Episode 69

full
Published on:

15th Mar 2023

S3E17 - So Many Zathri

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer play some plot poker and aren't impressed with the results. Meanwhile, Sheridan gets a glimpse of a troubling future, the command staff continues with the plot to steal B4, and Sinclair embraces his destiny in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 17: War Without End Part 2.

Transcript
Laura:

Hello and welcome to, who Are You?

Laura:

It's a Babylon five watch cast by a couple of former strangers.

Laura:

Now friends who are continuing to get to know each other over one of their

Laura:

favorite shows from their childhood.

Laura:

Babylon.

Laura:

Five.

Laura:

I'm Laura,

Xhafer:

And Aire.

Laura:

and today we're gonna be playing our favorite game,

Xhafer:

Ooh, plot poker.

Xhafer:

So what we have is we have a bunch of packs of the Babylon

Xhafer:

five collectible card game.

Xhafer:

we're currently working our way through the shadows set, which is

Xhafer:

the first expansion to that game.

Xhafer:

And what we're gonna do is we're gonna open up a bunch of cards and

Xhafer:

we're gonna go ahead and organize them into one of four piles.

Xhafer:

Characters problems, solutions, and twists.

Xhafer:

And then we're gonna take one from each of these after shuffling 'em up.

Xhafer:

And we're going to form the alo and B plot of a hypothetical episode of Babylon

Xhafer:

five, which will describe and then rate on a scale of Babylon's one to five.

. Laura:

Everybody's favorite improv exercise, right?

Xhafer:

Honestly, I'm a big fan of this segment,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Well, Cards, they're very fun to open.

Laura:

I just want you to know that I've organized mine a little bit and I got

Laura:

these nifty boxes at vintage stock.

Laura:

They had previously been in a pile on this desk that you could not see, but

Laura:

it was very embarrassing and uh, now I have a system I'm very proud of myself.

Xhafer:

have four rappers from four different sets of the game.

Xhafer:

That I use for the different subjects or the different topics and then

Xhafer:

I put my little piles in there.

Xhafer:

Have you opened anything fun yet?

Xhafer:

We're opening like 10 packs today, so it's a bunch of stuff to go through.

Laura:

doing a bunch.

Laura:

I'm just going through my first one now.

Laura:

I have a lot of weird things it feels like.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I got a William Morgan Clark.

Laura:

what a good character get.

Xhafer:

I think I'm gonna put him in the problems actually,

Laura:

Oh, okay.

Laura:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura:

He is a big problem, isn't he?

Xhafer:

now that we've got like more than the couple of characters that came in

Xhafer:

the initial set, I've been trying to put characters in the problems and solutions

Laura:

I got in this first pack, I have the most interesting card,

Laura:

I think to me is telekinesis.

Laura:

I'm like, is telekinesis a problem, solution, or a twist?

Xhafer:

it could be any of the three.

Xhafer:

I mean, in the, in the episode, it's a twist.

Laura:

That's true.

Xhafer:

Ooh.

Xhafer:

I got the the actual shadow attack on Babel on five from the

Xhafer:

distress signal from last episode.

Laura:

Oh, how funny.

Laura:

That's a good screen grab.

Xhafer:

It is.

Laura:

Oh, I got another Z.

Xhafer:

Oh, which Atheros?

Laura:

This is Atheros with the apostrophe at the end.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

I have Atheros with the apostrophe in the middle.

Laura:

Oh, oh.

Laura:

I had two Atheros in one pack and this is between the A and the T is the

Laura:

apostrophe, so it's sort of the middle.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The So Ari

Laura:

I have to resist the urge to put every single Z

Laura:

atheros into my character pile.

Xhafer:

put 'em in your problems pile.

Xhafer:

Well put 'em in your solutions pile.

Laura:

one in my solutions pile.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Oh, here we go.

Xhafer:

Corrupted Destiny and it has kar choking out Lando.

Xhafer:

That's fun.

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

Ooh, slow poison with refa on the card.

Xhafer:

I'm gonna put that in my solutions pile.

Laura:

I was gonna say that can be a problem or a solution or a twist.

Laura:

So many of these are very flexible.

Laura:

Have we used Brother Theo yet?

Laura:

I know one of us has gotten Brother Theo

Xhafer:

I actually just also drew brother Theo.

Xhafer:

I have him in my solutions pile, but I don't think he's been played yet.

Xhafer:

Open packs reminds me of my childhood and also feels a little bit like gambling.

Xhafer:

Oh, it's my favorite card bureaucracy,

Xhafer:

all right, well, let's uh, let's get our episode together here.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Here goes nothing, a plot.

Laura:

He's going to start with Maryanne Kramer.

Laura:

Do you remember Maryanne Kramer?

Xhafer:

I do not remember Maryanne Kramer.

Xhafer:

Is she I s n?

Laura:

reporter.

Laura:

Yeah, so it's gonna be an I S N episode

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

we're gonna have Maryanne Kramer and Marion Kramer.

Laura:

Is on Babylon five.

Laura:

She is tracking down some vicious rumors about our command staff and

Laura:

their activities on Babylon five.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

of course, you know, because I s n is involved, maybe maybe the truth

Laura:

is being manipulated a little bit.

Laura:

Maybe these vicious rumors are being manipul.

Laura:

And our solution is that the command staff actually has to go on a rescue mission

Laura:

and they make the risky decision to bring Issn along to see how they really operate.

