over a month in advance.

80

:

Laura: yeah

81

:

Xhafer: and you keep doubling

down on it not being Ellen, and

82

:

Spoiler Town is already having

a giant laugh at you about it

83

:

Ryan: Yeah

84

:

Xhafer: Ellen.

85

:

So

86

:

Laura: they were me when

this originally aired.

87

:

I

88

:

Xhafer: True.

89

:

Laura: that.

90

:

Yeah

91

:

Ryan: I like when the show literally has

Saul basically look in the camera and

92

:

say, "Ellen is the fifth and final Cylon."

93

:

And then you are just like, "No.

94

:

No, that can't be right.

95

:

That can't be it.

96

:

Nope.

97

:

Not fooling me, Ron.

98

:

You're not gonna get me.

99

:

I know that you have a

plan, and this ain't it."

100

:

And then this episode starts,

and it's like, "Hey, it's Ellen."

101

:

They just basically say,

"It's Ellen, everyone.

102

:

Did you get it?"

103

:

Laura: I, I really liked

her though, in this episode.

104

:

I'm, I am kinda wondering, like, huh,

how did that hap- Like, 'cause, you

105

:

know, as we find out in this episode

that they were, they were mind wiped,

106

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

107

:

Laura: not aware, and, and they

didn't do it to themselves.

108

:

So, like, her whole personality

seems totally different.

109

:

Ryan: That's what I love.

110

:

I love it.

111

:

Love it

112

:

Laura: I don't know.

113

:

I'd love to talk more about it,

but maybe we should tell the

114

:

people more about this episode.

115

:

Ryan: That's true

116

:

Laura: right

117

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

118

:

M- yeah, we can, we can get

into the episode proper here.

119

:

We've got Battlestar Galactica,

Season 4, Episode 15, "No Exit."

120

:

We get a crazy series recap to start,

121

:

Laura: Yeah,

122

:

Xhafer: point where I thought I

had put the wrong episode on and it

123

:

accidentally started, like, the plan

or the Season 4 premiere or something,

124

:

and just, like, picked the wrong one.

125

:

'Cause it starts way back at the beginning

126

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

127

:

Xhafer: and walks us through everything.

128

:

The 11 Cylons known, one was sacrificed.

129

:

And then we see Saul poisoning

Ellen on New Caprica, and then

130

:

follow that to Ellen's resurrection

131

:

Laura: we also found out, I had kind of

forgotten, like, where our starting number

132

:

was at, so they gave that to me again, and

I actually wrote it down in my notebook.

133

:

Ryan: Yeah

134

:

Laura: 50,000 and now we're down to what?

135

:

30,

136

:

Ryan: Nine or something?

137

:

A lot of people have died.

138

:

A lot of people got, got killed

on Nuke Africa especially

139

:

Xhafer: is the count on this episode

140

:

Ryan: Oof

141

:

Laura: I I had predicted more by the

end of this show though, so maybe…

142

:

I'll be happy to be wrong.

143

:

That'd be okay.

144

:

Ryan: we've got more episodes.

145

:

I absolutely love this opening.

146

:

I like that they kind of go back to what

the show previously did with the whole,

147

:

"Oh, here's the mystery box of the show.

148

:

Like, these Cylons and they have a plan.

149

:

Remember when we teased you with

the idea that they had a plan?"

150

:

Um, and, and now we're reinterpreting

that with the final five, and now

151

:

the final one, and here we are going

back to that scene where Ellen Nobily

152

:

gets sacrificed, and it's all tragic

and da, da, da to hard cutting to

153

:

her waking up in the sci-fi goo.

154

:

And it's all panic attack and shaky

and weird, and you're just like,

155

:

"Yes, this is, this is television.

156

:

This is golden age stuff."

157

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

158

:

Laura: I, this is when I had

to go ahead and just accept my

159

:

wrongness so I could move on in the

160

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm

161

:

Laura: be happy.

162

:

But I was like, "Meh, I, okay, I'm

wrong about the final Cylon, but I

163

:

still maintain super-secret 13th Cylon."

164

:

Xhafer: You did call that.

165

:

Ryan: We'll get there.

166

:

Xhafer: mean, we'll get there though.

167

:

There's still,

168

:

Ryan: There's a lot

169

:

Xhafer: there's still

stuff going on there.

170

:

She wakes up screaming, as we mentioned.

171

:

A centurion helps her out of the

goo, puts away its sharp hands

172

:

Laura: She says it's okay.

173

:

It's

174

:

Ryan: Hmm.

175

:

Laura: help me.

176

:

That's all

177

:

Ryan: She, yeah, and her complete demeanor

is different to what we have seen.

178

:

She's now very much accepted what

this is, and she knows her role and

179

:

acts like the mother to even the

centurion, and it, and it respects her.

180

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

181

:

Ryan: And she just-- Everything about

Kate Vernon's performance is now in the

182

:

exact opposite mode of what we've seen

her play for the other three seasons

183

:

of the show, and it's, it's amazing to

watch just how easily she just sheds

184

:

the old Ellen persona and this new one,

which is technically the original one,

185

:

which is mind-boggling but fun to watch.

186

:

Laura: Technically the right one,

187

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

188

:

Laura: I, I was a little confused of like,

okay, w- we start finding out that John

189

:

hates her, and I'm like, "So why does

he have a, a goo sitting around for…

190

:

Like, why does he have a body and stuff?"

191

:

Like, what?

192

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm

193

:

Laura: for everyone else?

194

:

Like, I don't know.

195

:

Ryan: Now she has some theories

about that later in the episode too

196

:

Laura: Okay.

197

:

Okay.

198

:

And, a- and there was a distance

component, like, the resurrection.

199

:

You needed to be within a

certain distance, so is he just,

200

:

like, been at a distance to…

201

:

What a

202

:

Xhafer: Well,

203

:

Laura: weirdo

204

:

Xhafer: I mean, this would've

been New Caprica, so if it's

205

:

a normal resurrection hub,

206

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm

207

:

Xhafer: you know, they, they had

one within range from New Caprica

208

:

when they were doing that stuff

209

:

Laura: that, okay.

210

:

Yeah, that

211

:

Ryan: Because he died on New

Caprica and he got resurrected

212

:

and he was like, "Ah, it sucked.

213

:

I had to like slash my own neck.

214

:

How ba- you left me out in

the desert to die, you fucks."

215

:

Like, we know that they

resurrected on New Caprica.

216

:

And this, uh, and we're gonna talk about

it, but like the format of this episode

217

:

is we are flashing back to Ellen during

the events of the show, and we even get

218

:

the bit where the resurrection hub is

destroyed and he's like, "What the fuck?

219

:

What do we do now?

220

:

I had a whole plan.

221

:

I had a plan."

222

:

Laura: Yeah, I had a plan, uh-huh.

223

:

Xhafer: Uh, Uh-huh.

224

:

Laura: great at that.

225

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm

226

:

Xhafer: And then we cut back between

these things in the present day.

227

:

The present day.

228

:

Uh, As Anders is in surgery

he rambles with flashes.

229

:

Laura: Yeah, he…

230

:

Xhafer: must have him clamped into a clip

show device here or something because

231

:

he's just kind of all over the place.

232

:

Ryan: He's bald now?

233

:

Laura: babble, yeah.

234

:

Ryan: Hmm

235

:

Xhafer: Yes.

236

:

He sees all kinds of stuff,

but when the drilling starts to

237

:

relieve cranial pressure, he talks

about Ellen joining them on the

238

:

beach because she loved the water

239

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

240

:

And she was the most important of us.

241

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

242

:

Ryan: And Kara's just like, "Huh?"

243

:

Laura: But he's like, "What?"

244

:

Ryan: What?

245

:

Laura: that dinner party

and it was terrible.

246

:

Ryan: She, like Cara's just looking

at Sam and his, and she's like, "Did

247

:

you two even have scenes together?

248

:

I don't think so."

249

:

Laura: I don't know why

I wrote this in my notes.

250

:

I don't know what the exact words were

that were said, but I said, "He seems

251

:

to be thinking about C- Cavill, and

he deceived the mother of mankind."

252

:

And I

253

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

254

:

Laura: "Mer?"

255

:

No, I don't know what I meant, but

256

:

Ryan: Well, yeah, he, he has like all

these jargon phrases and I guess that

257

:

kinda ties into, you know, what Cavill's

deal is in this episode, just like fucking

258

:

over the original five because he's upset

about his creators and what they've done

259

:

Laura: Yes.

260

:

Mm-hmm.

261

:

We go back to 18 months ago

262

:

Xhafer: Uh, We find out

Cavill's first name is John

263

:

Laura: Yeah, John.

264

:

And

265

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

266

:

Laura: persists in calling him John

throughout, even though he hates that.

267

:

Ryan: Yeah.

268

:

She's deadnaming him, yeah

269

:

Xhafer: modeled after

Ellen's father, we learn

270

:

Laura: Oh yeah, we

271

:

Ryan: Which makes it extra psychosexual

and fucked, their relationship.

272

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

273

:

Ryan: Which they point out,

which they do point out.

274

:

He's like, "Thanks for that.

275

:

That makes it extra fucking

weird that I'm your son."

276

:

Laura: I mean, he's

also the one who like…

277

:

Ryan: Taught her the swirl?

278

:

Laura: Sorry?

279

:

Ryan: Taught her the

swirl, his sex technique.

280

:

They reference that in this episode too.

281

:

Laura: Oh, man, I

282

:

Ryan: Yeah

283

:

Laura: not remember that.

284

:

I had blocked that out.

285

:

Ryan: it in this episode how weird

it is, everything about what she is

286

:

and who he is and everything like

that, and who the final five are.

287

:

And it'll be even weirder when we get

to Saul and Six later because it's like,

288

:

"Hmm, you're also father/daughter, huh?

289

:

That's weird."

290

:

It's all weird

291

:

Laura: Um,

292

:

Well, I mean, I, he, he not just taught

her the swirl, but he, like, had the

293

:

power in that and forced her into that,

294

:

Ryan: Yeah, and as, as we learn in

this episode, he's the one who knew all

295

:

along who they were, and so him taking

sexual advantage of her or letting

296

:

herself debase herself is even extra

gross than it already was in Season 3

297

:

Xhafer: Yeah, shout out to everyone

in spoiler town who caught on

298

:

to me calling him a motherfucker

during those episodes on purpose.

299

:

Laura: That was a safe one.

300

:

Yeah, that

301

:

Xhafer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

302

:

Yeah, that was pretty safe, yeah.

303

:

Laura: Man.

304

:

I just-- I'm still grappling with this.

305

:

Ryan: It's big, it's, it's

a mind fuck of an episode

306

:

Laura: And we find out somewhere along

these lines that he was the first one

307

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

308

:

Laura: Is that

309

:

Xhafer: Yes.

310

:

Ryan: Yeah.

311

:

Laura: Is…

312

:

But he, that's not his

model number, right?

313

:

Ryan: It is.

314

:

Xhafer: one.

315

:

Ryan: He's one

316

:

Xhafer: one.

317

:

Laura: he's one?

318

:

Okay.

319

:

I

320

:

Xhafer: Yeah

321

:

Laura: realize.

322

:

he's the first one they made.

323

:

So I guess, did they just, like, slap

some stuff together and not realize

324

:

they threw Oedipus complex in there?

325

:

Like, what?

326

:

Ryan: It's a great analogy, isn't it,

of, of parenthood and relationships

327

:

with children, like that ongoing

thing of like, oh, when you're a

328

:

parent, your first child, you, you're

kind of muddling your way through.

329

:

You don't know what you're doing.

330

:

And then with the other children

you do, and uh-oh, are we playing

331

:

favorites with our children?

332

:

How does that make the others feel?

333

:

Oh, it gets all complicated and messy.

334

:

And then you add the sci-fi nature of

this very story where it's like we are

335

:

literally manufacturing our children.

336

:

It's, it's, it's fun.

337

:

Like, it's an interesting thing.

338

:

And I like with Cavill having

this because he has always been

339

:

the most jaded of the Cylons.

340

:

He's always been the most pointed.

341

:

He's always had the closest to an

actual ideology that you could follow.

342

:

Like, the rest of them have always been

like, "God tells me we should do this."

343

:

And he's like, "No, no, no.

344

:

Mm-mm.

345

:

I think we need to talk about

real things like justice."

346

:

Laura: Yeah.

347

:

have one question that I'm not sure if

this episode answered or if it's coming.

348

:

do all the Cavills know her,

or is it this one Cavill?

349

:

Hmm.

350

:

Ryan: don't know.

351

:

I think it's always hard because

you have to try and keep track of

352

:

which one is which at any time.

353

:

Like, if this is the Cavil that was on New

Caprica that, that he w- that was having

354

:

sex with Ellen, that means he is the

same Cavil that got shot up in the coup

355

:

that they h- like, you know what I mean?

356

:

You have to try and keep track, and

they do make a point of, like, the

357

:

first Cavil we met did get killed on,

on Battlestar, and then there was the

358

:

one that they found on the planet.

359

:

So it's like there are multiple

Cavils we've met, and it's kind of

360

:

hard to keep track of is this the

same one because unlike with Six,

361

:

they don't give him different names

362

:

Laura: Yeah.

363

:

'Cause

364

:

Xhafer: one to tell apart,

except for I guess maybe Simon.

365

:

Ryan: No, they don't bother.

366

:

Xhafer: ever get an individual Simon.

367

:

Ryan: Yeah, and like with Leoben, it

always feels like it's the same Leoben

368

:

no matter which case it is, even

though I feel like sometimes that's

369

:

not true, but it's just the way he

plays it, it feels like it's supposed

370

:

to be like the continuous one from

the one we met from the miniseries

371

:

all the way to now is the same one

372

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm

373

:

Laura: you told me the Leobens had,

like, a weird app that was, like,

374

:

just Leoben stuff where they keep

each other updated on all things at

375

:

all times, I would, I would buy it.

376

:

Xhafer: Yeah

377

:

Laura: they gotta compare notes on

their little weird prophecies and shit.

378

:

Like,

379

:

Ryan: Mm.

380

:

Laura: I believe it.

381

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

382

:

Laura: I was confused.

383

:

I was like, "Oh man, if all the Cavills

know this, this is extra gross."

384

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

385

:

Laura: one Cavill, I guess,

didn't know Ellen was mom,

386

:

then that is Oedipus, isn't it?

387

:

That's the story.

388

:

Ryan: Yeah.

389

:

He know, I mean, he knows.

390

:

And ag- again, he's one, and he's

already created a hierarchy within

391

:

the Cylons by being the one who knows

everything and choosing to fuck with

392

:

the memories and knowledge of the

Final Five and the other Cylons.

393

:

He's like a very com-

like domineering presence.

394

:

He does have the I'm the eldest,

so I should know better than you

395

:

Laura: Uh-huh.

396

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

397

:

Ellen is disappointed in John's

lack of growth as he is in hers.

398

:

she tells him that it's cold and he

offers to get her some clothes because…

399

:

over on Galactica, Tyrol shows

Adama the hull fracture, and Adama

400

:

asks him to take his job back and

to be the chief again to fix it

401

:

Laura: Cause Figurski was fucking it up

in those deleted scenes you told me about,

402

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

403

:

Laura: then Laird got

got with the wrench, so

404

:

Ryan: They didn't have

any other engineers.

405

:

They have a fucking brain specialist,

but they have no more than two engineers.

406

:

Yeah.

407

:

Xhafer: Yeah

408

:

Ryan: so we have to have the fo-

they have to have the Cylon join in.

409

:

I love the acting between

these two in this scene.

410

:

It's this very uncomfortable,

like, "You don't want me.

411

:

I'm a Cylon."

412

:

And then just turning around and

being like, "Hey, my XO's a Cylon."

413

:

You know, just like handshake

like, "Hey, I'm, you know, my

414

:

bre- my best friend's a minority.

415

:

You can be in my team, too."

416

:

Laura: Yeah.

417

:

Yeah, it's got that energy.

418

:

Ryan: This whole episode's got that energy

419

:

Xhafer: Over in med bay, Sam wakes up.

420

:

He asks Kara to gather

the Fuck Around Four.

421

:

He sees everything from their past

and needs to tell them to theme

422

:

Ryan: Yeah

423

:

Laura: Yeah.

424

:

Way to, way to, like, put a

cliffhanger on it a little bit, Anders.

425

:

Jesus.

426

:

Ryan: Oh, Anders

427

:

Laura: too, but uh, had

to be reminded she's dead.

428

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

429

:

Laura: the look on his face to

me said he knew she wasn't dead.

430

:

Like,

431

:

Ryan: Yeah, I believe that too.

432

:

Laura: here.

433

:

Ryan: Yeah.

434

:

He's all over the place.

435

:

No, I mean, the Anders

stuff is interesting.

436

:

I mean, I think that actor's

really good in this episode.

437

:

I mean, we, we, we, we get a lot

of him just giving exposition.

438

:

It's very difficult.

439

:

Like, the storyline is good if you're like

Laura and you want to know information.

440

:

But in terms of, like, actually

being a plot, it's not that good.

441

:

But he is a very good actor, and they

give him all of the lines to ramble

442

:

off, and he's very natural in this.

443

:

I can't remember if…

444

:

I don't know if you've talked about

this, but I think if I remember the

445

:

timeline right, a part of the reason

that they have him like this is because

446

:

the actor in real life had, like,

a horrific car crash and got, like,

447

:

Laura: that

448

:

Ryan: part- And he got

uh, yeah, and he got…

449

:

Thankfully, he recovered, but he

basically had the same injuries

450

:

as Christopher Reeves did and

almost was completely paralyzed.

451

:

And he did recover.

452

:

He, he ended up being fine.

453

:

But that was during the writers'

strike part of the show,

454

:

and so they had to kind of

455

:

Laura: Oh, no.

456

:

Ryan: write in how they can deal with him.

457

:

And he's like, "Oh, I have this

huge scar on the back of my

458

:

neck," and they'll work that in.

459

:

And so this episode is like,

"Let's drill into the back of his

460

:

head and give him that thing."

461

:

So thankfully, he, you know, he's,

he's still, he's all right and he's

462

:

still acting, he's still around.

463

:

But it's just like this is how weird

stuff in real life gets woven into

464

:

the production of the show and kind of

benefits 'cause you're already making

465

:

the comparisons as like, oh, he's

kind of like acting like a hybrid.

466

:

He's acting all weird and crazy

and saying all this nonsense.

467

:

And it pans out.

468

:

Like, it really works

in this episode's favor.

469

:

Like, yeah, you're getting a lot of

information, but it's delivered in

470

:

a fun way that you just keep wanting

to be like, "Oh, you know what?

471

:

I actually do wanna hear from Sam."

472

:

Laura: Mm-hmm.

473

:

Xhafer: I remember really disliking

his storyline in this back half

474

:

of this, this last, like, 10

episodes and the initial air.

475

:

will say everything that's

happening feels more natural this

476

:

time, knowing where it's heading.

477

:

especially this episode being the

turning point for the character really

478

:

Ryan: I have to admit that my

initial watch of the show, Anders

479

:

and Helo were my-- and Lee, Lee

more so, but Ander- Anders and Helo

480

:

were just boring characters to me.

481

:

I didn't care about them at all.

482

:

They were just two buff white guys

that-- or buff handsome guys, I

483

:

should say, and they were just there.

484

:

But I've actually really,

on rewatches, I love Anders.

485

:

I think he's such an interesting,

complex character, and I think him

486

:

and Kara's fucked up relationship is

actually one of the most compelling

487

:

in the show, and it feels very

real but also very uncomfortable.

488

:

And I think in this episode where

we're playing around with them again

489

:

of, like, her being like, "I wanna

reconnect with you," but he's literally

490

:

not connected to reality anymore.

491

:

Like, he is lost in the past.

492

:

It's sci-fi-wise compelling but I

think just emotionally engaging and

493

:

I-- yeah, I must admit, like, in the

past I've, I've spoke ill of Anders,

494

:

but on my most recent rewatches

of it, he's, he's in my top five.

495

:

I think he's great

496

:

Xhafer: It's, it is exactly that

dynamic too, because she spent

497

:

so much of their relationship

being em- emotionally unavailable,

498

:

Laura: Mm-hmm.

499

:

Yeah, shout out

500

:

Ryan: Thank you.

501

:

Laura: Smoke

502

:

Ryan: Thank you.

