Episode 84

full
Published on:

12th Jul 2023

S4E8 - Rube Goldberg Machine of Political Nonsense

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer discuss the D&D alignments of the ambassadorial attachés. Meanwhile, another ISN reporter comes to B5 to give a very fair and balanced look at the station for the population back on Earth in Babylon 5 - Season 4 Episode 8: The Illusion of Truth.

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello and welcome to Who Are You?

Xhafer:

This is the Babylon five watch cast hosted by two former strangers.

Xhafer:

Now, friends who've gotten to know each other while re-watching a favorite

Xhafer:

show from their childhood, Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

I'm Jaire

Laura:

And I'm Laura.

Xhafer:

and we're gonna talk about some alignments today.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So we've done alignments before.

Xhafer:

We did some of the ambassadors.

Xhafer:

We've done some of the command staff.

Xhafer:

Today we're gonna talk about the assistance, the attachees.

Laura:

Yeah, that's a nice word.

Laura:

I forgot the word attache.

Laura:

I like it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I know it because in other news, my box of Shattered Dreams, Babylon,

Xhafer:

five trading cards got here today.

Laura:

Mine arrived yesterday.

Xhafer:

Nice.

Xhafer:

And as I always do, when I get a fresh box of cards, I crack a

Laura:

opened some.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I just crack a couple packs like.

Xhafer:

I uh, I put them all back in and then I mix them into the box and I

Xhafer:

don't know when I'll get them in when we do our game, you know, but it's

Xhafer:

just like I have to indulge myself.

Xhafer:

It's like it's pure nostalgia in childhood to open up a pack

Xhafer:

of cards and I got a attache

Laura:

Ooh,

Xhafer:

to a card for one, so,

Laura:

for one of these that we're gonna talk about today, or just a,

Xhafer:

well, actually no.

Laura:

interesting.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

Because we already talked about Ivana when we did the command staff,

Xhafer:

but she is technically the assistant ambassador for Humanity and the attache.

Xhafer:

She does fill in for Sheridan and Sinclair occasionally.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, you're right.

Xhafer:

so in her role in the game, she has a card where that's

Xhafer:

the thing that she's doing.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Neat.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So shout out Ivanova, we covered her back in our episode season or

Xhafer:

season three, episode 16 when we did this segment the first time.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

But she, she is technically belongs on this list.

Xhafer:

But uh, why don't we start with probably the easiest one out

Xhafer:

of all of the characters we're going to talk about altogether

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

linear.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Linear is lawful good, right?

Xhafer:

there anyone more lawful good than linear?

Laura:

Yeah, I mean, he's minbar.

Laura:

I think pretty much all of the minbar, at least religious cast.

Laura:

Right?

Laura:

Is lawful good?

Xhafer:

He's, he's a monk Mumbai, like he is the most lawful good of lawful good.

Xhafer:

That's how he lives his life.

Xhafer:

If he were a character in a d and d party, he would be a cleric and other players

Xhafer:

would think he was lawful annoying.

Laura:

I like that.

Laura:

Yeah, definitely.

Xhafer:

Then let's go to one of the hardest picks for

Xhafer:

me, straight off that veer.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I struggled with this.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Tell me your thought process.

Laura:

Um,

Xhafer:

I ended up settling on neutral.

Xhafer:

Good.

Xhafer:

He's definitely not chaotic.

Xhafer:

He's bumbling, but he isn't chaotic.

Xhafer:

By nature, he's chaotic by accident,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

are not.

Xhafer:

If you trip, fall and set off a Rube Goldberg machine of political

Xhafer:

nonsense as veers want to do multiple times, this was not machination.

Xhafer:

This was pure happenstance, and that I think does not make for a chaotic person,

Xhafer:

even though chaos follows him around.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I almost leaned a little more chaotic with fear.

Laura:

And here's my thought, because the whole Abraham Lanni thing

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

that was deliberately defying what the Centara wanted, right?

Laura:

What the Sinta Society was doing.

Laura:

Which by their standards would be a little bit chaotic.

Xhafer:

I would agree.

Xhafer:

But I also think the way that he was going about it was within their law structure.

Xhafer:

And so that's why I kind of lean towards neutral with, with Veer,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Because he's not, he's not afraid to break the law, but

Xhafer:

he also isn't like completely.

Xhafer:

disregarding them.

Laura:

Yeah, he's not just like taking over a pirate ship and freeing nas.

Laura:

He's going within the societal structure and smuggling them out.

Xhafer:

having them be slaves to this person who doesn't exist

Xhafer:

so that they get transferred off world and then they can be free.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I agree that I love the idea of him being an agent of chaos

Laura:

in the bumbling sort of sense.

Laura:

Totally accidentally.

Laura:

That is a hundred percent veer.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I struggled with good for him as well.

Xhafer:

Just because, I mean, he obviously, he tries very hard to be good.

Xhafer:

He

Laura:

He has a very good heart.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

Yes.

Xhafer:

But he is still like, Not entirely guilt free when it comes

Xhafer:

to the genocide of narn, you know?

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So there's uh, where, how guilty he is and how guilty he feels about

Xhafer:

it, I guess is more important there.

Xhafer:

And he does do everything he can to make it right, and so that's why I

Xhafer:

will give him the benefit of good,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I, I've can't, I can't argue neutral or evil for veer for me.

Laura:

Like he's, he's good.

Laura:

He's a good, good boy.

Xhafer:

his crimes, so.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

No, I, I, I see the struggle with ve for you.