Laura:

show themselves, try to uh, make themselves look good.

Laura:

We've seen them do that with I s N a little bit

Laura:

like, and now for a word but this time they're, they're bringing

Laura:

them into the fold a little bit.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

We go on this rescue mission.

Laura:

But unfortunately it backfires on us.

Laura:

Issn has their spin.

Laura:

Doctors manipulate the editing.

Laura:

Of the episode and all it ends up doing is sewing more unrest back home.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

so what's the b plot happening at the same time?

Laura:

We've got this i s n

Xhafer:

While Mary.

Xhafer:

Comes to the station.

Xhafer:

So does Emperor Carta.

Laura:

Oh no

Xhafer:

and

Laura:

things we can manipulate.

Xhafer:

he's here because there's been a problem with Lord Maari.

Laura:

Lord Maari.

Xhafer:

Maari.

Xhafer:

So that's the upgraded Alando card.

Laura:

Okay, so he's, he's in the inner circle.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

M per cor taja.

Xhafer:

There's something with Malar that he's gotta settle and he

Xhafer:

leaves Centura Prime to do it.

Xhafer:

So he comes to Seeland and there is a fleet of centara ships as well.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Are they involved in our rescue mission?

Xhafer:

It's a colonial fleet.

Xhafer:

So this fleet comes in Their question throughout the episode is, are they

Xhafer:

going to be taking Malawi away?

Xhafer:

Are they loyal to Malawi?

Xhafer:

Who are these people loyal to?

Xhafer:

Because there's always kind of an underpinning of who actually runs

Xhafer:

the military with the Centara.

Xhafer:

So we don't really know.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

But what ends up happening is there's some unforeseen incentives.

Xhafer:

So the fleet comes in, they don't side with anyone.

Xhafer:

And Carta is just kind of.

Xhafer:

Oh, delightful.

Xhafer:

And is kinda weird, but is all like, oh, I'll just take

Xhafer:

this fleet back home with me.

Xhafer:

And now Malawi is kind of like the, he, he gets the incentive of having this

Xhafer:

fleet, knowing that they're not going to like capture him, but also that the

Xhafer:

emperor is not super pissed at him.

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

You don't want Carta super pissed at you for sure.

Laura:

We're gonna find that out

Laura:

very soon, I think.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

So how do you rate this episode

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

I don't know if we've ever rated our own episodes badly.

Xhafer:

I think we're about to

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like this doesn't do a lot to

Laura:

move any plot forward for us.

Laura:

Emperor Carta is always fun to observe.

Laura:

Um, But I think I'd, I'd give this one about a two.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It feels kind of weird.

Xhafer:

It doesn't really feel like it's doing much another I s N thing,

Xhafer:

but it doesn't work out for them.

Xhafer:

We've seen that Cartha Coming to the station I think is new,

Xhafer:

but I'm not really feeling it.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

they can't all be winners.

Laura:

We did our best

Xhafer:

But what is a winner is season three episode 17,

Xhafer:

episode without blots part two.

Xhafer:

Uh, It's War without End.

Xhafer:

We get a last time on.

Xhafer:

I don't know that we've gotten one of these in babble on five.

Laura:

Yeah,

Laura:

it's, if it has, it's been a minute.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So we get caught up and then we open on Cent.

Xhafer:

Tori Prime Sheridan learns how far ahead he is in the timeline.

Xhafer:

17 years since the war started.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Orlando's very kind to set that scene for us

Laura:

cuz you were left wondering at the end of the last episode, and if you

Laura:

didn't, Immediately watch the next episode because we're in streaming land.

Laura:

Uh, you've been wondering for a moment.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And it's also like he even like teases us, like, he's not gonna tell us

Xhafer:

for a minute, , it'd be very j m s.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

It'll just be all like, oh, well we're at the year, hour, month,

Xhafer:

day of y, the end of your life.

Xhafer:

Of course, you know when that is

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

rude.

Laura:

Londo is very antagonistic.

Laura:

I think we see some more of that CGI burning footage.

Laura:

get to watch.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It really makes you wonder what has happened in between all this time.

Laura:

I think that's what really works for me about this whole flash

Laura:

forward plot is I love the mystery.

Laura:

I want to know what happens.

Laura:

I want to know so bad.

Laura:

How did we get here from there?

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And so after this, we cut back over to Babylon four.

Xhafer:

and it's totally not just redressed Babylon five CNC

Xhafer:

They change the colors of the lights and then also they film

Xhafer:

it from different camera angles.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

So every time we see it, normally when we're in c and c it's very kinda

Xhafer:

like top down or eye level right here.

Xhafer:

It's all looking up.

Xhafer:

I thought it was a very interesting choice, like the cameras are in the

Xhafer:

control pit looking up, like there's a big walkway there, but that's just where

Xhafer:

like core wind sits and stuff is where the camera is this time and we see it later.

Xhafer:

It's like through the exit doors, like in the very back.

Laura:

Yeah, I, I feel like everything about their Babylon

Laura:

four sets looks very cheap.

Xhafer:

It's all just babble on five sets.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent.

Xhafer:

Like we see the zocalo later and stuff, but it's just empty.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And we've, if we've had to slap something on it, it's kind of green

Laura:

and yellow instead of blue and purple.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

, and it's got the B four logo.

Xhafer:

, which someone was complaining on the internet, looked like a three, but

Xhafer:

it's a B with a four wedged into it, so it kinda looks like a backwards

Xhafer:

three if you kind of look at it weird, but it's totally just B four

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I definitely feel like everything that they put together for

Laura:

this was a little bit cheaper.