503

:

I just dr- took a big drink

from my, a lovely mug, yeah

504

:

Xhafer: Available at our merch

store that we never fucking plug.

505

:

Um,

506

:

Ryan: But yeah, he's emotionally

unavailable now when he's always

507

:

been emotionally available.

508

:

Like, Anders is- he's like the guy in-

he's like the only guy in the show outside

509

:

of Gator who's emotionally vulnerable.

510

:

Like, on the surface he's much more…

511

:

And not in a, "I get angry," kind of

vulnerab- vulnerable way that we get

512

:

from a lot of the men in this show.

513

:

Like, he is an emotionally

complex character.

514

:

He's gone through a lot.

515

:

And also, other than Ellen, I think

the final five reveal, he's the most

516

:

interesting to think about when you

think they were Cylon the whole time.

517

:

And he's like one of the characters

who's had like the most like

518

:

complex, like intricate unknowing

feelings about being a Cylon.

519

:

And then in this episode we see

Ellen is fun to watch because she's a

520

:

completely different personality and

when you think of her on a rewatch or

521

:

in retrospect you're like her being a

Cylon actually makes her character a

522

:

lot more nuanced and there's a lot more

shades to her while the other final

523

:

five it's kind of like, okay, sure, Tory

524

:

Laura: story.

525

:

Yeah, I'm like,

526

:

Xhafer: Tory.

527

:

Ryan: The chief, I guess.

528

:

Fine, I guess.

529

:

The chief is one.

530

:

Sure.

531

:

Like, they were lovers in the past.

532

:

Okay.

533

:

Like,

534

:

Xhafer: Sure.

535

:

Ryan: As we get in this episode

536

:

Xhafer: Um, speaking of Gaeta, since

537

:

Laura: Oh,

538

:

Xhafer: the,

539

:

Laura: Mm-hmm

540

:

Xhafer: if you wanted to, the mut- we,

you know, we wrapped the mutiny arc

541

:

Ryan: Hmm.

542

:

Xhafer: episode.

543

:

Did, did you wanna talk about that at all

while you're here and we're hanging out?

544

:

Ryan: For me?

545

:

Xhafer: Yeah, just like what are

your thoughts on the mutiny arc?

546

:

Ryan: I love it as a conclusion to Gaeta.

547

:

I think it works because his character

was so staunchly idealistic and

548

:

stuck to his convictions and was

routinely met with disappointment.

549

:

He was the guy that stood up against

Gaius Baltar during New Caprica, but did

550

:

it within the rules, within the system,

but still risked himself, and he was

551

:

rewa- rewarded with nearly being killed.

552

:

And so continuously that's been his

character, so I think his ending works.

553

:

I love that the actor's point of view was

somebody in the show had to pay for the

554

:

sins of humanity and it was Gaeta, and I

think that's a really apt point of view.

555

:

I get more pissed off about the Zarek

part of it, um, than anything else.

556

:

But,

557

:

Laura: Okay.

558

:

Ryan: I think it's just, I think

it's just in the show they…

559

:

Their problem with side

characters is they must remain

560

:

the archetype we created for them.

561

:

So like, Callie was the bitch wife.

562

:

Laura: Oh,

563

:

Ryan: what she was.

564

:

That's what she ended up being.

565

:

You know, like they could have

had more perspective with her.

566

:

And you know, Laird for instance,

what an interesting character he could

567

:

have been, but they didn't use him.

568

:

He was just the victim engineer who

highlighted that the bad guys were bad.

569

:

And Zarek was, could have been a much

more nuanced political character, but

570

:

they wrote it as he was a terrorist

and it always was he was a terrorist.

571

:

Like, no matter what, even though

like he said a lot of things that

572

:

made sense and for most of the show he

didn't actually do as much villainous

573

:

stuff as the characters said he was,

at the end of the day the writers were

574

:

like, "He was a terrorist though."

575

:

And I think that's the weakness of

Battlestar for me in a major way is side

576

:

characters must remain the archetype

that they said they were from the very

577

:

beginning and the main characters can

have the growth and the main characters

578

:

can challenge each other ideologically

or philosophically, but side characters

579

:

can never truly challenge the main

characters and make a difference.

580

:

It-- If anything it's like

they just validate the main

581

:

character's point of view.

582

:

So Roslin in the show has been challenged

as being a fascist, but it's only proven

583

:

to be a valid point when Lee says it.

584

:

But when Zarek said it…

585

:

No, that's unfair.

586

:

Laura: Mm-hmm

587

:

Ryan: that when Zarek says, "Why are

we forcing an economy based system on

588

:

people that have no m- means of money?"

589

:

Roslin's saying, "Ah, what an asshole."

590

:

We're supposed to side with that.

591

:

But when Lee says it we're

like, "You know what?

592

:

Lee's right.

593

:

He has a point."

594

:

That's what I get annoyed about.

595

:

So with Gaeta I think it works

well but with Zarek I get

596

:

kind of pissed off about it.

597

:

Xhafer: I mean, Zerek, I don't think

American television was ready for a

598

:

redeemed terrorist character in 2007.

599

:

Ryan: Nor now

600

:

Laura: man.

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

Xhafer: nor now.

603

:

There was probably a brief period

in, like,:

604

:

When did Homeland air?

605

:

I didn't watch that show.

606

:

Anyways I assume it happens there.

607

:

It seems like the kind of

show it would happen in.

608

:

so yeah, I don't just--

You're right, though.

609

:

It is like he had to revert almost

because the Zerek that we saw

610

:

last before this I don't think

necessarily would've done these things

611

:

Ryan: The, yeah, the Zarek who,

who would rather be put up in

612

:

jail than serve on New Caprica?

613

:

Yeah

614

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

615

:

Laura: I'm thinking about that Zarek.

616

:

I'm thinking about Zarek that stood

there with Rosalyn kinda knowing

617

:

they were about to be to the

death camp or shot or something.

618

:

Like, they, they knew.

619

:

And I wanted that Zarek to,

like, keep growing, but they

620

:

were like, "Ha ha, nope."

621

:

Ryan: Yeah, he, he

622

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm

623

:

Ryan: he may as well signed his death

warrant when he sided with the union.

624

:

Like, this, this show is like, nope, nope.

625

:

Also, I love Bayar McCreary, but Bayar

McCreary was always in every scene

626

:

with Zarek being like, "Villain."

627

:

Zarek would say, "We should

have some form of democracy."

628

:

Evil music plays, and he rubs

his hands together and laughs.

629

:

And it's like, he didn't

say anything evil.

630

:

Xhafer: No.

631

:

No, he didn't.

632

:

All right, so we hit theme survivor

count, the aforementioned 39,556.

633

:

This is down 47 last count.

634

:

We know 11 of this is the

members of quorum that died.

635

:

Felix, Tom, Zarek are in here, and

then a handful of mutineers as well

636

:

Ryan: Do they change the number to

account for Ellen existing again?

637

:

Laura: Well, she's not human.

638

:

Ryan: Oh, and she's not on the c-

well, okay, if they're not human,

639

:

then take Chief off the list.

640

:

Take Tory off the list.

641

:

Xhafer: did take the Final

Four off the list when they

642

:

Ryan: Did they?

643

:

Fuck.

644

:

I forgot.

645

:

Xhafer: think so

646

:

Ryan: Okay.

647

:

Laura: I, I

648

:

Ryan: they c-

649

:

Laura: been meticulously tracking that,

650

:

Ryan: okay, so

651

:

Xhafer: other…

652

:

So sometimes there's like stuff where

it's all like the final four are revealed,

653

:

but also there's a big space battle in

between then and showing us the next

654

:

Ryan: Yeah.

655

:

Xhafer: So

656

:

Ryan: so is, is the baby,

is the baby counted as half?

657

:

Xhafer: The baby doesn't count

until it's born per Hera rules.

658

:

Ryan: but it's half a human,

so does it count as half?

659

:

Xhafer: Hera counted.

660

:

Ryan: Okay.

661

:

Xhafer: They can Hera,

Hera count it as one

662

:

Ryan: Okay

663

:

Laura: Yeah.

664

:

Xhafer: Can you imagine if there was a .5

665

:

on that for 30 episodes?

666

:

Ryan: Yeah.

667

:

I've…

668

:

Laura: nerds would go crazy,

669

:

Ryan: I thought it was very brave of

Season 4 to start including in the opening

670

:

credits the cat survivor count, and

it went down one when we revealed that

671

:

Romo's cat didn't make it after Season 3.

672

:

I thought it was very brave that they

included that in the opening credits

673

:

And a little meow sound in the soundtrack

for when the number is revealed

674

:

Laura: We didn't call it out, but in

the episode, last episode, he did like,

675

:

"I hope somebody's watching my dog."

676

:

Like

677

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

678

:

Ryan: He's a dog man now

679

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm

680

:

Laura: He's a dog man now.

681

:

I don't know that it's actually

that easy to flip your animal type,

682

:

but I guess if they're the only

ones that are left, maybe you do.

683

:

Ryan: he just throws a dog treat and,

and Helo goes and runs after it, yeah

684

:

Laura: The human Labrador, yeah

685

:

Xhafer: when we come back from

theme, we're on the Base Star.

686

:

It is one year ago, but six months

after New Caprica, and Ellen

687

:

and Cavil are talking again.

688

:

He says that he had not

expected, quote, "The mortal

689

:

experiment to have virtually no

690

:

Ryan: Yeah.

691

:

Just you became a human

and nothing changed, huh?

692

:

You were still like a messy bitch.

693

:

Xhafer: Rude as fuck.

694

:

Ryan: Which we know is not true

when we watch this episode.

695

:

Like,

696

:

Xhafer: yeah

697

:

Ryan: he's just being a mean prick

about it, and I love that for him

698

:

Laura: He's, he's so infuriating, not just

because of the, these little things, but

699

:

he just, like, misses the point so much.

700

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

701

:

Laura: he talks about in this

scene, he's, he's mad about sleep.

702

:

"Sleep

703

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

704

:

Laura: I can't believe you gave us sleep."

705

:

And I'm sitting here thinking about the

time my nurse friend was explaining to

706

:

me that there's, like, brain process that

happens in sleep where toxins are cleared

707

:

Ryan: Yeah, but he's a machine.

708

:

He's a machine.

709

:

Like,

710

:

Laura: I know he…

711

:

Ryan: this is, this, this is why I love

Cavill so much, because he articulates

712

:

the inherent flaw of Battlestar Galactica,

which was the initial setup is the

713

:

machines rise up against us, and then

the rest of the show is like, "Ah, no,

714

:

let's make the machines more human."

715

:

And it's like, why is being

more human better somehow?

716

:

Because we are humans, and

we decree that it's better.

717

:

Because we decree, "Oh, when you

get sleep, your brain does this."

718

:

He's a machine, and he's

saying, "I'm a machine

719

:

Laura: a really meaty machine though.

720

:

Ryan: Yeah, and he resents it.

721

:

Laura: has to do,

722

:

Ryan: resents it.

723

:

He's like, "Why did you make me flawed

in this way when I could be better?"

724

:

Like, that's his entire argument

throughout this episode,

725

:

and I agree to an extent

726

:

Xhafer: just like, "Oh, it's a shame my

body has these problems like antacid.

727

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm

728

:

Xhafer: fucking I need

to take fucking Tums.

729

:

It's a shame I'm not made

of, I don't know, metal."

730

:

Ryan: Also, also thank you for making

me look like your father and making

731

:

me the eldest of the Cylons here.

732

:

Like, I'm born old.

733

:

Like, I get a fucked

body from the beginning.

734

:

Like, that's also something

that he brings up is like, "Oh,

735

:

thank you for that, by the way."

736

:

Like, "Oh, it's just

my w- fucked up heart.

737

:

Thank you for that inheritance."

738

:

Like, you want us to be these perfect

machines and then you've trapped us in

739

:

these meat suits because you think being a

human is perfect because you believe that

740

:

because you are one and you have a god.

741

:

Your god decrees that we should

be made in their image, which is

742

:

your image, and I'm a machine.

743

:

I'm a robot

744

:

Laura: I, I mean, I think

that's it, isn't it?

745

:

Is that, you know, they came from the

13th tribe that saw themselves as perfect

746

:

whatevers of this tribe, and when we're

trying to make these other Cylons to help

747

:

out the BattleBots, we're like, "Well,

let's make them the, a version of us."

748

:

But it seems like we are trying to make

it a slightly limited version of us

749

:

'cause that's, that's perfect, and then

it turns out actually it's really not.

750

:

Ryan: No.

751

:

Xhafer: Yeah

752

:

Ryan: We live in an age nowadays

in which we have to contend with AI

753

:

being a part of our everyday life.

754

:

It's becoming more and more prevalent,

and the part of the discourse of that

755

:

too is, and this is always in science

fiction as well, but, like, when we

756

:

start to merge robotics, cybernetics,

AI, all of that stuff, and making

757

:

it more indiscernible from humans.

758

:

And it's often told in narratives

like this that that's a bad thing.

759

:

Like, we shouldn't merge that

line or there's a danger there.

760

:

I mean, Blade Runner is often the

go-to example in which we have these

761

:

robot characters that are basically

humans and they're a subclass.

762

:

And Cavill's arguing that.

763

:

He's like, "Great, thank you for

making me not only in this meat suit

764

:

body, but, like, what's my purpose?

765

:

My purpose is to make you

happy that you created this.

766

:

I have no ability to grow.

767

:

I have no ability to

experience new things."

768

:

And her argument is, "Well, I

gave you a brain that can give you

769

:

imagination and create things."

770

:

And he's like, "Well, when

I do that, you get upset."

771

:

' Cause I'm thinking like a robot, but

I'm thinking in a creative way like

772

:

a robot, and that's foreign to you

773

:

Laura: Yeah, this is very parent-child.

774

:

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

775

:

Xhafer: Tells the rest of the

four that they were scientists

776

:

who rediscovered resurrection.

777

:

Tyrrell and Tori were a

thing, we get that here.

778

:

And then Ellen was the one who

figured out the last puzzle piece

779

:

Laura: Mm-hmm.

780

:

Xhafer: the re- of the

resurrection problem

781

:

Ryan: She was the most

brilliant of us as well.

782

:

Like, they really emphasize, like,

not only did she figure it out, she

783

:

was actually the smartest one of us.

784

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

785

:

Laura: this, this is the, the

writers' room going, "Double middles

786

:

to everybody who hated Ellen."

787

:

Ryan: Yeah.

788

:

I, I love, I love that they stuck it

to the audience with just like, "We're

789

:

doubling down on Ellen's not only

the final one, she's the best one."

790

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

791

:

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

792

:

they rediscovered resurrection.

793

:

Yeah.

794

:

So it seems like they had

resurrection when they left

795

:

Kobol, and they did that perhaps.

796

:

But then when they get to Earth, that

evolves out and we reproduce, maybe

797

:

Ryan: Maybe.

798

:

There's a lot of weird tech stuff in this.

799

:

Like, they have the ability to, like,

create all of this magnificent machinery.

800

:

They rediscovered this previous

technology, but they don't have, like,

801

:

warp travel or, like, light speed travel.

802

:

They only have, like, normal, so it

took these five, like, thousands of

803

:

years to get to where we are, or,

like, where the main characters were.

804

:

So it's, like…

805

:

Laura: That's what they told us, yeah

806

:

Ryan: So it's, like, weird technical,

stuff muddled in, in this episode.

807

:

Like, "Oh, we had this,

but we don't have that."

808

:

And it's like, I feel like you would

have the other before you would have this

809

:

Laura: Mm-hmm.

810

:

Yeah.

811

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

812

:

Well, yeah

813

:

Laura: But we keep having to,

like, stop Anders because Doc

814

:

Cottle is worried about him,

815

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

816

:

Ryan: Yeah

817

:

Xhafer: like, "He needs to rest.

818

:

Get the fuck out of here."

819

:

As he lights a cigarette in front

of another pregnant lady probably.

820

:

Ryan: See, Doc Cottle's an example

of, like, he, he's a side character

821

:

that's, like, the archetype and

it never changes, but it's great.

822

:

Like, he's just a surly Do- he's Bones.

823

:

He's Bones McCoy.

824

:

Laura: Doc Toddle.

825

:

Never change.

826

:

Xhafer: Rosalyn and Lee

head over to Colonial One in

827

:

the room where it happened.

828

:

Laura: Yeah.

829

:

We've, we've, like, removed

the bodies, but we haven't

830

:

cleaned this room up at all.

831

:

Ryan: holes everywhere, yeah

832

:

Laura: yeah

833

:

Xhafer: yeah, this is clearly damage

from massacre at Quorum 12 here.

834

:

Rosalyn is finding photos for the

remembrance wall, Lee discusses what's

835

:

next, and Rosalyn's like, "Hey, that's

a good idea, so you should just go

836

:

ahead and build a government now."

837

:

Because she decides that she's

done being president and puts her

838

:

boyfriend's son in charge instead

839

:

Ryan: Oh, Lee, Lee, Lee says

his suggestion is we should

840

:

become a commonwealth now.

841

:

That's his suggestion.

842

:

He's like, "Hey, by the

way, why are we all…"

843

:

And no joke, Zarek said this exact

thing in season one, and it was

844

:

treated villainously when he said it.

845

:

He's like, "Why are we still

operating on the old planets?

846

:

They don't exist anymore.

847

:

We should probably make it that

each ship is their own thing

848

:

and work as a collective."

849

:

And it's like, "No, shut up.

850

:

That's a stupid idea."

851

:

And then when Lee bravely says it, you

know, it's like, oh, a tear rolls down--

852

:

A tear almost rolls down Roslin's face as

the American National Anthem plays, and we

853

:

all, like, put our hands on our hearts and

go, "What a brilliant politician Lee is."

854

:

I just like that Lee, he's like-- I wish,

you know, honestly, I wish that Battlestar

855

:

went for more seasons so we could have

seen Lee get a new career in each season.

856

:

Lee the plumber, what would

that have looked like?

857

:

Laura: Ugh.

858

:

Ryan: Lee the mortician, what

would that have looked like?

859

:

Each season he gets a new career.

860

:

Remember when he was

just, like, a, a pilot?

861

:

He became a lawyer, and then he

became the fucking president.

862

:

Laura: Yes.

863

:

Mm-hmm

864

:

Ryan: bang on about, like, "I don't like

it when people get power undeservedly.

865

:

Now talk to my dad."

866

:

Laura: Uh-huh.

867

:

Mm-hmm

868

:

Xhafer: Yeah, I'm sure glad I don't live

in a country with that kind of nepotism

869

:

where, you know, family members would just

get government contracts or, you know.

870

:

I'm glad we live in a strong democracy

871

:

Ryan: Oh, did you love how this

scene, oh, did you love how this

872

:

scene ended with hanging a lampshade

on Lee's inconsistent character arc?

873

:

Where he, she-- I think it's this back

and forth where it's just like, you

874

:

know, "Lee, you're always doing the

right thing, but never the smart thing."

875

:

And then he's like, "Well, okay, I'll

do the smarter thing the wronger way."

876

:

And we all have a little chuckle,

and we all go, "Oh, that's our Lee."

877

:

Nice little lampshade to be like, "Yeah,

Lee's, Lee's an annoying character.

878

:

That's his problem."

879

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

880

:

Ryan: Are we gonna change

it in the next few episodes?

881

:

Maybe, but at least we're

saying it exists, so you don't

882

:

complain about it at home.

883

:

We know it exists, and we

haven't done anything about it.

884

:

Xhafer: We uh, see Terl finding more

extensive damage that he shows Adama.

885

:

He says the ship can't jump for

a while, and Adama requests that

886

:

a human crew be the one to repair

it, which is kind of fucking rude

887

:

Laura: I mean, yes, but also we

just co- came off the mutiny, right?

888

:

I could see him being

worried about perception

889

:

Ryan: Yeah

890

:

Laura: amongst the crew who's

already been kind of flippy-floppy.

891

:

Ryan: Mm.

892

:

But it is that thing of Adama has always

when he encounters a Cylon and he knows

893

:

they're a Cylon and but they're -- he

knew them as a person, his acceptance of

894

:

them is almost like he forget -- like he

just disregards them being a Cylon, like

895

:

with Sharon, with Ty, with Tyrol now.

896

:

So he can unironically

say to him, "No Cylons."

897

:

And it's like you can kinda feel in

the moment he's not a, he's not really

898

:

aware that he's saying this to a Cylon,

even though he factually knows that.