Laura:

I think the one that was hardest for me to think about was Lita,

Laura:

and that's just because we haven't seen that much of her yet to me.

Xhafer:

I wrote neutral.

Xhafer:

Good question Mark.

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

She doesn't seem to be particularly lawful

Xhafer:

or chaotic at this point.

Xhafer:

I, I, I think that changes in season five.

Laura:

And I haven't seen enough of season five to really have a grasp on that, so,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I think our leader right now is very, go with the flow.

Xhafer:

People need me, I'm doing the thing, and I haven't had time to think

Xhafer:

about why I am doing the thing.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

And also just like how much she was changed and

Xhafer:

manipulated by the Vora lines.

Xhafer:

I don't think she's kind of figured out who she is as a person yet.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

After all of that, and all of all, after all of that has changed her.

Xhafer:

So it's hard to definitively say an alignment for her because I don't

Xhafer:

really think she has one at this point.

Xhafer:

I think she's still figuring out who she is.

Xhafer:

But she wants to be good.

Xhafer:

She doesn't want to be a good person.

Xhafer:

She does care about that.

Xhafer:

She just care about helping people

Laura:

Yeah, I, I would say that I'd have to go with either neutral

Laura:

good or true neutral on her, just because A, I haven't seen that much.

Laura:

You're right.

Laura:

She does want to be good.

Laura:

Like we saw that that part, at least in the shadow war and here that we saw,

Laura:

you know especially when she wanted to get rid of the VLAN ambassador.

Laura:

Who she works for.

Laura:

And obviously she has very sympathetic feelings to the VLANs because she came

Laura:

back there at, with like that whole religious experience feeling when she

Laura:

came back to Babylon five, you know but she could see that what was happening was

Laura:

wrong and she wanted to do the good thing.

Laura:

So I, I don't know that she just seems definitely in the neutral territory to

Laura:

me because she can flex away from the rules, and she clearly wants to be good,

Laura:

but we don't know enough about it yet.

Laura:

We don't know enough about her and her whole deal.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Xhafer:

And then our final assistant slash attache we have to talk about is Naau,

Xhafer:

who did not get a ton of screen time.

Xhafer:

Uh, But I will firmly place as true neutral.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

I think she cares about helping Jaar.

Xhafer:

She cares about freeing darn,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

and, and she doesn't really give a shit about how she does those things.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I'm, I'm with you on that.

Laura:

Especially that, you know, she respects the rules of Babylon five,

Laura:

but then, you know, when we see that the episode where someone comes

Laura:

on board that she has that life, I don't wanna say life debt, but like,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

know what I mean?

Xhafer:

Yeah, the, the, the blood oath, I

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Bullet

Xhafer:

I think life debt is wookies.

Laura:

That's right.

Laura:

That's why I didn't wanna say it.

Laura:

She has that like blood oath to like avenge her father or something.

Laura:

And the, the rules of Babylon five go out the window for her.

Laura:

Like she's gotta take care of this other thing.

Laura:

Um, Yeah, that's very

Xhafer:

of convenience within those rules for sure.

Laura:

Yeah, so I would agree with you on that.

Laura:

Although Justice for Naau, I wish that we had more time with her too, because

Laura:

when you only have that handful of episodes where she's even there and

Laura:

then what one where she's central to the plot or important to the plot,

Laura:

like that's really hard to judge.

Xhafer:

well, she's like kars, like fourth attache too.

Xhafer:

He runs through a handful in the first couple episodes, so that doesn't help

Xhafer:

her chances of being on screen at all.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well, that's our uh, trip through the alignments of

Xhafer:

the assistance and attachees.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

We've got season four, episode eight, the Illusion of Truth.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Fuck this episode.

Laura:

So if uh, and now for a word was kind of like, I.

Laura:

A nice little spoof on the date lines and the 2020s and the front lines of the

Laura:

nineties, whatever, you know, I'm just 60 minutes, whatever from those news shows.

Laura:

This one is the Fox News, right?

Xhafer:

A hundred percent.

Xhafer:

Actually in my notes, significantly later.

Xhafer:

I remark how astounding it is that our uh, narrator Dan something with an r

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

Dan Randall.

Xhafer:

Dan Randall, how much he has the same cadence as Tucker Carlson.

Laura:

I was gonna say, we should just call him Tucker for this episode.

Xhafer:

I do a handful of times in my notes, but we have to get there because

Xhafer:

this episode doesn't start like that.

Xhafer:

This episode very much is not meant to feel like this is what's

Xhafer:

going to happen until it happens.

Xhafer:

It's, it's

Laura:

Yeah, it's a normal episode.

Xhafer:

It's a normal episode for 20 minutes, and then the back 20

Xhafer:

minutes is just, this is n special.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

And it's really meant to lull you in to a false sense of security.

Xhafer:

So we open on an empty war room as Vava and Sheridan talk.

Xhafer:

Sheridan is worried the war room might still be needed as unrest and earth, but

Xhafer:

he says it in the weirdest fucking way.

Xhafer:

But it's the line uh, there might be life in the old girl, yet

Xhafer:

you're talking about war Sheridan.

Xhafer:

Come on,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It might be

Laura:

it's, I guess it's,

Xhafer:

girl yet talking about the war room.

Laura:

yeah,

Xhafer:

That's so fucking weird.

Laura:

I guess it's that sort of sailors referring to their

Laura:

ships as women or whatever, but.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

It's fucked.

Laura:

it is weird.

Xhafer:

is so fucked.

Xhafer:

It's such a weird way to be like, oh, well maybe we'll end

Xhafer:

up in another war really soon.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Ugh.

