Episode 88

full
Published on:

9th Aug 2023

Old Man Fights - The Fugitive (Featuring Adam Pranica)

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer take another mid-season movie break with special guest Adam Pranica, co-host of The Greatest Generation and Greatest Trek podcasts! Just in time for the 30th anniversary, Laura, Xhafer and Adam review The Fugitive starring Harrison Ford, Tommy Lee Jones, and Babylon 5's Andreas Katsulas.

You can find more of Adam on your podcatcher of choice and @CutForTime on Twitter (or whatever we're calling it now).

Transcript
Xhafer:

Welcome to Who Are You?

Xhafer:

This is the Babylon five watch cast hosted by two former strangers now,

Xhafer:

friends who have gotten to know each other while re-watching a favorite

Xhafer:

show from their childhood, Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

I'm Jair

Laura:

And I'm Laura.

Xhafer:

and we've got a special guest today.

Xhafer:

Adam.

Adam:

Hey, that's me.

Adam:

I'm Adam, Adam P prca.

Xhafer:

So Adam, as is our tradition on this show, when we have a

Xhafer:

guest, we ask them, who are you?

Adam:

Who am I in terms of uh, how people know me?

Adam:

People know me from my two popular Star Trek podcast, the Greatest

Adam:

Generation and Greatest Trek,

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Adam:

And, you've probably gotten to know me a little better at Star Trek Las Vegas

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Adam:

at this moment in time.

Adam:

Uh, Yeah, I've.

Adam:

I've been around.

Adam:

I've been podcasting a long time.

Adam:

How long have you been podcasting?

Xhafer:

We've been doing this together for year and a half.

Xhafer:

We've worn that.

Xhafer:

We've got 80 something, maybe maybe 90 episodes out for this one.

Adam:

Hey, that's great.

Adam:

So it's sticking,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

I think once you make it past 50 episodes, I think you're here to stay.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

I heard that.

Laura:

It takes a hundred episodes to get good.

Laura:

So we're closing in.

Xhafer:

Getting

Adam:

think we have close to a thousand episodes and I'm

Adam:

still waiting for that moment.

Laura:

Oh.

Xhafer:

You've been there.

Xhafer:

I have a podcast in my past that no longer runs called Draft the Universe.

Xhafer:

And then I have another podcast beside this, which is a little baby podcast.

Xhafer:

It only has 10 episodes uh, called Last Time On which is a review podcast where my

Xhafer:

podcasting partner, Ben and I watch a show that neither of us have ever seen before.

Xhafer:

Watch an episode, roll some dice, skip that many episodes, and then

Xhafer:

try to figure out what the hell happened in between those two.

Adam:

Oh, how about that?

Adam:

You're, you're uh, gamifying the show.

Xhafer:

Yes,

Adam:

That sounds like fun.

Xhafer:

it's a good

Laura:

It's, it's a fun podcast.

Laura:

I'm enjoying it.

Xhafer:

so that's all exciting.

Xhafer:

The Fugitive is what we're watching today, I.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Why did you choose the Fugitive

Xhafer:

So we do mid-season breaks with movies with that, have actors

Xhafer:

from the show, Babylon, five of them.

Xhafer:

And in this case Sykes is played by Andreas Les, who is Jaar in Babylon five,

Xhafer:

which is one of the main ambassadors.

Xhafer:

And he's also Tamma Lock in Star Trek.

Adam:

He

Xhafer:

that's

Adam:

is.

Laura:

Yeah,

Adam:

What a great face.

Adam:

He's got

Xhafer:

right?

Laura:

indeed.

Adam:

one of the great faces in Hollywood.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Adam:

Now on Babylon five, do they cover him with a bunch of loaf or

Adam:

is he he letting that thing dangle?

Laura:

No, they sure cover it.

Adam:

Why would they do that?

Adam:

It's such a great instrument.

Laura:

They even put him in uh red contacts.

Laura:

They gave him an episode where one of his eyes is gone and they give

Laura:

him a prosthetic eye and instead of letting him use his natural

Laura:

eye color, they put him in another

Xhafer:

A third eye color contact.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

recognizable.

Adam:

Maybe that's what they were trying to do.

Adam:

Like he's so distractingly, Andreas Kalis that you wanna cover

Adam:

him with Loaf, make him fit in.

Adam:

I've never seen a minute of Babylon five though, so I might not even recognize him.

Adam:

I

Laura:

Yeah, I'm,

Adam:

look at me on a Babylon five podcast cast.

Laura:

I know.

Xhafer:

so proud.

Laura:

Would you have actually watched an episode of Babylon five?

Adam:

No,

Laura:

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Adam:

Now you, you guys did right.