899

:

I think just his attitude is

always just like, "Well, they're

900

:

my friend, so they're like me.

901

:

They're human.

902

:

You know, they're -- sure, they're a

Cylon, but like they're me, so it's fine.

903

:

But other Cylons, they're,

they're, they're the enemy.

904

:

They're the other that we

still have to worry about."

905

:

Xhafer: Back in MedLab, Anders tells us

that they left Earth to warn the colonies

906

:

and try to break the cycle of violence,

but they were too late because when

907

:

they arrived, they had already built the

Cylons and they had already revolted.

908

:

He says the trip took thousands of years

due to them having to travel at sub-light

909

:

speeds and relativity changed the flow of

time for them compared to everyone else.

910

:

So they don't have FTL.

911

:

don't-- They can't jump.

912

:

Laura: I wonder, is it that their

society didn't have FTL or, like,

913

:

us five people could only get

our hands on a sublight ship,

914

:

Ryan: Yeah, we, we fucked off before

everything blew up, and we had

915

:

just the resurrection stuff, and

we just said, "Ship, go that way."

916

:

Xhafer: Yeah

917

:

Laura: I, I don't think it's clear

that like, oh, society didn't have FTL.

918

:

It's like, well, we

919

:

Xhafer: I mean, it might not

be a priority if you don't age.

920

:

Ryan: Yeah, but, well

921

:

Xhafer: Like, as a society,

you might not care.

922

:

Ryan: Oh, do you take it that

the society was like that?

923

:

I took it at, like,

these five figured out…

924

:

But I took it as, like, these special

five scientists have cracked this code.

925

:

Uh-oh, everything's about to go tits up.

926

:

Let's upload ourselves into

this ship that's already waiting

927

:

and fuck off to save the rest

of civilization out in space.

928

:

I got, I didn't feel like the rest of

society had the ability to resurrect.

929

:

I think they were just normal people

930

:

Xhafer: ability to res- no,

they're, I don't think the rest of

931

:

the ability, the rest of society

had the ability of, to resurrect,

932

:

Ryan: Hmm

933

:

Xhafer: but that doesn't

mean that they age

934

:

Ryan: Yeah, were the rest of

society Cylon robot people?

935

:

Laura: Yeah,

936

:

Xhafer: Is S- do Cylon

937

:

Ryan: Yeah.

938

:

Xhafer: people

939

:

Ryan: Okay.

940

:

Okay.

941

:

Yeah, yeah.

942

:

Xhafer: is the question.

943

:

Ryan: Yeah.

944

:

Okay

945

:

Xhafer: I don't think they do

946

:

Laura: yeah, not clear, I guess.

947

:

Is, is a Cavil just gonna be 60-something

948

:

Ryan: they must be able to

change their ages because when

949

:

Ty, when both Ellen and Ty were

950

:

Laura: But

951

:

Ryan: sup- supplemented into the society

on Caprica and whatnot, they were young.

952

:

Like, Bill knew them when they were young.

953

:

So they must have the ability to r-

954

:

Xhafer: But that could have

been a function of those

955

:

bodies that Cavill had made for

956

:

Ryan: Does that mean Cavill currently

just makes sure that they upload

957

:

into their current aged bodies?

958

:

Laura: Why doesn't Cavill

make himself younger then?

959

:

Ryan: Oh, he's spiteful.

960

:

Laura: younger bodies,

961

:

Ryan: these are the things you ask.

962

:

Yeah

963

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

964

:

We've dug too

965

:

Ryan: And the answer is,

Laura, don't think about it.

966

:

Don't think about it.

967

:

Don't think about why there's a 13th one.

968

:

We'll get there, but let's

not, let's not think too hard.

969

:

Xhafer: well, we're there right

970

:

Ryan: Oh, good

971

:

Xhafer: casually drops there's

a 13th secret Cylon in the

972

:

chat before having a seizure.

973

:

Ryan: Named Daniel

974

:

Laura: I

975

:

Xhafer: Named Daniel

976

:

Laura: point out not only did I call

Super Secret 13th Cylon, I also called

977

:

that, like, particular Cylons showed

up during the war and got it called

978

:

Ryan: Yeah

979

:

Laura: I

980

:

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

981

:

Ryan: How did you call that?

982

:

Xhafer: things

983

:

Ryan: made you believe

there was a 13th one?

984

:

Laura: The 13th tribe is,

is like my, that I was

985

:

Xhafer: The 12, the 12 and 13, yeah.

986

:

Laura: tribes, but we also had a

13th tribe, and I was like, "Then we

987

:

ha- definitely have a 13th Cylon."

988

:

Ryan: I love that.

989

:

I love that you thought about

it more than the writers did.

990

:

Love that for you.

991

:

Here's one of the reasons, I don't know

if you've talked about this, Jafer.

992

:

I love this reason.

993

:

They really wanted the final

five, like that number.

994

:

Ooh, final five.

995

:

Isn't that brilliant?

996

:

Five, and then we can reveal the final

five, like the final five in the number.

997

:

But we already revealed that we have

an eight, like the number eight for a

998

:

Cylon model, like we've established.

999

:

So if you reveal the final

five numbers, it goes to 13.

:

00:43:38,711 --> 00:43:41,281

So, oh shit, we've, we've

accidentally added one.

:

00:43:41,321 --> 00:43:45,741

We said there were 12, but if we said

they're the final five Cylons and

:

00:43:45,741 --> 00:43:50,021

they're the final five numbers after

eight, that doesn't add up to 12.

:

00:43:50,151 --> 00:43:51,451

So that's why there's a 13th.

:

00:43:52,371 --> 00:43:55,281

Not just because of the 13th tribe,

they just literally didn't do the maths

:

00:43:56,045 --> 00:43:59,325

Laura: I don't know if, if Jaferis

purposely obscured it from me, but

:

00:43:59,325 --> 00:44:02,485

we've talked a little bit about

like, "Oh, w- who's what number?"

:

00:44:02,865 --> 00:44:04,138

And, uh

:

00:44:04,869 --> 00:44:09,289

Xhafer: I have, I have actively

withheld Cavill being one and

:

00:44:09,289 --> 00:44:11,509

some of the other things there.

:

00:44:11,868 --> 00:44:14,638

Laura: You've, you've withheld a couple

of numbers from me, I think, to kind of

:

00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:16,849

Xhafer: but also we just don't know them

:

00:44:16,895 --> 00:44:17,725

Ryan: Yeah, we just don't know.

:

00:44:17,815 --> 00:44:19,155

They just don't say them a lot.

:

00:44:19,509 --> 00:44:20,009

Xhafer: Yeah

:

00:44:20,141 --> 00:44:21,651

Ryan: And if they do, it's like one time.

:

00:44:21,651 --> 00:44:26,901

Like one time you'll hear

like a Simon is a four

:

00:44:27,253 --> 00:44:27,883

Xhafer: Four.

:

00:44:27,993 --> 00:44:28,403

Yeah.

:

00:44:28,411 --> 00:44:30,331

Ryan: because Simon's barely in the show.

:

00:44:31,203 --> 00:44:31,663

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:44:31,731 --> 00:44:32,721

Ryan: Like why even have him?

:

00:44:33,671 --> 00:44:35,381

Like because you needed 12.

:

00:44:35,961 --> 00:44:37,041

It's a nice number.

:

00:44:37,531 --> 00:44:39,291

You know, 12 disciples, you know?

:

00:44:39,301 --> 00:44:40,481

Ooh, it's a nice number.

:

00:44:41,051 --> 00:44:43,581

But then when they actually had

to do the we have to fill them

:

00:44:43,581 --> 00:44:45,941

in, they're like, "Ah, fuck, we

actually don't really know…"

:

00:44:46,301 --> 00:44:49,781

Like Doral was an interesting character

in the first season, but we don't really

:

00:44:49,781 --> 00:44:52,441

know what to do with him, so let's

just not really have Doral around.

:

00:44:53,001 --> 00:44:54,041

Like, like fuck,

:

00:44:54,228 --> 00:44:54,418

Laura: Yeah

:

00:44:54,701 --> 00:44:56,981

Ryan: We got Lucy Lawless,

let's make her a Cylon.

:

00:44:57,041 --> 00:44:58,911

Like, you know, and then, then

they were like, "Ah, we kind of

:

00:44:58,911 --> 00:44:59,841

don't know what to do with her.

:

00:44:59,921 --> 00:45:00,671

I don't know, box her."

:

00:45:00,711 --> 00:45:03,181

Like that's unfortunately the thing

is like when you give yourself such

:

00:45:03,181 --> 00:45:06,451

a big number and you promise the

audience we're gonna reveal them,

:

00:45:06,451 --> 00:45:10,381

and the promise is some of the cast

will-- some of the cast you know will

:

00:45:10,381 --> 00:45:12,751

be Cylons, it really gets tricky.

:

00:45:12,891 --> 00:45:16,151

And then when you don't think the

numbers through and you then say,

:

00:45:16,251 --> 00:45:20,411

"I want my mystery box," 'cause this

is the era where Lost was a TV show,

:

00:45:21,181 --> 00:45:24,981

I want there to be, ooh, I want

the characters to say final five.

:

00:45:25,001 --> 00:45:27,921

I want Cavill to say the fabulous five.

:

00:45:27,991 --> 00:45:29,331

You know, like I want that.

:

00:45:29,721 --> 00:45:33,031

But you don't think through how

the maths of your numbers work.

:

00:45:33,031 --> 00:45:35,071

You then have to say, "Well,

there was a 13th one."

:

00:45:36,502 --> 00:45:36,522

Laura: Ugh.

:

00:45:36,713 --> 00:45:37,093

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:45:37,958 --> 00:45:40,528

Laura: I, I just, I felt like

it was gonna happen all along.

:

00:45:40,538 --> 00:45:43,898

I was like, "Of course there's

gonna be an extra one," you know?

:

00:45:44,018 --> 00:45:45,648

Especially because Ronald D.

:

00:45:45,648 --> 00:45:47,998

Moore said, "No, I gave

myself 12 to have a limit."

:

00:45:48,008 --> 00:45:49,598

And it's like, well, but you can plus one

:

00:45:49,757 --> 00:45:50,137

Ryan: Yeah.

:

00:45:50,168 --> 00:45:51,068

Laura: baker's dozen.

:

00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:57,319

Xhafer: We cut back to when the whole

Temple of the Five stuff was going on,

:

00:45:57,749 --> 00:46:03,599

and we learn that was not coincidence,

but Ellen's actions, that they had

:

00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:06,769

set this up for them on their way back

:

00:46:07,173 --> 00:46:07,853

Ryan: Kinda.

:

00:46:07,906 --> 00:46:08,106

Laura: Um

:

00:46:08,573 --> 00:46:11,583

Ryan: Like, that's what he posits,

and then she's like, "Well, I kinda

:

00:46:11,833 --> 00:46:13,353

did, but it wasn't meant to be.

:

00:46:13,363 --> 00:46:14,673

Like, things just kind of happened.

:

00:46:14,673 --> 00:46:16,683

It's God's will, actually.

:

00:46:16,723 --> 00:46:22,143

Um, so I- my face, my face and the

others appearing like that, that

:

00:46:22,143 --> 00:46:25,893

wasn't, like, on purpose, but kind

of, like, back routined into you,

:

00:46:25,893 --> 00:46:27,653

and God willed it for you to see.

:

00:46:27,673 --> 00:46:29,783

So you should believe in God."

:

00:46:30,023 --> 00:46:32,003

Uh and, and Cavill's like, "No.

:

00:46:32,803 --> 00:46:33,173

No.

:

00:46:33,223 --> 00:46:33,683

Shut up."

:

00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,710

Laura: Yeah, I didn't quite

understand what this whole part

:

00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:38,420

of the conversation was about.

:

00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:44,430

So he was saying that they set

this place up so that their faces

:

00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:46,090

could be revealed at this time?

:

00:46:46,105 --> 00:46:46,545

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

00:46:47,005 --> 00:46:47,415

Yeah.

:

00:46:47,490 --> 00:46:47,860

Laura: Okay.

:

00:46:48,085 --> 00:46:50,845

Ryan: You have to explain why that

happened, so then you have this

:

00:46:50,845 --> 00:46:53,695

scene to be like, "Hey, we, we didn't

forget that that thing happened.

:

00:46:53,705 --> 00:46:55,115

Ellen did it on purpose."

:

00:46:55,155 --> 00:46:56,535

And then Ellen's like, "No, no, no.

:

00:46:56,595 --> 00:46:57,805

This is a show about God.

:

00:46:58,305 --> 00:46:58,995

God did it."

:

00:47:00,155 --> 00:47:03,495

And then these two characters argue

about that for a little while.

:

00:47:04,225 --> 00:47:05,245

Do you like, um…

:

00:47:05,255 --> 00:47:07,445

We talked about Ellen's

different personality.

:

00:47:07,795 --> 00:47:13,455

How do you feel about now Ellen has gone

from, like, amoral drunk housewife, you

:

00:47:13,455 --> 00:47:18,305

know, like a Desperate Housewife wannabe

contender to born-again Christian?

:

00:47:19,336 --> 00:47:25,586

Laura: Okay, look, it sounds like

whatever Ellen had going on before this,

:

00:47:25,806 --> 00:47:31,746

she was like super serious scientist if

she was the m- one who found the key,

:

00:47:31,746 --> 00:47:33,886

and she was the most important one.

:

00:47:34,806 --> 00:47:35,136

And you know what?

:

00:47:35,186 --> 00:47:38,736

I'm kinda glad girl got a little,

like, time out to just go have fun.

:

00:47:39,216 --> 00:47:41,106

Like, it sounds like she had a lot of fun.

:

00:47:42,159 --> 00:47:45,779

Ryan: And she had so much fun that now

she has to go back, and not only go back,

:

00:47:45,779 --> 00:47:47,659

she has to really lean on the religion.

:

00:47:48,148 --> 00:47:48,798

Laura: Yeah

:

00:47:49,561 --> 00:47:52,931

Ryan: "I had a few many dicks, now

I gotta go down and pray for Jesus."

:

00:47:54,931 --> 00:47:56,671

Laura: Well, I'm glad she

got it out of her system.

:

00:47:56,671 --> 00:48:00,651

She's like, she's just done now,

and she's seen that, you know,

:

00:48:01,141 --> 00:48:03,371

what's out there is not that great.

:

00:48:03,702 --> 00:48:05,992

Ryan: It's just an interesting

contrast because they, it's just an

:

00:48:05,992 --> 00:48:10,360

interesting contrast because they even

show at the beginning of her previous

:

00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,570

final moment, she's very emotional.

:

00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:13,720

She's very human.

:

00:48:13,810 --> 00:48:16,750

That was the thing about Ellen, was she

was one of the most human characters

:

00:48:16,750 --> 00:48:18,840

we've had in the show, to a messy degree.

:

00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:21,410

And now she's extremely not.

:

00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:22,750

Like, she's cold.

:

00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,860

She's very rigid.

:

00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:30,660

She's very, like even her posture is

just so, like d- it's so, like there's

:

00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:33,500

just such a harsh demeanor to her now.

:

00:48:33,875 --> 00:48:35,265

Laura: I don't see her as cold.

:

00:48:35,335 --> 00:48:35,825

I don't know.

:

00:48:35,825 --> 00:48:36,335

I, I…

:

00:48:36,452 --> 00:48:39,422

Ryan: I did because like Cavill's

like why- like Cavill's like

:

00:48:39,432 --> 00:48:42,592

explaining all this stuff and she's

just like, "He doesn't get it.

:

00:48:43,372 --> 00:48:44,402

He's a child

:

00:48:44,743 --> 00:48:47,903

Laura: cold to him a little

bit, but not so much to Boomer.

:

00:48:49,683 --> 00:48:52,693

to Boomer she's sort of more teacherly,

:

00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:53,210

Ryan: Hmm.

:

00:48:53,610 --> 00:48:55,580

But she tries to manipulate Boomer too.

:

00:48:55,830 --> 00:48:57,390

She's like, "Boomer, I love you.

:

00:48:57,390 --> 00:48:58,420

We were so close."

:

00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,570

It's like, did they share scenes?

:

00:49:00,299 --> 00:49:03,389

She's like, "Oh, I can convince

you that my way is correct

:

00:49:03,399 --> 00:49:04,999

because he's not gonna budge.

:

00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:06,719

You need to see that he's wrong."

:

00:49:06,869 --> 00:49:07,949

So it's like she's still

:

00:49:07,966 --> 00:49:10,026

Laura: model is famously flip-floppy.

:

00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:13,159

Ryan: sh- like even her,

even that's still very cold.

:

00:49:13,479 --> 00:49:18,009

Like she's just calculating like who can

I, who can I wheel and deal in this room?

:

00:49:18,009 --> 00:49:21,439

And that, I mean, in all fairness,

that is Ellen, like in both versions.

:

00:49:21,499 --> 00:49:22,879

She was manipulative

:

00:49:23,524 --> 00:49:24,114

Laura: Yeah.

:

00:49:24,404 --> 00:49:24,784

Yeah.

:

00:49:24,874 --> 00:49:26,474

She was a-wheeling and a-dealing

:

00:49:26,617 --> 00:49:28,247

Ryan: She's, she's the Lady Macbeth.

:

00:49:28,264 --> 00:49:28,644

Laura: heels.

:

00:49:28,847 --> 00:49:29,087

Ryan: Yeah

:

00:49:30,664 --> 00:49:34,164

Laura: Before we leave this scene,

I need to talk about something.

:

00:49:34,914 --> 00:49:41,904

So Cavill's doing the, the telling

Diana about the boxing, she says,

:

00:49:41,954 --> 00:49:44,024

"Well, that's not permanent.

:

00:49:44,174 --> 00:49:48,254

She can be rebooted, like

what happened to the seven."

:

00:49:49,026 --> 00:49:49,386

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:49:49,926 --> 00:49:52,626

Laura: I need to know what

happened to the seven.

:

00:49:54,289 --> 00:49:56,439

Ryan: Well, I mean, they,

they kind of talk about it

:

00:49:57,226 --> 00:50:03,129

Laura: S- yes, but there's still

some open ends in there to me.

:

00:50:03,588 --> 00:50:04,798

so I've, I've got two theories.

:

00:50:04,798 --> 00:50:07,928

Do we wanna go ahead and talk about

them now or do we wanna wait till we

:

00:50:07,938 --> 00:50:09,518

find out what happens to the Seven

:

00:50:09,721 --> 00:50:10,301

Ryan: to Daniel

:

00:50:10,768 --> 00:50:11,298

Laura: sort of?

:

00:50:11,868 --> 00:50:12,728

To Daniel

:

00:50:13,455 --> 00:50:17,225

Ryan: Named after the Isaac Asimov

character from the Foundation books.

:

00:50:18,341 --> 00:50:18,911

Xhafer: Danielle,

:

00:50:19,055 --> 00:50:20,255

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

00:50:20,265 --> 00:50:21,045

Mm-hmm.

:

00:50:21,115 --> 00:50:23,765

Nice little wink for, for

you at home, you nerds

:

00:50:25,902 --> 00:50:27,192

Laura: We know you guys get it.

:

00:50:28,372 --> 00:50:32,991

Okay, we can just talk about it

later, but I, I, hmm, I need to know.

:

00:50:34,212 --> 00:50:37,592

Oh, and w- when we're manipulating

Boomer here at the end of the scene

:

00:50:38,122 --> 00:50:40,482

Boomer's like, "Well, I don't,

I don't have any use for love.

:

00:50:40,482 --> 00:50:42,352

Who would I possibly want to love?"

:

00:50:42,352 --> 00:50:43,712

And then we smash cut to Tyrell.

:

00:50:45,839 --> 00:50:46,359

Ryan: I can't remember.

:

00:50:46,359 --> 00:50:49,999

Is this a, is this a scene, which scene is

it where Ellen's, like, eating fruit and

:

00:50:49,999 --> 00:50:52,539

she, like, literally offers an apple to

:

00:50:52,604 --> 00:50:52,854

Laura: It's

:

00:50:52,897 --> 00:50:53,257

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:50:53,274 --> 00:50:53,804

Laura: one yet.

:

00:50:54,339 --> 00:50:55,749

Ryan: in case you didn't get it.

:

00:50:55,899 --> 00:50:58,279

In case you didn't get

it, everyone at home.

:

00:50:58,909 --> 00:51:00,009

Oh, yeah.

