Episode 61

full
Published on:

18th Jan 2023

S3E10 - Is Sheridan Watching Me Poop?

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer play some more plot poker resulting in their first Kosh-centric episode. Meanwhile, as the fascist coup in Earthgov continues, the fight comes to B5 as Sheridan declares independence in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 10: Severed Dreams.

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello, and welcome to who are you?

Xhafer:

A Babylon five, watch casts hosted by two former strangers.

Xhafer:

Now friends who've gotten to know each other while we're watching a show

Xhafer:

from their childhood Babylon five.

Xhafer:

I'm sure fair.

Laura:

And I'm Laura.

Xhafer:

And today we're going to play some plot poker.

Xhafer:

So we've got a ton of packs to open.

Xhafer:

We've got that new shadow set right.

Laura:

Uh, Huh.

Xhafer:

I'm getting right into it.

Xhafer:

I'm opening packs.

Xhafer:

I'm excited

Xhafer:

. I love opening packs.

Xhafer:

Let's see here.

Xhafer:

Oh, I got ambassador Kosh.

Laura:

Oh, what a good get.

Laura:

My purse.

Laura:

My person in this first pack is Kaylin, who it says is a memory character.

Laura:

Is that the one that . Linear saves face for.

Laura:

I'm not sure.

Xhafer:

Maybe.

Laura:

Sometimes random

Xhafer:

I do have linear all beat up.

Xhafer:

I got the slow recovery card.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

I got Lord Mallari.

Xhafer:

Replaces Lando Molare.

Laura:

wow.

Xhafer:

I got brother Theo in the same pack.

Laura:

Ah, really.

Xhafer:

Really.

Xhafer:

I also got little morale, which I will give you for obvious reasons.

Xhafer:

Hope you get a banger pack after this

Xhafer:

. Laura: I did get one that makes me laugh.

Xhafer:

I got no alternatives, which has law, no Mallari on it because he has no choice.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Like a lady Morella said in our last episode, that.

Xhafer:

He keeps thinking he has no choice.

Xhafer:

So that made me laugh.

Xhafer:

I think I'm going to put brother Theo in my solutions pile.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And the thing I'm going to put Mallari in my problems pile.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I think that is a big problem.

Laura:

Oh, I got Lou morale too weird.

Xhafer:

Avant of all.

Xhafer:

Holy shit.

Xhafer:

I'm getting banger pack after banger pack.

Laura:

You got some good ones.

Xhafer:

Ooh, she's got a PSI rating of one.

Xhafer:

Well, she's definitely going into solutions pile.

Laura:

I have an ambitious captain.

Laura:

That was my character in this.

Laura:

Pack.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

Kind of a let down.

Xhafer:

Oh, Hey, I got a officer uh, Alex Jones.

Laura:

Really.

Xhafer:

He is just night watch agent.

Laura:

I was going to say, does he have a name?

Xhafer:

No, he doesn't, he's just Nightwatch agent in like everything.

Laura:

Wow.

Xhafer:

And he can go onto the problems pile.

Laura:

I got lots of really vague problems.

Laura:

That's one of the things about these cards is some of them are

Laura:

just extremely vaguely named.

Xhafer:

I got a Zathura's.

Laura:

Yeah, but is it, is it Zafris.

Laura:

Chris or is it.

Xhafer:

It's zk.

Laura:

Ah, okay.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

The pastor fee is between the H and the R this time.

Xhafer:

And then I have a a bonus pack that I'm going to.

Xhafer:

I'm going to open for this episode because we're watching

Xhafer:

the episode shattered dreams.

Xhafer:

And at my local new nerds store, they had exactly one pack.

Xhafer:

Of the shattered dreams expansion.

Xhafer:

Which I've not seen any cards from before.

Xhafer:

We've got.

Xhafer:

Pensive Lanier.

Xhafer:

Um, The uh, Packaging here it's only eight cards instead of the normal 12 or 15.

Xhafer:

I feel like the last handful have been.

Laura:

I feel like we haven't had a ton of linear in these three episodes.

Xhafer:

these, these cards might be for stuff that happens way later.

Xhafer:

Let's see what we get in here.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

Well, I've got a spoiler off the top.

Xhafer:

But I'll just go ahead and show you that card.

Laura:

Oh, yeah, that is a spoiler up top.

Xhafer:

That's a good one.

Xhafer:

C.

Xhafer:

I've got a sniper.

Xhafer:

I've got a psychopath.

Xhafer:

The conspiracy deepens.

Xhafer:

Oh, Hey, you know what?

Xhafer:

We're going to add to this one.

Xhafer:

I got the incentives card.

Xhafer:

Which has a certain market's getting roses.

Laura:

We saw that recently.

Laura:

That was cute.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Laura:

I'm opening another pack because in five, I didn't

Laura:

get a single good character.

Laura:

And I just feel

Xhafer:

Go for it.

Xhafer:

We actually will have five extra packs for based off the box size.

Xhafer:

When it's said and done from this box based off the projected number

Xhafer:

of plot poker segments we're doing before we get to the great war boxes.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Not that I'm an obsessive planner or anything.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I got his address.

Xhafer:

Yeah, which one?

Laura:

Zeff recce.

Laura:

So

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

I think it's the same one.

Xhafer:

I got.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Boy, I feel like I got a lot of, not much to work with.

Laura:

So I'm going to be being as creative as I can.

Xhafer:

All right.

Laura:

So I think we have our, piles, huh?