Adam:

I wanted to see The Fugitive again.

Adam:

It's, it was my first time watching it for many, many years.

Adam:

So it

Laura:

Okay.

Adam:

a great reason to, to reacquaint myself

Laura:

Yeah, this was actually my first time watching it ever

Adam:

ever

Laura:

ever.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Same.

Xhafer:

I just never managed to uh, to sit down with it before.

Adam:

Can I ask you how old you both are?

Adam:

Like for the purposes of like a comparison, because I'm 44, which

Adam:

means I, I'm almost positive I saw this movie in the theater.

Adam:

I was 14.

Laura:

Uh,

Adam:

were you old enough to see this in the theater?

Xhafer:

I was eight when this came out in

Laura:

Yeah, I was seven.

Adam:

So you'd need to have really cool parents for that to have happened,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I have definitely not cool parents, period.

Laura:

So.

Adam:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

I went and saw Batman 89 in theaters.

Xhafer:

That was, that's like one of my very first memories,

Xhafer:

uh, just at all.

Adam:

what a great first memory watching Bruce Wayne's parents die in an alley.

Xhafer:

I remember very little about the movie, but I remember my mom made

Xhafer:

my dad go see it without me because it was rated R but I really it was really

Xhafer:

into Batman and uh, I remember him coming home and saying that it was okay.

Xhafer:

And that is like the fundamental moment of happiness of my youth.

Xhafer:

Like it is the bar.

Adam:

I.

Adam:

I bet McDonald's had a lot to do with that.

Adam:

Do you remember how pervasive the marketing was, especially in

Adam:

fast food for movies like that.

Adam:

And I feel like Batman specifically was like way into McDonald's and

Adam:

if you were a little kid, that was the only place you ever wanted

Adam:

to eat, and you were collecting those, those plastic Batman cups.

Adam:

At least I was like, how could you not get your parents to take you to that?

Xhafer:

exactly.

Xhafer:

No, that's for sure.

Xhafer:

A thing that was, I mean, fast food.

Xhafer:

I had the Disney Cups from Burger King as a kid.

Adam:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

I had some Star Trek ones from, my God, I think it was Search for Spot.

Xhafer:

I don't even think I was born when that movie came out,

Xhafer:

but

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I remember the cups.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Who can forget?

Adam:

Uh, Ben and I, my co-host on Greatest Trick and Greatest Gin, we try to

Adam:

go and get those cups, those fast food cups and take them on tour

Adam:

with us because when we do our live shows, we're, we're doing movies.

Adam:

we tried to bring along the cups were in fast food franchises when

Adam:

those movies were in theaters.

Adam:

And we've done a pretty good job so far in being able to source those.

Xhafer:

Nice.

Xhafer:

You got 'em for uh, final Frontier yet.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Got 'em ready to go.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Getting ready to go on tour here

Adam:

That's right.

Xhafer:

What's that website

Adam:

Greatest gen tour.com is where you can see all the

Adam:

tour dates and get tickets.

Laura:

Fantastic.

Xhafer:

then you've also got a, a merch store for your podcast as well.

Xhafer:

If you wanna go ahead and throw a, a

Adam:

That's right.

Adam:

Pod shop.biz was not taken when we needed a merch store,

Adam:

and so we scooped it up and now it's ours.

Adam:

And now it's where we sell weird joke shirts and logo apparel and glasses

Adam:

and headbands and all the rest.

Adam:

It's, it's amazing.

Adam:

I'm glad we finally have a cool store.

Xhafer:

It is

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

If you need a niche joke shirt,

Laura:

That's the place to be,

Adam:

Hey, William Carlos Williams, pair of swim trunks.

Laura:

right?

Adam:

source.

Xhafer:

So this movie starts off with some real dramatic

Xhafer:

titles for these actors', names.

Xhafer:

I don't remember another movie, doing something like this.

Xhafer:

Two cards for each lead actor

Adam:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

with the full on.

Xhafer:

It's just so dramatic before this movie even begins.

Xhafer:

They're laying it on thick,

Adam:

I mean that's, that's one of the great things about the fugitive,

Adam:

right, is like the pace of it is pretty breakneck for like the first 90 minutes.

Adam:

And then I would argue like by the time we get there, it really runs

Adam:

outta steam about 90 minutes in

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, I, I did a, some cursory research.

Laura:

We don't do a lot of research on our show either.

Laura:

Uh, But I did a little cursory research and found out that this was originally

Laura:

a TV show, and I was like, okay, I see that because there's so much

Laura:

happening and you're you're not clear on like what day it is in this movie.

Laura:

Makes a lot of sense.