:

00:51:00,009 --> 00:51:02,669

But I did love that edit- I

did love that editing of, like,

:

00:51:02,669 --> 00:51:04,709

let's smash cut to Tyrell.

:

00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,559

Like, we, we, we can unpack it as we

get to the end of the episode, but

:

00:51:08,559 --> 00:51:12,706

there's nice, there's nice parallels

uh, in all of these different little

:

00:51:12,706 --> 00:51:16,766

plots, like how they're connecting

thematically and messaging-wise.

:

00:51:16,786 --> 00:51:20,436

Like, it may seem disparate at first

of like, okay, we're getting these

:

00:51:20,436 --> 00:51:24,676

flashback of Ellen, and we're dealing

with the ship has cracks in it.

:

00:51:24,686 --> 00:51:26,416

Like, how does that really tie together?

:

00:51:26,416 --> 00:51:30,146

But, like, little editing tricks

like this really thread the needle

:

00:51:30,571 --> 00:51:30,821

Laura: Mm-hmm.

:

00:51:31,445 --> 00:51:32,005

Yeah.

:

00:51:32,288 --> 00:51:35,868

he and Saul are arguing

about what they did,

:

00:51:37,010 --> 00:51:39,130

Xhafer: complicitness in

the genocide of humanity

:

00:51:39,254 --> 00:51:42,214

Laura: And Tyrell's like, "Well,

you know, we bought them some

:

00:51:42,214 --> 00:51:46,244

time by making these mon- getting,

getting, stopping that first war.

:

00:51:46,254 --> 00:51:48,804

Like, that gave them

some time to keep going."

:

00:51:48,804 --> 00:51:52,274

And Sol's like, "But look what

it, look what it wrought."

:

00:51:54,274 --> 00:51:58,904

But Tory's like, "Well, if you wanna

keep going back, like, this is humanity's

:

00:51:58,904 --> 00:52:01,144

fault 'cause they made us back on Kobol.

:

00:52:02,041 --> 00:52:02,541

Ryan: Mm-hmm

:

00:52:02,644 --> 00:52:03,654

Laura: 13th tribe."

:

00:52:04,068 --> 00:52:04,808

So

:

00:52:05,415 --> 00:52:08,235

Ryan: And then Sol argues, "Yeah,

but we can keep pointing back to the

:

00:52:08,245 --> 00:52:12,815

v- very germ that crawled out of the

primordial ooze and com- blame that too."

:

00:52:12,815 --> 00:52:17,035

Like, at some point you have to take

ownership of your own actions, your own

:

00:52:17,512 --> 00:52:17,852

Laura: Sure.

:

00:52:17,855 --> 00:52:19,015

Ryan: choices that are made.

:

00:52:19,015 --> 00:52:21,225

Like, we were responsible for this.

:

00:52:21,235 --> 00:52:23,125

Like, we created this situation.

:

00:52:23,135 --> 00:52:25,805

Somebody created our situation,

but, like, that doesn't mean

:

00:52:25,805 --> 00:52:27,615

we can just wash our hands

:

00:52:27,832 --> 00:52:28,242

Laura: Yeah

:

00:52:28,485 --> 00:52:28,695

Ryan: this.

:

00:52:28,715 --> 00:52:30,795

And Tori's just, like, shaking

her head being like no.

:

00:52:32,335 --> 00:52:33,545

Nope, don't wanna do that."

:

00:52:34,728 --> 00:52:37,858

Laura: Tory, Tory's like, "Uh, didn't

you see me and Baltar a while back?

:

00:52:37,888 --> 00:52:38,948

I'm not about that."

:

00:52:39,693 --> 00:52:40,073

Ryan: No.

:

00:52:40,993 --> 00:52:41,813

No, I'm not about that.

:

00:52:41,833 --> 00:52:44,793

And it, it, it's good, again, as a

contrast to what we get of Cavill,

:

00:52:44,823 --> 00:52:46,203

'cause Cavill's the exact opposite.

:

00:52:46,203 --> 00:52:48,653

He's like, "No, this isn't our fault.

:

00:52:48,973 --> 00:52:51,543

I'm just delivering justice

upon our oppressors."

:

00:52:51,573 --> 00:52:54,723

Like, "I'm, I'm not gonna change on that."

:

00:52:54,723 --> 00:52:59,633

And Sol's just like, "At some point we

have to stop the cycle of violence."

:

00:53:00,183 --> 00:53:01,883

And that's coming from Sol-Ty.

:

00:53:02,392 --> 00:53:02,862

Laura: Yeah.

:

00:53:02,902 --> 00:53:06,442

I really like how Saul

is shaping up so far.

:

00:53:06,442 --> 00:53:10,002

I, I, I don't think you've gotten to

hear that episode yet, Ryan, but I

:

00:53:10,002 --> 00:53:14,212

was like, "Wow, I feel like there's

some real growth happening here."

:

00:53:14,699 --> 00:53:14,979

Ryan: Yeah

:

00:53:15,332 --> 00:53:18,986

Laura: Yeah, but they're, they're

argu- having this argument outside

:

00:53:19,006 --> 00:53:23,053

of, Anders' sick room or whatever.

:

00:53:23,394 --> 00:53:23,774

Ryan: room.

:

00:53:24,624 --> 00:53:24,934

Yeah.

:

00:53:25,363 --> 00:53:25,673

Laura: I can't, I

:

00:53:25,684 --> 00:53:25,914

Ryan: His,

:

00:53:26,113 --> 00:53:27,183

Laura: what these things are called.

:

00:53:28,244 --> 00:53:32,644

Ryan: his fully sick room where he's

got a cool poster of a BMX bike.

:

00:53:32,654 --> 00:53:32,914

Yeah.

:

00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:34,149

Laura: Some black

:

00:53:34,393 --> 00:53:34,793

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:53:35,039 --> 00:53:35,299

Laura: Yes.

:

00:53:35,704 --> 00:53:36,654

Ryan: Black lights.

:

00:53:36,674 --> 00:53:37,684

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:

00:53:38,264 --> 00:53:41,304

His black light shows all the

hairline fractures of the ship.

:

00:53:41,354 --> 00:53:41,634

Yeah

:

00:53:41,957 --> 00:53:45,057

Laura: Yeah, it's, it's pretty in there

'cause of all the little patterns.

:

00:53:45,487 --> 00:53:50,827

Um, yeah, the, they've brought

in a specialist who has-

:

00:53:51,303 --> 00:53:52,703

Xhafer: Not just any specialist.

:

00:53:52,723 --> 00:53:53,773

Did you clock this?

:

00:53:54,177 --> 00:53:56,087

Laura: but Aaron was like,

"Is that John Hodgman?"

:

00:53:57,493 --> 00:53:59,013

Xhafer: It is John Hodgman.

:

00:53:59,484 --> 00:53:59,884

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

00:54:00,314 --> 00:54:03,114

I had to look him up because I'm like,

"Oh, this guy feels like a guy…"

:

00:54:03,124 --> 00:54:04,924

Like, he doesn't feel

like just a normal actor.

:

00:54:04,924 --> 00:54:07,864

He feels like a little shticky

guy, and I had to look him up

:

00:54:08,271 --> 00:54:08,681

Laura: Mm-hmm.

:

00:54:09,031 --> 00:54:11,421

Xhafer: Little shticky guy

is actually, I think, on his

:

00:54:11,626 --> 00:54:11,986

Ryan: Yeah.

:

00:54:11,986 --> 00:54:13,556

'Cause he did, like,

a lot of, what was it?

:

00:54:13,566 --> 00:54:14,936

Mac commercials.

:

00:54:15,366 --> 00:54:16,296

He did a lot of, like

:

00:54:16,461 --> 00:54:18,151

Xhafer: He's done all kinds of stuff.

:

00:54:18,176 --> 00:54:20,416

Ryan: he … I looked him up and

he's, like, famous for doing,

:

00:54:20,416 --> 00:54:24,436

like, this nerd character for a

bunch of, like, Apple commercials.

:

00:54:24,446 --> 00:54:26,136

He did, like, 40 of them or something.

:

00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:27,299

Laura: the PC?

:

00:54:28,106 --> 00:54:28,716

Ryan: I don't know.

:

00:54:28,906 --> 00:54:29,656

Again, these are

:

00:54:29,899 --> 00:54:31,799

Laura: versus the Mac

commercials, and one of them's

:

00:54:31,803 --> 00:54:35,006

Xhafer: Yeah, and it was Justin

Long was the uh, the Mac,

:

00:54:35,087 --> 00:54:35,527

Ryan: Yeah.

:

00:54:36,077 --> 00:54:39,607

I don't know, but you have to-

everyone go look up, look up this guy.

:

00:54:39,617 --> 00:54:44,097

He's a brain specialist in this,

and he, his performance is so weird

:

00:54:44,137 --> 00:54:46,747

because it's so not from this show.

:

00:54:47,847 --> 00:54:48,527

It's like in…

:

00:54:48,837 --> 00:54:48,857

Yeah

:

00:54:48,906 --> 00:54:52,736

Xhafer: He's an author,

they're very funny books.

:

00:54:54,143 --> 00:54:55,933

Ryan: I, I loved his performance.

:

00:54:55,933 --> 00:54:58,643

He came in and he's like,

"Hey, by the way, I, I don't

:

00:54:58,803 --> 00:55:00,763

do the grim dark of this show.

:

00:55:01,083 --> 00:55:04,503

I'm going to perform this like

a Babylon 5 side character

:

00:55:04,670 --> 00:55:05,850

Laura: a happy little nerd.

:

00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:07,210

It's like,

:

00:55:07,264 --> 00:55:07,704

Xhafer: Yeah

:

00:55:07,740 --> 00:55:09,710

Laura: a happy little nerd right now?

:

00:55:10,290 --> 00:55:16,160

Um, I, I was kinda mad on Doc

Cottle's behalf because on, like,

:

00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,880

New Caprica, he was r- doing all of

the work on those Cylons, remember?

:

00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:21,800

He was having to be,

:

00:55:21,857 --> 00:55:22,187

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:24,630

Laura: the surgeon on call,

and I was like, "I feel like a

:

00:55:24,896 --> 00:55:25,266

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

:

00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:29,490

Laura: been helpful in that," and I don't

think we had this brain guy doing this.

:

00:55:30,575 --> 00:55:32,035

Ryan: You're assuming he was on Caprica

:

00:55:32,554 --> 00:55:34,624

Laura: I'm, he could have

been not on New Caprica.

:

00:55:34,624 --> 00:55:35,984

I guess he could have still been in the

:

00:55:36,056 --> 00:55:36,396

Xhafer: Yeah

:

00:55:37,551 --> 00:55:38,061

Ryan: Yeah

:

00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,700

Xhafer: I mean, Pegasus

presumably had a doctor.

:

00:55:41,034 --> 00:55:41,194

Laura: yeah.

:

00:55:42,254 --> 00:55:42,564

That's right.

:

00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:48,280

Xhafer: Even if, if it didn't before it

joined the fleet, maybe it was this guy.

:

00:55:48,330 --> 00:55:49,880

Like, there's stuff

:

00:55:50,102 --> 00:55:53,662

Laura: Can you imagine this character

being a happy little nerd on Pegasus when

:

00:55:53,662 --> 00:55:55,392

it was going through everything and Razor?

:

00:55:55,782 --> 00:55:56,182

Like,

:

00:55:56,447 --> 00:56:02,167

Ryan: was his story in Razor where, where,

where Kane executed the XO on the bridge,

:

00:56:02,197 --> 00:56:05,907

and he's just sitting in the background

being like, "Ooh, brain to collect."

:

00:56:06,067 --> 00:56:08,017

He's like an evil scientist.

:

00:56:10,317 --> 00:56:13,977

And he turns to his lab assistant, and

it's Jeffrey Combs, and he's just, like,

:

00:56:13,977 --> 00:56:16,227

in a big l- white, like white coat.

:

00:56:16,237 --> 00:56:18,677

He's like, "Yes, yes,

let's resurrect this."

:

00:56:19,407 --> 00:56:19,647

Yeah.

:

00:56:20,927 --> 00:56:21,907

"Let's reanimate it."

:

00:56:23,114 --> 00:56:24,654

Xhafer: I understood that reference.

:

00:56:25,084 --> 00:56:28,924

Um, yeah, so, they talk about

where the bullet is lodged.

:

00:56:28,984 --> 00:56:30,424

It's rather precarious.

:

00:56:30,424 --> 00:56:31,994

Another seizure's gonna mean death.

:

00:56:32,764 --> 00:56:36,534

he's he's got a condition that

they affectionately call word salad

:

00:56:37,164 --> 00:56:40,134

Laura: I wish I hadn't heard

any word salad recently

:

00:56:40,134 --> 00:56:43,254

from of power in my country.

:

00:56:43,967 --> 00:56:44,397

Ryan: Ooh.

:

00:56:44,734 --> 00:56:45,244

Xhafer: Yeah

:

00:56:45,441 --> 00:56:47,244

Ryan: Vote for, Anders everyone.

:

00:56:47,724 --> 00:56:48,494

Vote Anders

:

00:56:48,671 --> 00:56:49,211

Xhafer: No.

:

00:56:49,244 --> 00:56:49,984

Ryan: next election.

:

00:56:49,994 --> 00:56:51,894

Vote, vote for this Anders.

:

00:56:52,184 --> 00:56:52,794

You can trust him.

:

00:56:52,841 --> 00:56:53,551

Xhafer: coherent.

:

00:56:53,691 --> 00:56:58,061

That's actually just his, his only

tagline on the campaign, coherent.

:

00:56:58,897 --> 00:57:03,307

Cottle presses that they need to rush

this surgery here, and when he's all

:

00:57:03,307 --> 00:57:08,447

like, "No, I need to, like, write up

my novel before you do this," He looks

:

00:57:08,447 --> 00:57:11,197

over at Kara, and Kara's all like,

"Prep him for fucking surgery, guys.

:

00:57:11,197 --> 00:57:12,187

We're doing this now."

:

00:57:12,358 --> 00:57:18,888

Laura: I think the excuse is that because

he has this aphasia word salad, can't get

:

00:57:19,038 --> 00:57:22,988

the straight answer from him, so they're

gonna go with what Karis says to do.

:

00:57:23,483 --> 00:57:23,773

Ryan: Yeah.

:

00:57:24,107 --> 00:57:24,487

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:57:25,363 --> 00:57:29,903

Ryan: Thankfully, he has an injury that

lets him speak in mysterious prose that's

:

00:57:29,903 --> 00:57:32,113

so good for mystery box storytelling.

:

00:57:32,113 --> 00:57:33,693

"The circle must be broken."

:

00:57:35,353 --> 00:57:36,803

"Daniel was the key."

:

00:57:36,813 --> 00:57:37,693

Yeah, these things.

:

00:57:37,693 --> 00:57:38,183

Yeah, yeah.

:

00:57:38,955 --> 00:57:39,375

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

00:57:39,633 --> 00:57:40,553

Ryan: loved water."

:

00:57:40,623 --> 00:57:41,133

It's like, what?

:

00:57:43,133 --> 00:57:46,263

Xhafer: We cut back in time to

the start of the Silent Civil

:

00:57:46,263 --> 00:57:47,973

War as Cavil gives Ellen a drink.

:

00:57:48,803 --> 00:57:51,503

tells her that he needs her to

rebuild Resurrection because

:

00:57:51,513 --> 00:57:56,283

the hub has been destroyed, she

insists that she can't do it alone

:

00:57:56,703 --> 00:58:00,330

Laura: Yeah, but he thinks if I just

cut you open, I'll figure it out.

:

00:58:00,903 --> 00:58:05,703

Xhafer: we're just gonna do this super

invasive surgery where I splay your brain

:

00:58:05,703 --> 00:58:10,273

out on a table and poke it with electrodes

until I find out what I need to know

:

00:58:11,595 --> 00:58:12,045

Ryan: Adds up

:

00:58:12,281 --> 00:58:13,121

Xhafer: Cool.

:

00:58:14,201 --> 00:58:15,661

Where's Josh Hodgemann for this?

:

00:58:15,671 --> 00:58:18,451

This is the exact kind of thing

he'd be really geeked about.

:

00:58:18,475 --> 00:58:22,225

Ryan: again, nice parallel of like

brain surgery stuff in both s-

:

00:58:22,255 --> 00:58:25,805

storylines here, and he's doing it

with coercion, and he's like, "You're

:

00:58:25,855 --> 00:58:27,425

gonna do it against your will."

:

00:58:27,425 --> 00:58:28,992

And yeah, he's just vindictive.

:

00:58:29,002 --> 00:58:32,402

He's a vindictive man,

and that's his problem.

:

00:58:32,402 --> 00:58:33,252

Like, he's a man.

:

00:58:33,262 --> 00:58:34,732

He doesn't want to be a man.

:

00:58:34,742 --> 00:58:36,612

He wants to be more than that.

:

00:58:36,622 --> 00:58:38,012

He's supposed to be special.

:

00:58:38,022 --> 00:58:40,902

Like, they always have like

these nice little back-and-forths

:

00:58:40,942 --> 00:58:43,312

throughout this episode where she's

like, "Ooh, did I make you blush?"

:

00:58:43,312 --> 00:58:44,202

And he's like, "Fuck.

:

00:58:44,442 --> 00:58:46,892

N- yes, you did, but that's

like, just another fault of

:

00:58:46,912 --> 00:58:48,222

being in this stupid body."

:

00:58:48,532 --> 00:58:52,522

Like, he just has this all of the time,

and it's just like, oh, every time

:

00:58:52,522 --> 00:58:55,922

she like tries to like reason with

him, it just makes him madder because

:

00:58:55,922 --> 00:58:58,052

it just makes him feel more insecure.

:

00:58:58,052 --> 00:59:01,029

So she's like, "Oh, you're doing

this whole uh, way of doing it

:

00:59:01,029 --> 00:59:02,509

through technology in this way.

:

00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:03,389

Have you thought about this?"

:

00:59:03,389 --> 00:59:05,919

And he's like, "Well, no,

because I have meat paws.

:

00:59:06,429 --> 00:59:09,509

If I had cool metal hands, I

could do it better, but no, you

:

00:59:09,509 --> 00:59:10,579

had to make me like a loser."

:

00:59:12,130 --> 00:59:13,370

Laura: I just, I don't know.

:

00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:17,100

Like, Cavil is assuming a lot.

:

00:59:17,110 --> 00:59:21,990

Like, the, the other Cylons, the 13th

tribe Cylons that have been around

:

00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:27,965

for a long time, like, it seems like

historically we would've tried a bunch

:

00:59:27,965 --> 00:59:29,915

of different machine things, right?

:

00:59:30,345 --> 00:59:33,855

And we probably settled

on the one that worked.

:

00:59:34,295 --> 00:59:34,505

So

:

00:59:34,546 --> 00:59:35,826

Ryan: Well, what defines work though?

:

00:59:35,856 --> 00:59:38,156

Because it still went up tits up for them.

:

00:59:39,309 --> 00:59:39,539

Laura: That's

:

00:59:39,596 --> 00:59:40,986

Ryan: it didn't work out for them either.

:

00:59:41,189 --> 00:59:41,659

Laura: Yeah, yeah,

:

00:59:41,946 --> 00:59:45,846

Ryan: Yeah, yeah, it didn't work for

them, so how do they know any better?

:

00:59:46,106 --> 00:59:50,756

And the answer is because it's worked

because we say so, and that's his argument

:

00:59:50,756 --> 00:59:54,196

is like, "Well, I'm sorry that your

parentalism isn't good enough for me.

:

00:59:55,046 --> 00:59:57,566

I need my own free will,

and you've trapped me."

:

00:59:58,156 --> 01:00:00,956

Have we already had the speech,

his big speech where he's,

:

01:00:00,956 --> 01:00:04,436

like, upset that he couldn't see

supernovas and things like that?

:

01:00:04,571 --> 01:00:05,811

Laura: still coming to that, I'm pretty

:

01:00:05,866 --> 01:00:07,616

Ryan: That's, that's a…

:

01:00:07,766 --> 01:00:08,196

Yeah.