Xhafer:

we got our piles ready.

Xhafer:

So while we're drawing cards from our piles real quick, I will

Xhafer:

uh, Give a brief explanation of how this works to our listeners.

Xhafer:

So we've got four piles of cards in front of us.

Xhafer:

One with characters.

Xhafer:

One with problems.

Xhafer:

One with solutions and then one with Twiss and using these cards I will be putting

Xhafer:

together a plot and the Lord is going to put together a plot and those will be the

Xhafer:

respect of a and B pots of an episode.

Xhafer:

Which we will then rate on our scale of Babylon one to five.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I think last time you had the, a plot, if I'm remembering

Laura:

correctly, does that sound right?

Xhafer:

yes yes, I did.

Xhafer:

I had the soul hunter for the, a plot and you had Zack Allen

Xhafer:

and his changing opinion.

Xhafer:

On the B plot.

Laura:

Yeah, he was man of the hour, both in the season and

Laura:

our season at Bebble and five.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

Okay,

Xhafer:

Yeah, go ahead and take her a plot.

Laura:

I'm going to do my best.

Laura:

I didn't feel like I got a lot out of those piles, but let's see.

Laura:

So, oh, it's going to be a cautious episode, everybody.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

gosh, episode.

Xhafer:

All right.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So we have cash narrow neck.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

Oh, his problem is that there are seeds of anarchy growing.

Laura:

Especially amongst the races on the station, perhaps.

Laura:

Perhaps with the Centauri or a similar race, similarly positioned race.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

The solution.

Laura:

We have maybe some key characters in this that are fleeing from.

Laura:

The Centauri Republic or.

Laura:

They're allies.

Laura:

And uh, we have a hidden, safe house that the rural ones are going to.

Laura:

Get some of these key characters to, in order to ferment.

Laura:

You know, some resistance to this growing shadow influence

Laura:

from these seeds of anarchy.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

You know, We resolved that, but the twist at the end is that propaganda

Laura:

has turned this action against us.

Laura:

And uh, Even though our characters assisted cosh.

Laura:

And getting these key characters to the safe house.

Laura:

Propaganda has come in with their own version of events.

Xhafer:

Oh man.

Xhafer:

Well, this is a very Centauri heavy episode.

Xhafer:

We

Laura:

Oh, yeah.

Laura:

Tell me why.

Xhafer:

Uh, Because of the Centauri that are trying to flee.

Xhafer:

We have prime minister Verano, the guy who takes over after Malakai.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

And he is come to the station because he's having a crisis of self.

Xhafer:

Likely due to all of the issues with The shadows, right.

Xhafer:

And that's kind of, what's been going on.

Laura:

Yeah, we know that influence

Laura:

has gotten pretty far.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

And he's the guy, who's the kind of like bumbling idiot, dude.

Xhafer:

In the high court.

Xhafer:

So he's just like all of this stuff that's going on around me.

Xhafer:

I thought I was a good prime minister.

Xhafer:

All of this is going on.

Xhafer:

This is crazy.

Xhafer:

And he manages to kind of Talk himself out of it.

Xhafer:

With a good bluff.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

So all this is going on.

Xhafer:

He's getting these centaury to the hidden Alon safe house that

Xhafer:

someone has arranged for them.

Xhafer:

And their goal is to kind of ferment things,

Laura:

Uh,

Laura:

Huh.

Xhafer:

But like that propaganda turns it around that propaganda

Xhafer:

leads to a return to ideals.

Laura:

From who.

Xhafer:

Well, the card has got Alondo on it.

Laura:

Oh, so is

Laura:

he.

Xhafer:

guessing.

Xhafer:

This bluff goes a little too far, turns into some propaganda.

Xhafer:

And ends up these centaury that thought they were going

Xhafer:

to be maybe kind of fermenting.

Xhafer:

Some kind of dissent against the shadows.

Xhafer:

They end up being loyal to the Sentara and not changing their minds.

Laura:

All that silly history that the Centauri loves so much.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Laura:

Kevin back to bite them.

Laura:

Hm.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Well between that, what do we think that Terra.

Laura:

Our rating of this episode would be.

Xhafer:

It's an interesting episode.

Xhafer:

I think the Suntory plot line would kind of cement the

Xhafer:

Path that they're on.

Xhafer:

like it's not even just like Londo in REFA at this point.

Xhafer:

Like even the person who we've seen, who's kind of like, I don't wanna say

Xhafer:

it like the most innocent centaury.

Xhafer:

But definitely the least blood thirsty centaury we've ever

Laura:

Yes.

Xhafer:

Even he's kind of led on it by the end of the episode to this path.

Xhafer:

So it kind of finalizes that um, I could see this taking place before dust to dust.

Xhafer:

Um, Maybe some of the cautious comments about the centaury being lost.

Xhafer:

Could be kind of referencing this event.

Xhafer:

The series of

Laura:

Yeah, like CAUTI kind of makes his last attempt to have any sort

Laura:

of influence on this Atari or metal.

Laura:

And their affairs and

Xhafer:

Or maybe it happens after dust to dust.

Xhafer:

Maybe he's all like, okay, well I kinda got the non on the right track.

Xhafer:

Maybe I'm real good at this.

Xhafer:

. Maybe I can save, get the Centauri.

Xhafer:

To fight these shadows for us too.

Xhafer:

And this is all an attempt by him to kind of get that going towards the

Xhafer:

end before it's too late and it fails.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It could fit either

Laura:

spot.

