Episode 46

full
Published on:

21st Sep 2022

S2E19 - Armageddon on Purpose

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

JMS puts out the call to break the internet in support of the B5 Reboot as Laura and Xhafer discuss their fan-casting for Londo and G'Kar. You don't want to miss a thing as the Narn-Centauri war reaches its devastating conclusion in Babylon 5 Season 2 Episode 19, The Long, Twilight Struggle.

#B5onCWin23

Transcript
Laura:

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

Laura:

It's a Babylon five watch cast by a couple of former strangers.

Laura:

Now friends who are continuing to get to know each other.

Laura:

Over one of their favorite shows from their childhood Babylon five.

Laura:

I am Laura.

Xhafer:

And I'm.

Laura:

And today we're doing a little bit different stuff.

Laura:

With all the uh, exciting.

Laura:

Reboot Twitter that's been happening today.

Xhafer:

Today was reboot Twitter, mageddon.

Xhafer:

It was crazy.

Xhafer:

so we are recording this on September 19th.

Xhafer:

This is going to come out a couple days later.

Xhafer:

But yesterday, Joseph Sinskey tweeted.

Xhafer:

Saying that he's never asked for the help of the Babylon five community

Xhafer:

in the 22 years of the show.

Xhafer:

It's history and that he was going to be asking today.

Xhafer:

And then today around 11:00 AM.

Xhafer:

I think it was, he's all like, I need to prove that there's actually

Xhafer:

interest in this show to Warner brothers TV, because they don't

Xhafer:

believe that there is, we need to make.

Xhafer:

Babylon five.

Xhafer:

In 2023 on the CW trending, there was a, there's a much

Xhafer:

more concise hashtag than that.

Laura:

Yeah, hashtag on CW 23, I think.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That's that sounds right.

Xhafer:

Which we did it.

Xhafer:

A lot of people treated it.

Xhafer:

It was the number one thing on Twitter for a number of hours today.

Xhafer:

Including beating out.

Xhafer:

The Queen's funeral while it was happening.

Laura:

Very

Xhafer:

blows my mind.

Xhafer:

And it was number two in the UK.

Xhafer:

To the Queen's funeral, and it was trending in other

Xhafer:

parts of the globe as well.

Xhafer:

Twitter was crazy.

Xhafer:

I was actually on the Twitter for most of Manning the, who are you account?

Xhafer:

And besides some conversations with some other Babylon five podcasters.

Xhafer:

which we are going to probably be joining some other ones for

Xhafer:

a bonus episode of some variety.

Xhafer:

I don't really, we don't really have feel like I've got a good

Xhafer:

feel what's going on with it, but it will probably be coming out.

Xhafer:

Before this knowing turnaround times and some of those guys.

Xhafer:

We'll be joining a number of other Babylon, five podcasters

Xhafer:

to talk about the reboot.

Xhafer:

And what it means and stuff like that.

Xhafer:

Literacy.

Xhafer:

So that's cool too.

Xhafer:

We're going to do that after we record this episode.

Laura:

I'm excited.

Xhafer:

But with all this reboot news.

Xhafer:

We decided it would be fun to do some more recasting cause we

Xhafer:

haven't done that in a little while.

Xhafer:

And given the episode, head of us season two, episode 19,

Xhafer:

the long Twilight struggle.

Xhafer:

Which is out of order, he might think that's out of order.

Xhafer:

It is.

Xhafer:

It is actually out of order.

Xhafer:

HBO.

Xhafer:

Max has this one in the next one.

Xhafer:

Flipped.

Xhafer:

There's actual plot implication.

Xhafer:

It's not a huge, but it is in

Xhafer:

But it's, this is one of the most Alondo in Chicago episodes.

Xhafer:

There are.

Laura:

this is very heavy on those two.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it seems very appropriate to recast those two roles today.

Laura:

Yeah, just the two biggest roles in the show.

Laura:

No problem.

Laura:

We got this.

Xhafer:

It's two, definitely two of the most important to

Xhafer:

the most endearing characters.

Xhafer:

And to have the.

Xhafer:

Most important performances like.

Xhafer:

It's easy to like.

Xhafer:

Look at sometimes I don't say sometimes acting's an easy

Xhafer:

job, but they're definitely.

Xhafer:

The differently parts that are harder than

Laura:

Sure.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And these are two incredibly nuanced characters.

Xhafer:

That you need to bring a lot to, to be able to pull it

Xhafer:

off.

Laura:

For sure.

Xhafer:

So I've got I've got three sets for my dream casting and

Xhafer:

they're all absolutely outrageous and will never happen for the CW.

Laura:

I only have one set, but it will also never happen.

Xhafer:

And the main thing.

Xhafer:

I was looking for.

Xhafer:

Was on-screen chemistry between the two actors.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

I picked.

Xhafer:

Three sets of actors that have all worked together in other stuff before.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

And had.

Xhafer:

A similar.

Xhafer:

Antagonistic, but also friendship kind of layer in that relationship

Xhafer:

in their previous work.

Xhafer:

And sometimes it's more antagonistic than others.