Laura:

In a TV show, this would be a lot longer, like lead up.

Adam:

place is far more important than time in this movie for sure.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

They do a really good job of establishing that constantly too.

Xhafer:

Whenever they're at a place, Tommy Lee's barking out the perimeter, how many

Xhafer:

miles the distance traveled and stuff.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

The movie does a really good job of keeping that and then

Xhafer:

being consistent with it too.

Adam:

Right.

Adam:

Do you think we're supposed to like the Tommy Lee Jones character as

Adam:

much as the Harrison Ford character?

Xhafer:

think in

Xhafer:

' Adam: cause I I really got heat

Xhafer:

Like the De Niro versus Pacino ification of the two leads.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it's uh, I think that Tommy Lee's character not caring about justice and

Xhafer:

just caring about being a cop plays a lot better in 1993 than it does in 2023

Adam:

Yeah,

Laura:

for sure.

Laura:

For

Adam:

kind of terrifying in some scenes

Xhafer:

for sure.

Laura:

Did uh, was anybody else surprised that Tommy Lee Jones

Laura:

is younger than Harrison Ford?

Xhafer:

What

Adam:

that is, that's hard to believe.

Laura:

Harrison Ford is 80 years old and Tommy Lee Jones is 76.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

and you're the close.

Adam:

I mean, I would imagine they would've gone to the same

Adam:

high school or whatever, so

Laura:

Yeah, my husband was like, how is he not 90?

Adam:

he's got some real city miles on him for

Laura:

he has, he has a face.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Um, I kind of liked Tommy Lee Jones, though.

Laura:

I know that they're trying to play him as uh, the, the foil, right.

Laura:

But,

Laura:

His folksy demeanor really made me laugh.

Laura:

I enjoyed it a lot.

Adam:

Yeah, I liked him too.

Adam:

I didn't like how he treated his coworkers, though.

Adam:

He kinda seemed like a dick manager.

Xhafer:

He is bad boss vibes.

Xhafer:

A hundred

Xhafer:

percent.

Xhafer:

So when we actually start getting into the story of this movie, it starts with

Xhafer:

a news reporter giving us the backstory.

Xhafer:

As Harrison Ford gets taken to a car uh, we get a name, Dr.

Xhafer:

Richard Kimball.

Xhafer:

We learn he is a surgeon we, his wife was murdered.

Xhafer:

they spent the evening at a fundraiser for the nondescript Children's Research

Xhafer:

Fund, and then we get a literal flashback to earlier in the evening.

Xhafer:

This was such a good shot.

Xhafer:

The, the camera flash whiting out the screen to the flashback was so slick.

Xhafer:

I really liked it.

Adam:

Yeah, and it's, Flashback is the only place that Cila

Adam:

Ward appears in this movie.

Adam:

Like she's never alive for real in the movie's timeline.

Adam:

I Thought that was interesting.

Adam:

Cila Ward's great in this movie.

Adam:

She doesn't get a whole lot to do, but like lest we forget, she was a

Adam:

big star back in the early nineties.

Xhafer:

Uh, This children's fundraiser is of course, complete with a

Xhafer:

jungle print swimsuit fashion show.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

What the actual hell is going on here?

Xhafer:

This was so bizarre.

Laura:

it's your classic swimwear fashion show fundraiser.

Laura:

Everybody does those.

Laura:

You've never been a fair.

Adam:

For kids,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Harrison Ford gets a call to go to the hospital to help with surgery on his

Xhafer:

literal car phone, which just remembering those existed aged to be significantly.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I do remember the bag phone.

Adam:

are you allowed to do surgery after you've been partying?

Adam:

Because he doesn't disclose that on the phone 'cause they're like, Hey doctor,

Adam:

like we need, we need you to help on one.

Adam:

And I think maybe that's the reason why they don't care is like he

Adam:

was just there to assist, right?

Adam:

He's not there to like be the main surgeon.

Xhafer:

Was he drinking at all?

Xhafer:

I don't even remember.

Xhafer:

I should

Adam:

mean, wouldn't you drink if you were going to a children's hospital fundraiser

Adam:

featuring like animal print runway walks?

Adam:

That's the only way I'm getting through that.

Xhafer:

Fair

Laura:

thing I got out of this movie was that in the nineties you

Laura:

could get away with a lot more.

Laura:

There was a lot that would not happen today.

Adam:

I know we're all used to seeing Harrison Ford look a certain way, and I

Adam:

think that certain way is without a beard.

Adam:

So like when they introduce him as bearded Harrison Ford, I think it really,

Adam:

like Star Trek does this a lot, right?