Xhafer:

episode.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I'd watch this episode.

Laura:

I think this could be a four out of five.

Laura:

Gotta have the right rider on it.

Xhafer:

I'm here for that.

Xhafer:

That sounds good.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Well, good job.

Xhafer:

We did an episode.

Xhafer:

So I would say an episode that is a.

Xhafer:

A little bit more within a four out of five.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Spoilers from our

Laura:

spoiling for yourself.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We've got season three, episode 10

Xhafer:

Severed dreams.

Xhafer:

we opened on Londo at space TSA waiting for over two hours.

Xhafer:

At this point, he's talking to discount Kyle McLaughlin.

Xhafer:

Before being racially profiled at TSA.

Xhafer:

I've got some feelings about this.

Laura:

Is it.

Laura:

Totally racial profiling though.

Laura:

If the person who is profiling, you has overheard you shit talking

Laura:

his entire race little time.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I mean, Like.

Xhafer:

Would it be racial profiling for someone at, you know, Dubai Airport to

Xhafer:

give George Bush Junior the side eye

Xhafer:

.

Xhafer:

It's.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Just all around weird looks here as, you know, Londo spouts his mouth off

Laura:

and uh, Obviously within earshot.

Laura:

Of this non checking identity cards now.

Laura:

It's the NARKN checking identity cards.

Laura:

This is going to sound horrible.

Laura:

Considering we just said racial profiling.

Laura:

Is that Talan again or.

Xhafer:

I don't recall.

Xhafer:

And I didn't write anything down.

Laura:

Yeah, I wanted it to be Talan again, even if it's not a

Laura:

cause that would be very good.

Laura:

Considering how he showed up in the last episode.

Xhafer:

you have a sword?

Xhafer:

If you had a he's the only one with a sword.

Laura:

Yeah, I don't think he's carrying a sword at this point.

Laura:

So.

Laura:

Yeah, but that would have been very juicy.

Laura:

So I'm going to head candidate that.

Laura:

Till on his back and he's hassling Londa.

Laura:

Molare right here.

Xhafer:

I'll take it.

Laura:

So yeah, of course Mondo gets his words thrown back in his face

Laura:

because his identity card isn't working.

Laura:

And he's going to have to wait three more hours because of Naren inefficiency.

Xhafer:

Which the Narcan is like really playing up to he's all like,

Xhafer:

oh, it's that old Nard inefficiency.

Laura:

You know how we are.

Xhafer:

You know Uh, we cut to general HEG ship in a firefight.

Laura:

But no general

Laura:

Haig.

Xhafer:

They destroy an

Xhafer:

Old Earth ship.

Xhafer:

that is fighting them.

Xhafer:

And we get a bit about.

Xhafer:

Everyone knowing each other and the emotional toll.

Xhafer:

Of fighting people that, you know,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This is, we get major Ryan here, which is uh, Bruce McGill.

Xhafer:

He is a real, that guy.

Xhafer:

He's got almost 200 acting credits.

Xhafer:

He was a series regular on rezone Isles.

Xhafer:

He's kept in Braxton.

Xhafer:

On star Trek, Voyager.

Xhafer:

He was an animal house.

Xhafer:

Yeah, animal house MacGyver, black sheep.

Xhafer:

He's all over the place.

Laura:

If you feel like this guy looks familiar, he is.

Xhafer:

So major Ryan decided that they need to repair and they

Xhafer:

need to stop and safe Harbor.

Xhafer:

And the only safe Harbor is Babylon five.

Xhafer:

So they said, of course, And we go to theme and when we come

Xhafer:

Back.

Xhafer:

, share it and gets news of the arrival of the ship and tries to plan accordingly.

Xhafer:

We cut to space TSA where Franklin is helping a ranger in Chicago, just kind

Xhafer:

of pops out of the shadows to be useful.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's like, oh, I'm here.

Xhafer:

I can carry him.

Xhafer:

I can, I can handle the non guards.

Xhafer:

Don't worry about any of it.

Laura:

Yeah, he's doing a lot of big, useful these last few episodes.

Xhafer:

This is not an accident.

Xhafer:

I feel like he's floating around in the shadows around Dylan.

Xhafer:

Looking to be useful to her.

Xhafer:

Knowing that she's on the thing.

Xhafer:

And she's going to have a say on whether or not he gets invited to the cool kids

Xhafer:

club that he desperately wants to join.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He asked Sheridan last time to join and share it and said, well,

Laura:

I got to talk to the others.

Laura:

So now he's sucking up to the others.

Laura:

It makes sense.

Laura:

It's a very solid strategy.

Xhafer:

Over on ISN, we hear that Mars.

Xhafer:

Isn't going to Institute martial law.

Laura:

Dun dun down.

Xhafer:

The Alexander then arrives at Babylon five.

Xhafer:

Comms on the station are killed and Sheridan gives everyone

Xhafer:

a chance to just peace out.

Xhafer:

He's just like, Hey.

Xhafer:

This is the Alexander they're leading the rebellion.

Xhafer:

We're helping them out.

Xhafer:

If you've got a problem with that, you can piece and then he stares.

Xhafer:

Directly at Corwin.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's like, now's the time to leave.

Xhafer:

And he just like, oh, I'm good.

Laura:

I'm fine.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We we've seriously misjudged Lieutenant Corwin.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Well, he didn't have a chance.

Xhafer:

The pork.

Laura:

Yeah, he w he did not.

Laura:

That was a bad set up all around.