:

01:00:08,476 --> 01:00:10,066

But yeah, he has, he has…

:

01:00:10,536 --> 01:00:15,536

And I'm- I said in my first appearance

in our "Battlestar" coverage that I

:

01:00:15,546 --> 01:00:19,126

dropped off "Battlestar" and then I

reconnected to "Battlestar" because

:

01:00:19,146 --> 01:00:22,586

there was a guest star that was a

regular, like, a villainous force in

:

01:00:22,586 --> 01:00:25,726

it, and I came back on 'cause I wanted

to see that, and it was Dean Stockwell.

:

01:00:25,956 --> 01:00:26,776

I love Dean Stockwell.

:

01:00:26,831 --> 01:00:26,841

Laura: no

:

01:00:27,666 --> 01:00:29,346

Ryan: I love "Quantum Leap."

:

01:00:29,436 --> 01:00:33,526

I love Dean Stockwell in "Quantum

Leap," and I was so curious to see him

:

01:00:34,086 --> 01:00:36,566

as this villainous force in the show.

:

01:00:36,566 --> 01:00:40,136

So when I came back, it was, like,

a bit way through Season 3, and he

:

01:00:40,136 --> 01:00:44,466

was just so wonderful just hamming

it up doing his Dean Stockwell thing.

:

01:00:45,146 --> 01:00:46,316

And it is special.

:

01:00:46,316 --> 01:00:51,466

Like, this episode is carried on the

back of Dean Stockwell in a lot of ways.

:

01:00:51,476 --> 01:00:53,856

Like, he's just so magnetic.

:

01:00:53,866 --> 01:00:58,586

And even if you say Cavill's

petulant or he's whatever, Dean

:

01:00:58,586 --> 01:01:00,866

Stockwell sells the shit out of it.

:

01:01:00,896 --> 01:01:05,406

He's so good in this role, and he's,

like, the, one of the most interesting

:

01:01:05,406 --> 01:01:08,816

Cylons because they wrote for him.

:

01:01:08,906 --> 01:01:10,996

Like, you can tell they

wrote for Dean Stockwell.

:

01:01:11,026 --> 01:01:13,416

They just kind of gave

up with other Cylons.

:

01:01:13,416 --> 01:01:14,556

They're like, "Ah, I

don't know what to do."

:

01:01:14,556 --> 01:01:17,796

And then with Ca- and the biggest

sin is Cavill should've been in

:

01:01:17,796 --> 01:01:22,406

the show more because this is the

episode-- how many do we have left?

:

01:01:22,626 --> 01:01:26,706

This is the episode in which we

actually articulate what the Cylons'

:

01:01:26,716 --> 01:01:30,486

fucking problem is right now, and

we've just kind of nebulously been

:

01:01:30,496 --> 01:01:34,126

drifting along going, "Ah, they were

slaves once, and they didn't like

:

01:01:34,126 --> 01:01:35,646

that, and now they're going after us."

:

01:01:35,646 --> 01:01:38,136

But we haven't really

articulated it any deeper,

:

01:01:38,299 --> 01:01:38,809

Laura: Yeah

:

01:01:39,026 --> 01:01:41,266

Ryan: is the episode where we

say, "No, let's sit down and

:

01:01:41,276 --> 01:01:42,456

give them a point of view."

:

01:01:42,476 --> 01:01:45,626

And it's like, "Guys, we only have,

like, a handful of episodes left.

:

01:01:45,626 --> 01:01:47,586

Maybe you should've done this way more."

:

01:01:48,155 --> 01:01:49,065

Laura: Two things.

:

01:01:49,435 --> 01:01:52,965

I think it's interesting that, that

the beef has been, "Oh, they were

:

01:01:52,965 --> 01:01:58,115

slaves and they're mad about it,"

and these Cylons were never slaves.

:

01:01:58,155 --> 01:02:00,185

They weren't even like…

:

01:02:00,635 --> 01:02:01,345

The, the…

:

01:02:01,365 --> 01:02:05,445

He calls the centurions, like, his

cousins or something, but it's like,

:

01:02:05,918 --> 01:02:06,238

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:02:07,185 --> 01:02:08,315

Laura: you weren't one of them.

:

01:02:08,345 --> 01:02:10,375

You, you were never enslaved by humans.

:

01:02:11,118 --> 01:02:12,678

Ryan: Yeah, he's Kill-

he's Killmonger, yeah

:

01:02:13,245 --> 01:02:13,605

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:02:14,058 --> 01:02:14,378

Xhafer: Yeah

:

01:02:14,830 --> 01:02:17,890

Ryan: It's that idea of like our

ancestors were enslaved and I'm going

:

01:02:17,890 --> 01:02:21,480

to oppress you so you know how it feels

:

01:02:21,729 --> 01:02:22,069

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:02:22,439 --> 01:02:25,939

And other thing, we did s-

accidentally miss the supernova thing.

:

01:02:25,949 --> 01:02:29,189

That was back at the Temple

of the Five or whatever.

:

01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:33,599

he gives this big rant about, "I

wish I could've seen the supernova

:

01:02:33,599 --> 01:02:35,069

without these pathetic human eyes."

:

01:02:36,006 --> 01:02:39,146

Ryan: To feel the solar waves on my body.

:

01:02:39,156 --> 01:02:41,136

It's one of the best speeches in the show.

:

01:02:41,936 --> 01:02:46,526

It's one of the most glorious

speeches, and it's so…

:

01:02:47,216 --> 01:02:47,976

Like, it's stunning.

:

01:02:47,976 --> 01:02:50,796

It's why I wanted to do the episode

as well, is it's like that speech,

:

01:02:50,846 --> 01:02:52,606

I've watched that just in isolation.

:

01:02:52,606 --> 01:02:56,536

I've gone back and re-watched that and

I, and I just nod along going, "Yeah."

:

01:02:56,756 --> 01:02:57,806

Because that's the show.

:

01:02:57,836 --> 01:03:03,766

The show said this is a show

in which a bunch of robots have

:

01:03:03,766 --> 01:03:08,516

now ascended to a humanoid form,

and they have a problem with us.

:

01:03:08,696 --> 01:03:13,306

And for so much of the show, they

never really grapple with why does

:

01:03:13,306 --> 01:03:15,846

making them a human be better?

:

01:03:15,886 --> 01:03:18,376

Is, why is that better

other than for infiltration?

:

01:03:19,226 --> 01:03:23,066

For the most of the show, they've

said, "Oh, because they've got God.

:

01:03:23,386 --> 01:03:24,336

Because we've got this relat-…"

:

01:03:24,376 --> 01:03:26,826

All these human ideas.

:

01:03:26,826 --> 01:03:27,176

It's not…

:

01:03:27,186 --> 01:03:32,356

Like, they boil the Cylons down

to very human concepts, and the

:

01:03:32,356 --> 01:03:34,996

Cylons, like Six, are fine with that.

:

01:03:35,356 --> 01:03:37,206

And I'm, and I've always been like, "Why?

:

01:03:37,756 --> 01:03:38,996

They are robots.

:

01:03:38,996 --> 01:03:40,546

They are not us."

:

01:03:40,586 --> 01:03:44,796

And finally, Cavill comes along and

he says, "I have a problem with that.

:

01:03:44,796 --> 01:03:45,916

It doesn't make sense for me.

:

01:03:46,206 --> 01:03:47,256

It doesn't work for me."

:

01:03:47,356 --> 01:03:50,556

He has this big glorious speech, and

Ellen just looks at him and goes,

:

01:03:51,256 --> 01:03:54,296

"Hmm, but if you knew God's will, you

would understand that you're wrong."

:

01:03:55,656 --> 01:04:00,866

Because this form, this body, this

way of thinking is the only way to do

:

01:04:00,866 --> 01:04:04,426

it, even though historically speaking,

we've shown that it's lead to ruin

:

01:04:05,249 --> 01:04:05,788

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:04:07,140 --> 01:04:11,200

Ryan: And she looks at him u- unironically

and says it with no, no sense of

:

01:04:11,690 --> 01:04:13,330

doubt, and he's just like flummoxed.

:

01:04:13,330 --> 01:04:15,550

He's just driven more insane by it

:

01:04:16,003 --> 01:04:18,663

Laura: I feel like even the

Cylons that don't have a strong

:

01:04:18,663 --> 01:04:23,693

like, oh, one, one true Cylon god

motivation, they're, they're still

:

01:04:23,693 --> 01:04:25,533

grasping for like human love.

:

01:04:25,753 --> 01:04:27,803

They, they're like, "Ah,

human love must be it.

:

01:04:27,863 --> 01:04:29,773

That's the thing that's really important."

:

01:04:30,342 --> 01:04:30,642

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:04:31,412 --> 01:04:33,842

And it's like, why did you

make us feel these things?

:

01:04:33,842 --> 01:04:38,032

Why did you give her, like, a

bipolar personality disorder?

:

01:04:38,032 --> 01:04:39,182

Like, why did you do that?

:

01:04:39,412 --> 01:04:40,612

What does that benefit?

:

01:04:40,822 --> 01:04:44,721

What does making a robot

depressed give you, give us?

:

01:04:44,721 --> 01:04:45,532

Like, like she…

:

01:04:46,302 --> 01:04:47,292

This is the thing.

:

01:04:47,312 --> 01:04:49,502

This is so, like, spot on.

:

01:04:49,522 --> 01:04:50,012

It's just…

:

01:04:50,552 --> 01:04:51,382

And I love it.

:

01:04:51,402 --> 01:04:52,432

I love this speech.

:

01:04:52,572 --> 01:04:53,732

It's amazing stuff

:

01:04:53,966 --> 01:04:57,316

Xhafer: we cut back to Anders

who speed runs their history.

:

01:04:57,666 --> 01:05:02,470

Cavil was the first, the monotheism

that the Cylons have actually

:

01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:03,900

comes from the Centurions

:

01:05:04,248 --> 01:05:04,708

Ryan: Hmm.

:

01:05:05,918 --> 01:05:06,428

Interesting

:

01:05:06,430 --> 01:05:07,170

Xhafer: They say that.

:

01:05:07,170 --> 01:05:11,580

The, the centurions are the ones who

had the faith in one true God, which is

:

01:05:11,580 --> 01:05:13,320

why this time was going to be different

:

01:05:14,315 --> 01:05:14,605

Laura: Hmm.

:

01:05:14,745 --> 01:05:18,465

Okay, so the 13th tribe

was not the monotheism?

:

01:05:19,415 --> 01:05:23,325

Xhafer: Uh, They might have also been,

but when they arrived, the centurion…

:

01:05:23,345 --> 01:05:26,145

They didn't bring religion

to the centurions.

:

01:05:26,145 --> 01:05:28,515

The centurions had a

monotheistic religion.

:

01:05:29,227 --> 01:05:31,697

Ryan: But they enforced it still.

:

01:05:31,707 --> 01:05:34,757

Like, they may have already had it,

but they enforced this idea when

:

01:05:34,757 --> 01:05:37,346

they created the, the human models.

:

01:05:37,357 --> 01:05:39,477

Hence, Cavill is like, "I don't, though."

:

01:05:39,915 --> 01:05:43,585

Xhafer: Cavill helped them make all

the other models too, they say in here.

:

01:05:43,696 --> 01:05:44,346

Laura: was the first.

:

01:05:44,346 --> 01:05:47,236

He helped make everyone, Ellen,

:

01:05:47,605 --> 01:05:47,904

Xhafer: Which

:

01:05:47,926 --> 01:05:51,726

Laura: says that, oh, the, the cycle

of violence can end if we create

:

01:05:52,386 --> 01:05:54,526

robots that can embrace love and mercy.

:

01:05:55,096 --> 01:05:55,476

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:05:56,204 --> 01:05:57,864

Laura: we did such a great job at that.

:

01:05:59,486 --> 01:05:59,866

Xhafer: Nailed it

:

01:06:00,103 --> 01:06:01,363

Ryan: It doesn't work like that though.

:

01:06:01,973 --> 01:06:03,553

Like, she is very naive.

:

01:06:03,563 --> 01:06:09,903

Like, she has that idea of like, "Well,

have you ever seen the TV series Pluribus?

:

01:06:09,963 --> 01:06:14,603

That would be the ideal of our lives

if we all just collectively were happy

:

01:06:14,603 --> 01:06:16,163

and everything worked out for us."

:

01:06:16,433 --> 01:06:18,363

And it's like, "Ugh, sorry,

it doesn't work like that."

:

01:06:18,923 --> 01:06:22,213

And they're like, "Yeah, but if

we just keep trying, it will."

:

01:06:22,233 --> 01:06:25,203

And Cavill, his existence

is saying it doesn't

:

01:06:25,882 --> 01:06:26,382

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:06:26,928 --> 01:06:31,098

Xhafer: So Cavill turned on them killed

them, resurrected them in bodies,

:

01:06:31,318 --> 01:06:36,528

implanted memories, and put them out

amongst humanity so that they could

:

01:06:36,538 --> 01:06:39,648

witness the death of everyone else.

:

01:06:39,940 --> 01:06:40,170

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

01:06:40,738 --> 01:06:44,908

Xhafer: Very specifically, everyone was

planted to be able to witness the genocide

:

01:06:46,062 --> 01:06:46,332

Ryan: Uh,

:

01:06:46,342 --> 01:06:47,592

Holocaust, he says.

:

01:06:48,112 --> 01:06:49,842

He says Holocaust specifically

:

01:06:51,007 --> 01:06:55,177

Xhafer: Yeah, which is that

statement itself has implications

:

01:06:56,310 --> 01:06:59,080

Ryan: And then she's more

confused of like, "But then you

:

01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:00,240

didn't end it there, did you?

:

01:07:00,650 --> 01:07:05,310

You had a, you had this big Machiavellian

plan, and you've kept going.

:

01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:07,080

We didn't die there.

:

01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,960

You made sure that all of us could be

here, and then you've put us through the

:

01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:15,290

wringer again and again and again and

again, and oh, now, now on New Caprica,

:

01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:17,040

you take Saul's eye, eye of Section…"

:

01:07:17,060 --> 01:07:19,360

Like, you just keep doing it.

:

01:07:19,380 --> 01:07:20,279

What's the point?"

:

01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,779

And he's just like, "Because I'm…"

:

01:07:23,070 --> 01:07:26,730

And he's like, "If you don't wanna

be human, then why are you so driven

:

01:07:26,730 --> 01:07:28,930

by revenge, a very human trait?"

:

01:07:29,075 --> 01:07:29,404

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,050

Ryan: he's like, "Oh, I'm

not driven by revenge.

:

01:07:32,050 --> 01:07:33,830

I'm br- driven by justice."

:

01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:35,100

And it's like

:

01:07:35,425 --> 01:07:38,265

Laura: justice for my centurion brethren.

:

01:07:38,345 --> 01:07:39,045

Yes.

:

01:07:39,493 --> 01:07:40,103

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:07:40,379 --> 01:07:43,199

Ryan: But that's, that's like,

that's the, like again, a brilliant

:

01:07:43,219 --> 01:07:44,529

thing about him as an antagonist.

:

01:07:44,529 --> 01:07:49,589

Like, he refuses being human, but

he's inherently human, and he, and he

:

01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:51,509

loathes it, and he can't break from it.

:

01:07:51,509 --> 01:07:56,619

Like, "I made sleep not

happen, but I can't not blush.

:

01:07:56,639 --> 01:07:59,519

I can't not have horny feelings.

:

01:07:59,519 --> 01:08:03,419

I, I can't remove those things,

and I can't remove the bloodlust,

:

01:08:03,909 --> 01:08:06,809

and I'll justify it as justice."

:

01:08:07,166 --> 01:08:07,316

Laura: Mm-hmm.

:

01:08:07,859 --> 01:08:08,159

Ryan: You know?

:

01:08:08,231 --> 01:08:08,571

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:08:09,339 --> 01:08:12,819

Alan's like, "This seems like a lot of

work for the convenience of the plot."

:

01:08:12,999 --> 01:08:14,139

And he's all like, "Eh."

:

01:08:16,139 --> 01:08:19,538

There's a quick scene in here too where

Sol, we find out Sol hasn't anything,

:

01:08:19,559 --> 01:08:20,868

had anything to drink in weeks,

:

01:08:21,064 --> 01:08:21,505

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

01:08:21,678 --> 01:08:22,247

Laura: around.

:

01:08:22,299 --> 01:08:24,419

Xhafer: tells us, and also

he feels the baby kick.

:

01:08:24,535 --> 01:08:24,545

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

01:08:24,939 --> 01:08:25,118

Xhafer: Ooh

:

01:08:25,488 --> 01:08:26,098

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:08:26,997 --> 01:08:30,018

was a little surprised it's been weeks.

:

01:08:30,265 --> 01:08:30,725

hmm.

:

01:08:31,916 --> 01:08:38,827

When exactly did The Earth happen how much

time was in between Earth and the mutiny?

:

01:08:39,207 --> 01:08:40,607

'Cause we know we're

right after the mutiny

:

01:08:41,376 --> 01:08:41,776

Ryan: Yeah

:

01:08:42,134 --> 01:08:46,724

Laura: And that's when Saul told

Adama, "I think we've had enough."

:

01:08:47,328 --> 01:08:50,618

I don't-- I just don't feel like it's

actually been weeks since he had a drink.

:

01:08:50,639 --> 01:08:54,488

Maybe it's been weeks since alcohol

was in, in their quarters, but

:

01:08:54,970 --> 01:08:55,479

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:08:55,609 --> 01:08:56,979

It was making her sick.

:

01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,370

And then she rubs her belly

to let you know she's pregnant

:

01:09:00,691 --> 01:09:03,151

Laura: When did she get

out of the brig exactly?

:

01:09:03,470 --> 01:09:04,911

Like, was it at Earth?

:

01:09:04,941 --> 01:09:07,081

We just decided she doesn't

need to be in the brig anymore?

:

01:09:08,250 --> 01:09:10,520

Ryan: Yeah, they c-- well,

well, I know that they've

:

01:09:10,529 --> 01:09:12,149

been taking her to the doctor.

:

01:09:12,510 --> 01:09:15,399

Like, they've been giving her

things, but I don't know when they

:

01:09:15,589 --> 01:09:16,509

Laura: up with Saul?

:

01:09:19,334 --> 01:09:19,354

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:09:19,354 --> 01:09:24,033

Um, I hate this scene by the way,

'cause it's like this false, like

:

01:09:24,234 --> 01:09:28,533

sweet moment where it's like,

"Sol, the baby's been moving," and

:

01:09:28,544 --> 01:09:30,304

he's like, "Oh, that's so great.

:

01:09:30,624 --> 01:09:31,734

I don't believe you though."

:

01:09:31,734 --> 01:09:33,874

And then he feels that nothing's

happening and all that.

:

01:09:33,984 --> 01:09:37,794

It's very hokey, and I think

there is something to…

:

01:09:38,220 --> 01:09:39,559

It is uncomfortable.

:

01:09:40,190 --> 01:09:43,390

Not only is it that this episode's

highlighting that he is her

:

01:09:43,450 --> 01:09:48,590

creator/father, like Ellen and

Sol are Adam and Eve very much so,

:

01:09:48,825 --> 01:09:49,285

Laura: Uh-huh.

:

01:09:49,410 --> 01:09:50,350

Ryan: Which is crazy to say.

:

01:09:50,750 --> 01:09:53,700

Um, he was her jailer,

:

01:09:54,485 --> 01:09:55,015

Laura: Yes.

:

01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:55,430

Ryan: know?

:

01:09:55,915 --> 01:09:56,245

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:09:57,059 --> 01:10:00,520

Ryan: And they're treating this in the

show as like what a sweet thing this is.

:

01:10:00,550 --> 01:10:01,050

There's no…

:

01:10:01,455 --> 01:10:02,025

Laura: No.

:

01:10:02,750 --> 01:10:03,940

Ryan: He tortured her.

:

01:10:04,100 --> 01:10:05,010

Like, he beat her.

:

01:10:05,020 --> 01:10:06,170

Like, he was her jailer.

:

01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,300

He's a, you know, and it, and now we

have this other layer and it's like

:

01:10:09,615 --> 01:10:13,135

Laura: he was superimposing Ellen's

face, like, in his head, or maybe

:

01:10:13,236 --> 01:10:13,646

Ryan: Yeah

:

01:10:13,725 --> 01:10:13,765

Laura: it.

:

01:10:13,805 --> 01:10:14,335

I don't know.

:

01:10:14,365 --> 01:10:18,905

Somehow Ellen's face was on

her, and this is weird and

:

01:10:19,004 --> 01:10:21,044

Ryan: And why, and Six is happy.