Xhafer:

Sometimes it's more friendship than others.

Xhafer:

The parts of London and Chicago definitely stretch these boundaries.

Xhafer:

For any of these previously existing sets of characters.

Xhafer:

And my first stop is for Londo.

Xhafer:

Orlando bloom.

Xhafer:

And for Dzhokhar.

Xhafer:

John Rhys-Davies.

Laura:

I knew you were going to say that the second you said Orlando bloom.

Laura:

I was like, there's only one other person that could possibly be the other one.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

They.

Xhafer:

They're there.

Xhafer:

They've got excellent chemistry together.

Xhafer:

And I feel like they both could do I think John Reese Davis is being

Xhafer:

an excellent checar in particular.

Xhafer:

Given his body of work and his style of acting.

Xhafer:

And then Orlando bloom of the two would be a little bit more worried

Xhafer:

about with Alondo, but I still think he could do a pretty good job.

Xhafer:

He might be too pretty.

Laura:

Well, that's what the, that's what the makeup teams for.

Xhafer:

It's true.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

My second pair is Zachary Quinto as Lando.

Xhafer:

And Carl urban as Dzhokhar.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I mean, I could definitely see Karl urban getting into some of the more ridiculous.

Laura:

Aspects, you know, if he gets, if he gets a crawfish seen, for example,

Xhafer:

For Carl urban is really good at living in the

Xhafer:

moment, but Zachary Quinto Of.

Xhafer:

This pair compared to the other pair, I feel a lot better about both actors.

Xhafer:

Executor Quinto Sacramento is definitely done

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

like outright evil before.

Xhafer:

And could do a very good job with that, but also that redemption arc.

Xhafer:

And what's coming with Alondo is also so important and, you know, being the elder

Xhafer:

statesman, and there's a lot of nuance in Zachary Quinto could definitely bring

Laura:

Sure.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

And then my final pair is as Alondo Michael Fassbender.

Xhafer:

And as Dzhokhar James

Xhafer:

McAvoy.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

What for maybe you're less educated.

Laura:

Co-host what are they a duo in?

Xhafer:

The X men historic X-Men.

Xhafer:

So not the.

Xhafer:

Not the uh, Patrick Stewart ones, but the ones that are set in the past,

Xhafer:

they are Magneto and professor X,

Laura:

Oh, okay.

Laura:

Yeah, that's a good duo to poll.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

There's a lot of overlap between those two characters.

Xhafer:

And Londo in checar in weird sorts of ways.

Xhafer:

And sometimes its parts are traded.

Xhafer:

Like Magneto's kind of got this like tragic oppressed past that Dzhokhar

Xhafer:

has a lot more in common with.

Xhafer:

But I think.

Xhafer:

The character Magneto has more in common with Alondo than

Xhafer:

checar.

Xhafer:

But it is also a good mirror of their very early relationship in season one.

Xhafer:

Where compared to now, their roles are definitely flipped.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I like all those combos.

Laura:

Those are, especially, you know, when you think The other characters they've played.

Laura:

I didn't pick a character.

Laura:

Do I'll tell you about my logic.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

the two actors that I picked.

Laura:

Both wound up being in their sixties, which is a little older than.

Laura:

Obviously Peter Jurassic and Andreas were.

Laura:

Per their roles.

Xhafer:

Andreas I think was up

Xhafer:

there during this

Laura:

okay.

Laura:

I know he's since passed away.

Laura:

So, you know, he might've been a little farther up there.

Laura:

You can't really tell it with all

Xhafer:

I think he's in

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Oh, that makeup on him.

Laura:

It's like, no.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

He could be anything.

Laura:

But both of these actors are in their sixties.

Laura:

I give myself like a justification for that in that.

Laura:

I think that there's a real.

Laura:

Feeling in the zeitgeists of our current political situation.

Laura:

In the United States, at least that.

Laura:

Amongst, you know, gen X-ers millennials, gen Z.

Laura:

Most of us are being governed by people.

Laura:

In their sixties and seventies and.

Laura:

We have some different tastes on what we think our government should be like.

Xhafer:

That's the nicest way I've ever heard that said.

Laura:

We're, we're kind of getting a little tired of some of the ideas

Laura:

that are still hanging on and.

Laura:

For say the Senate.

Laura:

The house.

Laura:

All branches of our government, really.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Laura:

easily get away with two actors in their sixties in this context.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

Cause we're, we're feeling that and you know, the Wando character

Laura:

is kind of supposed to be a little bit of a washed up bureaucrat.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

you know, Jakarta is supposed to be experienced in season.

Laura:

So I think it makes sense, right.

Laura:

So I've, I've talked myself

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

For Alondo it was important for me to pick somebody

Laura:

who was kind of a soft man.

Laura:

You know, somebody that you kind of feel that washed just from.

Laura:

Their demeanor.

Laura:

And so I was thinking about this person.

Xhafer:

Did you just pick Mitch McConnell?

Laura:

There's our zinger.

Xhafer:

Uh,

Laura:

Episode

Laura:

over.