Xhafer:

We get a bit here in CNC, their humanity got them into

Xhafer:

this mess and their humanities.

Xhafer:

The only thing that will get them out of it.

Xhafer:

The very term is racist.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

In in the future for sure.

Xhafer:

Um,

Laura:

That's what we should use.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

Over in MetaLab our ranger updates us.

Xhafer:

The league of not aligned worlds is very splintered.

Xhafer:

They're constantly infighting because of shadow influence.

Xhafer:

And when the grid, this was brought before the grid council, the

Xhafer:

great council was like, fuck up.

Laura:

Yup.

Xhafer:

We're not an international police force.

Xhafer:

Let Russia handle it.

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

Always a good choice.

Xhafer:

After this major Ryan comes aboard.

Xhafer:

And we learned that general HEG was killed off.

Xhafer:

Because he chose to do an episode of deep space nine over filming, basically

Xhafer:

the same role over here on Babylon five.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Is that it that's what it was.

Xhafer:

That's what it was.

Laura:

man.

Xhafer:

talk about how this has all happened.

Xhafer:

Uh, Between it bringing peace with martial law, stopping crime back home.

Xhafer:

Sheraton notes.

Xhafer:

This is the piece of the gun.

Xhafer:

And it's very oppressive.

Xhafer:

And then also how just Clark has been on free speech in general.

Xhafer:

Organizing has been nearly impossible for the rebellion and anyone who would have

Xhafer:

said anything has already been arrested.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And then we learned that clerks loyalist, military has been

Xhafer:

bombing Mars in response to the refusal to . Implement martial law.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The Len.

Xhafer:

Pissed about the inaction of the gray council is like, fuck them.

Xhafer:

I'll go yell at them.

Xhafer:

Linear you're in charge.

Xhafer:

It was just like, okay.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

At this point, my husband was like, man, it's really disappointing

Laura:

when they keep having to write people off because they're not.

Laura:

You know, the actor's not going to be around for the episode.

Laura:

And I was like, well, that's not what's happening this time.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Laura:

Because, yeah, he, he thought that she was just going

Laura:

back to minbar for other things.

Laura:

And I was like, Nope, Nope, no, no, no.

Laura:

We're, we're doing something here.

Xhafer:

She does a leave, a kind word for Jakarta his growth before leaving.

Xhafer:

And right as she weaves the

Xhafer:

Churchill arrives.

Xhafer:

Which is another rebellion.

Xhafer:

Earth Alliance destroyer, which are the big ships with the

Xhafer:

rotating bits of the destroyers.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And then the ones that look like submarines are cruisers.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Gotcha.

Laura:

So, so we've got the church hill and that's captain Sandra Hiroshi.

Laura:

I believe.

Xhafer:

No relation to Senator Hiroshi.

Xhafer:

Uh, It has confirmed by JMS.

Xhafer:

On Usenet.

Xhafer:

If anyone noticed that and was curious ISN notes that the bombings of Mars

Xhafer:

will continue until morale improves.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And then we get breaking news that the earth colonies of Ryan seven and

Xhafer:

Proxima three have declared independence.

Xhafer:

They do the coolest thing here.

Xhafer:

It's very subtle.

Xhafer:

They never call attention to it.

Xhafer:

And it's the only time I think that this happens in the entire show.

Laura:

What's

Xhafer:

Every time we see ISN.

Xhafer:

Unless it is at a reporter on the station.

Xhafer:

We see them through the hard camera lens on the desk.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

this happens.

Xhafer:

There's no visual effects to make it look like they're coming

Xhafer:

through a television signal.

Xhafer:

Like the normally is there's no degradation or anything.

Xhafer:

It is the normal camera.

Xhafer:

Just offset.

Xhafer:

We are not watching an ISN report.

Xhafer:

We are watching what is happening in the building.

Xhafer:

Like we are part of these characters lives now.

Xhafer:

In a way that we only ever get for the characters on Babylon five

Xhafer:

or when we follow them elsewhere.

Xhafer:

So cool.

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

Well, and the reason is ISN is getting shut down.

Xhafer:

You know, soldiers are storming the building.

Xhafer:

And if we hear explosions go off.

Xhafer:

All this stuff.

Xhafer:

I think without that camera change.

Xhafer:

This doesn't feel real.

Laura:

Yeah, I think you're right.

Laura:

It feels like we're watching something taped and we really don't

Laura:

want that feeling at this moment.

Xhafer:

No, we need to know this is actually happening to ISN.

Xhafer:

We need to not question.

Xhafer:

if this is propaganda of some variety, this is a thing that is happening.

Xhafer:

and we feel closer to it and more a part of it because of that camera change.

Xhafer:

, whether it's something that you noticed, listener, or.

Xhafer:

It's that kind of subtle camera work and change that can directly

Xhafer:

impact how you feel about something.

Xhafer:

And

Xhafer:

As someone who's I've, I've, you know, I've talked about

Xhafer:

my cinema background briefly.

Xhafer:

I studied cinema for a little bit in.

Xhafer:

Uh, This is the kind of stuff that I always super a pretty shade

Xhafer:

that, that just that little bit.

Xhafer:

That really just helps sell it so much.

Xhafer:

It was so good.

Xhafer:

Infinite praise upon this scene.

Xhafer:

Perfect.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And the thing of.

Laura:

For me about ISN is that we kind of know them as sort of a propaganda arm.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

We've seen them attempt to.