Laura:

I understand why, cuz we spent a lot of money on that war

Laura:

room That looks real nice.

Laura:

So we gotta we gotta pull it back somewhere.

Laura:

I get it.

Laura:

The c n C has detected the explosion that was out in our last episode out

Laura:

in space when the Warp Corps blew.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

They are looking for saboteurs.

Laura:

They are concerned that there's somebody nearby

Laura:

who wants to blow up this station as well.

Laura:

Hey, I didn't ask you in the last episode

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

and I meant to,

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

cuz we know that bad things happen to babylon's one

Laura:

through three, two as well.

Laura:

two was a bad choice of words for that.

Laura:

Do we think that there could have been shadow involvement in those bad things

Laura:

happening in one through three as well?

Xhafer:

No,

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

is definitive.

Xhafer:

This is from jms.

Xhafer:

Cuz someone asked this exact question on Usenet

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Because it's sort of out there, right?

Laura:

Like I'm not crazy for wondering.

Xhafer:

So he says that the shadows didn't recognize Babylon

Xhafer:

four until it was completed.

Laura:

Okay, so they didn't have any bad feels about one through three.

Xhafer:

One through three did get far enough through the

Xhafer:

building process to be noticed

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

because they were destroyed very, very early on,

Xhafer:

well, partially destroyed.

Xhafer:

They were made inoperable to the point where they had to start over a chunk.

Xhafer:

Most of Babylon four, like a, at least a third of Babylon.

Xhafer:

Four is actually Babylon.

Xhafer:

Three is actually Babylon.

Xhafer:

Two, like they reused decent chunks of the station to rebuild, and only

Xhafer:

Babylon four was so completely lost that they had to start from scratch

Xhafer:

with a new design for Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's true because it became so unstuck in time.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I, I'm with that.

Laura:

I just wondered when we were talking about it.

Xhafer:

No, no, it's a good question.

Xhafer:

It's just one that happened to be already answered.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So anyways, Krantz is sending out some security guards to

Xhafer:

find the saboteur and Ivanova gets caught in a hallway to theme like

Xhafer:

Marcus is gonna let this happen.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We know Marcus didn't go anywhere.

Laura:

Like he's got a VOT of his back.

Laura:

We know how he

Xhafer:

Yeah, he's gone when the guards show up and then jumps out of the ceiling

Xhafer:

and takes 'em out and ivanna's just like, how did you know they were gonna attack?

Xhafer:

He's like, I didn't.

Xhafer:

It just would've been the worst possible time.

Xhafer:

So I prepared for that contingency

Laura:

Yeah, I realized as if Vva was getting caught, I was like, oh, you

Laura:

know, the uniform change is a bad thing right here because if she was wearing

Laura:

an Earth Force uniform, they would at least be confused for a second.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

But she's not in any earth force garb, and so they're immediately.

Laura:

Popping to saboteur rather than surprise.

Laura:

Inspection.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Sheridan jumps back and forth.

Xhafer:

The plan is about to go off and then Sheridan jumps back and is there.

Xhafer:

and we get some details about the future.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

They have

Laura:

details, right?

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

and their first kiss for Sheridan

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

I made sure to point that out to my husband.

Laura:

I was like, this, this is the first kiss.

Xhafer:

Yeah, for one of them.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

And it's a very uh, intimate first kiss.

Laura:

You would say

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Well I feel like of the two Deln is gonna be the one who gives the reserved first

Xhafer:

kiss and she's like, this is my husband.

Xhafer:

We're about to die.

Xhafer:

It's make out time.

Laura:

It's very cute.

Laura:

I couldn't help but smile.

Laura:

Yeah, so he, he had been unstuck for a moment and Zs has seen him.

Laura:

So Zaris now knows, like sums up.

Laura:

Gotta do something about this.

Laura:

But he's Sheridan's still primarily in Centura Prime right now.

Laura:

Like that is where he's at.

Laura:

So we've got a son.

Laura:

We've got passionate Kiss.

Laura:

And then Dylan also says some like really sad stuff

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

his, his future is full of pain and grief.

Laura:

Yikes.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

But it's not all bad.

Xhafer:

They created something that will live for a thousand years.

Xhafer:

They have a son named David.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

While this is going on, the plan to fake a whole breach works.

Xhafer:

So our crew on Babylon four has bought themselves some space and some time,

Xhafer:

But Sheridan and Dalen are summoned Tolando again.

Laura:

very drunk.

Laura:

Wado

Xhafer:

He is drunker than me at a Kesha concert.

Laura:

Is he maybe The kind of non-functional that one gets when they

Laura:

have too much weed and watch cats.

Xhafer:

He is definitely more functional than I was then.

Laura:

That's, that's where my mind went.

Laura:

I was like, Hmm, He has a reason for being so drunk that he

Laura:

elucidates to Sheridan and Lynn.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

He introduces us to his Keep.

Xhafer:

This weird little eye thing on his shoulder.

Laura:

This thing is so creepy.

Laura:

I was fascinated by this

Laura:

thing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I wanted to know more.

Laura:

I wanted to know how the hell we got here.

Laura:

I wanted to know what this is, where it came from.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

It's one of those things that it's, this show sets it up so nicely.

Laura:

You know, there's gonna be this big deal later, but you

Laura:

don't know how you got there.