Adam:

Like we're introduced to an alien of the week that's like been through a horrible

Adam:

accident and they're disfigured, and then not long after, like they're cured

Adam:

or helped or whatever, and all of that loaf is removed and they're revealed

Adam:

to be a beautiful person, I think.

Adam:

I think that very crucially is what's happening with Harrison

Adam:

Ford here, because if you're.

Adam:

If you're making a movie starting Harrison Ford, you don't wanna

Adam:

cover up his face with that beard.

Adam:

You wanna get that thing shaved off as soon as possible.

Xhafer:

for sure.

Xhafer:

He is.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

You can't have him grow the beard to be not recognizable.

Adam:

Exactly.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

It's weird.

Adam:

Like he looks more like a fugitive in the beginning of this movie than

Laura:

Yes, totally agree.

Xhafer:

Uh,

Xhafer:

We see 'em answering questions at the station.

Xhafer:

They're asking lots of stuff like no random calls to the house.

Xhafer:

They ask about the fight at the apartment, the security system, the

Xhafer:

gun they own, and where it's kept.

Xhafer:

The police have clearly made up their minds at this point.

Xhafer:

They say they found his skin under her nails.

Xhafer:

I had to check this.

Xhafer:

d n a testing was around back then, but it was limited to blood and

Xhafer:

took six to eight weeks to process.

Laura:

dang.

Xhafer:

So

Adam:

So do you think it was a bluff by the investigators?

Xhafer:

think it was just the cops being lazy.

Adam:

Huh.

Laura:

Mm.

Adam:

I would've asked why the Kimball's keep a stone bocce ball on the nightstand.

Adam:

That seems suspicious to me.

Laura:

You

Laura:

never know where you're gonna need to wake up and club somebody with the bocce ball.

Adam:

Bad idea.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We moved to a court case pretty quickly where the judge

Xhafer:

is putting it all together.

Xhafer:

No forcible entry was found.

Xhafer:

Someone had the key in the code.

Xhafer:

We see the attack as Richard gets home, they play the nine one one phone

Xhafer:

call and she does say Richard's name.

Xhafer:

But I have to wonder, we don't see it here.

Xhafer:

What the hell is his lawyer doing?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Why does he call this guy for help later?

Laura:

He was not super helpful, clearly.

Xhafer:

Yeah, he did.

Xhafer:

He, I mean, I'm sure he didn't actively, or rather passively just

Xhafer:

sit through all of this, like we are led to believe through the.

Xhafer:

Way that this is all cut up and shown to us, but you have to at least offer

Xhafer:

some kind of counter argument to that.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

Helen Kimball did her husband dirty though.

Adam:

Like if you know you're about to die, you can't say who is innocent

Adam:

into the phone.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

That would be so upsetting.

Adam:

Like I wouldn't want to be angry at my wife at the very end for doing that,

Adam:

but I have to admit, I would be pretty upset that, that she would put me in

Adam:

that position by saying my name last.

Laura:

yeah,

Xhafer:

We don't even get so somebody that uh, sweet, sweet yelling

Xhafer:

of objection that I'm so looking forward to in every court scene ever.

Adam:

How about.

Adam:

We are like in the first 13 minutes, like death penalty.

Adam:

Like that's how fast this movie

Xhafer:

The credits are still rolling when he's in prison.

Adam:

yeah.

Adam:

Where are all his doctor friends in the courtroom too?

Adam:

Like all these people who claim to like and support him, like I would've loved to

Adam:

have a Jane Lynch cutaway or something.

Adam:

Like in the gallery.

Xhafer:

Yeah, anything

Xhafer:

Ain't got time for that.

Xhafer:

The first half of this movie's gotta run real quick.

Adam:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Once we get to the prison scene did anybody recognize the mustache man?

Laura:

The uh, deputy with the mustache who's helping take Harrison Ford off to

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

Was that the Richard Reel?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Richard Real.

Adam:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's the jump to conclusions guy from Office Space.

Laura:

That's where I remembered

Adam:

It's so great.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Great to see him.

Adam:

I was almost positive I saw John C.

Adam:

Reilly in this movie too, as an uncredited random police officer.

Adam:

But I couldn't confirm this.

Laura:

That'd be fantastic.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I was aghast that the death penalty was on the table in 1993,

Xhafer:

and then I did some research and who,

Adam:

Everything's on the table in 93.

Laura:

Everything's still on the table in Oklahoma.

Xhafer:

everything's still on the table in like 35 states.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, that's

Xhafer:

That was shocking.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

I really love how good Harrison Ford is.

Adam:

Like, I don't think you ever see him break really, except for two times.

Adam:

Right.