Laura:

You know, make an attempt at, shall we say fair and balanced because we

Laura:

had a now for a word where we spoke.

Laura:

To share it and then had shared his point of view.

Laura:

But we also spoke to that slimy Senator don't remember his name.

Laura:

Don't care.

Laura:

and.

Laura:

Uh, Had the two points of view.

Laura:

Even though they've been a little bit propaganda, a Clark cannot risk them.

Laura:

Doing two sides.

Laura:

And so ISN must go.

Xhafer:

After this.

Xhafer:

In Sheridan's office.

Xhafer:

We learned that B five is going to be attacked shortly.

Xhafer:

By the Agrippa and the Roanoke.

Xhafer:

Man, what a, what a shitty named for a ship?

Xhafer:

The Roanoke.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I think

Xhafer:

We're going to name this shift after this missing colony.

Xhafer:

No, that's not a bad omen at all.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Oh also joined by the gripper and the Roanoke, the Titanic.

Xhafer:

Hopefully they make it.

Xhafer:

Oh, what's that they're supported by the Hindenburg.

Xhafer:

I just like, I'm like, mm.

Xhafer:

Anyways.

Xhafer:

They prepped the station for attack.

Xhafer:

They've got six hours or less before the shit hits the fan.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We cut over to the gray council.

Xhafer:

And Dylan chastise them for being stubborn shits disconnected.

Xhafer:

And self-serving.

Xhafer:

She grabs the speaking conch and throws it on the ground and breaks it.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Some of them.

Xhafer:

Listen.

Laura:

Yeah, we see some of them leave this circle that.

Laura:

It's supposed to be unbroken.

Laura:

Some of

Xhafer:

was prophesized to broken.

Xhafer:

She does say that.

Xhafer:

The gray council will break.

Xhafer:

It has been prophesized.

Xhafer:

So.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

She's like now's the time guys.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

wouldn't easy prophesy to make one day the government will change.

Laura:

Well, I mean, considering how long the mid Bari have kept

Laura:

things the same, you know, it.

Xhafer:

That's fair.

Laura:

it's impressive.

Laura:

How long they've kept it together.

Xhafer:

That's fair.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's a long time.

Xhafer:

They live a long time.

Laura:

maybe it's the long lifespans.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, nobody likes change when they, they have to live through it.

Laura:

So they just don't.

Laura:

But yeah, it's interesting that the cash she's going up against is

Laura:

the very, you know, Cast for war.

Laura:

The warrior cast, it seems like are the holdouts because she specifically

Laura:

states the religious cast and the worker cast will do this without you.

Laura:

And they get to it and that's presumably who's following her out.

Laura:

Is those two casts?

Laura:

But of course they're all wearing their potato sex.

Laura:

So we don't really know, but.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we don't.

Xhafer:

I mean, even if we saw them.

Xhafer:

But it's, there's like the one person we can identify as religious

Xhafer:

cast and there's like the one we can identify as warrior cast.

Xhafer:

That we know are on the gray council.

Xhafer:

So.

Xhafer:

It's not going to help us a ton.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Meanwhile.

Xhafer:

Sheraton calls home.

Laura:

He's going to talk to daddy.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

He knows that this is the last chance to talk for awhile.

Xhafer:

he muses the gold channel for military contact to call his dad.

Xhafer:

Well, I call his parents.

Xhafer:

His mom's just out.

Laura:

Yeah, right.

Laura:

But his dad is the one that we have heard fun stories of already.

Laura:

So we know he has a, a good relationship with his dad and

Laura:

his dad is a very folksy guy.

Laura:

It's a very.

Laura:

Gee, golly.

Laura:

Kinda man.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Xhafer:

Well, you got to shovel the shit.

Xhafer:

Sometimes son.

Xhafer:

That's what it's like when you're raising pigs is like just very like no bullshit.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And you're like was shared and supposed to be from Iowa.

Laura:

But I remember him talking about his dad and orange blossoms.

Laura:

So I'm like, Wouldn't that be where like

Laura:

Florida

Laura:

. I don't know.

Xhafer:

Koelbel warming.

Laura:

Oh, true.

Laura:

But look forward to all those Iowa farmers, Planting their oranges

Laura:

here in a couple of decades.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

They have a really cute heart to heart.

Xhafer:

And it's the craziest thing.

Xhafer:

Maybe this happened to you too.

Xhafer:

But did you notice that at the exact moment?

Xhafer:

that this was happening, someone in your house started chopping

Xhafer:

onions right next to you?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, it is very sweet.

Laura:

And I also noticed that, you know, one thing that my husband has been

Laura:

just baffled by is the just Desley newness of Bruce box lighteners teeth.

Laura:

He's very good teeth.

Laura:

Kevin Sheridan

Laura:

has.

Laura:

They're they're very good teeth.

Laura:

Like.

Laura:

He was Googling, trying to figure out if they were veneers or not.

Laura:

You look at the actor that they got for David Sheridan.

Laura:

John's dad.

Laura:

He also has a very good teeth.

Laura:

It's very interesting.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yup.

Laura:

They got, they nailed it.

Laura:

Nailed it.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He, he tells 'em.

Laura:

John that he's got to do what he's got to do and it's okay.

Laura:

And don't worry about us.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

We'll be fine.

Xhafer:

Son.

Xhafer:

The neighbors like us, so we'll hide out.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Sheridan uses draws holographic projection system to declare independence

Xhafer:

for Babylon five from the Earth Alliance.