Laura:

Everything about what happens to Sonari Prime in these 17

Laura:

years is fascinating for me.

Xhafer:

we will see these keepers again.

Xhafer:

But this one has uh, lost, it's, it's slowly gaining a tolerance for.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

Lando notes, so there's not a lot of time here, but they have some time,

Xhafer:

Free from the keeper.

Xhafer:

Controlling Lando, like a puppeteer

Laura:

He tells them he did not want to be a big asshole earlier.

Laura:

Basically, he really does believe that Sheridan and Dalen are

Laura:

the best hope he has for Sonari

Xhafer:

Prophecy Watch.

Xhafer:

So the prophecy is don't kill the one who is already dead.

Laura:

Mm.

Xhafer:

And given this episode, don't kill the one who is already dead.

Xhafer:

I think we can put emphasis on some different words there.

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

Now we know that this is both Sheridan and Dalen by the end of this

Xhafer:

episode are both considered the one,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Could tie in there.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

We don't wanna kill them.

Laura:

Maybe perhaps

Laura:

and Alando certainly doesn't.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He gives them his bug out bag, and he's like, there's a car waiting out back.

Xhafer:

And then Kar comes out of the shadows and Lando asked Kar to kill him.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He, he knows that the keeper's not gonna stay asleep long enough.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The line here.

Xhafer:

Oh,

Laura:

Aw

Xhafer:

Uh,

Xhafer:

so Kar starts to choke Lando to kill him, and Land's Keeper Awakens,

Xhafer:

and they choke each other to death, just like Lando knew they would.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We've seen this before.

Laura:

We have seen these two choking

Laura:

each other to death.

Laura:

I wanted to say one more thing about this scene too.

Laura:

You know, sometimes in our remastered versions of older shows, you get these

Laura:

scenes where we have the old makeup, you know, you know, the makeup that

Laura:

we cake it on and add some wrinkles

Xhafer:

The The Old's makeup.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Laura:

The old's makeup and sometimes it looks very bad.

Laura:

Uh, One show I'm thinking of, and of course this is a much older show,

Laura:

but like I Claudias, I don't know if you've watched much of that.

Laura:

Um,

Xhafer:

not offhand.

Laura:

yeah, it I highly recommend.

Laura:

Very interesting, especially you are a history buff Roman history.

Laura:

Oh, well I don't know if it's streaming anywhere.

Laura:

Actually.

Laura:

I'll have to look that up.

Laura:

It's gotta be right.

Laura:

It was one of those that my dad bought the box set when I was a assert,

Laura:

you know, maybe in my twenties.

Laura:

And we wound up watching it while I was home from college

Laura:

and I was just fascinated.

Laura:

But the old makeup, not very good.

Laura:

Pretty bad actually, cuz there are some characters that age through the.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

have to cake it on.

Laura:

I was really impressed with how well this old makeup made it through that remaster.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

I don't think londo looks terrible.

Laura:

I think it's all very believable.

Laura:

The way we've graded dalen out.

Laura:

Not bad, not bad at all.

Laura:

We didn't put any on Sheridan because this is unstuck in time.

Laura:

Sheridan.

Laura:

. This is not supposed to look like old Sheridan.

Laura:

I thought that was a nice.

Xhafer:

he he does get a little bit older, like they grade up his hair a bunch.

Laura:

yeah, but we didn't cake anything on his face, I don't

Xhafer:

No.

Xhafer:

. Also Lando is much older than either well, at least than Sheridan.

Xhafer:

Uh, The Mbar, it's hard to say.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

But Londo definitely, you know, we've aged him up quite a bit.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Lando is like 80, I think during our current timeline of Babylon

Xhafer:

five, like he's 70 or eighties.

Xhafer:

He's, he's older, so

Laura:

And we've added 17 years onto

Xhafer:

yeah,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

17

Xhafer:

years.

Xhafer:

as emperor for a chunk too.

Xhafer:

And we saw what eight did to Obama.

Xhafer:

So

Laura:

I was about to say the same thing.

Xhafer:

he looked so youthful back then.

. Laura:

Yep.

. Laura:

So I just wanted to give them props.

. Laura:

I think it was very well done.

. Laura:

It held up just fine in the remaster.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

good for them.

Xhafer:

One last prophecy watch here.

Xhafer:

is this Lando embracing his greatest fear, which was his last

Xhafer:

chance to set everything right?

Laura:

Yeah,

Laura:

I I don't know.

Laura:

So she said, what was the exact line

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He would have to face his greatest fear right . Before his death,

Xhafer:

or at the moment of his death.

Xhafer:

You would have to face his greatest fear,

Laura:

mm-hmm.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So what is Land's greatest fear?

Laura:

Is it Kar?

Laura:

Is it

Laura:

facing what he did to the nans?

Laura:

Is it facing What's happened to Sonari Prime?

Xhafer:

all of

Xhafer:

these apply,

. Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

so,

Laura:

could be a lot of

Laura:

things ,because I, I don't know if I, if I had visions of my death,

Laura:

right, and my death was this person who was gonna strangle me, and I

Laura:

met that person, you know, 20 years before they were gonna strangle me.

Laura:

I might be low-key, afraid of them for 20 years

Laura:

Dylan know.

Laura:

You know that Sheridan is going to get pulled back right from his timeline.

Laura:

So one thing that she does before he is pulled away is

Laura:

she begs him not to go to Zaha.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Once again with the, not going to Zaha Doom.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

first.