Adam:

Once is like when he thinks that the police have finally caught him

Adam:

when he is living in the basement of that Russian lady's house.

Adam:

And instead they're catching his kid and you see him like exhale

Adam:

and like almost break there.

Adam:

But did you notice like that wild micro expression he has on the prison

Adam:

bus where he, he like does that cool Hollywood lip quiver thing.

Adam:

Like you can tell he's scared to be on the bus, but he's holding it together somehow.

Adam:

I love that part of this movie and, and that's like, like Harrison Ford is

Adam:

great for so many things, but I feel like people don't often think about

Adam:

like all the little stuff Harrison Ford does that makes him a great actor.

Adam:

And I think that's one of the things.

Laura:

he's fantastic.

Laura:

Speaking of the bus, do we think that Richard Kimball

Laura:

knew they were gonna pull this?

Laura:

Do we think that he was in on the whole

Adam:

because he's looking around at the other inmates and they're

Adam:

looking around at each other.

Adam:

Like it kind of seems like maybe he's caught in the middle of a situation

Adam:

where everyone else knows what's going on and he's just trying to act as

Adam:

if he's not gonna blow it for them.

Adam:

Right.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Here I was just paying attention to their color coded prison outfits,

Xhafer:

wondering what gangs they belonged in, or if they're crime coded or what.

Xhafer:

But yeah.

Xhafer:

So on the field trip here to Menard Prison they tricked the guard,

Xhafer:

accidentally killed the driver, and this bus just turns into a gag from Hot Rod.

Adam:

This was it, like this was the big action explosion

Adam:

set piece of the entire film,

Adam:

and it happens in the first 20 minutes of the movie.

Adam:

Right?

Adam:

Kind of amazing.

Xhafer:

The thing that bothered me about this whole thing is the

Xhafer:

bus somehow goes from parallel to perpendicular to be hit by the train.

Laura:

So,

Xhafer:

And I know it's like the stupidest detail, and they do a really good job

Xhafer:

of all of the details in this movie.

Xhafer:

Like when we see the overhead of the ditch and the highway and everything, it

Xhafer:

all kind of comes together, except that the train is, well, the bus is facing the

Xhafer:

wrong way to be hit by the train somehow.

Laura:

yeah.

Xhafer:

And I,

Laura:

They're counting on it moving too fast and you don't notice.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Adam:

You're a stickler for bus direction continuity.

Adam:

I get

Xhafer:

yeah, it's, it's a vice really.

Xhafer:

But

Adam:

How scary, like, as scary as the bus getting hit by the train was the

Adam:

perspective of Kimball running at camera with the train behind him like, like

Adam:

gouging out the earth, I thought was.

Adam:

A 10 outta 10 amazing shot like

Adam:

that is breathtaking,

Laura:

that's a, a shot kind that he's familiar with as you know, Indiana Jones.

Adam:

right?

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

The, uh, train is the rolling

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Harrison Survives diving under a bridge, mostly unscathed.

Xhafer:

He has like a little side puncture, but it's not.

Xhafer:

Too bad.

Xhafer:

I mean, he runs for like 12 hours afterwards, so how

Xhafer:

bad could it possibly be?

Adam:

it seems like every freight train nowadays carries like

Adam:

a dangerous, toxic chemical.

Adam:

He's really lucky.

Adam:

He wasn't just liquified inside chlorine, underneath that bridge.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

My first instinct when uh, the train derailed was like, Hmm, do

Laura:

trains just explode like that?

Laura:

And then I thought about the last two months, and maybe they do, I don't know.

Adam:

There's no way.

Adam:

20 years later, if they were to make this movie, that train

Adam:

doesn't explode all the way

Adam:

and take out half a florist.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

one of his, uh, fellow prisoners helps Kimball out and then tells him

Xhafer:

to go anyway, but the way he's going and as he runs, Tommy Lee arrives

Xhafer:

on site, US Marshall Samuel Gerard.

Xhafer:

He finds the local sheriff, assuming everyone is dead, and he's a bit of a

Xhafer:

dick about it who's just like, fine, I'm taking over the investigation and what

Xhafer:

follows is an atypical reaction for media.

Xhafer:

But honestly, exactly what I would do if I was the sheriff and a US marshal showed

Xhafer:

up, which is just fuck it, it's your mess.

Xhafer:

Every

Adam:

I mean, it's probably a Friday.

Adam:

No one wants to be there any longer than they have to be.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is the Fed's problem now.

Laura:

Peace boys.

Adam:

It's a few days before St.

Adam:

Patrick's Day.