:

01:10:21,464 --> 01:10:24,924

And also, also in the very beginning

when they showed us, like, the

:

01:10:24,934 --> 01:10:31,584

timeline of, like, the show, the

image we got of Six was her post

:

01:10:31,584 --> 01:10:33,724

killing the baby in the miniseries.

:

01:10:33,774 --> 01:10:37,304

That was, that was the image that

they showed, and I think that's a very

:

01:10:38,014 --> 01:10:42,314

interesting thing to choose and then

have this be her scene in the episode.

:

01:10:42,847 --> 01:10:43,297

Laura: Yeah

:

01:10:43,564 --> 01:10:46,814

Ryan: And it's like, here's my

question: Has she gone on a major arc

:

01:10:47,214 --> 01:10:50,174

in that way where it's like, oh, she

started out as someone who doesn't

:

01:10:50,174 --> 01:10:53,184

care, and she would literally kill a

baby with her own hands, and then by

:

01:10:53,193 --> 01:10:56,244

the end she's gonna have a baby, and

it's really ch- You know what I mean?

:

01:10:56,334 --> 01:10:56,704

I don't know

:

01:10:57,191 --> 01:11:02,901

Laura: I, I feel like what I've gotten

from the six character, or at least

:

01:11:02,911 --> 01:11:06,681

the six model, maybe not all sixes

'cause we've met a bunch of sixes,

:

01:11:06,681 --> 01:11:10,651

but the six model, the understanding

I was starting to come to about the

:

01:11:10,651 --> 01:11:16,432

baby thing is uh, well, part of it

was, like, really driven by jealousy.

:

01:11:16,432 --> 01:11:18,242

Like, she really wants that.

:

01:11:18,262 --> 01:11:22,942

The six model really wants

to be a mother and procreate.

:

01:11:23,902 --> 01:11:24,302

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

:

01:11:24,306 --> 01:11:29,666

Laura: so some of that was some

complicated s- stuff going on,

:

01:11:29,666 --> 01:11:31,606

and that's why she does what

she does in the miniseries.

:

01:11:31,626 --> 01:11:33,746

But, uh

:

01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,420

Xhafer: I mean, at one point she

said she does it out of mercy

:

01:11:36,621 --> 01:11:39,431

Ryan: Yeah, because she's the most

religious until we meet Leoben.

:

01:11:39,971 --> 01:11:42,141

She's the most staunchly

religious from the beginning.

:

01:11:42,141 --> 01:11:45,111

She's like, "This is a

mercy from God," basically.

:

01:11:46,008 --> 01:11:46,318

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:11:47,441 --> 01:11:48,071

Ryan: yeah.

:

01:11:48,551 --> 01:11:49,151

Yeah, I don't know.

:

01:11:49,151 --> 01:11:51,681

I hated th- this was my least

favorite scene of the episode 'cause

:

01:11:51,681 --> 01:11:53,141

it's just like we need to check in

:

01:11:53,548 --> 01:11:54,838

Laura: It's so creepy.

:

01:11:55,757 --> 01:11:56,197

Ryan: Mm-hmm

:

01:11:56,656 --> 01:12:01,526

Xhafer: Ellen tells us that Cavill killed

Daniel before they could make any copies.

:

01:12:01,566 --> 01:12:04,576

Like, they did a thing where they

messed up his, like, entire genome

:

01:12:04,626 --> 01:12:05,016

Ryan: Yeah

:

01:12:05,583 --> 01:12:08,073

Laura: I didn't c- I didn't catch

that part, I guess, that they,

:

01:12:08,083 --> 01:12:09,303

they weren't able to make copies.

:

01:12:09,323 --> 01:12:12,773

I know that s- there was

contamination of the amniotic fluid

:

01:12:13,724 --> 01:12:16,014

Xhafer: they're not able

to make any more copy.

:

01:12:16,064 --> 01:12:17,724

It's a, it's, it's iffy.

:

01:12:17,860 --> 01:12:20,850

Ryan: They make it sound like he--

Well, the reveal, John did it.

:

01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,350

Cavill did this 'cause he's jealous, and

:

01:12:23,574 --> 01:12:23,824

Xhafer: Yeah

:

01:12:24,140 --> 01:12:27,460

Ryan: does kind of concede

that she was playing favorites

:

01:12:27,490 --> 01:12:28,540

that Daniel was her favorite.

:

01:12:28,540 --> 01:12:29,690

He was the artist.

:

01:12:30,020 --> 01:12:34,300

He was, you know, that type of thing,

and Cavill got jealous, and so he

:

01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,220

poisoned the amniotic fluid that,

like, basically shuts down being

:

01:12:38,220 --> 01:12:40,380

able to make more, and then they…

:

01:12:40,420 --> 01:12:42,410

I can't remember the exact line, but

there was something about, about,

:

01:12:42,410 --> 01:12:45,790

like, and then he kind of fucked

with the actual one that was around.

:

01:12:46,150 --> 01:12:50,430

So basically, he shut

down the Sevens entirely.

:

01:12:50,460 --> 01:12:51,840

Like, he didn't box them.

:

01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:52,809

He fucking murdered.

:

01:12:52,820 --> 01:12:54,230

He poisoned the earth.

:

01:12:54,309 --> 01:12:59,080

He basically salted the earth of that, and

we can't do it again, and he's, like, lost

:

01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:03,720

is what Ellen says, and, and Cavill's just

like, "I'm not admitting to any of that.

:

01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:04,250

Why would I?"

:

01:13:04,460 --> 01:13:05,860

And then it's like, "But you

did, though," and he's like, "Mm.

:

01:13:05,890 --> 01:13:06,160

Mm."

:

01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:07,850

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

:

01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:14,253

Laura: Ah, so I, you guys don't have

to say anything 'cause you can't

:

01:13:14,731 --> 01:13:16,801

Xhafer: We probably won't,

but go ahead and ask

:

01:13:17,140 --> 01:13:20,620

Laura: like we've gotta, like the

Daniel's gotta be around, right?

:

01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:25,220

not just like, "Oh, we have this one

Cylon that never, never happened.

:

01:13:25,530 --> 01:13:25,920

It's…

:

01:13:26,220 --> 01:13:27,720

But we brought him up for some reason."

:

01:13:30,629 --> 01:13:31,249

Xhafer: I said maybe

:

01:13:31,260 --> 01:13:35,207

Laura: And I told Aaron, I was like,

" I, I just, I don't know if I think

:

01:13:35,207 --> 01:13:39,127

this is it or not," but I was like,

"I mean, Gaius is pretty fucked up.

:

01:13:40,056 --> 01:13:40,856

Ryan: Oh, you think it's Gaius?

:

01:13:41,027 --> 01:13:41,177

Laura: Gaius

:

01:13:43,066 --> 01:13:46,516

Ryan: Yeah, now, now we're playing

who's the, who's the true final Cylon?

:

01:13:46,516 --> 01:13:48,026

It's not Ellen, the true final Cylon.

:

01:13:49,745 --> 01:13:54,284

Xhafer: When he drops into his uh, his

uh, farmer accent again and goes, "Well,

:

01:13:54,284 --> 01:13:56,304

my name was Daniel before I moved."

:

01:13:56,445 --> 01:13:58,195

Ryan: Boxy's real name is Daniel.

:

01:13:58,766 --> 01:13:59,096

Laura: Mm.

:

01:13:59,884 --> 01:14:00,534

Xhafer: Boxy,

:

01:14:00,675 --> 01:14:01,115

Ryan: it's Boxy.

:

01:14:02,486 --> 01:14:02,686

Laura: I,

:

01:14:02,785 --> 01:14:03,145

Ryan: And he…

:

01:14:03,264 --> 01:14:04,644

Xhafer: Daniel Boxy

:

01:14:04,775 --> 01:14:06,235

Ryan: Yeah, you could box me.

:

01:14:08,568 --> 01:14:11,538

Laura: Like it, it could, like

Gaius is a fucked up little man.

:

01:14:11,568 --> 01:14:17,868

Like, we haven't really

seen like art from him, but,

:

01:14:18,888 --> 01:14:22,248

Ryan: is there anyone in the cast

that has artistic experiences?

:

01:14:22,618 --> 01:14:28,028

And the one is Starbuck and Anders

says, "I'm sorry, your whole

:

01:14:28,028 --> 01:14:30,478

deal is not in my, not here.

:

01:14:30,478 --> 01:14:34,188

I, I haven't retrieved anything

of what your fucking problem is."

:

01:14:34,708 --> 01:14:38,438

Just so that they hammer it in, like they

basically look at the camera and they say

:

01:14:38,438 --> 01:14:41,198

to Laura, "We don't think she's a Cylon.

:

01:14:41,268 --> 01:14:42,418

We can't confirm it."

:

01:14:42,798 --> 01:14:47,869

The guy who has the wiki and the

lore, he, he did the uh, Control

:

01:14:47,889 --> 01:14:49,679

F Starbuck and it didn't come up.

:

01:14:50,289 --> 01:14:51,409

It just didn't come up.

:

01:14:53,382 --> 01:14:53,652

Laura: Yeah, I

:

01:14:53,669 --> 01:14:55,749

Ryan: like, "Maybe, maybe someone

hasn't filled that in yet."

:

01:14:56,494 --> 01:14:59,324

Laura: It's like Starbucks

doing the arts, art shit.

:

01:14:59,374 --> 01:14:59,904

But Leoban

:

01:15:00,030 --> 01:15:00,480

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

:

01:15:00,574 --> 01:15:03,514

Laura: to do an art with

her, and I was like, "Okay,

:

01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:04,050

Xhafer: Yeah

:

01:15:04,274 --> 01:15:04,854

Laura: did we…

:

01:15:05,214 --> 01:15:08,774

Is it like Jafar said

and we had some of them?

:

01:15:09,591 --> 01:15:09,991

Ryan: Hmm

:

01:15:10,204 --> 01:15:13,734

Laura: can't make any more of them,

but Leoban's are kinda fucked up too."

:

01:15:15,034 --> 01:15:17,364

And he was kinda standing

there doing, doing the art

:

01:15:17,576 --> 01:15:19,066

Xhafer: What's Leoben's first name?

:

01:15:19,066 --> 01:15:20,006

What's going on there?

:

01:15:20,056 --> 01:15:20,716

I don't know.

:

01:15:21,446 --> 01:15:21,456

Eh.

:

01:15:21,896 --> 01:15:24,706

The, the 13th siloed is

actually just Leoben.

:

01:15:24,822 --> 01:15:26,032

Laura: Yeah, that would be,

:

01:15:26,092 --> 01:15:27,912

Ryan: but with his hair

parted on the other side.

:

01:15:32,058 --> 01:15:33,848

Xhafer: They took what they

could save from the model

:

01:15:34,692 --> 01:15:34,912

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:15:34,912 --> 01:15:36,432

Oh, you know who else is an artist?

:

01:15:36,432 --> 01:15:37,842

Adama builds little ships.

:

01:15:38,865 --> 01:15:39,425

Ryan: That's true.

:

01:15:40,905 --> 01:15:41,735

And it's true.

:

01:15:42,642 --> 01:15:44,522

Laura: Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

:

01:15:44,742 --> 01:15:48,122

I was just like, "Hmm, hmm."

:

01:15:48,492 --> 01:15:50,872

I don't want Gaius to be a Cylon.

:

01:15:51,463 --> 01:15:51,813

I think

:

01:15:51,932 --> 01:15:52,342

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:15:52,553 --> 01:15:54,483

Laura: if he's just a human who sucks.

:

01:15:55,623 --> 01:15:57,833

But I don't know.

:

01:15:58,073 --> 01:15:59,603

I wanna know more about Daniel.

:

01:16:00,583 --> 01:16:02,183

Need to know more about Daniel

:

01:16:03,736 --> 01:16:04,336

Ryan: Damn, Daniel

:

01:16:04,889 --> 01:16:06,279

Laura: Oh, and she does, she

:

01:16:07,119 --> 01:16:09,109

to Boomer about, "You

were close to Daniel."

:

01:16:10,645 --> 01:16:12,975

So I, hmm.

:

01:16:12,978 --> 01:16:15,498

Ryan: And you don't

remember, but hey, I know

:

01:16:16,139 --> 01:16:16,429

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:16:17,619 --> 01:16:17,929

Mm-hmm

:

01:16:18,066 --> 01:16:18,916

Ryan: It, it, yeah

:

01:16:19,456 --> 01:16:23,856

Xhafer: After this we get to Tyrol

showing Adama the real state of the ship.

:

01:16:24,416 --> 01:16:25,506

She's fallen apart.

:

01:16:25,516 --> 01:16:30,306

He, like, the black light on and it's

just glowing everywhere, and you're all

:

01:16:30,306 --> 01:16:32,666

like, "But Baltar's never been down here."

:

01:16:34,297 --> 01:16:37,327

Laura: The bank bus is like

four, four floors that way.

:

01:16:41,214 --> 01:16:41,724

Ryan: Uh.

:

01:16:43,363 --> 01:16:43,923

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:16:44,313 --> 01:16:50,463

He has a solution, which is the Cylons

have some organic resin that will grow

:

01:16:50,463 --> 01:16:52,143

and harden on the bones of the ship.

:

01:16:52,523 --> 01:16:53,173

And Adama's

:

01:16:53,337 --> 01:16:53,857

Ryan: No.

:

01:16:54,013 --> 01:16:54,833

Xhafer: "Grow?"

:

01:16:56,107 --> 01:16:56,987

Ryan: Organic?

:

01:16:57,197 --> 01:16:57,897

No.

:

01:16:58,376 --> 01:16:59,076

Laura: Gross,

:

01:17:00,257 --> 01:17:00,897

Ryan: Gross.

:

01:17:00,927 --> 01:17:01,807

Yucky.

:

01:17:02,196 --> 01:17:02,406

Laura: sticky

:

01:17:03,187 --> 01:17:03,777

Ryan: Icky.

:

01:17:03,847 --> 01:17:04,997

No, thank you.

:

01:17:05,427 --> 01:17:06,067

Yuck.

:

01:17:06,127 --> 01:17:06,837

Not yum-yum.

:

01:17:07,227 --> 01:17:13,837

I like how this ties beautifully into the

Cavill stuff because he's all like, "It

:

01:17:13,837 --> 01:17:15,197

would be better if I was just a robot.

:

01:17:15,217 --> 01:17:17,057

If I was just metal, I would last longer.

:

01:17:17,067 --> 01:17:18,637

Everything would be fine for me."

:

01:17:18,817 --> 01:17:22,057

And then we're literally cutting to the

story about like, ah, that, that also

:

01:17:22,057 --> 01:17:25,747

deteriorates, that also doesn't last,

and maybe the thing that solves that is

:

01:17:25,767 --> 01:17:32,617

merging both ro- like, you know, metal

and organic into one kind of being, like

:

01:17:32,677 --> 01:17:35,867

a Cylon, like a humanoid Cylon like you.

:

01:17:36,287 --> 01:17:41,947

Like, I like that this little subplot

is kind of feeding into that part of the

:

01:17:41,947 --> 01:17:44,047

narrative without being so overt about it.

:

01:17:44,057 --> 01:17:44,437

It's just…

:

01:17:44,907 --> 01:17:46,407

It's like, it's a nice idea.

:

01:17:46,407 --> 01:17:50,527

Like, B- Battlestar always is great

with, like, keeping track of, like,

:

01:17:50,527 --> 01:17:53,267

little details like water, food,

and now they're keeping track of,

:

01:17:53,267 --> 01:17:57,907

like, the ship was old beforehand,

and it's been shot up to shit a lot.

:

01:17:58,187 --> 01:17:59,916

Surely it's falling apart.

:

01:17:59,937 --> 01:18:02,707

And also, it's a nice way of,

you know, getting towards the

:

01:18:02,717 --> 01:18:05,947

end of the series, like let's

literally make the ship fall apart.

:

01:18:06,287 --> 01:18:09,817

But how about the solution or the

potential solution kind of tie into

:

01:18:09,817 --> 01:18:14,637

the interesting sci-fi themes and

messaging that we've had in the

:

01:18:14,637 --> 01:18:16,717

show and specifically this episode?

:

01:18:17,387 --> 01:18:17,787

Laura: Mm-hmm.

:

01:18:18,184 --> 01:18:18,585

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

:

01:18:18,773 --> 01:18:20,264

Ryan: like, "I don't like that though.

:

01:18:21,004 --> 01:18:22,404

I don't like metaphysics."

:

01:18:22,527 --> 01:18:22,997

Laura: bad.

:

01:18:23,017 --> 01:18:24,497

Change bad.

:

01:18:25,018 --> 01:18:26,418

Ryan: I'm gonna storm off to my room.

:

01:18:26,548 --> 01:18:30,118

I hope there's no cracks

there that will trigger me

:

01:18:30,397 --> 01:18:31,787

Laura: I hope it looks fine.

:

01:18:34,035 --> 01:18:35,715

Xhafer: Sam is about to go into surgery.

:

01:18:35,745 --> 01:18:39,615

Kara stays with him, confessing,

confessing she had hoped he had the

:

01:18:39,615 --> 01:18:42,905

answers, and she was like, "I was selfish.

:

01:18:42,905 --> 01:18:44,885

I should've pushed for s- surgery sooner."

:

01:18:45,305 --> 01:18:47,925

And I'm just like, you asked

for it fucking immediately.

:

01:18:47,925 --> 01:18:49,695

You said prep him for surgery.

:

01:18:50,465 --> 01:18:52,755

You did not wait any time here

:

01:18:53,227 --> 01:18:55,747

Laura: but she definitely thought

she was the Seven, and she's

:

01:18:55,747 --> 01:18:58,227

realizing, like, "I'm not a dude.

:

01:18:58,307 --> 01:18:59,197

Oh, no."

:

01:19:00,094 --> 01:19:01,273

Ryan: No, no.

:

01:19:01,541 --> 01:19:02,871

Xhafer: Daniel, that's not

:

01:19:03,144 --> 01:19:03,914

Ryan: Danielle?

:

01:19:04,374 --> 01:19:04,794

Um,

:

01:19:05,351 --> 01:19:05,831

Xhafer: Daniel?

:

01:19:06,193 --> 01:19:06,484

Ryan: ooh

:

01:19:06,941 --> 01:19:07,591

Xhafer: Ooh.

:

01:19:09,081 --> 01:19:10,841

And then Bill gets back to his quarters.

:

01:19:10,841 --> 01:19:13,191

He sees the stress

fractures as he's drinking.

:

01:19:14,151 --> 01:19:19,111

the base ship, Ellen references the

French Revolution on way to her execution

:

01:19:19,807 --> 01:19:23,267

Laura: She is wearing also

a fabulous, like, funeral

:

01:19:23,587 --> 01:19:23,987

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:19:24,447 --> 01:19:29,207

Laura: giving, like, Marie

Antoinette, like, beautiful,

:

01:19:29,377 --> 01:19:29,747

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:19:30,166 --> 01:19:30,807

Laura: thing.

:

01:19:31,346 --> 01:19:32,016

Ryan: Yeah

:

01:19:32,367 --> 01:19:33,577

Laura: I really liked it

:

01:19:34,148 --> 01:19:35,708

Ryan: No, it was, it was very…

:

01:19:35,878 --> 01:19:39,428

They've done a lot of fun

imagery with her in this episode.

:

01:19:39,428 --> 01:19:39,868

I mean,

:

01:19:39,941 --> 01:19:40,361

Laura: Uh-huh.

:

01:19:40,708 --> 01:19:44,528

Ryan: being naked at the beginning in a

very vulnerable state and then her much

:

01:19:44,528 --> 01:19:48,378

more confident and getting these clothes

and, like, even when she's, like, laying

:

01:19:48,388 --> 01:19:52,157

in the space and Cavil gave her, like,

the drink, just the way she accepted

:

01:19:52,157 --> 01:19:53,788

it was very like, "Oh, yes, thank you.

:

01:19:53,788 --> 01:19:54,278

Finally.

:

01:19:54,278 --> 01:19:55,868

I've been, I've been craving this."

:

01:19:55,878 --> 01:19:59,708

Like, there's still, like, these little

hints of the Ellen that we've known but

:

01:19:59,738 --> 01:20:01,378

it's, this is a different character.

:

01:20:01,418 --> 01:20:07,308

And I must admit too, like, I have had

frustrations with BSG when you have an

:

01:20:07,318 --> 01:20:09,238

inf- like, you have a sleeper agent.