Xhafer:

After this,

Xhafer:

Showing up in hallways, the Zocalo all over.

Laura:

Is he in everyone's

Xhafer:

over.

Xhafer:

That's what I wanted to know, because we've seen that this goes

Xhafer:

into people's personal quarters.

Xhafer:

A number of times.

Xhafer:

You know, someone was dropping a deuce and had this interrupt them.

Xhafer:

And, and we see a change size too.

Xhafer:

So like, you know, it's like six inches in front of you and one of

Xhafer:

those super tiny Quarters bathrooms.

Xhafer:

I don't even have showers or tiny little bath.

Xhafer:

so there's no way.

Xhafer:

Uh, that definitely happened.

Laura:

If you're just, you know, Joe blow on the toilet and shared in his, telling

Laura:

you about his declaration of independence.

Laura:

Uh, Do you know that he can't see you?

Xhafer:

You've never been exposed to trials, holographic projection system.

Xhafer:

You don't know what's going on with the great machine on Epsilon three.

Xhafer:

It's Sharon and watching me poop.

Xhafer:

Right now,

Xhafer:

I mean, inquiring, I'm the finest humor on Who are you,

Xhafer:

. Laura: Inquiring minds need to know.

Xhafer:

This is very important.

Xhafer:

We ask the hard questions to fair.

Xhafer:

At least the stinky ones.

Xhafer:

Uh, After this Ivanova is asking, maybe we should have asked Raul for help.

Xhafer:

They've got, you know, that super advanced weaponry on the planet that, you know,

Xhafer:

no one's able to ever get through.

Laura:

Yeah, she's so fucking right.

Xhafer:

And it's all like, oh, maybe next time it won't be that bad.

Xhafer:

And then it starts.

Xhafer:

Most everyone sticks around CNC uh, accord included.

Xhafer:

We got like one guy who takes off his headset and it's all like, fuck this.

Laura:

Yeah, there's too much, man.

Xhafer:

And we've got And two destroyers to stand against

Xhafer:

whoever's coming and immediately.

Xhafer:

Jumped point opens and two destroyers in two cruisers.

Xhafer:

Come in demanding surrender.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's a lot of ships.

Xhafer:

The destroyers we know can do damage like the.

Xhafer:

The destroyers are the ships from after the Every war.

Xhafer:

They are the advanced ones.

Xhafer:

They're the ones that we've been told can go toe to toe with

Xhafer:

Suntory ship, the heavy cruisers.

Xhafer:

Like these are these, these ships do not fuck around.

Xhafer:

The cruisers.

Xhafer:

Are the survivors of the Ah, what's the war.

Xhafer:

What's the war before them in Bari war.

Laura:

The Dell Gar.

Laura:

The

Laura:

Dell Gar.

Xhafer:

the Dover.

Xhafer:

Yup.

Xhafer:

The cruisers are post Our war, but pre-me and Bari war ships.

Xhafer:

They are not nearly as advanced and are

Xhafer:

Not a threat.

Xhafer:

like we see a destroyer in the opening seat of this, just like

Xhafer:

refuse to fire on one is it's being a nuisance, trying to get them.

Xhafer:

And eventually they're just like, we can't bring the fighters back

Xhafer:

unless we destroy this thing.

Xhafer:

So they have to destroy it and they just one shot the fucker.

Xhafer:

These things are not a concern.

Xhafer:

But two destroyers is a big deal.

Xhafer:

So I would not say that the station, knowing that it has taken out.

Xhafer:

One of those darn heavy cruisers.

Xhafer:

I'd say the station is probably four to five, equal to a destroyer.

Xhafer:

And that there's a strong advantage here.

Xhafer:

For the home team as it were.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

The, the disadvantage to the station has is it cannot move.

Laura:

But they did get a really state of the art system back in.

Laura:

Season two, was it

Laura:

Or

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Yeah, Franklin's dad brought it over his good job.

Laura:

That's right.

Xhafer:

Took care of that.

Xhafer:

Sheridan tells them that they're fascists and they can get fucked.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And the fascist open fire and are fired upon in return.

Xhafer:

We get cool space fight.

Xhafer:

It's super graphics, heavy.

Xhafer:

Troops began assaulting the station and we see security getting position to fight.

Xhafer:

There's a really nice touch here.

Xhafer:

If you look at security, as they're marching down the hallways to

Xhafer:

go fight the fascists, all the Nightwatch posters are ripped up.

Laura:

Yeah, I did notice that we haven't been able to get them all down

Laura:

yet, but we've certainly maimed them.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we're defacing all these things at least.

Xhafer:

And we get slow and dramatic music for our firefight.

Xhafer:

Oh yeah.

Xhafer:

Ivanova jumped at a star theory.

Xhafer:

We met.

Xhafer:

We forgot to mention that.

Xhafer:

To help lead the attack.

Xhafer:

We get slow and sad, dramatic music for our firefight and CNC

Xhafer:

is attacked by some fascist star.

Xhafer:

Fury's.

Xhafer:

The Churchill is about to explode.

Xhafer:

And so rather than just explode, they Ram themselves into one of the other

Xhafer:

destroyers, taking them both out.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Hiroshi.

Laura:

Makes the classic kamikaze move and says, if I have to go down.

Laura:

You're

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The Alexander and the Babylon five, both target the Agrippa and

Xhafer:

they take it out of the fight as the ship kind of like implodes.

Xhafer:

It doesn't explode.

Xhafer:

It like burns itself out from the inside.