Laura:

We're

Laura:

No.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

I was like, well, Who's an actor that I saw that was kind of soft.

Laura:

And had that kind of washed up feeling.

Laura:

And I've been watching the new house of the dragons series on HBO.

Laura:

And I've been thinking about the old game of Thrones, right?

Laura:

So I thought mark Addy, who played Robert Brathen for Orlando.

Xhafer:

Ah, yeah, that's a good

Laura:

I could see, we know he can do kind of the party boy thing because

Laura:

Robert was a notorious drunk.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

You know, I maybe take the beard off of him.

Laura:

Like no beard for Londo.

Laura:

I like the idea of clean, shave and Londo.

Laura:

But I thought he could do it.

Laura:

And, and you know, of course he's got.

Laura:

The chops to do like the pompous and the.

Laura:

The Regal and you know, I think mark Addy would be a good choice.

Laura:

It'll never happen, but I would like it.

Laura:

So then for Dzhokhar, I was thinking, well, there's a couple of things that

Laura:

are important to me about Dzhokhar.

Laura:

I want him to be a little bit taller than Londo.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

so you can get a couple of those scenes where, you know, they're staged at

Laura:

least to look like Dzhokhar is towering.

Laura:

Want him to be, you know, a broad shoulder kind of person.

Laura:

I want him to have a really distinct voice.

Laura:

And so a voice actor that I've been in miring lately, I've, I've

Laura:

seen his work in adventure time.

Laura:

Let's see, he was in an amphibia that we watched with my son.

Laura:

Um, Is Keith David.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

You know, he was, he was the flame king in adventure time.

Laura:

Noble role.

Laura:

He was the king, the king of the newts.

Laura:

In amphibia he's got a lot of king things under there, so

Laura:

very commanding, very Regal.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I'm thinking the same dude.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

He was someone in deep space, nine wasn't.

Xhafer:

He.

Laura:

I mean, if they never got this man to play at cling

Laura:

on, they just really missed her.

Xhafer:

Was, he was not in star Trek.

Xhafer:

I'm making this all

Xhafer:

up in my head.

Laura:

I mean, star Trek really missed out on that, but not casting this man.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

I

Laura:

Distinctive voice.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent should have been cleaned out at some point.

Xhafer:

Or a Romulan for

Laura:

Yeah, Yeah, he could have been

Xhafer:

He's got that.

Xhafer:

He's got a Regal aspect.

Xhafer:

He definitely could have been.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So that's, that's my pair.

Laura:

That's my dream.

Laura:

Pear.

Laura:

But, you know, it's one of the things I'm not sure the CW

Laura:

has HBO game of Thrones money.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

Well, I'm honestly the way all the network stuff is happening right now,

Xhafer:

this could very easily end up on HBO, max.

Xhafer:

Instead.

Xhafer:

So who knows?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I don't think that would be the worst thing in the world, but

Xhafer:

I would, I would much prefer them to have an HBO max budget compared

Xhafer:

to a CW The different, I think the main difference though, would be number of

Xhafer:

episodes because of the time the CW it's getting a 20-something episode season.

Xhafer:

If it's on HBO, max, it's

Laura:

Yeah, they better be 10 really good episodes too.

Xhafer:

Yeah, and I don't, I would rather have probably have

Xhafer:

24 lower budget episodes to be

Laura:

Yeah, give me more.

Laura:

More Babylon

Xhafer:

Babylon five needs the time to breathe, you know?

Laura:

true.

Xhafer:

That's that's part of what makes it such a good show is

Xhafer:

it knows when to take those And you can't do that in 10 episodes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And that's, I mean, some of the problems that get me thrown so

Laura:

struggled with Well, what episode are we going to talk about today?

Laura:

Joe?

Xhafer:

We've we've got season two episode 19, the long Twilight struggle.

Xhafer:

As we already mentioned, this is flipped to the next episode,

Xhafer:

divided loyalties aired first, and I N comes first in story order.

Xhafer:

Very clearly due to an interaction with Sheridan and

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

That's where I spotted it.

Xhafer:

Yeah, that's when it was like, oh, maybe these could have been.

Xhafer:

And then it was like, oh no, this is fucked up.

Xhafer:

They fucked this up.

Xhafer:

HBO max needs to fix this.

Xhafer:

This, this is, this is just actually

Laura:

huh.

Xhafer:

But I do have one note.

Xhafer:

The title does come from a quote from JFK.

Laura:

I got this one, too.

Xhafer:

I got the whole paragraph it's in my episode guide book,

Xhafer:

it's the first thing in the

Xhafer:

episode.

Xhafer:

it talks about it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Now the trumpet summons us again, not as a call to bear arms, though.

Xhafer:

Arms we need.

Xhafer:

Not as a call to battle though in battle we are, but it's a call to

Xhafer:

bear the burdens of a long Twilight struggle year in and Rejoicing

Xhafer:

and hope patient in tribulation.

Xhafer:

A struggle against the common enemies of man tyranny, poverty,

Xhafer:

disease, and war itself.

Laura:

Yeah, JFK speech.