:

01:20:09,508 --> 01:20:10,407

Like, that's the story.

:

01:20:10,407 --> 01:20:12,898

Like, "Oh, we have sleeper

agents in our midst.

:

01:20:12,898 --> 01:20:13,688

What do we do?"

:

01:20:14,208 --> 01:20:18,028

And basically no times in the show

have we had, when that sleeper

:

01:20:18,058 --> 01:20:22,588

agent wakes up they, they regain

their original personalities.

:

01:20:22,588 --> 01:20:24,558

That n- that d- that doesn't happen.

:

01:20:25,068 --> 01:20:26,458

Only Ellen has had that.

:

01:20:26,618 --> 01:20:30,568

Only Ellen has been, when we've revealed

they're a Cylon we actually get a diff-

:

01:20:30,598 --> 01:20:32,368

like, oh, this is what they really like.

:

01:20:32,368 --> 01:20:36,348

While the rest of them it's like,

yeah, we already kind of knew what

:

01:20:36,348 --> 01:20:39,668

they were really like they just

also happen to be Cylon as well.

:

01:20:39,678 --> 01:20:44,058

And it's like you kind of want that in

your, "Oh, the sleeper agent has been

:

01:20:44,068 --> 01:20:45,818

woken up and now they're different."

:

01:20:45,945 --> 01:20:46,915

Xhafer: me Italia.

:

01:20:47,007 --> 01:20:47,207

Laura: Mm-hmm.

:

01:20:47,225 --> 01:20:47,705

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:20:47,818 --> 01:20:50,978

Ryan: know, Garibaldi to an extent, you

know, where that was a play on that too.

:

01:20:50,978 --> 01:20:54,248

But like, like, yeah, you kind of

just want that and they don't give

:

01:20:54,248 --> 01:20:56,218

it to you only, but only with Ellen.

:

01:20:56,238 --> 01:21:00,327

They do give it with you with Ellen and

it's, it's fascinating to see play out

:

01:21:00,378 --> 01:21:05,218

and just how she, you know, is using…

:

01:21:05,258 --> 01:21:08,407

Like, you don't know, like, how much of

this is just the, what her personality

:

01:21:08,407 --> 01:21:12,258

is always and how much of it is,

like, she's leaning on what she used

:

01:21:12,258 --> 01:21:13,708

to be like because we do get that.

:

01:21:13,708 --> 01:21:16,128

Like, sh- we, they talk about,

like, how her and Saul had a

:

01:21:16,128 --> 01:21:20,327

fucked up marriage and she's like,

"Yeah, but that's love," you know?

:

01:21:21,398 --> 01:21:24,308

It's like she still doesn't understand

how toxic her fucking love is.

:

01:21:28,981 --> 01:21:33,601

Xhafer: Kara and the

wait outside a med lab.

:

01:21:33,601 --> 01:21:34,921

They say it's been way too long.

:

01:21:34,981 --> 01:21:38,300

Uh, It's been way more than the two

hours Cottle said surgery was gonna take.

:

01:21:38,391 --> 01:21:42,531

But he comes out shortly after

with the bullet, us Sam will live.

:

01:21:43,371 --> 01:21:48,171

Boomer takes Ellen to a Raptor and jumps

her away rather than seeing her executed.

:

01:21:48,877 --> 01:21:52,937

Uh, Nurse Ishay tells Starbuck

nobody is home inside of Sam's head.

:

01:21:52,937 --> 01:21:54,567

He's got no brain activity

:

01:21:54,577 --> 01:21:55,878

Ryan: Nice bedside manner from her

:

01:21:56,825 --> 01:21:57,184

Laura: Oh yeah,

:

01:21:57,337 --> 01:21:58,277

Xhafer: Yeah, 100%.

:

01:21:58,277 --> 01:21:59,587

Well, she learned from Caudle.

:

01:22:00,267 --> 01:22:00,387

Yeah.

:

01:22:00,406 --> 01:22:03,106

Ryan: She's British, so

it's a bit different.

:

01:22:03,295 --> 01:22:09,085

Laura: like, "Dude, tell him he's not the

father," like right in front of Daryl so

:

01:22:11,346 --> 01:22:11,896

Xhafer: Whoops

:

01:22:12,006 --> 01:22:15,323

Ryan: Oh, what, what did you feel,

Laura, about uh, Boomer being like,

:

01:22:15,323 --> 01:22:16,532

"I'm getting the fuck outta here.

:

01:22:16,543 --> 01:22:17,753

Ellen, come with me.

:

01:22:18,032 --> 01:22:18,933

We're leaving"?

:

01:22:20,175 --> 01:22:24,056

Laura: I, I was like,

we, we know that she…

:

01:22:24,066 --> 01:22:29,116

We, we felt she probably got away in

all that Resurrection Hub business.

:

01:22:29,536 --> 01:22:33,161

So to me, I guess, 'cause I was

thinking about it too, we saw a

:

01:22:33,161 --> 01:22:38,050

Cavill get killed while bo- unboxing

Diana, so this Cavill is definitely

:

01:22:38,050 --> 01:22:40,241

different, 'cause he was over here.

:

01:22:40,991 --> 01:22:47,831

Um, but yeah, I was like, "Okay, well,

th- this episode is setting up that

:

01:22:47,831 --> 01:22:49,321

they're gonna show back up," right?

:

01:22:49,771 --> 01:22:50,071

Like

:

01:22:50,512 --> 01:22:53,202

Ryan: Yeah, and uh, but also,

like, for Boomer, she's have,

:

01:22:53,212 --> 01:22:55,062

she's, she's had another heel turn.

:

01:22:55,062 --> 01:22:57,092

Like, she's been paired up with Cavill.

:

01:22:57,092 --> 01:22:57,932

She's been his

:

01:22:58,200 --> 01:22:58,550

Laura: Pet.

:

01:22:59,410 --> 01:23:00,030

Yes.

:

01:23:01,263 --> 01:23:01,603

Xhafer: Yeah

:

01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:02,600

Laura: not

:

01:23:03,019 --> 01:23:04,339

Ryan: yeah, not mine either.

:

01:23:04,339 --> 01:23:07,479

The show's-- And now she's

like, "I'm going to go back."

:

01:23:07,509 --> 01:23:11,669

And it's like, how much of it is

because she's convinced by Ellen, and

:

01:23:11,669 --> 01:23:14,489

how much of it is the show saying,

"Well, she loves Tyrell still"?

:

01:23:14,509 --> 01:23:16,279

Because that's what the

visual language is like.

:

01:23:16,289 --> 01:23:17,179

"Why do I need love?"

:

01:23:17,179 --> 01:23:18,039

Hard cut to Tyrell.

:

01:23:18,039 --> 01:23:20,029

Now, at the end of the episode,

she's like, "I've gotta leave."

:

01:23:20,029 --> 01:23:21,859

It's like, what's she leaving for?

:

01:23:22,327 --> 01:23:22,638

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:23:22,639 --> 01:23:26,729

Ryan: it's like, is, is Boomer

just always gonna be defined by

:

01:23:26,739 --> 01:23:28,919

she does anything because man?

:

01:23:29,598 --> 01:23:33,448

Laura: She she kind of seems

like recency bias, the Cylon.

:

01:23:33,498 --> 01:23:36,888

Like, whoever I talk to

last is the most convincing.

:

01:23:38,395 --> 01:23:40,025

Ryan: Oh, I'd love to

see her talk to Durrell.

:

01:23:41,115 --> 01:23:43,715

What would, what would

she be swayed to do there?

:

01:23:44,484 --> 01:23:45,693

Laura: Jesus, yeah.

:

01:23:45,903 --> 01:23:47,333

Xhafer: move some stuff around,

:

01:23:47,335 --> 01:23:48,245

Ryan: Have you heard about,

:

01:23:48,532 --> 01:23:48,933

Xhafer: they're using

:

01:23:49,075 --> 01:23:51,015

Ryan: have you, have you seen

this thing that we've invented?

:

01:23:51,015 --> 01:23:52,765

It's called a spreadsheet.

:

01:23:54,445 --> 01:23:57,035

Just shows her how to

do an Excel spreadsheet

:

01:23:57,622 --> 01:24:00,922

Laura: Yeah, all of Doral's work is

suddenly being done by all the Sharons.

:

01:24:02,922 --> 01:24:08,022

Yeah, no, I, Boomer has been

the flippy-floppiest character.

:

01:24:08,022 --> 01:24:10,262

Like, we've established Sharons are

:

01:24:10,874 --> 01:24:11,234

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:24:11,924 --> 01:24:13,514

Notoriously flip-floppies

:

01:24:13,743 --> 01:24:15,202

Laura: good at having

:

01:24:15,709 --> 01:24:16,279

Ryan: Convictions?

:

01:24:16,346 --> 01:24:19,796

Laura: a thing that they stick

with, which, yeah, convictions,

:

01:24:20,126 --> 01:24:21,826

like they're just not good at it.

:

01:24:22,605 --> 01:24:27,255

so part of me's like mm, she might have-

:

01:24:27,517 --> 01:24:28,957

Xhafer: Do you think that's on purpose?

:

01:24:29,057 --> 01:24:31,416

Like, that's why they're designed

as, like, a sleeper model

:

01:24:32,226 --> 01:24:32,896

Ryan: Kinda.

:

01:24:32,986 --> 01:24:37,146

But again, I, I love the point of

like, why would you make your super

:

01:24:37,146 --> 01:24:39,946

secret sleeper model depressed?

:

01:24:40,046 --> 01:24:41,666

Like, all of them are depressed.

:

01:24:41,666 --> 01:24:42,946

Like, that's not very good

:

01:24:43,481 --> 01:24:44,141

Laura: Mm-hmm.

:

01:24:44,146 --> 01:24:45,226

Ryan: what you need.

:

01:24:45,696 --> 01:24:47,216

They are all depressed

:

01:24:48,431 --> 01:24:51,481

Laura: It'll be interesting when

she shows back up at Galactica.

:

01:24:51,601 --> 01:24:55,441

Like, I feel like there's a very

good chance that the Cavils are

:

01:24:55,441 --> 01:24:57,561

gonna be hot on them heels, though.

:

01:24:57,740 --> 01:24:58,250

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

01:25:00,250 --> 01:25:00,820

Yeah

:

01:25:00,867 --> 01:25:05,577

Laura: got a bug in it or

a beacon, a homing device

:

01:25:06,047 --> 01:25:07,037

Xhafer: Something.

:

01:25:08,106 --> 01:25:10,046

And we'll probably find out soon.

:

01:25:10,339 --> 01:25:12,398

but we've got one last

note on this episode.

:

01:25:12,398 --> 01:25:15,799

The button on the episode is Adama

calling up Tigh and telling him

:

01:25:15,799 --> 01:25:17,239

to do what he has to to save the

:

01:25:17,442 --> 01:25:17,672

Ryan: Oh.

:

01:25:19,267 --> 01:25:19,787

Laura: Which

:

01:25:19,912 --> 01:25:20,762

Ryan: he conceded.

:

01:25:21,902 --> 01:25:22,252

Mm-hmm

:

01:25:24,442 --> 01:25:24,892

Oh, come on.

:

01:25:24,892 --> 01:25:27,132

Don't you wanna, don't you

want the show to have like…

:

01:25:27,152 --> 01:25:30,952

And the Battlestar Galactica itself

becomes all fleshy on the inside

:

01:25:33,067 --> 01:25:40,737

Xhafer: There is, this storyline leads

to a moment, I don't even remember if

:

01:25:40,737 --> 01:25:46,307

it's, like, how called out the moment

is, but for some reason it's just, like,

:

01:25:46,307 --> 01:25:50,327

been mer- burned into my memory banks

since the first watching of the show.

:

01:25:51,137 --> 01:25:57,017

And we're approaching it, and I

will say when we get there, but ugh.

:

01:25:58,077 --> 01:26:01,657

Yeah, there's one that's just

like a punch in the gut coming up

:

01:26:01,948 --> 01:26:02,238

Ryan: What?

:

01:26:02,448 --> 01:26:03,218

No.

:

01:26:03,657 --> 01:26:04,808

Are you sure?

:

01:26:05,061 --> 01:26:08,441

Xhafer: and it's, like,

it's not even w- it's a

:

01:26:08,772 --> 01:26:09,582

Ryan: Oh, okay.

:

01:26:10,212 --> 01:26:10,432

Now y-

:

01:26:11,231 --> 01:26:11,611

Xhafer: It's

:

01:26:11,947 --> 01:26:18,107

Laura: so if the ship gets organic

material over it and it gets, it becomes

:

01:26:18,107 --> 01:26:20,587

fleshy, does it also become moist inside?

:

01:26:20,587 --> 01:26:23,337

I feel like every time

we see an organic ship in

:

01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:23,930

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

:

01:26:24,177 --> 01:26:24,627

Laura: also very moist.

:

01:26:25,470 --> 01:26:25,930

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:26:26,650 --> 01:26:27,000

Yeah.

:

01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:28,850

Ellen's gonna be so thrilled.

:

01:26:28,860 --> 01:26:30,820

She's like, "Mm, yes.

:

01:26:32,330 --> 01:26:33,350

Can I fuck this one?"

:

01:26:33,870 --> 01:26:34,550

Um, yeah.

:

01:26:35,140 --> 01:26:36,820

Oh, I miss this messy bitch.

:

01:26:36,850 --> 01:26:39,770

This was uh, this was a

glorious, fun episode.

:

01:26:40,010 --> 01:26:42,740

Very entertaining episode,

very thought-provoking.

:

01:26:42,740 --> 01:26:46,220

And, you know, it's very hard to

balance, like, here's the episode

:

01:26:46,220 --> 01:26:48,270

where we just explain a bunch of stuff.

:

01:26:48,650 --> 01:26:53,480

Like, here's where we just dump,

like, a bunch of stuff because we

:

01:26:53,480 --> 01:26:54,840

have to because the show's ending.

:

01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:56,910

We can't just pussyfoot around anymore.

:

01:26:57,330 --> 01:27:01,740

It's very difficult to get that balance

of is this just a lore dump episode?

:

01:27:01,770 --> 01:27:03,809

But I think there's enough

character stuff in here

:

01:27:04,411 --> 01:27:05,061

Laura: Yeah.

:

01:27:05,241 --> 01:27:05,781

Yeah.

:

01:27:06,141 --> 01:27:06,891

I liked it.

:

01:27:07,032 --> 01:27:07,333

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:27:07,912 --> 01:27:10,541

All right, well, if you did like

it, you should probably rate it.

:

01:27:11,012 --> 01:27:15,782

So how'd you feel about this one on a

scale of 1 to 13 secret Cylon models?

:

01:27:16,970 --> 01:27:18,120

Laura: Ryan, you have to go first.

:

01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:18,350

You're the guest

:

01:27:19,169 --> 01:27:19,489

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:27:19,762 --> 01:27:20,642

Xhafer: That's the rules

:

01:27:21,269 --> 01:27:21,919

Ryan: I loved it.

:

01:27:22,009 --> 01:27:22,859

Of course I did.

:

01:27:22,929 --> 01:27:23,949

I love Ellen.

:

01:27:23,989 --> 01:27:30,029

I love the choice of flashing back to her

and seeing her in the different periods

:

01:27:30,029 --> 01:27:32,329

of the show since she's been absent.

:

01:27:32,809 --> 01:27:38,049

I think all of the conversations

about what it is to be human,

:

01:27:38,049 --> 01:27:41,829

what it is to believe in God,

all of that stuff is wonderful.

:

01:27:42,199 --> 01:27:46,769

Cavil is a fascinating character and

Dean Stockwell is marvelous in the role.

:

01:27:46,779 --> 01:27:52,079

And, you know, I think in a modern

lens, this episode is interesting

:

01:27:52,079 --> 01:27:54,739

to think about in multiple ways.

:

01:27:54,739 --> 01:27:57,139

Like, I, I, I think there's a way that…

:

01:27:57,559 --> 01:28:05,509

Like, I would love to read a thesis

paper or hear a review about the trans

:

01:28:05,509 --> 01:28:10,159

reading of this episode because there's

so many moments in this where Cavil's

:

01:28:10,189 --> 01:28:16,049

basically saying, "I don't feel like I'm,

like, I'm supposed to be in this body.

:

01:28:16,159 --> 01:28:17,549

I should be something different."

:

01:28:17,599 --> 01:28:22,279

And he's met with his parent

saying, "No, you're wrong.

:

01:28:22,568 --> 01:28:24,259

I created you this way.

:

01:28:24,349 --> 01:28:25,769

You're supposed to be a boy."

:

01:28:26,429 --> 01:28:28,129

And the, and it does

really feel like that.

:

01:28:28,129 --> 01:28:31,059

And, like, even calling him by John, he's

like, "I don't wanna be called that."

:

01:28:31,339 --> 01:28:32,449

And she's like, "I don't care.

:

01:28:32,659 --> 01:28:33,669

That's what I've named you.

:

01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:34,609

You're, you're mine.

:

01:28:34,619 --> 01:28:38,509

You're an extension of me, and I'm

gonna triple down on that this is God's

:

01:28:38,509 --> 01:28:39,999

design and God's purpose for you."

:

01:28:39,999 --> 01:28:43,339

I think there's an interesting way of

looking at this episode from a, from

:

01:28:43,339 --> 01:28:48,269

a LGBTQ+ lens, and that was something

that really caught me off guard.

:

01:28:48,269 --> 01:28:49,879

I don't think it's

something they intended.

:

01:28:49,949 --> 01:28:51,359

I, I really don't get that.

:

01:28:51,398 --> 01:28:55,729

Um, but it's something that makes this

episode interesting in a modern way

:

01:28:55,729 --> 01:29:00,059

because also I'm coming at this, you know,

I've seen it when it initially aired.

:

01:29:00,059 --> 01:29:04,209

I'm no longer wowed by the,

"Oh, the mystery box is finally

:

01:29:04,209 --> 01:29:05,648

answering things," da, da, da.

:

01:29:05,648 --> 01:29:06,568

What else is there?

:

01:29:07,089 --> 01:29:11,729

And there's lots of character things

like that that is either intentional

:

01:29:11,729 --> 01:29:15,249

or not, but it adds a lot of flavor

and it gives you something to chew on.

:

01:29:15,699 --> 01:29:18,439

So I give this a 12 overall.

:

01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,449

I don't give it the full 13

because uh, there are some elements

:

01:29:21,449 --> 01:29:25,969

that I feel drag and also I just

hated that scene with Six and Ty.

:

01:29:25,979 --> 01:29:26,789

It's just gross.

:

01:29:26,818 --> 01:29:29,398

I don't like that the

show's not aware it's gross.

:

01:29:29,898 --> 01:29:33,239

The show's aware when certain things

are gross and then really not with

:

01:29:33,249 --> 01:29:35,519

other things and it really befuddles me.

:

01:29:35,519 --> 01:29:35,809

It's like…

:

01:29:37,369 --> 01:29:40,818

It's like they even reference in

this episode in a way like, "Oh, the

:

01:29:40,818 --> 01:29:43,849

Cylons need to force breed things."

:

01:29:43,849 --> 01:29:46,699

And it's like, "Oh, so you are

aware that it's weird, right?"

:

01:29:47,249 --> 01:29:49,019

And then other times it's

like, "No, it's sweet."

:

01:29:49,865 --> 01:29:53,125

Laura: Yeah, no, Jafer and I definitely

have had that conversation of, like,

:

01:29:54,005 --> 01:29:58,165

"Wow, we were not thinking about

how gross this was at this time."

:

01:29:58,165 --> 01:30:01,505

Like, 20 years later, we're

sitting here going, guys.

:

01:30:01,505 --> 01:30:01,775

Yikes

:

01:30:01,791 --> 01:30:02,312

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:30:03,112 --> 01:30:06,952

And, you know, this episode too

is, it, it depends your view.

:

01:30:07,912 --> 01:30:12,012

Sci-fi, sci-fi allegory is very difficult,

especially when you make a race a

:

01:30:12,012 --> 01:30:16,442

sci-fi allegory, and the Sylens have

always been fucking messy when you try

:

01:30:16,442 --> 01:30:21,012

to map them onto anything in the real

world because it doesn't fully track.

:

01:30:21,462 --> 01:30:26,502

It's like you want to think of them as

slaves, but then also they are oppressors.

:

01:30:26,522 --> 01:30:27,832

It's like, okay, there's a dialogue there.