Xhafer:

It was something we haven't really seen before.

Xhafer:

Um,

Laura:

me think.

Laura:

It made

Laura:

me think that they were so badly.

Laura:

Damaged that they went ahead and like, Self-destructed themselves.

Xhafer:

Yeah, that might be what the self-destruct looks like.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

The, like, they knew that they weren't going out and they did,

Laura:

they didn't want to be captured.

Laura:

And so they just blew themselves up.

Xhafer:

The station is not in good.

Xhafer:

Uh, Neither is the Alexander, but the fighting seems to be if stopped.

Xhafer:

When a Jumpcut opens and two more destroyers and a cruiser come in.

Xhafer:

And demand surrender of the station.

Xhafer:

as this happens, four more jump points form on top of the station.

Xhafer:

And it's Dylan with foreman Bari, cruisers.

Xhafer:

And we get probably the Mo one of the most bad-ass lines of the entire series.

Xhafer:

Probably only second to Ivana was God of death.

Xhafer:

That's coming.

Xhafer:

down the line.

Xhafer:

it's

Xhafer:

great.

Xhafer:

Just Play the clip.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I will listen to that for forever.

Laura:

I the whole episode affair I was sitting there.

Laura:

And annoying my husband going.

Laura:

The best line of this entire show is coming up in this episode, it's going to

Laura:

be this episode.

Xhafer:

It's great.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

You'll know, you'll know.

Xhafer:

Yeah, no, it's it's excellent.

Xhafer:

Dylan just.

Xhafer:

Lays it down.

Xhafer:

And the, the two ships, the two destroyers that arrived in our,

Xhafer:

the Olympus and the Nimrod.

Laura:

you serious?

. Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

somebody else needs to be in charge of ship naming.

Xhafer:

When they

Xhafer:

got

Xhafer:

away from the all the, Greek shit.

Xhafer:

I like all the original disorders I'll have like very Greek names.

Xhafer:

It's like the Alexander and the egg M M dot.

Xhafer:

Don.

Xhafer:

You know, in the Olympus and then it's the Nimrod.

Laura:

You did bad.

Laura:

You did a bad job.

Laura:

Can you imagine being The

Laura:

crew?

Xhafer:

Of the Nimrod.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's named for it's a thing.

Xhafer:

Like, it's not just like the green day album or the modern Houston slang.

Laura:

Yeah, but it's become such a colloquial thing.

Laura:

Like, oh man.

Xhafer:

Uh, Nimrod is a biblical figure in the book of Genesis.

Xhafer:

He's the great grandson of Noah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Wasn't aware.

Laura:

He doesn't have a good rep.

Laura:

That's for sure.

Xhafer:

A mighty hunter before the Lord.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Oh, good for him.

Xhafer:

I guess.

Xhafer:

Anyways.

Xhafer:

They piece.

Xhafer:

The fighting and brown sector is over and JMS shows us his pile of dead bodies.

Xhafer:

He likes to remind us that war is hell.

Xhafer:

Jerry Doyle.

Xhafer:

Actually broke his leg while shooting this.

Laura:

Oh, dang.

Xhafer:

So the bit with him, like they added that little bit in with

Xhafer:

Zach helping him up cuz of his leg to write in him breaking his leg.

Laura:

Oh

Xhafer:

Uh, Or has he broke his arm?

Xhafer:

He broke his arm.

Xhafer:

He broke something while

Laura:

I think it's like, because he's

Laura:

using a cane later in the scene.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

But he uh, shot the rest of the day with the broken limb.

Laura:

Oh, my God.

Xhafer:

He had like two or three scenes left to do, and he just did

Xhafer:

them and then went to the hospital.

Laura:

That makes me want to Google and see if he had a cat.

Laura:

I like an arm cast too, but he definitely was beat up.

Laura:

I remember the cane.

Laura:

So is this scene?

Laura:

Well, you know, they're this whole thing where they're rushing in.

Laura:

fighting.

Laura:

Off this invading force is this.

Laura:

Babylon squared.

Laura:

Is this what he sees?

Xhafer:

So.

Xhafer:

I was convinced until our most recent watch of that episode.

Laura:

Uh, huh.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

This is what he was foreseeing.

Xhafer:

And I think it's definitely framed to kind of look that way.

Xhafer:

There's definitely some similarities.

Xhafer:

But we find out.

Xhafer:

In the episode, they talk about it and it's a flash back.

Xhafer:

To Mars.

Xhafer:

We hear about, and he doesn't have a flash forward.

Xhafer:

He has a flashback.

Laura:

Oh, okay.

Laura:

Cause it definitely

Xhafer:

he doesn't see the future in this one.

Xhafer:

Oh, for sure.

Xhafer:

It's super similar and I don't think that's an accident.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It feels a lot like a flash forward.

Laura:

We just don't have Sinclair.

Xhafer:

Yeah, she's the parlance of George Lucas.

Xhafer:

It's like they're rhyming.

Xhafer:

. So after this, and we're in Sheridan's

Xhafer:

Majors Ryan, the Churchill had a bunch of fighters that the Alexander can't take on.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

. So if there's room at Babylon, five for them, then they should take them.

Xhafer:

So they get an influx of fighter pilots that are trained and new ships.

Xhafer:

Including some of those new,

Xhafer:

star theories that have the long nose.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We don't want to have the torpedoes problem that the

Laura:

star Trek Voyager should have.

Laura:

Where we have a finite number of these little fighters.