Laura:

Kosh.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Now Dalen,

Xhafer:

Now the implication here is that he has gone to Saha

Laura:

Uhhuh

Xhafer:

and Kashas pretty clear about what was gonna happen if he goes to Saha dom.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So how is he here?

Laura:

If he's gone?

Laura:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

it's a mystery.

Xhafer:

For another five episodes,

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

look, it's the name of the episode is Za Doom.

Xhafer:

All right, I'm not giving away too much here

Laura:

No, you're really not.

Laura:

Like if you, if you've looked ahead of

Xhafer:

If you accidentally scrolled one bar too far down on the list of episodes,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Zha Doom is gonna come up.

Laura:

We, but we also get veer wandering into the throne room where

Xhafer:

He claims

Xhafer:

the

Laura:

and Lando.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

ceremonial emperor necklace just grabs that shit.

Laura:

Is that how he becomes emperor?

Laura:

I'm not clear on how this entire, I get a new Emperor

Xhafer:

I, I think there's more to it than that, but he definitely

Xhafer:

is just like, oh,

Laura:

Yeah, we're just being reminded of that last prophecy

Laura:

that one of you will become emperor after the other one is dead.

Laura:

Well, he's dead guys.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Marcus and Ivanova unload while Atheros builds the suit from Babylon squared to

Xhafer:

catch Sheridan Drifting through time.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Marcus thinks this is just insane.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And also just reminds us a little bit about Valin.

Xhafer:

They, they're talking a little bit about Valin over here.

Xhafer:

Uh, Marcus and Ivanova just very randomly like, oh, I wonder if we'll get to.

Xhafer:

Vain.

Xhafer:

That'd be fun.

Xhafer:

I'm barring up.

Xhafer:

Or abar, huh?

Xhafer:

This totally isn't relevant to the episode.

Xhafer:

Let's just talk about it very randomly.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

the most out of place thing in this whole three part parter.

Xhafer:

I feel it's absurd to me.

Laura:

At least it's Marcus who's bringing it up, cuz he has

Laura:

like a, the knowledge to do so.

Laura:

But he's literally the old, well, Dalen has the knowledge to do so, but

Laura:

she's got the tact to not bring it up.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Sheridan gets caught in the suit.

Laura:

Hey Z's, mad thing worked.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we see it like electrify and then get inflated.

Xhafer:

I wanted to be there when they did this.

Xhafer:

. This is fun,

Laura:

That is a fun effect.

Laura:

I love practical stuff.

, Xhafer:

after this Sheridan and Sinclair set up the equipment on

, Xhafer:

the main power core to stabilize the station in time to allow it to move

Laura:

We have a little talkie talk first to say what they're gonna do.

Laura:

And Dalen rushes up to Sheridan

Xhafer:

Mm.

Laura:

and he's, he's a little awkward here.

Laura:

Do you, did you catch that?

Laura:

Because he's just been like, Face mauled

Laura:

by future Dylan

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

And uh, they're not there yet in this part of the time

Laura:

Stream It's very fun to watch.

Xhafer:

They go, they set off all the equipment and then Krantz turns

Xhafer:

up the power core thus setting off the equipment prematurely,

Xhafer:

and they end up two years in our characters' past four years

Xhafer:

in bevel and force's future.

Xhafer:

And the events of Babylon squared begin to play out.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Stupid krants.

Laura:

Why did you have to do that?

Laura:

It can never be as easy as you want it to be,

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Well, something had to go wrong for the station to show up ahead of time.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

During this Sheridan gets shocked and the suit malfunctions or something,

Xhafer:

and he's now shifting through time again.

Laura:

Yeah, boo.

Xhafer:

Dalen has one of those little time shifts to the.

Laura:

Ah-huh.

Xhafer:

she's watching Sheridan sleep and then breaks his snow globe

Laura:

huh?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I don't think

Laura:

This is too far in the future.

Xhafer:

it is not too far in the future, and I won't I won't ruin it,

Xhafer:

but people on Usenet recognized this actress's voice and knew what episode

Xhafer:

she was guest starring in, and were like, well, it has to be this person.

Xhafer:

This is the only character.

Xhafer:

It would make sense for that person to.

Laura:

That's funny.

Xhafer:

So this was like totally ruined on the internet.

Xhafer:

The scene was like almost immediately

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

Welcome to the internet

Xhafer:

Uh,

Xhafer:

when Sheridan is notably aged

Laura:

Oh,

Laura:

nope, nope, nope, nope,

Xhafer:

Sinclair is notably aged when he returns.

Xhafer:

I haven't made that mistake since season two.

Laura:

Hey, we did a really great job in the last episode,

Xhafer:

we did.

Xhafer:

He explains the same would've happened to Garabaldi if he had been on board.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's why we can't have garibaldi.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

. And we're full on back to the future too.

Xhafer:

Now with the events of Babylon squared happening in the

Xhafer:

same time as this episode.

Laura:

I love these kind of episodes where we're weaving

Laura:

in stuff from another episode.

Laura:

Uh, Probably the most notable and successfully done is the um, I

Laura:

believe it's trials and tribulations.

Xhafer:

yes.

Laura:

in D.

Laura:

Space nine

Xhafer:

The most famous going back and doing this kind of a thing.

Xhafer:

This is not any of that.

Xhafer:

There's no adding characters to old scenes.

Xhafer:

If it is an old scene, it is an old scene.