Adam:

You got to, you got to, you gotta get all the, the whiskey and

Adam:

beer.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is one of those moments I had in this movie where I realized like, even

Laura:

though I had never seen this movie and I had discovered, I've actually only ever

Laura:

seen two non Lucas Film Harrison Ford movies I was still familiar with the

Laura:

like zeitgeist around it because I've definitely heard the henhouse outhouse

Laura:

doghouse quote before, like, I knew that.

Adam:

Yeah, it's timeless.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Great line.

Adam:

It's, what they're going to play Like when, when Tommy Lee dies and the

Adam:

Academy Awards do the, imm Memoria, like, how could that not be his, his clip

Laura:

Yeah,

Adam:

that's gonna be tied to him forever.

Xhafer:

They immediately find a leg restraint without

Xhafer:

legs starting the manhunt.

Xhafer:

Tommy Lee sets the speed distance traversable and where the checkpoints

Xhafer:

will be immediately giving us a kind of frame of reference of motion

Xhafer:

for the next bit of this movie.

Adam:

What if those leg restraints had legs, though?

Xhafer:

just

Adam:

That'd make this, that'd make this harder.

Adam:

R

Adam:

Right, because this was at a time where like PG 13 was still uh, a little exotic.

Adam:

You don't know what you're gonna be able to see in PG 13.

Adam:

Maybe you see legs in shackles and that's it.

Adam:

Yeah.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

I was like, could I watch this movie with my son?

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

It says PG 13, but I'm gonna go with no.

Xhafer:

safe bet.

Xhafer:

Kimball runs until the next morning where he finds a medical

Xhafer:

facility where he treats himself.

Xhafer:

He manages to hide from a nurse behind a door, change his clothes, shaves,

Xhafer:

and talks to a cop on his way out.

Xhafer:

Oh, the slick move here

Adam:

You, gonna just skip over the giant egg salad sandwich he eats

Adam:

off of that old man's tray table.

Laura:

I was wondering how this old man was supposed to

Laura:

eat in that neck brace, like,

Adam:

I love, I love that this movie did that 'cause so often the movies

Adam:

play the fantasy of how many bullets were in that clip or like when does he

Adam:

have time to sleep or eat or whatever.

Adam:

Like actually giving us an eating scene I thought was great at this moment.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He needs those calories.

Adam:

That old man dies of malnutrition though.

Adam:

Like that's, that's the sad part.

Laura:

She did say he needed to eat for his strength

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Uh, that's rough.

Laura:

It's too bad

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

I mean, Dr.

Adam:

Kimball saves so many, but he did, he did murder that guy through malnutrition.

Laura:

he manages a potty count of one.

Laura:

It's

Xhafer:

whole movie.

Adam:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

he talks to a cop on his way out where he is all like he d

Xhafer:

he asks for the description, the cop describes the dude he's looking at.

Xhafer:

He's all like, oh, look in a mirror.

Xhafer:

Just

Xhafer:

walks away.

Adam:

yeah.

Adam:

'cause he is too busy looking at Harrison.

Adam:

Ford's crank sticking out of his zipper.

Adam:

Right.

Laura:

That's true.

Laura:

That's true.

Xhafer:

He helps the guard.

Xhafer:

He saved out of an ambulance before he lifts the ambulance.

Xhafer:

And then we cut over to Tommy Lee's camp.

Adam:

Oh, I was just gonna

Adam:

say, I wish we saw more of this, this uh, guard, right?

Adam:

Like where's the bedside interview with him?

Adam:

Like where's the follow up with him?

Adam:

I kind of wanted to live with that character a bit more.

Xhafer:

There is a little bit of that from a lot of characters in

Xhafer:

this movie especially this first half where it's just moving so quick.

Adam:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

After we cut over to Tommy Lee's Camp, Hey, I know this guy.

Xhafer:

Hey look, it's Joe Pantoliano getting some screen time uh, to borrow your parlance.

Xhafer:

He's real, that guy.

Adam:

He is, I, everyone has gone through a costume change here in camp.

Adam:

Everyone's getting a little comfortable at base camp.

Laura:

we like to see that.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

US Marshals really dress up most of the time.

Adam:

That's what I gathered from this

Adam:

movie.

Xhafer:

and ties.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Is there some pressure as being feds that you gotta like look

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Like you wanna distinguish yourself from the local police or whatever, and,

Adam:

the, and for that, you go to l l Bean.

Laura:

Yeah, for sure.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

We cut over to Harrison Ford driving his real notable escape car.

Xhafer:

The ambulance,

Xhafer:

uh, they have a sighting and everyone loads into the helicopter to give chase.

Xhafer:

they find him, he dodges cop cars.