Laura:

He's also worrying about his dad a little bit in

Xhafer:

he is concerned about his parents.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

After which Ivanovo remarks that Zach is running a pretty tight ship because

Xhafer:

it's been a whole week since they've had an incident it, it must be a Wednesday,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

although I actually, I checked on Lurkers guide and it had the date on this

Xhafer:

one airing on a Monday, but everywhere else said Wednesday, so I don't know.

Laura:

Well, we can see in this next scene that Zach definitely

Laura:

learned well from Garibaldi.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's like handling an incident at Space Customs where they were

Xhafer:

refusing to let him check the grates.

Xhafer:

. Zach forces the issue and finds recording equipment.

Xhafer:

Surprise, you are on the evening news and we get Zach doing what I can only describe

Xhafer:

as his best Homer Simpson to theme.

Laura:

It's too bad that that GIF is a silent gif, right?

Laura:

Can't really drop it, I don't think.

Xhafer:

Um,

Laura:

just gonna have to trust that everybody knows that one.

Xhafer:

I'm just gonna go ahead and say definitively if Garibaldi is Daffy Duck.

Xhafer:

Zach Allen is Homer Simpson and I will not be taking notes.

Laura:

Yeah, I, I enjoy that.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

Yeah, Zach clearly learned well from Aldi's antagonistic uh, school of Security

Laura:

because he really pushes this guy and not even thinking about how it might affect

Laura:

him if This was an important person.

Xhafer:

Or a bomb in there.

Xhafer:

He shoots the, he shoots the crate.

Laura:

that is an excellent point.

Xhafer:

They even bring up, it might be explosives.

Xhafer:

It's like said in the scene.

Laura:

And what if it's like that stuff, you know, there's supposed

Laura:

to be some, some material that like, Is resistant to the PPG blast.

Laura:

And what if it's like

Xhafer:

It

Laura:

around the room?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Oh boy.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

That everyone is happy with Zach's performance except us, I think.

Xhafer:

yeah,

Xhafer:

we're back from Theme and Franklin and Sheridan do a little west

Xhafer:

winging about the Telepaths in Cairo.

Xhafer:

Uh, Did you see who uh, who directed this episode?

Laura:

I did.

Laura:

I was so excited.

Laura:

This is Steven first.

Xhafer:

And it's his first,

Laura:

Is it Okay?

Xhafer:

This is his television directorial debut view.

Xhafer:

And also his first like, Directors, whatever, I think, I don't know if

Xhafer:

they're guild's DAG or or whatever, whatever their, their DGA or something,

Xhafer:

whatever their union is, it's his first opportunity for that kind of credit.

Xhafer:

everything before this that he had directed was like student film

Xhafer:

stuff or private stuff that was not a real production as it were.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I, when I saw that directorial credit at the bottom, I was like, I hope

Laura:

I haven't missed one before this.

Laura:

You know?

Xhafer:

Nope.

Xhafer:

He does two this season and one in season five.

Laura:

Well,

Xhafer:

And then after Babylon five opened a production studio

Xhafer:

and made a ton of B movies.

Xhafer:

So,

Laura:

Yeah, I nice to see them going with that grand, you know,

Laura:

star Trek tradition of letting.

Laura:

The actors come in and do a little bit of directing.

Laura:

That's nice.

Xhafer:

Sheridan meets with our reporter and jokes, that reporters are worse than

Xhafer:

genocide, planet mass murderers as he goes on to meet Dan Randall from I s N News.

Xhafer:

I had always thought the N in i s N was news.

Laura:

Oh yeah.

Laura:

No, I thought it was network.

Xhafer:

It is network and it's reaffirmed a bunch of times this

Xhafer:

episode and it probably was reaffirmed a bunch of times earlier too.

Xhafer:

It probably was reaffirmed in uh, and now for a word, and I just

Xhafer:

either forgot that and noticed it again, and it's a cruel trick.

Xhafer:

My brain is playing on me.

Xhafer:

Or I just never noticed or cared.

Laura:

I couldn't tell you what actual news networks initials

Laura:

stand for, but I remembered I s N.

Xhafer:

Most of them have news.

Xhafer:

I feel like CNN is Cable News Network.

Laura:

Yeah, that seems right.

Laura:

I don't know.

Xhafer:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

Anyways uh, do you think that.

Xhafer:

Dan Randall's name was specifically picked to invoke Dan Rather,

Laura:

Oh, now that you say it, maybe,

Xhafer:

like this is well before CBS pushed him in front

Xhafer:

of the bus for that thing.

Xhafer:

On, that was on when George Bush was president in like 2005 or six.

Xhafer:

I'd have to Google it.

Laura:

Yeah, this was still like the height of

Xhafer:

yeah.

Laura:

that popularity.

Xhafer:

was still the dude who was the face of the news for many, many people.

Laura:

Surely there's, yeah.

Xhafer:

it's too close to be a coincidence, and I think that's supposed

Xhafer:

to, that plus his speech here about, you know, sticking around to get a nugget

Xhafer:

of the truth through to the people.

Xhafer:

I mean, we've seen this show so we know how this episode goes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I remembered very vividly how this episode goes before when I started it up.

Xhafer:

But I think it's part of the trap for the first time viewer

Xhafer:

if you're in that 1996 mindset.

Laura:

Yeah, we trust this guy cuz he sounds kind of like our guy.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

one of those little minor implicit bias things.

Xhafer:

To lull you into a false sense of security that might be lost on an international

Xhafer:

audience who don't know who Dan Rather is, or for anyone who is younger than us,

Xhafer:

real really, I'd say any younger than us,

Xhafer:

probably might not.