:

01:30:27,842 --> 01:30:31,012

It's like, oh, but you should feel

sorry for these people, people.

:

01:30:31,032 --> 01:30:32,332

You should think of them as people.

:

01:30:32,672 --> 01:30:37,502

You should feel sorry for them, but also

they completely genocided the human race.

:

01:30:37,512 --> 01:30:42,232

The remainder that they found, they

put in farms and sexually abused them.

:

01:30:42,232 --> 01:30:44,882

Like, and then we're supposed to

turn around and be like, "Hmm, but

:

01:30:44,882 --> 01:30:46,692

aren't they the victim too in a way?"

:

01:30:46,692 --> 01:30:48,772

It's like, ah, it's kinda hard to…

:

01:30:48,782 --> 01:30:53,662

It kinda gets messy and messy, and

this episode kind of w- like splashes

:

01:30:53,662 --> 01:30:57,872

around in that messiness and actually

addresses, "Yeah, we didn't think

:

01:30:57,872 --> 01:31:00,252

this through, and it's fucking messy."

:

01:31:00,572 --> 01:31:04,472

And here's our characters trying

to justify why it isn't, and in the

:

01:31:04,472 --> 01:31:08,472

end, the answer is, "No, it, it's a

big sloppy thing that we've created

:

01:31:08,472 --> 01:31:10,502

here, and let's just keep going."

:

01:31:10,907 --> 01:31:16,507

Laura: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna give

it an 11 just 'cause I, I don't know,

:

01:31:16,507 --> 01:31:19,987

I haven't hit-- I don't think I've

hit 12 that often in this season.

:

01:31:20,227 --> 01:31:20,957

I don't know.

:

01:31:21,325 --> 01:31:21,725

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:31:21,757 --> 01:31:23,657

Laura: notes, but I don't, 'cause why?

:

01:31:23,996 --> 01:31:24,866

Xhafer: Meh, fair enough

:

01:31:26,118 --> 01:31:27,588

Laura: But I really liked it a lot, too.

:

01:31:27,688 --> 01:31:31,848

I honestly was not bothered by any of

Anders just telling me what's going

:

01:31:31,848 --> 01:31:35,378

on, 'cause the second we brought up

Daniel, I was like, "What the fuck?

:

01:31:35,418 --> 01:31:36,938

I need to know all about Daniel."

:

01:31:37,969 --> 01:31:38,309

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:31:39,714 --> 01:31:40,144

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:31:40,309 --> 01:31:43,009

Ryan: you watching this and just

fist pumping going, "I nailed it.

:

01:31:43,009 --> 01:31:43,709

I nailed it.

:

01:31:43,839 --> 01:31:44,559

Yes."

:

01:31:45,144 --> 01:31:47,454

Xhafer: I got a text at

1:30 in the morning that was

:

01:31:47,454 --> 01:31:48,704

just all like, "Called it!"

:

01:31:48,773 --> 01:31:50,094

That's all it said, all

:

01:31:50,189 --> 01:31:54,349

Ryan: I, I absolutely adore that if you

listen back, we should really create a,

:

01:31:54,568 --> 01:31:58,909

a montage you know, clip shows of all the

time Laura was like, "Ellen's a Cylon,"

:

01:31:58,909 --> 01:32:00,749

and then going, "No, that can't be right.

:

01:32:00,749 --> 01:32:02,249

We can't have two blondes."

:

01:32:04,129 --> 01:32:04,559

"We can't…

:

01:32:04,589 --> 01:32:07,769

No, no, she can't be a Cylon

because she's an alcoholic.

:

01:32:08,299 --> 01:32:11,059

Like, you c- she can't be a

Cylon because I like her now."

:

01:32:11,499 --> 01:32:16,219

I l- absolutely adore the journey of

Ellen Tigh being this hated character

:

01:32:16,419 --> 01:32:20,119

to then you in the season three

being like, "Hey, you know what?

:

01:32:20,829 --> 01:32:21,549

I like her now.

:

01:32:21,549 --> 01:32:23,169

I feel so sorry for this woman.

:

01:32:23,429 --> 01:32:27,409

Too bad she's dead, and now she's back,"

and she's like, "I'm a big cunt again."

:

01:32:28,869 --> 01:32:33,239

"But I'm, I'm a n- but I'm a new flavor

of it, so welcome back to my world.

:

01:32:36,991 --> 01:32:40,071

Xhafer: She's, she's got

real I'm the mom of the year

:

01:32:40,144 --> 01:32:40,434

Ryan: Mm-hmm

:

01:32:41,661 --> 01:32:44,901

Xhafer: Uh, I don't know how else

:

01:32:44,922 --> 01:32:46,752

Ryan: Her and the mum from

Carrie would be friends

:

01:32:47,723 --> 01:32:48,213

Laura: Yeah, she's

:

01:32:48,451 --> 01:32:48,931

Xhafer: Yeah

:

01:32:48,983 --> 01:32:51,293

Laura: "I've never made a

mistake in my life," mom.

:

01:32:51,343 --> 01:32:51,923

Which is like, eh.

:

01:32:54,021 --> 01:32:54,550

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

:

01:32:55,543 --> 01:32:58,393

Laura: that's cons- see, there's

maybe eight of them hanging around.

:

01:32:58,473 --> 01:33:00,362

Uh, Yeah, I,

:

01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:00,830

Xhafer: Yeah

:

01:33:01,522 --> 01:33:02,092

Laura: I like her.

:

01:33:02,092 --> 01:33:03,412

I'm glad she's back.

:

01:33:03,412 --> 01:33:05,552

I'm hoping we get her for the…

:

01:33:05,592 --> 01:33:06,532

What, what do we have left?

:

01:33:06,532 --> 01:33:07,862

Four episodes at this point?

:

01:33:08,142 --> 01:33:09,072

Or is it still five?

:

01:33:09,196 --> 01:33:10,086

Xhafer: Five episodes,

:

01:33:10,183 --> 01:33:11,163

Ryan: final five?

:

01:33:11,446 --> 01:33:14,786

Xhafer: the, the final five episodes, yes.

:

01:33:15,556 --> 01:33:16,326

sure that's what the…

:

01:33:16,336 --> 01:33:20,696

God, I can hear the, the All American

Rejects playing in the background from the

:

01:33:20,891 --> 01:33:21,321

Ryan: Yeah

:

01:33:21,376 --> 01:33:21,696

Xhafer: era.

:

01:33:22,136 --> 01:33:27,355

Um, and uh, yeah, five episodes left, but

they are a bit extended length towards

:

01:33:27,402 --> 01:33:27,682

Ryan: Mm-hmm

:

01:33:27,725 --> 01:33:28,125

Xhafer: so

:

01:33:28,175 --> 01:33:28,735

Laura: mind.

:

01:33:29,505 --> 01:33:33,005

Xhafer: like, it's like six episodes

of content in five episodes.

:

01:33:33,475 --> 01:33:33,855

Laura: All right

:

01:33:34,115 --> 01:33:38,590

Xhafer: A, a 12 or a, a

10 out of uh, 12 is my

:

01:33:38,665 --> 01:33:38,855

Ryan: Okay

:

01:33:39,090 --> 01:33:39,280

Xhafer: The…

:

01:33:39,730 --> 01:33:41,510

I- all the things Ryan said I agree with.

:

01:33:41,559 --> 01:33:42,350

Yeah, there we go.

:

01:33:42,750 --> 01:33:43,650

Anyways done.

:

01:33:43,660 --> 01:33:44,130

Nailed it.

:

01:33:44,230 --> 01:33:44,700

Expert.

:

01:33:44,945 --> 01:33:46,475

Ryan: is like, "Ryan took all my points.

:

01:33:46,475 --> 01:33:46,875

How dare he?"

:

01:33:46,875 --> 01:33:46,905

Fuck

:

01:33:48,718 --> 01:33:50,058

Xhafer: No, it's why we, it's,

:

01:33:50,152 --> 01:33:50,232

Laura: the

:

01:33:50,478 --> 01:33:50,827

Xhafer: we,

:

01:33:50,843 --> 01:33:51,193

Ryan: Thank you.

:

01:33:51,202 --> 01:33:51,213

Aw

:

01:33:51,228 --> 01:33:54,368

Xhafer: have guests so that I

don't have to talk as much, right?

:

01:33:54,418 --> 01:33:55,978

That's, that's, that's the goal.

:

01:33:56,868 --> 01:33:57,468

And we…

:

01:33:58,298 --> 01:33:58,688

Fuck.

:

01:33:58,988 --> 01:34:01,478

Anyways Ryan been lovely having

you on the podcast again.

:

01:34:02,278 --> 01:34:04,208

Where can the people find

you if they wanna hear more?

:

01:34:04,321 --> 01:34:04,491

Ryan: Wow.

:

01:34:04,511 --> 01:34:08,521

You're all screaming and shouting,

smashing your fists on the table

:

01:34:08,521 --> 01:34:10,241

saying, "More, more, more."

:

01:34:10,841 --> 01:34:12,351

Uh, More Ryan.

:

01:34:12,398 --> 01:34:13,077

Xhafer: Yum,

:

01:34:13,281 --> 01:34:15,151

Ryan: Yum Yum Podcast, yeah.

:

01:34:15,198 --> 01:34:15,838

Xhafer: yum,

:

01:34:15,871 --> 01:34:18,621

Ryan: Yum Yum Yum Yum Podcast

is the greatest place.

:

01:34:18,651 --> 01:34:20,231

You can search it up on the internet.

:

01:34:20,231 --> 01:34:21,671

We're on all of those places.

:

01:34:21,691 --> 01:34:24,841

We're on all of the podcasting

sites, all of the social medias.

:

01:34:25,431 --> 01:34:26,981

We have a Patreon as well.

:

01:34:26,991 --> 01:34:32,541

We actually did our thoughts on Battlestar

Galactica, my wife and I uh, the hosts.

:

01:34:32,541 --> 01:34:35,332

And Rachel had never seen

Battlestar Galactica, so we did

:

01:34:35,332 --> 01:34:36,710

uh, we just randomly watched it.

:

01:34:36,781 --> 01:34:38,681

I was like, "Hey, I got this DVD set.

:

01:34:38,681 --> 01:34:39,521

Let's give it a watch."

:

01:34:39,571 --> 01:34:40,571

And then we talked about it.

:

01:34:40,571 --> 01:34:43,181

So if you wanna hear more of our

thoughts, that's on our Patreon.

:

01:34:43,181 --> 01:34:50,311

But at the moment, on our main feed, we're

on the final season of Killjoys, a Syfy

:

01:34:50,311 --> 01:34:56,161

Channel series about a bunch of ragtag

bounty hunters who have stumbled across

:

01:34:56,191 --> 01:34:59,231

an intergalactic conspiracy, and it's fun.

:

01:34:59,231 --> 01:35:02,341

It's a really good time,

wonderful characters.

:

01:35:02,781 --> 01:35:04,911

Original series, like it's

not based on anything.

:

01:35:04,911 --> 01:35:06,300

It's just its own thing.

:

01:35:06,311 --> 01:35:10,341

It's a show created by Michelle

Lovretta, who did Lost Girl, which

:

01:35:10,341 --> 01:35:13,130

was a very popular show with some

people that I've still yet to watch.

:

01:35:13,151 --> 01:35:15,630

But no, we've been

having a blast with that.

:

01:35:15,671 --> 01:35:20,201

It's -- the fun thing about it is we

did The Expanse a little while ago, and

:

01:35:20,201 --> 01:35:24,271

now we're doing Killjoys, and you get to

see a bunch of the same actors just in

:

01:35:24,271 --> 01:35:26,130

these shows 'cause it's all Canadians.

:

01:35:26,181 --> 01:35:28,630

So you get to see, "Hey,

it's, it's that guy.

:

01:35:28,651 --> 01:35:32,001

They're playing this role," and, "Oh,

this character doesn't appear again

:

01:35:32,001 --> 01:35:36,471

because that guy went on to play Marco

in The Expanse, so he wasn't available."

:

01:35:36,471 --> 01:35:41,707

Like, this is just kind of the fun

of uh, the mid-:

:

01:35:41,707 --> 01:35:45,241

fiction television and uh, we've

been having a blast, so everyone

:

01:35:45,241 --> 01:35:46,751

make sure to check us out.

:

01:35:46,761 --> 01:35:51,197

And uh, yeah, w- we hope at some point in

the future to, to have you both on again.

:

01:35:51,197 --> 01:35:55,737

We've had you both as guests in the

past covering random episodes of B5.

:

01:35:55,777 --> 01:35:57,017

I think the -- I can't remember.

:

01:35:57,017 --> 01:35:58,887

Was the last one we did Day of the Dead?

:

01:35:59,637 --> 01:36:01,317

That's an aged, like, fine wine.

:

01:36:01,387 --> 01:36:01,987

Xhafer: Yes.

:

01:36:02,047 --> 01:36:02,847

Ryan: like, fine wine

:

01:36:03,207 --> 01:36:03,757

Xhafer: Yeah.

:

01:36:04,183 --> 01:36:07,543

uh, you guested on our Day of the Dead

and we guested on your Day of the Dead.

:

01:36:08,343 --> 01:36:09,763

then I did an episode of

:

01:36:10,032 --> 01:36:10,692

Ryan: That's right.

:

01:36:10,743 --> 01:36:11,483

Xhafer: there too.

:

01:36:11,732 --> 01:36:12,702

Ryan: What an episode of it.

:

01:36:12,712 --> 01:36:14,212

W- what an episode it was

:

01:36:14,706 --> 01:36:17,675

Xhafer: But yeah uh, he- would be

happy to be back on, and everyone

:

01:36:17,675 --> 01:36:19,476

should go give Yum Yum a listen.

:

01:36:19,916 --> 01:36:24,606

Next week we've got season

four, episode 16, "Deadlock."

:

01:36:25,456 --> 01:36:30,296

we'll be joined by Emmy winner

Elliot Blake, executive producer

:

01:36:30,306 --> 01:36:35,056

on Sisters Grimm and uh, the

Audible original series Moriarty.

:

01:36:35,066 --> 01:36:38,066

He's gonna be talking to us about

his new book, Into the Great.

:

01:36:38,330 --> 01:36:38,660

Laura: Yeah

:

01:36:38,716 --> 01:36:41,226

Xhafer: And also we'll be talking about

this episode of Battlestar Galactica,

:

01:36:41,255 --> 01:36:44,106

and I'll probably ask him what it's

like to work with Ben Kingsley, because

:

01:36:44,106 --> 01:36:45,546

that guy just seems like such a fucking

:

01:36:45,663 --> 01:36:47,003

Ryan: Sir Ben Kingsley, please.

:

01:36:47,753 --> 01:36:50,163

You, you, you don't, you

don't ca- just call him Ben.

:

01:36:52,163 --> 01:36:52,823

Xhafer: All right.

:

01:36:52,923 --> 01:36:56,866

Ellen escapes from Cavil only to

face a momentous choice regarding the

:

01:36:56,866 --> 01:37:00,056

13th tribe and the final five Cylons.

:

01:37:00,106 --> 01:37:00,876

That's all you get

:

01:37:02,752 --> 01:37:04,121

Ryan: Whoa, crazy

:

01:37:04,851 --> 01:37:06,011

Laura: Sounds like someone might

:

01:37:06,106 --> 01:37:06,505

Xhafer: Did it…

:

01:37:08,505 --> 01:37:11,416

Ryan: Ellen just comes aboard and

says, "Lee, I should be president.

:

01:37:12,895 --> 01:37:13,875

It should be me.

:

01:37:14,535 --> 01:37:17,245

My first rule is that

we should all have mogs

:

01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:19,700

Laura: Hell yes.

:

01:37:19,750 --> 01:37:22,670

President Marks for president, yeah.

:

01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:29,100

No I wish I had kept count now of

Jafer had once told me, like, how many

:

01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:32,670

different presidents were gonna be

in the show, and I did not write that

:

01:37:32,670 --> 01:37:37,080

down, and I don't remember, and I have

no idea if we've hit president count.

:

01:37:37,639 --> 01:37:40,139

Ryan: Who are you voting

for in the:

:

01:37:40,309 --> 01:37:44,609

Lee Ellen Tai, or Anders?

:

01:37:45,029 --> 01:37:46,559

The Anders, that's a vegetable.

:

01:37:46,699 --> 01:37:48,009

That's-- We have to specify.

:

01:37:48,284 --> 01:37:50,124

Xhafer: we've had three?

:

01:37:50,494 --> 01:37:51,834

Yeah, we've, yeah.

:

01:37:51,834 --> 01:37:53,314

Rosalind, Zarek…

:

01:37:53,611 --> 01:37:53,841

Laura: Lee

:

01:37:53,963 --> 01:37:54,683

Xhafer: Gaius

:

01:37:54,734 --> 01:37:55,564

Ryan: Lee was president

:

01:37:55,773 --> 01:37:58,473

Xhafer: and Lee was acting president,

so we're at four presidents right now?

:

01:37:58,523 --> 01:37:58,763

Okay

:

01:37:59,032 --> 01:37:59,362

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:37:59,642 --> 01:38:00,252

Something to think about

:

01:38:00,401 --> 01:38:04,951

Laura: reason, five sticks in my mind, but

I don't know that that's what you said, so

:

01:38:04,976 --> 01:38:05,516

Ryan: Hmm.

:

01:38:06,549 --> 01:38:08,629

Xhafer: I do know what I said, but I'm not

:

01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:09,940

Ryan: The number f-

:

01:38:10,079 --> 01:38:10,469

Xhafer: not gonna

:

01:38:10,550 --> 01:38:14,370

Ryan: the number five being

important in Battlestar Galactica?

:

01:38:14,469 --> 01:38:16,110

No, that can't be.

:

01:38:16,300 --> 01:38:16,889

No, that can't be

:

01:38:17,661 --> 01:38:20,641

Xhafer: They wouldn't make a

stretch like that happen at the

:

01:38:20,641 --> 01:38:24,741

last possible minute just to satisfy

their own egotistical desires.

:

01:38:25,011 --> 01:38:25,721

Not in this

:

01:38:25,762 --> 01:38:28,302

Ryan: The next the next president

in Battlestar is actually

:

01:38:28,312 --> 01:38:30,121

George Martin, the fifth Beatle.

:

01:38:30,232 --> 01:38:33,552

He just walks in and he's like,

"Yeah, it's me," and we all cheer

:

01:38:34,588 --> 01:38:35,038

Xhafer: All right.

:

01:38:35,038 --> 01:38:36,648

Well, we'll be back with that next week.

:

01:38:36,918 --> 01:38:39,118

But before we get there, we gotta

say thanks to Jeremy Siegel.

:

01:38:39,438 --> 01:38:40,898

Jeremy, thanks for doing our theme music.

:

01:38:41,028 --> 01:38:44,148

Uh, You can find more of Jeremy's

work at jeremysiegel42.bandcamp.com

:

01:38:44,261 --> 01:38:47,201

Laura: thanks to Angry Deck Time Machine

on Instagram for the podcast artwork

:

01:38:47,626 --> 01:38:50,406

Xhafer: Aaron, thanks for editing

this podcast and making us sound

:

01:38:50,416 --> 01:38:54,556

like coherent individuals instead

of rambling word salad messes.

:

01:38:54,585 --> 01:38:55,576

We appreciate you.

:

01:38:56,391 --> 01:38:58,371

Laura: Taking out all the aphasia for us.

:

01:38:58,380 --> 01:38:59,050

Cut, cut, cut.

:

01:38:59,921 --> 01:39:01,901

Yeah, and thanks listener for being here.

:

01:39:02,130 --> 01:39:08,341

If you wanna talk more about what's

just happened and how great Ellen Tye

:

01:39:08,341 --> 01:39:12,630

is, you get on down in the Discord,

and I just know that Ryan wants

:

01:39:12,630 --> 01:39:14,710

to hear your thesis on Ellen Tye.

:

01:39:15,103 --> 01:39:15,334

Ryan: Yeah.

:

01:39:15,814 --> 01:39:19,794

Come into, come to the Discord, join

in the spoiler chat section and we

:

01:39:19,794 --> 01:39:22,914

can all have a good laugh at all the

things that we talked about today

:

01:39:23,535 --> 01:39:23,615

Xhafer: 100%.

:

01:39:23,615 --> 01:39:25,175

All right, we'll see

you next week, internet

All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Who Are You?

About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.