Laura:

One of his inaugural addresses

Laura:

So this is another one of those things that I not being a.

Laura:

Very stellar historian did not catch.

Laura:

This I'm just, you know, I hear things like the last best And

Laura:

the long Twilight struggle.

Laura:

And I think God, what a good writer, John Michael street Sinskey is.

Laura:

And then my husband's like, no, that's a presidential speech.

Laura:

So, yeah, I mean, I really like how.

Laura:

This section, at least of the inaugural address fits with this episode in

Xhafer:

For sure.

Laura:

Like a very, very nice curated selection.

Xhafer:

Yeah, and it fits, I mean, Chicago gives one of the best

Xhafer:

speeches of the entire series

Xhafer:

in this episode.

Laura:

Oh, my God.

Xhafer:

it's at the end and

Xhafer:

we'll get

Laura:

we will.

Xhafer:

All right, but we open on centaury prime.

Xhafer:

With REFA and Alondo in the emperor's chambers.

Laura:

I really thought that we were going to get the emperor here.

Laura:

I was like, oh, it's

Xhafer:

We don't for awhile

Laura:

what a disappointment.

Xhafer:

Um, It is.

Laura:

Is that the emperor shows up earlier.

Xhafer:

Cast car Tasha earlier.

Xhafer:

He's absent.

Xhafer:

Reefa just sits on the

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Real fruit.

Xhafer:

And Lambda was summoned because the centaury are about to win the war with

Laura:

Yeah, they haven't asked for Rondo's help

Xhafer:

Nope, not

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

They just kind of backed him into a quarter on this one.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Over on B Five dilemmas meditating.

Xhafer:

Uh, When she greets an old friend, it is drawl who totally forced Ivanova

Xhafer:

to work early needlessly, super rude.

Laura:

But the number one sin and avant of his book.

Laura:

Get me out of bed

Xhafer:

Like they forced the CNC crew to freak out and call her

Xhafer:

because the planet sending signals.

Xhafer:

And then she's got to tell she gets on the phone until Sheridan and he's just

Xhafer:

like, yeah, he's in my room right now.

Xhafer:

Like, it's

Laura:

I love the fake out that happens here because they like.

Laura:

Are calling for avant of, I think.

Laura:

And it goes to somebody's quarters and there's a nice steamy shower.

Laura:

And you're like, oh God, it's a lot of uh, and then it's,

Laura:

it's just priests box lighter.

Laura:

No

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Get everybody all hot and bothered for Ivanova and then whoops.

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

After theme draw who only ever met Sinclair introduces,

Xhafer:

this helps to Sheridan.

Xhafer:

Sheridan's aware of him.

Xhafer:

Draw tells him to come visit ASAP and to bring another hill though,

Xhafer:

who, which is more sellable than saying, I already talked to Dylan.

Laura:

Yeah, but this way.

Laura:

It's way

Laura:

more mysterious, Right.

Xhafer:

right?

Xhafer:

It's gotta be mysterious.

Xhafer:

You gotta force.

Xhafer:

You gotta like force Deland to hurry to find Instead of just being

Xhafer:

all like, oh also bring to LAN.

Xhafer:

So that way she's not running around the station.

Xhafer:

He's not wondering who the hell it is.

Xhafer:

It'd be so much

Laura:

Do you think he's shipping these two together really hard and he's

Laura:

just trying to make it like a little.

Xhafer:

He makes it very clear.

Xhafer:

He is witnessing everything that's happening on the station.

Xhafer:

In the creepiest way possible.

Xhafer:

So yeah, I think a hundred percent he feels they're

Laura:

He's taking the dolls and he's going now.

Xhafer:

That is exactly what's happening.

Xhafer:

Over at Dzhokhar's quarters.

Xhafer:

Uh, He's talking to just stem.

Xhafer:

And Hey.

Xhafer:

We know this guy, this is William Morgan shepherd.

Laura:

I like him better in this role.

Laura:

Way better.

Xhafer:

He's significantly less creepy than he was as the soul hunter.

Laura:

Very dignified to.

Xhafer:

if you.

Xhafer:

didn't listen to our soul hunter episode.

Xhafer:

This is mark Shepherd's dad.

Xhafer:

Of supernatural fame.

Xhafer:

And he's telling checar uh, that the fight does not go well in her price.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

There's one chance that the non have cutting off the

Xhafer:

Suntory supply lines before they drive further into Suntory space.

Xhafer:

And drag the battle and hence wore out until the Suntory grow distasteful of it.

Xhafer:

Now.

Xhafer:

Obviously.

Xhafer:

It isn't the intention.

Xhafer:

But I'm seeing so much of Ukraine and Russia.

Xhafer:

Especially at

Xhafer:

this bit.

Laura:

Oh, my God.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

the parallels are uncanny.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it's spooky.

Xhafer:

How it feels, these, this, this fictional conflict and this real one.

Xhafer:

Short of the ending of this episode, where that ends the conflict, which Jesus, fuck.

Xhafer:

I hope doesn't happen.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Because I know what the equivalent there is, and I'm not even,

Xhafer:

I don't even want to say it out loud to

Laura:

Yeah, no, I think we all have enough imagination here that we can.