Xhafer:

They didn't reshoot anything.

Xhafer:

They didn't have to.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

most of the time was actually spent like color correcting and getting

Xhafer:

the new stuff to look like it fit in.

Laura:

I am a little disappointed, and this is nothing with the episode,

Laura:

just the technology at the time that the season one Babylon squared

Laura:

snippets really don't look as good.

Laura:

At least they didn't on my tv.

Xhafer:

don't, no.

Laura:

Yeah, that that is disappointing and that's one of those things that

Laura:

you, again, kind of really hope that the Babylon five reboot will pull off

Laura:

and then, no, it doesn't have to do this exact episode, but I would love to.

Laura:

Do this kind of thing at some point with the technology that we have today,

Laura:

like weave some of this old stuff into new stuff and it will look much better.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

We'll see how it goes with the, if, when, if we get the reboot at this point.

Xhafer:

I don't know that I want them to redo this.

Laura:

No, I wouldn't want them to redo this No,

Xhafer:

I think this is too perfect.

Xhafer:

I don't think you fuck with this.

Laura:

I think that JMS and a team could write a story that does the same kind of

Laura:

thing that would get our hearts like, oh yes, I remember this sort

Laura:

of storytelling and I loved it, and I, I'm really excited about it.

Laura:

And then they could technically pull it off a little bit better

Laura:

and that would feel so good

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

that I, I believe in that wholeheartedly.

Xhafer:

Uh, Z Atheros gets caught to commercial and we get

Xhafer:

some of these Babylon squared scenes cut in going forward.

Xhafer:

Z Atheros saves the one.

Xhafer:

giving them the fixed anchor

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

we find out that

Xhafer:

Dalen.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Traded spots with Sheridan.

Laura:

She took the suit, she gave him her

Laura:

anchor, so he is good.

Laura:

The suit maybe not as good.

Laura:

We don't quite know.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And we don't really get much of that.

Xhafer:

We don't really see a whole lot with what she's going through besides her one.

Xhafer:

Flash forward,

Laura:

Yeah, very curious.

Laura:

I, I would love to know so the major is talking to pass

Laura:

Sinclair in one of our scenes.

Laura:

Giving him that whole rundown that we saw in Babylon squared.

Laura:

They start their evacuation and as they're evacuating c n c,

Laura:

this is, this is one of the new

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Ivanova slips in to do some of other, some of her work.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

She sit slips in to reconfigure the engines to make the

Xhafer:

time travel go smoother.

Xhafer:

And then uh, we see uh, Riss get left under the pipe

Xhafer:

and then

Xhafer:

yep.

Xhafer:

But this time we see him get saved by.

Laura:

the suit.

Laura:

I can't ever, at this point in my notes, I was writing the suit because it's

Laura:

like we're not supposed to know really

Laura:

who's

Xhafer:

Well she takes the helmet off real quick here.

Xhafer:

I think

Xhafer:

this is when the reveal is.

Xhafer:

But we see her like sneak out of the ship and go up to where Sinclair is.

Xhafer:

So I thought it was pretty well telegraphed.

Laura:

Yeah, yeah.

Xhafer:

In space Sinclair sees himself.

Xhafer:

and he tries to warn Garabaldi real quick.

Laura:

Oh, this is sad, isn't it?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This could really fuck with the timeline.

Xhafer:

This is a bad idea.

Xhafer:

But he knows his best friend is gonna get shot in the back in like three episodes

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's very vague.

Laura:

Like watch your back, but also very specific

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

And so, but the message doesn't get.

Xhafer:

and has he comments on when he gets back on it happens.

Xhafer:

Just how I remembered it.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

he was not able to change the past, the little bit that he wanted to,

Xhafer:

even though he knows he's not supposed to.

Laura:

I mean, it feels good to try, but you're really not supposed to do that.

Laura:

My dude.

Laura:

We meet all, we, we, all of our characters meet up.

Laura:

Marcus is our cookie

Laura:

and is puzzled out.

Laura:

that somebody's gotta go back with this thing.

Laura:

It's not automated.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This

Xhafer:

is a one way trip.

Laura:

yeah, he tries to.

Xhafer:

Very noble.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

He's always the one to volunteer for the noble sacrifice, but

Xhafer:

Sinclair reveals that he's the one who sent the letters from 900 years ago.

Xhafer:

It will be him.

Xhafer:

It was always him.

Xhafer:

It has to be him.

Laura:

And he would also die if he tried to go back to regular time

Laura:

because of the unstuck and the not having an anchor the first time he came

Laura:

through and.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So he says, I've gotta do this.

Laura:

I would die.

Laura:

You will not die.

Laura:

You will be fine.

Laura:

Uh, and it was always me,

Xhafer:

Atheros reveals the one is actually the three.

Xhafer:

The one who was the one who is, and the one who will be.

Xhafer:

this twist when I was like, 14.

Xhafer:

Blew my mind.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This was the dopest shit.

Xhafer:

But I, I still, I love it a lot as an adult, but it does

Xhafer:

feel a little like, Hmm,

Laura:

It feels a little like college philosophy 1 0 1, where

Laura:

you're like, whoa, and everything is so deep in philosophy 1 0 1

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

And then uh, you start moving on

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

. Yeah.

Laura:

I did have a moment.

Laura:

I made my husband pause the show and I pointed at him and I said, you are

Laura:

the one who was, and I pointed at our.