Xhafer:

I wouldn't expect to have casual experience with Dan, rather because

Xhafer:

he was taken off the main news broadcast in the early two thousands,

Xhafer:

you know, almost 20 years ago.

Xhafer:

And so, Unless you very specifically remember his reporting from nine 11, that

Xhafer:

might be the only memory you have of him

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

if you're any younger than we are, so, yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

He's working for the propaganda machine, but he, he claims that he

Laura:

is trying to reveal some truth and he, he stayed on after the takeover

Laura:

to try and make things better.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He does give a little bit of sass about, you know, having to search

Xhafer:

his stuff, and I'm just like, there are multiple embassies and

Xhafer:

ambassadors on this space station.

Xhafer:

Why is this even a question for you,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, I mean, there's customs for a reason, right?

Laura:

Everybody goes through customs.

Laura:

I don't know.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Dan Randall turns on that Randall Flagg charm.

Xhafer:

No such thing as a objective journalist.

Xhafer:

There are, there are griffins and honest politicians too.

Xhafer:

He tells him he fought for this assignment to be able to tell a little bit of

Xhafer:

truth behind the propaganda machine's.

Xhafer:

Notice.

Xhafer:

Yeah, just, I, I don't know.

Xhafer:

I don't know if I don't trust this guy because he's a, a smug asshole.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

If my Paladin detect evil is going off, and I just don't trust

Xhafer:

this guy because of that or if I

Laura:

He has a very punchable face.

Xhafer:

he has an incredibly punchable face, has a pacifist.

Xhafer:

He has an incredibly punchable face.

Xhafer:

After this Garibaldi meets with someone looking for a statue,

Xhafer:

and he's like, fuck you, dude.

Xhafer:

Don't lie to me.

Xhafer:

You want this for some shady shit.

Xhafer:

I want 20%.

Laura:

Yeah, I thought it was very funny that now apparently

Laura:

Garibaldi is culturally sensitive to the religions of other races.

Laura:

I.

Xhafer:

Yeah, yeah.

Xhafer:

For a dude who made some comments that he made back in season one.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura:

Suddenly it's convenient for his character to know these things.

Xhafer:

When it makes him a buck, he can understand.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

When near pops his head around and sits down with Alfredo.

Xhafer:

He doesn't understand Gar Aldi's res resignation like on a very cultural level.

Xhafer:

He just doesn't get it.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, this is very honest.

Laura:

This, you know, it feels a little more honest than some of the command

Laura:

staff being confused by it, you know?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's just like, there's no limit on serving the greater good.

Xhafer:

Garibaldi drops a speak of the devil as Sheridan walks in and

Xhafer:

ask Lenier to give Dan the tour.

Xhafer:

Since Mumbai can't lie, tense looks between Sheridan Garibaldi with no words

Laura:

Yeah, this is a stupid move, right?

Laura:

To have Lanier this to her.

Laura:

Like we already know that this propaganda machine is turning

Laura:

out anti alien sentiment, is.

Laura:

Giving the tour to a member of a race that we were not that long ago at war with.

Laura:

Is this a good idea?

Laura:

It's not a good idea, right?

Xhafer:

No, you might say it's a bonehead idea.

Xhafer:

we hit the propaganda broadcast part of this episode, and I stop having jokes

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

and I just start getting angry.

Xhafer:

So I'm just getting 'em all in this first half, half uh, in an elevator linear.

Xhafer:

Notes.

Xhafer:

The ships repairing outside.

Xhafer:

Were outside of the station.

Xhafer:

Were damaged in the shadow war as a camera keeps hitting him in the head.

Laura:

The, there's a guy in the back of this elevator that has a thing

Laura:

that has a little antenna on it.

Xhafer:

He is controlling those things.

Xhafer:

They are not autonomous.

Xhafer:

That is in JM S'S notes

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I was like, that guy's doing that on purpose.

Laura:

He's doing it on purpose.

Laura:

That's horrible.

Laura:

Pause for a question.

Xhafer:

All right.

Laura:

How much do we think Earth actually knows about the shadow war?

Xhafer:

Well, we know that there were shadow advisors to Clark and

Xhafer:

that they had been manipulating him and that they've pieced

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

But I, I'm saying like the earth population, like not

Laura:

earth government.

Xhafer:

oh, the earth population, nothing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So those ships could be anything to everyone else.

Xhafer:

how they're displayed too.

Xhafer:

They don't talk about, you know, they talk about their recent military actions

Xhafer:

in the propaganda broadcast and stuff.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

They don't talk about, you know, they don't call them

Xhafer:

the army of light or anything,

Laura:

It's

Xhafer:

although that's probably pretty damning in the broadcast too.

Xhafer:

If you were to the army of lights coming to get you guys.

Xhafer:

Uh, So they get off the elevator and Lanier headbutts the camera.

Xhafer:

And if you look in the background, you can actually see the camera

Xhafer:

gets left behind in the elevator.

Xhafer:

The door shuts on it before it can get out

Laura:

Yeah, what do you do now, Mr.

Laura:

RC Guy?

Laura:

How are you gonna get that back?

Xhafer:

He's got to.

Laura:

Yeah, that's true.

Xhafer:

They run into Franklin and the camera catches him

Xhafer:

talking about the, the cryo units.

Xhafer:

Uh, the camera then catches Lando and Sheridan in a playful argument,

Xhafer:

and then we're over to Sheridan and Delen getting interviewed.