Laura:

smell, what you're stepping in.

Xhafer:

Uh, Justin says goodbye to his favorite nephew.

Xhafer:

And heads off reinforcing Dakar's work as being more important to

Xhafer:

the war than a fleet of ships.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That's important bits there because that's going to be what he needs.

Xhafer:

Well next

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

DLN runs and meet Sheridan and they head down to

Xhafer:

the surface of Epsilon three.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And then REFA and Alondo are back on Suntory prime talking about the

Laura:

Now they're backing him in the corner.

Xhafer:

Yeah, this is, this is putting baby in the corner over here.

Xhafer:

REFA is going to pull all the forces away from Koresh seven before the non attack.

Xhafer:

And Alondo was indignant.

Xhafer:

What is this reefer

Xhafer:

madness?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

You got to get one in

Laura:

there at least.

Xhafer:

He explains your secret army will defend while we take the Narin

Xhafer:

Homeworld while it's unprotected.

Xhafer:

Uh, They won't in vain darn rather than they're just going to flatten

Xhafer:

it with those illegal mass drivers.

Laura:

Yeah, this is just some really wild logic.

Laura:

My opinion.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I mean, if you kill everyone on the planet,

Xhafer:

you don't need to worry about.

Xhafer:

Putting foot soldiers on the

Laura:

Yeah, I guess we've already used this planet for a lot of its resources.

Laura:

So at this point it's just like revenge, right?

Laura:

We're not.

Laura:

Going for any more stuff really?

Xhafer:

Yeah, there, there infrastructure probably doesn't matter.

Xhafer:

You know, when you've got a, a, a nation that doesn't maintain its infrastructure

Xhafer:

for so long and it's crumbling anyways.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So these mass drivers, like now that I have read the expanse

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Are they in there?

Laura:

I don't, I don't want to say that they're exactly in there, but you know

Laura:

the idea comes up in the books that, Do you really don't need like, A nuclear

Laura:

weapon to harm people once you're in space, like you just need a big rock.

Laura:

And you need to throw it hard enough.

Laura:

And it doesn't even have to be that big really depends on, you know, it's

Laura:

all a function of physics, right.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it doesn't need to be that big and it doesn't need to be thrown

Xhafer:

that hard because terminal velocity is

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And it's going to hit that before it hits the ground anyways.

Xhafer:

So it's really more about being accurate when you're trying to

Xhafer:

throw But you're throwing asteroids at a planet for four days.

Xhafer:

Which is the plan.

Xhafer:

Uh, It doesn't really matter where that point.

Laura:

The descriptions of like the destruction that this

Laura:

would cause that they come up within the expanse Just really.

Xhafer:

Oh, It's

Laura:

It's hard to.

Laura:

It's hard to fathom it without someone giving you that kind of illustration.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's a, these have been around in Saifai for a long time.

Xhafer:

As a concept.

Xhafer:

I mean, I think.

Xhafer:

Even JMS is like listed some book from the 1950s that has the minute.

Xhafer:

When I was reading through his use note stuff.

Xhafer:

They are horrifying.

Xhafer:

It is a horrifying concept.

Laura:

Isn't that also um, Robert Highlands, the moon is a harsh mistress.

Laura:

I think the people is a moon.

Laura:

Take, well, I don't know that they use mass drivers necessarily.

Laura:

I don't know that they call it that, but basically they start flinging rocks.

Laura:

At some point, I think, where they threatened to at least

Laura:

it's been a while since I read

Xhafer:

Ah, man.

Xhafer:

I think.

Xhafer:

The last time I haven't read the moon is a harsh mistress.

Xhafer:

I audio booked it on a family trip.

Xhafer:

I think when I was like

Xhafer:

15.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And I remember a bunch of it, but I don't remember that.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Maybe I'm thinking of a different Heinlein book.

Laura:

I don't know, but you know, the idea that, you rock

Laura:

from space.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Uh, a rock from space is going to be devastating.

Laura:

Even we have lots of just accidental rocks from space in Saifai Canon, you know

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's Armageddon, but we pointed it at

Laura:

It's Armageddon on purpose.

Xhafer:

Oh, you know, they totally do that in Starship troopers.

Xhafer:

The bugs launched in asteroid at Buenos Aires.

Xhafer:

That's what starts the war and Starship

Laura:

God, that's a wild trip.

Laura:

That movie.

Laura:

The book is interesting too, but the movie is definitely wild.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

Anyways, back at the station.

Xhafer:

Garibaldi is suspicious of draws message.

Xhafer:

But Ivanova confirms it as genuine and dilemmas Sheridan decided to head down.

Xhafer:

Back on centaury prime reefer tells Londo that they will be on the

Xhafer:

bridge of the flagship, overseeing their victory at the NAR and home

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's like, not only do you have to call your friends and have

Laura:

them come help us let's go see it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Let's just go watch.

Xhafer:

Millions upon millions of people die.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

God, he's such a Google.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Shakara arrives at MetaLab at Dr.