Laura:

And I said, you are the one who is.

Laura:

And I pointed at my stomach and the baby and I said, you are the one

Laura:

who will be And I made myself laugh.

Laura:

I don't think anybody else laughed, but I laughed.

Laura:

So the one who was, is Sinclair,

Xhafer:

Yes,

Laura:

the one who is, is Dylan and the one who will be, is she.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

And we can, do you wanna break this down a bit

Laura:

Yeah, sure.

Xhafer:

so we know very shortly the biggest twist of

Xhafer:

the series, Sinclair's Valin.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We'll talk about that a bunch in a minute, but that very

Xhafer:

obviously places him as the one who was

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

That was in the past

Laura:

firmly.

Xhafer:

I think this is about the Earthman Barr War and the Gray Council and stuff.

Laura:

okay.

Xhafer:

because you'd think Sheridan is the one who is, because he's

Xhafer:

our main character, but his story.

Xhafer:

Not really even starting until this war is moving.

Xhafer:

You know, he will be the one who is soon, his time is coming.

Xhafer:

So that, that's how I read it at least, is it's not necessarily this exact moment,

Xhafer:

but Dalen is definitely in the terms of like galactic importance has a much more.

Xhafer:

uh, Storied history than Sheridan at this point?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And the menari in general, were kind of, I don't wanna say top dogs, it's

Xhafer:

Oh, no, they're top.

Xhafer:

I mean, outside of like the Volans and the, the other old ones.

Xhafer:

Yeah, for sure.

Laura:

Yeah, like the, the most historied, the most technologically advanced really.

Laura:

Maybe things are stagnant there or moving slow, and then

Laura:

the humans are kind of coming

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

fast,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

might be a little derailed by this.

Laura:

Shadow thing,

Xhafer:

I think it derailed a couple of times, but that's,

Xhafer:

that's, that's all for the future.

Xhafer:

For now.

Laura:

that's, that's human nature.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Laura:

That's how we be.

Xhafer:

So Dylan and Sheridan.

Xhafer:

leave Sinclair and Zs on the station.

Xhafer:

Len has a look here that's just like, okay, well I know you're going back.

Xhafer:

I know who this letter is from, right?

Xhafer:

She doesn't say it, but like the full weight of like the realization

Xhafer:

hits her before anyone else and when she explains it to everyone in

Xhafer:

a couple of scenes, but just like imagine if the Pope found out that.

Xhafer:

Their best friend of their thirties was Jesus

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

That's a good uh, good metaphor.

Xhafer:

Like I'm, I mean, she's one of the, the highest religious leaders.

Xhafer:

So it's, I think it's pretty, and he's, you know, they're basically

Xhafer:

their myth figure in a lot of ways.

Xhafer:

So it's just, it's just like the mind blowing of just

Xhafer:

like, whoa, . It's so good.

Xhafer:

The white star makes it out of the temporal rift, and Dalen lifts

Xhafer:

the veil for the rest of us and the crew as Sinclair uses the

Xhafer:

device to transform into a imbar.

Laura:

Yeah, so the, about the device, did she give him the device?

Laura:

Did he leave the device for himself

Xhafer:

the

Xhafer:

device came with Atheros and it's from Epsilon.

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

and then Dalen gets it a thousand years later.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So that's, that's where the cocoon stuff comes

Laura:

from.

Xhafer:

so this device is made sometime after the old shadow war, before

Xhafer:

it bef we don't know how it gets.

Xhafer:

To, like, Zs gets it right.

Xhafer:

So Zs is the holder of it for who knows how long.

Xhafer:

He brings it to Sheridan.

Xhafer:

No, he brings it to Sinclair.

Xhafer:

Sinclair uses it a thousand years ago.

Xhafer:

Gives it to the Gray Council.

Xhafer:

The Gray Council has it for a thousand years and then Dalen

Xhafer:

gets it.

Laura:

God.

Laura:

Time is hard.

Laura:

time.

Laura:

Travel episodes be hard.

Laura:

She also gives us the score that, you know, it seems like sending Sinclair

Laura:

back in time caused the soul's problem.

Laura:

You remember the soul's problem that menari souls being born in humans.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This is the moment that joins their species.

Xhafer:

Destiny.

Laura:

yeah, we get some soul hunter flashbacks here, which

Laura:

did not see that one coming.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The soul hunter told uh, Sinclair that the Imbar were using

Xhafer:

him to get their great leader

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

that episode.

Xhafer:

They doesn't out, they don't show that clip, but that's

Xhafer:

the line from that episode.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

. No.

Laura:

I think they show that clip.

Laura:

They're using you.

Xhafer:

They, yeah, we get the They're using you but not the,

Xhafer:

what they're using him for.

Xhafer:

Uh, We get naroon telling him, he look, talks like a imbar.

Laura:

Yeah, we got some good season one, not just Babylon squared, but we got

Laura:

another couple of episodes from season

Laura:

one.

Laura:

Really giving Michael O'Hare a good sendoff.

Laura:

I think, you know, it's, it's trying to call back to how much we loved

Laura:

him as a captain or commander.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

. Yep.

Xhafer:

Some Mbar come on board Babylon, four a thousand years ago, and

Xhafer:

he's all like, sup, I'm Valin.

Xhafer:

Here are two VLANs out of their suits.

Xhafer:

Just to further just make you shit yourself,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

to further validate me as an important person.

Laura:

a couple of angels.

Laura:

I think that's uh, a valid tradition from our own human history.