Xhafer:

This

Laura:

This is bad.

Laura:

This is bad, right?

Xhafer:

is so Sheridan confirms a desire to return to earth.

Xhafer:

They just need to bring back democracy and get rid of their dictator.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

digs into the relationship and uh, he's all like, so this whole, uh,

Xhafer:

enemy to lovers trope and delen is just like the heart wants what the heart wants,

Xhafer:

and then they go on to say some shit that surely won't be taken outta context.

Laura:

Right?

Xhafer:

Why?

Xhafer:

It's just, even if you trust this dude, why would you say those things?

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Ugh.

Laura:

Just from the second the scene opens up and you see the

Laura:

two of them with the reporter, it's like, no, don't do that.

Laura:

Just like you shouldn't have given the tour to the Menari.

Laura:

You should not have done this interview together.

Xhafer:

for sure.

Laura:

There's no world, even, even if things were not as, You know, aggressive

Laura:

with Earth as they are starting to become.

Laura:

You shouldn't do this together

Xhafer:

I can't help but wonder if this visit is why Garibaldi was activated.

Laura:

because we know this visit is coming.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Like

Laura:

uh, Like Ster had a heads up on it

Xhafer:

Yeah, like, I mean obviously there's the other stuff that's happened

Xhafer:

that would make sense for Garibaldi to be activated to kind of get him outta

Xhafer:

the picture when ster comes on board.

Xhafer:

And that is convenient.

Xhafer:

But like does this happen if Garibaldi is chief of security, like does Garibaldi

Xhafer:

let these guys pass the airlock?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I think he just pushes them back on his ship.

Xhafer:

Turn

Laura:

If, if Sheridan is sitting there like, okay, we're gonna meet at with

Laura:

him at this time, and it's gonna be me and Delen, Garibaldis going, no, no, no.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Good questions.

Xhafer:

Anyways uh, Dan sits down with Garibaldi, who gets a

Xhafer:

chance to talk about whatever.

Xhafer:

We'll see that at the end of the episode

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

and the end of Ava and Sheridan sit down.

Xhafer:

As Delan walks in, they're like, we tried really hard so that we

Xhafer:

couldn't be taken outta context.

Xhafer:

I laughed out loud.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That is such bullshit,

Xhafer:

such incredible incredible bullshit,

Laura:

they don't live in the YouTube age where anybody and everybody can

Laura:

just slice and dice whatever they want and to say whatever they want.

Xhafer:

right?

Xhafer:

There's

Laura:

Let alone deep fakes.

Xhafer:

There's a musical artist that I listen to on YouTube that does mashups

Xhafer:

and one of like, his very incredible things that he's been doing for well

Xhafer:

before Deep Fake could help him do this.

Xhafer:

And I'm sure he uses it now cuz it's way easier.

Xhafer:

But he would like get, like if he's mashing up in Elton John's song with, I

Xhafer:

don't know some ni the B 50 twos, right.

Xhafer:

Whatever he is doing, he will get.

Xhafer:

Elton John, he'll take other Elton John songs, take out the vocals,

Xhafer:

isolate them, change the pitches, and make it so that Elton John is

Xhafer:

singing the words to the B 52 song.

Laura:

Wow.

Xhafer:

Like shit like that.

Xhafer:

That's DJ Cumber Bond, y'all on YouTube.

Xhafer:

And uh, and the TikTok, it's incredibly talented.

Xhafer:

The more like, if you're just a fan of music and you know the two songs,

Xhafer:

you'll listen to it go, oh, that's fun.

Xhafer:

If you understand music production and like how music is made

Xhafer:

and stuff, there are layers.

Xhafer:

Dude is a fucking onion.

Xhafer:

You just keep peeling back layers, finding more shit every time you listen to it.

Xhafer:

Insanely talented.

Laura:

That's fun.

Laura:

I like

Xhafer:

For a dude who uses Mean Gene or Erland and the Macho man,

Xhafer:

Randy Savage, and like every song you're like, oh, what is this?

Xhafer:

It's like, no, trust me.

Xhafer:

This guy's incredibly talented.

Laura:

All right, we'll check it out.

Xhafer:

After this we cut over to our I S N News report.

Laura:

Yeah, so we've really, if you think about it, this episode,

Laura:

our main characters really only had to film half an episode.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

We get half an episode of material and then we get a little bit of newsy

Laura:

stuff and then recycle the same stuff.

Laura:

We just watch the episode again.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

So,

Laura:

I mean, that's a fun storytelling device, but yeah.

Laura:

Do tell us how it goes.

Xhafer:

We start on a report that they've retaken New Vegas on Mars.

Xhafer:

That

Xhafer:

hour is extended, two hours to celebrate.

Xhafer:

You can stay outside till 9:00 PM people,

Laura:

Oh, so generous in Vegas.

Xhafer:

I mean,

Laura:

Can you imagine?

Xhafer:

does have to be excited about St.

Xhafer:

L V.

Xhafer:

Just mentioning Vegas right now, I'm just like, soon we get the Senate Committee on

Xhafer:

unearthed activities showing a clearly.

Xhafer:

Uninfluenced confession.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

all of the names here are references to actual Hollywood

Xhafer:

writers, producers, and actors that were blacklisted by the House on

Xhafer:

American Activities Commission, huac.

Laura:

Oh yeah.

Xhafer:

This is all very much on purpose.

Xhafer:

The framing of this shot matches a confession that was filmed for it and

Xhafer:

everything like this is straight up.

Xhafer:

I hope everyone in America still gets taught this shit in school.