Xhafer:

Franklin's request who warns at the invasion of the non-home

Xhafer:

world appears to be eminent.

Laura:

Yes.

Xhafer:

He had overheard some refugees talking about strange.

Xhafer:

Centaury behavior.

Xhafer:

And passes it along to checar because the soldier died before

Laura:

Yeah, Jakarta is very thankful and he gets on the horn right away.

Laura:

To tell just Stan, but it's too late.

Laura:

Everything's rolling.

Laura:

And just in, will not abort this assault, even if it looks like.

Laura:

Something else is going.

Laura:

Going to happen.

Xhafer:

Sheridan and Dillon make and they are uh, traversing the

Xhafer:

catacombs of the great machine.

Xhafer:

When she casually curses, noting that she's been studying the human languages.

Xhafer:

This is in direct reference and she actually quotes Next episode.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, this

Laura:

is where yep.

Laura:

Continuity is all wrong.

Laura:

It's broken.

Laura:

I wouldn't call this a casual curse.

Laura:

I call this an emphatic

Xhafer:

That's fair.

Xhafer:

They eventually find the big CG hallway of you're almost

Laura:

Yeah, we saw this big CG hallway before.

Xhafer:

Checar calls his uncle to get them to cancel the attack.

Xhafer:

He refuses and offers the famous last words of we'll talk about this

Xhafer:

after this very dangerous and deadly battle with our enemy who completely

Xhafer:

overwhelms us in every such a trope.

Laura:

Yup.

Xhafer:

Sheridan and Dylan.

Xhafer:

Make it over to draw.

Xhafer:

Who holograms in and reveals he could have guided them through

Xhafer:

the catacombs, but just chose not

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

But a draw move.

Xhafer:

Also he comments on Dylan's transformation.

Xhafer:

Like he didn't just see her 10 minutes ago.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Also, he sees everything.

Laura:

I mean,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

gets real creepy in here.

Xhafer:

Before speaking for the audience Really when he talks about Sheridan.

Xhafer:

Uh, We weren't sure about you at first, but it's all worked out.

Xhafer:

Kind of very much felt like a on purpose proxy.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Do you think he's the network executives here?

Xhafer:

He

Xhafer:

might well be.

Laura:

All right, you can

Xhafer:

He knows about all the earth shit that's happening.

Xhafer:

And offers his and the great machines assistance in the future.

Laura:

Someday.

Xhafer:

And man, this is the whole thing because you would just immediately like,

Xhafer:

okay, I've got literally the best spy satellite that's ever been invented.

Xhafer:

At my Beck and call.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Hey, tell me what's going on with the, with the Senator Cantrell.

Laura:

And president

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Can you just record Clark for like three days?

Xhafer:

And just to let me know when he fucks up and gets it on camera, that'd be

Laura:

Hey, you know what?

Laura:

I'll also be great to know what's going on with Sycor at the same time.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Thanks.

Xhafer:

Just tell me before Buster gets

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That's all I wanted them.

Xhafer:

Did I say

Laura:

You did, but I kinda like Buster let's call him Buster now.

Xhafer:

Buster.

Xhafer:

Buster the sidekick from the Seminole.

Xhafer:

classic jingle all the way.

Xhafer:

That's right.

Xhafer:

Babylon five takes place in the jingle.

Xhafer:

All the waivers spend.

Xhafer:

I know you're laughing right now.

Xhafer:

Just A Can that that's a button.

Laura:

Don't worry.

Laura:

got to keep Ben happy.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Got to keep Uh, then arrive at garage to find no Centauri,

Xhafer:

but five saddo ships, D cloak.

Xhafer:

And we get some great music.

Xhafer:

This is actually worked into the season three theme.

Xhafer:

This piece here, it's worked into the

Laura:

It definitely

Laura:

sounded familiar.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The shadows destroy the NARKN forces with one of their ships being slightly damaged.

Xhafer:

And your car sits in.

Xhafer:

The shadows has all of the candles in this quarters have gone out.

Laura:

Yeah, I liked the towing, the little shadow

Laura:

ship away with the other ship.

Xhafer:

That was a

Laura:

The CGI really, they put some effort and time and money into.

Laura:

And, you know, to have those little sequences, like it's not just

Laura:

the shadows completely MOAs over.

Laura:

I mean, obviously they do, but you know, we did have some little damage and we

Laura:

got to tow it and it's, you know, that's.

Laura:

A nice creative

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It just latches on and grabs it.

Xhafer:

Draw census, some distress calls and send Sheridan and DLN back to Babylon

Xhafer:

And then we get a little A shout

Laura:

Uh, No.

Laura:

We don't get to see our friends at risk, but we find out he's running the great

Laura:

machine or he's the, he's the maintenance

Xhafer:

Well Zafris is running the great machine, but what about

Xhafer:

Zathura's?

Xhafer:

Or maybe it will be

Laura:

Hm.

Laura:

it could be satirists.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent.

Xhafer:

We just

Xhafer:

don't know.

Xhafer:

We don't know which one.