Laura:

Uh, At some point somebody picked up Ivanova we find out that she's okay.

Laura:

She did like half to eject from her star theory.

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

of the firefight.

Xhafer:

up, but she's fine.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Sheridan and leaves his uniform coat.

Xhafer:

In his office.

Xhafer:

He says, he's not going to wear it until earth is restored.

Xhafer:

All night watch is being shipped off the station, but they worry

Xhafer:

about those that they didn't get.

Xhafer:

Sabotaging the station.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Valid fear.

Xhafer:

Dylan comes aboard and we get some fun.

Xhafer:

A little late for some flirty there.

Xhafer:

Oh, flirty

Xhafer:

Senior staff.

Xhafer:

comes into frame to bring us to the Zocalo where people are celebrating

Xhafer:

the fight against fascism.

Xhafer:

To the credits.

Xhafer:

Laura, what'd you think of this episode on a scale of Babylon, one to five.

Laura:

I mean, this is, is a Babylon five for me.

Laura:

The only thing that I wish was different was that we'd gotten general Haig.

Laura:

We already had an emotional attachment to general Haig.

Laura:

We've seen him before twice.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

I wish we could have that actor instead of like, oops, he's dead.

Laura:

Here's this major.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And we

Laura:

That's.

Xhafer:

major back either.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That, that was the one thing that we can get for me.

Laura:

Was that we didn't have that emotional connection that we

Laura:

already had to that person.

Xhafer:

Yeah, this episode is great.

Xhafer:

If this episode were in lake five episodes from now, it would

Xhafer:

be a five out of five for me.

Xhafer:

But in the context of the three parter.

Laura:

Hm.

Xhafer:

It is not as strong as the episode proceeding it.

Xhafer:

In my opinion.

Xhafer:

And so I'm going with like a 4, 7, 5 out of five.

Laura:

You get a discount and see, that's how I feel.

Laura:

I feel like the, the general Hague thing for me.

Laura:

Does discount it compared to last episode, like.

Laura:

Last episode had all of the pieces.

Laura:

All right.

Laura:

In place.

Laura:

We get major Barrett.

Laura:

And now.

Laura:

We're missing that really?

Laura:

And he was a really great actor for general.

Laura:

Hey, not that you know, the Bruce McGill is any slouch.

Laura:

I mean.

Laura:

He came in to a difficult spot where he had to have some emotional gravitas

Laura:

about this character that we already had, that we weren't getting back.

Laura:

And he did a good job with it.

Laura:

Like.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Laura:

A great time, but.

Laura:

Gosh, if it could have just been just that little bit different.

Laura:

I would have.

Laura:

I wouldn't have any complaints about it.

Laura:

I wouldn't have anything to say.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it's a great episode.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Xhafer:

Uh, Next up, we've got season three, episode 11 ceremonies of light and dark.

Xhafer:

When Babylon five officially declares independence, Nightwatch

Xhafer:

terrorists, kidnapped a Len.

Xhafer:

Londo X against Tori aggression.

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

It's interesting that that is our season mid season finale.

Laura:

If you will.

Laura:

And not this episode, this had big mid-season finale energy, but it's not.

Xhafer:

Well, it's the series midpoint to So I think it's just.

Xhafer:

It's kind of all, you know, like the three parter.

Xhafer:

I don't know.

Xhafer:

I don't think it was particularly structured with mid season finale in mind.

Xhafer:

I don't think that's something that really existed until the scifi

Xhafer:

channel and Battlestar Galactica.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I didn't know if we'd took mid-season breaks back then, but it feels like

Laura:

if we were going to take a break.

Laura:

We do it now.

Laura:

But.

Xhafer:

sure.

Laura:

I would say that having not watched ceremonies of light and dark yet.

Laura:

So

Xhafer:

Neither have I.

Laura:

there may be some stuff.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Give and take a break.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we're taking the next couple of weeks off while I'm on vacation.

Xhafer:

So you won't hear an interruption listener.

Xhafer:

But we have a couple of weeks.

Xhafer:

Before we'll be w we won't be recording again for another three weeks.

Xhafer:

Probably.

Xhafer:

So.

Laura:

It's going to be a bit,

Xhafer:

your time off.

Laura:

a great time.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

I'm going to be having a great time.

Xhafer:

You've got it.

Xhafer:

It's Christmas.

Xhafer:

It's new.

Xhafer:

Year's.

Xhafer:

Yeah, stuff going on.

Xhafer:

That'd be a good time for everyone.

Xhafer:

I hope everyone has a good time.

Xhafer:

Especially Jeremy Siegel, who wrote our lovely theme music.

Xhafer:

You can find more of Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel.

Xhafer:

40 two.bandcamp.com.

Laura:

And wishing the happiest of holidays to angry deck time machine.

Laura:

On Instagram.

Xhafer:

Even though it's January 18th, when this

Xhafer:

airs.

Xhafer:

Thank you to our editor.

Xhafer:

Aaron really appreciate you.

Xhafer:

And we really appreciate everyone who listens to the podcast and

Xhafer:

interacts in our community.

Xhafer:

We've got an awesome discord.

Xhafer:

You should join.

Xhafer:

Send us an email.

Xhafer:

Who are you?

Xhafer:

At gmail.com.

Xhafer:

We'll read it on our next mailbag segment.

Xhafer:

And.

Xhafer:

I mean, it won't be as long for you listener, but I'll see you in a few weeks.

Xhafer:

Let's see you in a few weeks, Laura.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.