Xhafer:

It seems like the kind of thing that they don't anymore.

Xhafer:

And that's fucking tragic.

Xhafer:

I don't think it was in my school books.

Xhafer:

I think I just had a history teacher who was all like, you need to learn

Xhafer:

this shit and that it's ridiculous that it's not in the history books.

Xhafer:

So we're talking about it.

Laura:

Yeah, I think it was mentioned in, in our history classes.

Laura:

Some certainly we never saw the videos like you discussed.

Laura:

And I will actually wanna say the place that we talked about

Laura:

it most was an English class

Laura:

when we did The Crucible

Xhafer:

Ah,

Laura:

yeah, the unit on The Crucible was.

Laura:

You know, that was written as kind of a reaction to that,

Laura:

talking about the witch hunts.

Laura:

Well, it's,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

it's an allegory for the other witch hunts that were happening.

Laura:

But we certainly never watched confessions.

Xhafer:

if you're unfamiliar with huac, you might also know this under its other

Xhafer:

names as a portion of American history which is McCarthyism or the Red Scare.

Laura:

Right,

Xhafer:

so if this was something that you didn't learn about in school,

Xhafer:

I'm sorry, that public education in this country failed you but you

Laura:

or your private education failed you.

Laura:

I could see some private education not covering it.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Xhafer:

It's definitely worth, at the very least, reading about.

Xhafer:

If nothing else, I'd highly recommend and then all of our

Xhafer:

international listeners as well.

Xhafer:

I don't expect you to get that in your school, but

Laura:

sure.

Xhafer:

you know.

Laura:

But it's, it's important to the plot of this show

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it definitely will frame how a lot of this episode goes.

Xhafer:

The context because I mean, you gotta remember, JMS was

Xhafer:

in Hollywood in the eighties.

Xhafer:

The eldest of his peers had lived through this shit.

Xhafer:

You know, people that he had worked with had gone through these things.

Xhafer:

He had firsthand stories that he was being told about this, about

Xhafer:

this shit happening in Hollywood.

Xhafer:

And so, This is something that was very much impactful for him.

Xhafer:

It's probably in becoming Superman, which I really need to fucking read.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It seems like, you know, we see Harlan Ellison as a consultant a lot.

Laura:

It seems like he might have been old enough to have

Laura:

encountered some of that.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We get some on this day.

Xhafer:

The first one tells us that this is April 12th.

Xhafer:

If you were wondering.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We've already missed the 1999 commission on the future.

Xhafer:

That didn't happen.

Laura:

Oh, damn.

Xhafer:

And then everyone remembers five years ago when we got

Xhafer:

the lunar colony founded, they didn't have to worry about Covid.

Laura:

man, that's, that's always a chuckle.

Xhafer:

Uh So

Laura:

I love the optimism of sci-fi writers thinking that we

Laura:

would be farther than we are now.

Xhafer:

you know.

Xhafer:

It's not their fault for being optimists.

Laura:

No.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

After this, we start the report and it is just the worst view possible.

Xhafer:

All humans are kept in down below unless they serve aliens.

Xhafer:

Sheridan is being bossed around by everyone, anyone who questions this

Xhafer:

is taken away and put in cryo storage.

Xhafer:

They keep going back to interviews with this Harvard professor in psychology.

Xhafer:

Who's

Laura:

another punchable

Xhafer:

yeah, he's just so derivative in such bullshit.

Xhafer:

We get the

Xhafer:

cryo units a bit as we lead out to commercial.

Xhafer:

There were no fake commercials in this one.

Laura:

That's too bad.

Laura:

That would've lightened the tone a little

Laura:

bit

Xhafer:

maybe

Xhafer:

you can't lighten the tone at this point.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I think it's interesting that in down below, you know, this is where

Laura:

all the humans are forced to live and slaves and enslaved on whatever.

Laura:

And if you look at that scene, there's a lot of aliens in there too.

Xhafer:

Yeah, well, it's, it's about being shown one thing and

Xhafer:

told what it means, and you don't question what you're being told.

Xhafer:

That's how this works.

Xhafer:

Uh, we get some conspiracy theory bullshit about the weapons upgrade in season two

Xhafer:

and how their tax dollars are fixing alien warships to come attack them.

Laura:

I was like, what tax dollars are still coming to Babylon five at this

Xhafer:

None for a long

Xhafer:

time.

Xhafer:

I am absolutely convinced this episode is how Tucker Carlson

Xhafer:

has modeled his news broadcast.

Xhafer:

I don't know if you've ever watched his

Laura:

No.

Xhafer:

A

Laura:

If I'm ever in a place where it's on and you know, cuz like you could be

Laura:

at a doctor's office or something and it's just on I am dissociating so hard.

Xhafer:

I have, as I've talked about conservative, very

Xhafer:

conservative family members,

Xhafer:

and so it has been unavoidable for me.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

but I do find it interesting.

Xhafer:

To watch.

Xhafer:

Um, not, not in a, this is the news and I'm learning things kind of way,

Laura:

No.

Laura:

Like a clinically

Xhafer:

yes.

Xhafer:

yes.

Xhafer:

Like as a third party, watching people that I know react to the

Xhafer:

things that are being said on the television, that is interesting to me,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

but not in any good way.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

We cut over to Lenon, Sheridan's butchered interview.

Xhafer:

We've got recuts of their answers.

Xhafer:

We've got an entirely different set of questions being asked.

Xhafer:

Even if you look at Dan, he's like in a different room asking these questions.

Laura:

I noticed that like his, his background is totally wrong.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The lighting's way off.