Xhafer:

He gets into a tunnel as the helicopter lays down at one end to close it off.

Xhafer:

He runs out of the ambulance as they approach makes it to a sewer drain.

Xhafer:

so everyone's just this, this move.

Xhafer:

movie's so quick.

Xhafer:

So they're following, they're like 20 feet behind him at all points, and

Xhafer:

we're cutting back and forth and we see them follow him down the sewer drain.

Xhafer:

He tosses his coat down one end of a wide to try and get them

Xhafer:

to follow, but the marshals just Scooby do it and split up anyways.

Adam:

Is wearing a thick cable knit sweater, the very worst thing

Adam:

you could be wearing in a sewer.

Xhafer:

it's so heavy.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

That

Xhafer:

just so absorbent.

Laura:

yeah, I think at one point he falls in the water and at the next scene.

Laura:

I'm like, that thing shouldn't be that dry.

Laura:

Shouldn't be that dry.

Xhafer:

Tommy Lee is hot on his trail.

Xhafer:

Uh, He slips, Harrison gets his gun.

Xhafer:

Harrison Ford says that he didn't kill his wife.

Xhafer:

And Tommy Lee's famous response.

Xhafer:

I don't care

Xhafer:

what an asshole.

Adam:

But it's also the perfect description for his

Adam:

entire professional mission.

Adam:

Like it's not his job to

Laura:

Right.

Adam:

his job to arrest and apprehend.

Xhafer:

definitely like, he's definitely doing his job and, and his actions

Xhafer:

are not outside the bounds of that.

Adam:

How many guns do you think he has on his body, though?

Adam:

He has that secret gun under the Velcro?

Adam:

I thought that was a hot move.

Laura:

You gotta have one down at the foot, right?

Laura:

down

Adam:

Totally.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's at least got three on him.

Adam:

I think Dr.

Adam:

Kimball's cable knit sweater is so covered in sewage that jumping off

Adam:

of the dam into the clean water below has got to be like attractive.

Adam:

Right?

Adam:

It's not just fleeing Tommy Lee Jones's character.

Adam:

It's like the only way to get clean is to die or to jump into the water below.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That thing's gotta be really heavy though.

Laura:

It's amazing.

Laura:

He doesn't drown

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

I mean, that's like the science experiment, right?

Adam:

Like the, the rate of falling of like a bowling ball or a feather is supposed

Adam:

to be the same, but like a bowling ball of feather and a cable net sweater.

Adam:

waterlogged with sewage, like that falls the same.

Adam:

Also,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

This has gotta be what you think.

Xhafer:

Is it the most famous scene of a movie from the nineties?

Adam:

I mean, Jurassic Park being this very same year, like

Adam:

I looked up all the great movies from 93, 93 was a, I curse on this

Xhafer:

Oh,

Laura:

Yes, absolutely.

Adam:

93 was a fucking killer year for movies.

Adam:

Like there are so many good movies in 93, I think.

Adam:

I think it's kind of unfortunate that the Fugitive is as good as it is, and I don't

Adam:

think it will be remembered as maybe even the top three best movie of this year.

Adam:

Like there's a lot of good ones in it.

Xhafer:

What were some of those others besides Jurassic Park,

Adam:

tombstone was one of 'em

Adam:

uh,

Adam:

menace to Society.

Adam:

Now I'm, now I'm gonna have to look at 'em up, but, uh, like the Sandlot was 93,

Laura:

Oh wow.

Adam:

like really memorable films.

Adam:

The firm, you remember the firm, right?

Adam:

And Pelican Brief.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Man.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

There you go.

Laura:

going on in 93.

Xhafer:

After this jump, most of the marshals assume that he's dead.

Xhafer:

And Tommy Lee you said, well, that will make him easy to find.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

there.

Adam:

The deputies are like, he was just covered in sewage.

Adam:

He probably wanted to kill himself.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Adam:

dead.

Xhafer:

Tommy Lee sets new parameters around the last known location.

Xhafer:

Kimball runs until he can't, and we get some flashbacks that

Xhafer:

start sexy before turning tragic.

Laura:

Yeah

Adam:

Helen Kimball seems like a really cool wife.

Adam:

You know, like keeping the fire alive between she and Richard.

Adam:

Like they seem good for each other.

Adam:

Like that's what these scenes do.

Adam:

Like they make her death a real tragedy.

Laura:

Yeah, Uh, He gets called away to uh, go do surgery after

Laura:

their nice date, and she's still like setting out the alcohol, doing

Adam:

Yeah, he's definitely gonna wanna get hammered after cardiothoracic surgery.

Laura:

Right.