Xhafer:

Yeah, It's so good.

Xhafer:

And like we mentioned before one of these two volans is the guy we see on Mbar at

Xhafer:

the start of this, the closed circle.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This is the best twist in the history of sci-fi tv.

Xhafer:

Fight me.

Xhafer:

I'm not gonna wait for you to ask me.

Xhafer:

I'm gonna shout it Babble on five out of five.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

These two episodes, I just love it.

Laura:

It's some of the best writing in general.

Laura:

We gushed on it last time, but let's gush on it

Xhafer:

It's so good.

Xhafer:

It's so well done.

Xhafer:

It's fucking perfect.

Xhafer:

These episodes are great.

Xhafer:

I fucking love it.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

honestly, listener, if you have something negative to say about this

Xhafer:

episode, I, I really want to hear it because I, maybe it's just nostalgia

Xhafer:

glasses that I got on right now.

Xhafer:

You know, maybe it's the bourbon, I don't know, but I can't find anything

Xhafer:

wrong with these two episodes.

Xhafer:

They're fucking great.

Xhafer:

And so if there's a legitimate complaint, I want to hear it

Xhafer:

and I wanna talk about it, but I don't have anything against these.

Laura:

I, I will say that when Aaron and I were talking about this episode

Laura:

he did say the first part he wasn't impressed with at first because it didn't.

Laura:

For a first time watcher like himself, he didn't feel like things made

Laura:

sense.

Laura:

You, , you really have to watch part two in order to bring it all home.

Laura:

And it was much more enjoyable once we got to part two.

Laura:

But

Xhafer:

As a first time watcher, how did the Valin thing go over?

Laura:

We didn't get to talk about that part very much.

Laura:

I will have to.

Laura:

ask, like if he saw it coming.

Laura:

I don't think he saw it coming.

Laura:

Like I think he would've said something about that.

Laura:

You know when there's

Laura:

an obvious twist, you tend to say, well, that was dumb.

Laura:

That was obvious.

Xhafer:

can't fucking wait for some of our friends in the leagues, league of nine

Xhafer:

aligned podcasts to get to these episodes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I want to hear Grace 17 freak out about this twist.

Xhafer:

I want to hear Babylon five for the first time, freak out about this twist.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I'm really looking forward to those episodes, but they are.

Xhafer:

years off for them because they're release schedule and where

Xhafer:

they're at in the show right now.

Xhafer:

So we've got a while to wait for those, but I'm gonna look forward to

Laura:

I feel like our discord because our, some of our Discord listeners are

Laura:

also listening to the non-line podcasts, and I feel like some of them have said

Laura:

that grade 17 has called some interesting

Laura:

twists like that they saw coming.

Laura:

I don't know if this part has been part of it.

Laura:

I'm sure on our discord they will let us know if how that goes Yes.

Laura:

Babylon.

Laura:

Five outta five

Laura:

solid.

Laura:

How do you follow up an episode like this?

Xhafer:

I do not have fond memories of the next episode,

Laura:

Really?

Xhafer:

But it's also been a while, so we'll see.

Xhafer:

We've got season three episode 18, walk about.

Xhafer:

Sheridan uses a powerful new tool against the shadows.

Xhafer:

Franklin undertakes a strange mission.

Laura:

Yeah, I remember the Franklin plot.

Laura:

Obviously I feel like that's the A plot since it's got the name

Laura:

right,

Xhafer:

It's listed like a b plot, but I do believe it is the A plot.

Laura:

Correct.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So I'm interested to see how we feel about that after going through this journey.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I, I haven't watched ahead yet.

Xhafer:

So we'll see how I feel about it.

Xhafer:

But just thinking about it, I don't remember this episode fondly, so if

Xhafer:

I'm wrong or not, if I change my mind, I've done it a bunch this whole time.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Same.

Xhafer:

we'll see how it goes.

Xhafer:

Just like we'll see how Jeremy Siegel's new January album on

Xhafer:

Spotify goes cuz I haven't had a chance to listen to it because

Xhafer:

we're recording these back to back.

Xhafer:

But you can go ahead and find nuclear Jaguar on Spotify or you

Xhafer:

can find more at Jeremy's music at jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

Xhafer:

Thank you so much for our theme song, we really appreciate it Jeremy.

Laura:

And if you're looking for more interesting artwork, you should

Laura:

check out Angry Duck Time Machine on Instagram Who did our podcast artwork?

Xhafer:

Thank you, Aaron for editing our podcast, ensuring

Xhafer:

that it comes out on time.

Xhafer:

We appreciate all of the work you put in behind the scenes.

Laura:

Definitely.

Laura:

And thank you to you, the listener for being here.

Laura:

And if you have thoughts, we've already put out a call for thoughts, you can send

Laura:

them to who are you, B five gmail.com or you can find us on Facebook or you join

Laura:

our discord and we'll have a thoughtful conversation about your thoughts

Xhafer:

Yeah, we should probably start soliciting for season three feedback soon.

Xhafer:

Uh, Because

Xhafer:

it's, it's that time and we are working very far ahead of ourselves right now.

Xhafer:

We should probably get on socials and start asking for that, cuz

Xhafer:

we're probably gonna record that episode in like three weeks.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, we'll do

Xhafer:

And we're, we're way ahead right now, so.

Xhafer:

All right.

Laura:

Well,

Laura:

we'll see

Laura:

you next time

Laura:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.