Xhafer:

He's in a different place.

Xhafer:

There's a wall that doesn't exist and stuff, and

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And then we get Gar Aldi's interview, which I'm sure made

Xhafer:

all of his future employers happy.

Xhafer:

And by that I mean the actor's, future employers and conservative media.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

We then cut over to the cryo units that uh, all have humans.

Xhafer:

Oh no.

Xhafer:

The

Xhafer:

first tube they show us is investor's girlfriend.

Laura:

yeah, I like how we just show their names.

Laura:

Like

Xhafer:

Did you catch the second name on the cryo tube?

Xhafer:

There

Laura:

I, I saw that we could see it, but I didn't catch what it was.

Laura:

I don't

Xhafer:

it is.

Xhafer:

John Flynn, who is regular director and occasional actor on the show.

Laura:

how

Xhafer:

Uh, he's the guy that Lanier faked out at Space TSA that one time?

Laura:

Oh yes, yes, I remember him.

Laura:

What fun.

Xhafer:

Back from commercial again.

Xhafer:

Dr.

Xhafer:

Franklin denies the cryo usage and our psychiatrist at Harvard warns of the most

Xhafer:

dangerous cases of Mumbai War syndrome.

Xhafer:

I don't like to make long distance, distance diagnoses, but here's

Xhafer:

a long distance diagnoses.

Laura:

Yeah, but I'm gonna do that thing.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Sheridan is unstable.

Xhafer:

He has a war fleet, and all of the aliens are gonna gang up on

Xhafer:

us and also turn us all into Mbar.

Xhafer:

And also we killed his parents that he's finding out right now.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And then he says, our job is to report the news, not make it or guide it.

Xhafer:

Fair and balanced.

Xhafer:

The last shot is them just walking away as Sheridan angrily turns off the broadcast.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

We made it.

Laura:

we made it

Xhafer:

we ran through 20 minutes at the end of this episode, but

Laura:

well, to be fair, a lot of it is recycled footage.

Laura:

We just needed to update how it was interpreted.

Laura:

In the show,

Xhafer:

Yeah, very much so.

Xhafer:

All right, Laura, I gotta ask cuz we, cuz we decided we were gonna do this every

Xhafer:

time on a scale of Babylon one to five.

Xhafer:

How do you feel about this episode?

Laura:

I'm trying to remember if I have given out a fuck this episode yet, have I?

Xhafer:

I don't believe so.

Laura:

I, I'm thinking I have it, but I don't know.

Laura:

There, there might be one if I have, there's gotta be just one, right?

Laura:

Maybe somebody will remember, one of the listeners, but I'm

Laura:

definitely,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I.

Laura:

yeah, I'm definitely giving this one The fuck this episode.

Xhafer:

I, I have to give it a five.

Xhafer:

Outta five, but also, fuck this episode.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And I'm giving it the fuck this episode for the same reason.

Laura:

Like it's very effective at what it does.

Laura:

Actually, when I was looking at the title and we were getting ready to

Laura:

watch it, I told Erin, I was like, I'm pretty sure I hate this episode.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Pretty sure I don't like it.

Xhafer:

This episode at least for a while, was used in some film school programs.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Like this episode is a beautiful example of what someone with

Xhafer:

poor intent can do with video

Xhafer:

footage.

Laura:

It's only gotten

Xhafer:

And it's only, and it's only going to get worse as a society, like,

Xhafer:

as deep fake gets stronger and better.

Xhafer:

Um, there's actually was a episode of Orville season three, where that

Xhafer:

was a plot point where, uh, deep fake, in a political campaign is

Xhafer:

just like part of the culture where it's just like you regularly see like

Xhafer:

footage of your presidential candidates like killing babies and stuff.

Xhafer:

That they put out there, like, yeah, just terrible shit.

Xhafer:

Just outright

Laura:

Did you see any deep fakes in this last like election cycle?

Laura:

Did did any come across your

Xhafer:

No,

Laura:

definitely saw at least

Xhafer:

all of that.

Xhafer:

I,

Laura:

Well, you know, I've got my, my, we all have those

Laura:

conservative family members, right?

Laura:

I had some in my social media that I happened to see sharing a deep

Laura:

fake or two, and I was just, My mind was just blown cuz I could

Laura:

still tell, you know, I mean

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

obviously like I'm sitting here going, no, this person did not do that.

Laura:

Like,

Laura:

that would be real news and you know, but you

Xhafer:

You wouldn't find out about it on Facebook?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

yeah, but there's still little tells that there's like

Laura:

something wrong with the video.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

But some people really.

Laura:

Don't see it, or they're willfully blind to it because of how they want to

Xhafer:

Oh yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, I've heard ridiculous fucking news stories that it's just like,

Xhafer:

did you, did you do any research?

Xhafer:

Did you, did you look at anything?

Xhafer:

But after after two years of Trump as president, I severely cut down on all

Xhafer:

of my news sources for my mental health.

Xhafer:

Which is totally coming from a place of privilege for sure.

Xhafer:

The fact that I could afford to do that, it's not like I ignore

Xhafer:

the news or I am apolitical.

Xhafer:

I don't think anyone who's listening to more than one episode

Xhafer:

of this podcast would attempt to describe me as apolitical.

Xhafer:

I am

Xhafer:

incredibly political.

Xhafer:

But I don't do that on Facebook.

Xhafer:

My Facebook is like travel photos and happy birthdays.

Xhafer:

That's what Facebook is to me.

Xhafer:

Outside of a chant client, which is its main function.

Xhafer:

I use Messenger more than anything else.