Xhafer:

Avant of awards, Garibaldi, the Suntory are attacking the Narin

Xhafer:

Homeworld ISN reports and violence breaks out immediately in the

Laura:

Oh my God.

Laura:

So this bar You're telling me all these people would just be hanging

Laura:

out together before they find out, you know, like, like nothing's

Laura:

been going wrong this whole time.

Laura:

Like we just have a bar full of just Narins and Sentara.

Laura:

Like mixed and it's like, You're telling me

Xhafer:

No drowsy.

Laura:

like place.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is.

Xhafer:

Yeah, no, I agree.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent.

Xhafer:

The wars have been going on for six months at this point, per

Xhafer:

REFA you would be separated.

Laura:

You would, there would be, this is the place the center I go,

Laura:

this is the place than our and go.

Xhafer:

And we've seen bits of that too.

Xhafer:

We've seen Centauri places in Northern places.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And then you, you see those people hearing about it and their own

Laura:

places and going out into those Oakwood rumble, you know, but.

Laura:

Not just all hearing about it in the same bar.

Xhafer:

I don't know what it is about the word rumble that makes me

Xhafer:

think it's a west side story style

Laura:

Nope.

Laura:

that's

Xhafer:

how it's playing out in

Xhafer:

my head right now.

Laura:

That'd be a good fight.

Xhafer:

their fingers.

Xhafer:

All right, well enough with the comedy.

Xhafer:

Let's talk about tragedy.

Xhafer:

Sheridan, Dylan, get back in already word of the use of mass drivers.

Xhafer:

Londo looks on helpless as the weight of his machinations is brought to fruition.

Laura:

Yeah, he's made some very bad choices.

Laura:

Uh, When all these times he said he had no choice to.

Laura:

He's he said that it was all beyond his control.

Laura:

And yet.

Laura:

Here we are.

Xhafer:

he is.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That scene with him in the reflection.

Xhafer:

Is just iconic.

Laura:

It is.

Laura:

Classic screenshot.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Xhafer:

It's the cover of my season two guidebook.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's like the most pivotal moment of the season.

Laura:

I'd say.

Xhafer:

would argue that it's probably one of the most pivotal moments of the show.

Xhafer:

Um, It's, it's one of the, definitely one of the most iconic scenes of the show.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Apparently they almost didn't get the reflection working.

Xhafer:

It was the whole thing.

Xhafer:

They managed it with a sheet of plexiglass on the green They were not

Xhafer:

sure how this was going to happen.

Xhafer:

It was apparently a minor miracle that they got that

Xhafer:

shot.

Laura:

Hey, it was worth it.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent.

Xhafer:

The non Homeworld is sieged for four days without surrender,

Xhafer:

but there's nothing they can do.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

plan on surrendering, but before they do the Curry sends Jakarta, talk

Xhafer:

to Sheridan to ask for political asylum.

Laura:

God, this is so hard.

Laura:

Like the defeat in this man that he projects.

Laura:

Too.

Laura:

Share it and about, you know, you can tell that it hurts him.

Laura:

To ask for sanctuary, but he's.

Laura:

Presumably the last of the car re I mean, I don't know if the others

Laura:

are dead or just all imprisoned.

Xhafer:

We'll be soon enough.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

As we find out in the next

Xhafer:

scene.

Laura:

They want a man on the outside.

Laura:

And so they instruct him to beg earth for.

Laura:

Sympathy.

Xhafer:

Lando arrives back on Babylon five and immediately

Xhafer:

arranges for council meeting.

Xhafer:

He announces the non surrender again.

Xhafer:

And then he goes over the terms of surrender in front of the

Xhafer:

Babylon five advisory council and the league of not aligned

Xhafer:

worlds.

Laura:

just horrible.

Xhafer:

The first is the disbanding of the Kyrie.

Xhafer:

They're all war criminals now.

Xhafer:

Earth asked to send observers to their trials and to just immediately

Laura:

I thought that was just terribly rude.

Laura:

Sheridan.

Laura:

Sheridan's request was.

Laura:

Very reasonable and this interior not having it.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

To any nurse who kills a centaury will lead to the execution of 500

Xhafer:

Narins including their family.

Laura:

This is a very Roman sounding punishment.

Laura:

I feel like ancient Rome would do this.

Xhafer:

This, there is historical precedent for these kinds of things.

Xhafer:

You kill one of our people.

Xhafer:

We're going to kill a hundred of

Xhafer:

yours or 200

Laura:

own country, right.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Laura:

the civil war.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It is there's historical precedent for this kind of mass murder.

Xhafer:

And that's just fucking terrible.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Nothing changes.

Xhafer:

three, A new neuron.

Xhafer:

Government's going to be put in place by the Suntory as a colony of the Republic.

Xhafer:

And finally Jakarta loses his spot on the council.

Xhafer:

Both earth and minbar stand up for Dzhokhar and protect him for,

Xhafer:

with their offer of sanctuary.

Xhafer:

Londo insists.

Xhafer:

He leaves the council chamber immediately.

Xhafer:

He gets up and delivers a hell of a few lines.

Xhafer:

Just, just cut it in.

Xhafer:

There's there's no talking about it.

Xhafer:

That will recreate the emotion that That is summoned here.

Laura:

and this speech I've seen quoted a lot.

Laura:

Lately with the current events going on and.

Laura:

versus Russia.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

I remember after the invasion started, one of the first

Xhafer:

things I saw was a picture of a.

Xhafer:

Ukrainian.

Xhafer:

Uh, Pre is it president or prime

Xhafer:

minister?

Laura:

the president there.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Zelinsky with this quote attached to it.

Laura:

Yeah, how.

Laura:

How strange must that feel for.

Laura:

J Michael Stravinsky you know, he's seen these memes.

Laura:

He has to have he's all over Twitter.

Xhafer:

I'm sure he has.

Xhafer:

And honestly, if I were to see him at a convention, I would probably

Xhafer:

get in line and ask him that.

Laura:

I think that's a great question You know, it has to be.

Laura:

Impactful.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We cut to Londa watching ISN uh, who announced week

Xhafer:

long celebration of victory.

Xhafer:

Shared a meats at your car and reinforces that he personally will do what he can of

Xhafer:

course it's too little too late, really.

Xhafer:

You know, Sheridan never really got as involved as we should have an earth.

Xhafer:

Definitely.

Xhafer:

Didn't.

Laura:

Yeah, sure.

Laura:

It and tried, you know, he had the, what was it?

Laura:

Um, Some supply ships with old food.

Laura:

That.

Laura:

Did your car broke down about.

Laura:

In a previous episode.

Xhafer:

If earth and Sorry had stepped in and stopped this conflict from

Xhafer:

happening in the first Like the first attack happens, NARKN declares war

Xhafer:

and they both are just like, no.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It makes the

Laura:

lens words very hollow.

Laura:

Doesn't it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Dylan calls for Sheridan.

Xhafer:

He arrives to a gathering of the Rangers and cosh.

Xhafer:

She plays a Sheridan is co-head of the Rangers in the area to help protect With

Xhafer:

the Narin Centauri conflict over the next phase of the great war will start soon.

Xhafer:

And shared and draws a line in the sand against the darkness.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And that's the episode.

Laura:

A big, big episode.

Xhafer:

Huge episode.

Xhafer:

And just.

Xhafer:

The acting in this episode.

Xhafer:

I will say this.

Xhafer:

Beth has watched like one episode of Babylon five with me before this, I think.

Laura:

Hm.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

And not really paid attention.

Laura:

Depending on the episode.

Laura:

Totally fair.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent this episode.

Xhafer:

Pulled her attention demanded her attention.

Xhafer:

And she even told me I'm emotionally invested in this show now.

Xhafer:

Is how powerful.

Xhafer:

The acting in this episode is.

. Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

and this is a Babylon five out of five

Xhafer:

A hundred percent.

Xhafer:

One of the best episodes of the series.

Xhafer:

Just.

Xhafer:

The weight of everything.

Xhafer:

Is felt and carried.

Xhafer:

And this episode reverberates through of the show.

Laura:

Yeah, I forgot that I needed even put a rating on this episode.

Laura:

And I mean, it's, it's obviously a five out of five.

Laura:

I mean, this is.

Laura:

Where we start getting the real And this long simmering conflict.

Laura:

Comes to a real turn, a dark turn.

Laura:

And we're going into like, The long night of Dzhokhar, Dzhokhar is going

Laura:

to go through some really crazy shit.

Laura:

It doesn't end here just because his planet is.

Laura:

Now subjugated and taken over like, His story is just beginning.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Xhafer:

All right.

Laura:

Well, that was a heavy

Laura:

episode.

Xhafer:

It was a very heavy episode and the next episode is

Xhafer:

not exactly light watching either.

Xhafer:

We have season two episode 20 divided loyalties.

Xhafer:

Rita Alexander returns to Babylon five.

Xhafer:

Convincers a trader on board.

Xhafer:

Ivanova makes a startling revelation.

Laura:

Yeah, very vague.

Laura:

I'm excited to see Lita again.

Laura:

I thought she was

Xhafer:

Yes.

Laura:

Ready to have her back.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well thank you to Jeremy Siegel for our lovely theme Music, you can find

Xhafer:

more of his work at Jeremy Siegel.

Xhafer:

40 two.bandcamp.com.

Laura:

And thank you to angry duck time machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

And go ahead and join the community.

Xhafer:

And our discord where we'll be chatting about this.

Xhafer:

We were chatting about all the Twitter stuff, chatting about all kinds of things.

Xhafer:

And then also, who are you?

Xhafer:

At gmail.com.

Xhafer:

Shoot us an email with your thoughts on season two for our

Xhafer:

season two recap episode, that will be coming out in a number of

Xhafer:

weeks.

Laura:

looking forward to it.

Laura:

I can't believe we're almost to the end of season two.

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

We're almost at episode 50.

Laura:

Yeah, it's

Xhafer:

right, we'll see you next weekend or not.

Laura:

All right.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Who Are You?

About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.