Xhafer:

But anyone who would be posting things like that, I either don't see it because

Xhafer:

I don't maintain that, those kind of people on my Facebook or there're

Xhafer:

people in my life who don't have Facebook who would be posting that.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So.

Xhafer:

But also just like.

Xhafer:

I have segmented a chunk of my life off from politics for my own personal sanity.

Xhafer:

Uh, because once again, to the surprise of no one who's listening

Xhafer:

to this podcast, I have very strong feelings about a lot of things.

Xhafer:

And if I don't separate that, then I am not a happy person.

Xhafer:

I

Laura:

Yeah, I

Laura:

totally empathize with

Laura:

that.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

No.

Xhafer:

So I didn't see, I don't recall seeing any deep fakes or anything like that.

Xhafer:

I've heard I've, you know, I've been at family dinners and gotten the bullshit

Xhafer:

stories and been all like, oh Pizzagate.

Xhafer:

Okay, well who'd you hear that from?

Xhafer:

And as I've said on this podcast before my dad, despite his uh, fall

Xhafer:

into the conservative news vacuum, uh, Later in life always said one

Xhafer:

thing to me when I was a kid that he never seemed to really hear.

Xhafer:

And that's if one person is telling you that everyone else is lying to you, they

Xhafer:

are the person that is lying to you.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

If, if someone is telling you they are the only source you can trust for

Xhafer:

information, that person is lying to you every single time because the only

Xhafer:

reason anyone would ever say that is to not get you to listen to other things.

Xhafer:

And the only purpose that will ever serve is to control the narrative.

Xhafer:

And that is always the, the channel and domain of lies.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So,

Laura:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

this episode.

Xhafer:

But yeah, it's, it was great.

Laura:

Yeah, it is.

Laura:

It is a really beautiful example and kudos to Steven first for that,

Laura:

for this being his first outing.

Laura:

And I mean, I know that obviously Jay Michaels Treki has like designed

Laura:

the structure and everything.

Xhafer:

Yeah, he's very famously like uncompromising on so much

Xhafer:

of the stuff in his episodes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Putting these pieces together the way that they have been put together.

Laura:

I think that Steven deserves some credit for that.

Laura:

And I think he did, did great.

Laura:

What a fantastic way to like, start out your whole directorial

Laura:

career, as you've mentioned.

Laura:

So good for him.

Laura:

But yes, it, it is beautiful in a very sad sort of way.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

And fuck this episode.

Xhafer:

All right, well, that's

Xhafer:

that.

Xhafer:

We've got season four, episode nine.

Xhafer:

Atonement

Laura:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

Len's Clan has doubts about her taking Sheridan as a mate, so

Xhafer:

she travels to Minbar while defending her love for Sheridan To the Minbar.

Xhafer:

Delen might be forced to expose in astounding secret.

Laura:

Oh no.

Laura:

What more astounding secrets could we have?

Xhafer:

I think we know the astounding secret.

Xhafer:

I, I haven't watched this one in a couple of years, but I believe that

Xhafer:

this was revealed to us long ago.

Xhafer:

I will

Laura:

so this is the one that we already

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We, this is, this is, one about a certain historical figure

Xhafer:

who might not be as historical.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

So we, we know the secret, but maybe the rest

Xhafer:

could be wrong.

Xhafer:

I could be remembering the wrong thing, but I do think that this is where

Xhafer:

that comes back to the Mumbai people,

Laura:

Yeah, and the fact that we're having this episode where she's going

Laura:

to have to justify her relationship to the Minbar people as well.

Laura:

Just like highlights for me how misguided it was to do an

Laura:

interview together for the humans.

Laura:

Like you know that for both of your peoples, this is kind of a, kind of a

Laura:

problem like, Maybe now's not the time to do that interview, but what do we know

Xhafer:

Well, I know that we gotta say thanks to Jeremy Siegel

Laura:

indeed?

Xhafer:

for our lovely theme music.

Xhafer:

Thank you so much.

Xhafer:

My Facebook friend Jeremy Siegel.

Xhafer:

Uh, You can find more Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

Xhafer:

And on all of your favorite streaming music sites as nuclear jaguar.

Xhafer:

Nuclear Jaguar.

Xhafer:

He, he posted a thing the other day about how he chose the name because there's like

Xhafer:

40 different ways you can pronounce it.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

I

Xhafer:

a tour of those

Xhafer:

different names, uh,

Xhafer:

those different pronunciations rather.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And thank you to Angry Duck Time machine on Instagram for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

Thanks Aaron for editing this podcast and making sure that it

Xhafer:

gets released on a regular cadence.

Xhafer:

Without you, we would be floundering in the dark.

Laura:

For sure.

Laura:

And thank you to you, the

Xhafer:

Yeah, thanks.

Laura:

Thanks for being here.

Laura:

If you wanna talk to us other times, you can uh, get on our Discord.

Laura:

Fun place to be there.

Laura:

You can always email us at, who are you?

Laura:

B five gmail.com.

Xhafer:

I'm almost done with tears of the kingdom, so I'll

Xhafer:

have a like presence again soon.

Laura:

Yay.

Xhafer:

It's not my fault, one of the greatest games ever.

Xhafer:

Just got dropped.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

It's fantastic.

Xhafer:

I've put like 90 hours in that bitch.

Xhafer:

I'm still not done.

Laura:

Wow.

Xhafer:

so good.

Xhafer:

It's so good.

Xhafer:

All right, well, we'll see you next week.

Xhafer:

Internet.

Laura:

All right.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.