Adam:

Nothing washes blood off like champagne, right.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

That's the thing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

he wakes up and a pile leaves.

Xhafer:

He makes his way out.

Xhafer:

And we see the US marshals get on a plane because they've got a lead on the other.

Xhafer:

Escapee the marshals conduct a no-knock raid and find the other escapes fugitive.

Xhafer:

Uh, He grabs one of the marshals and then gets executed by Tabby Lee.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This feels real bad, doesn't it guys?

Xhafer:

I

Adam:

It's real cold-blooded, and I think everyone knows it,

Adam:

like people in the scene know it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

It's not just like modern people looking at a past movie and

Adam:

going like, oh, that's gross and contemptible for, for its time.

Adam:

Like in its time it was contemptible.

Laura:

yeah, yeah.

Laura:

He, he points the gun at the, the black lady that's in there,

Laura:

and I'm just like, oh God, no.

Laura:

This is a little too contemporary.

Adam:

The interesting consequence of this scene is how it changes Newman, right?

Adam:

Because Newman and like everyone else who's a marshal, are like dressed

Adam:

as hobos from the neighborhood before storming the house.

Adam:

And like Newman's gross hair is hanging down.

Adam:

Like he looks, he looks totally strung out.

Adam:

And then like from this scene on, he is so buttoned up and cleaned up.

Adam:

Like it feels like that that costume change is part of what is telling us that

Adam:

he has changed, like as a personality.

Adam:

Like you'll notice he doesn't really do a bunch of joking around

Adam:

from this point forward either.

Adam:

Like it's almost like he's Tommy Lee Jones's.

Adam:

Lieutenant, like his main guy from here on out.

Adam:

Like he really takes his job business life seriously.

Adam:

After this,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Adam:

Tommy Lee Jones doesn't change from here though.

Adam:

I don't think Tommy Lee Jones changes at all in this movie.

Xhafer:

he, he definitively doesn't even at the end when there's a glimmer of him

Xhafer:

changing, he makes Harrison Ford swear to secrecy that he won't tell anyone.

Laura:

yeah,

Laura:

He's like, I am definitely not

Laura:

changing.

Laura:

Sorry.

Xhafer:

Richard has made his way back to Chicago where he calls

Xhafer:

his lawyer like a big idiot.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

yeah.

Adam:

You gotta

Adam:

call Jane Lynch, call anyone, but, but the lawyer

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He wasn't very helpful before.

Laura:

Why will he be helpful now?

Adam:

with all that money, you'd think he would've been

Adam:

able to afford better counsel.

Xhafer:

exactly,

Xhafer:

He ambushes his friend Chris Nichols for cash while the marshals pull back to

Xhafer:

let him relax and hence reveal himself.

Xhafer:

They also start to dig into his wife's murder, assuming that that's

Xhafer:

the reason he came back to Chicago.

Adam:

Nichols has got a great haircut, right?

Adam:

Like the great early nineties haircut that looks like it's plastic.

Xhafer:

yeah,

Xhafer:

just so much gel.

Xhafer:

It's just frozen in place.

Adam:

I think he's kind of reverse kimberling here because like in the

Adam:

way Richard Kimball starts bearded and disheveled and then gets cleaned

Adam:

up and looking like Harrison Fords in the movie goes like, you need Dr.

Adam:

Nichols to look super cleaned up in the beginning in order to

Adam:

like show him getting the shit kicked out of him at the end

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And we even see him in his B M W.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Nichols has a kind of an accent, right?

Adam:

he's played by I think a Norwegian actor,

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I couldn't place it at all, but it reminded me of that thing that we kind

Laura:

of have in other nineties movies uh, nineties action movies, if we have

Laura:

that sort of, um, foreign villain

Adam:

right?

Laura:

die hard doing it famously.

Adam:

yeah, yeah.

Adam:

Was that the tip,

Adam:

like in that nineties movie kind of way?

Adam:

Like should we have known that he was evil for his non-specific Norwegian accent?

Xhafer:

The cops are drawn in to help the search here.

Xhafer:

And I gotta ask, did you see the, the sketches they had of Harrison

Xhafer:

Ford next to the police chief as he was instructing the officers?

Adam:

No, I didn't catch that part.

Laura:

that

Xhafer:

are miserable.

Xhafer:

They look nothing like Harrison Ford.

Xhafer:

And you've got gotta be one of the most recognizable faces on earth in 1993.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

if you get 10 random human beings who are alive on planet Earth

Xhafer:

in 1993, no matter where they are, at least half of them are gonna be able to

Xhafer:

pull Harrison forward out of a lineup.

Laura:

Is that a commentary on how useless police sketches are?

Laura:

Because I feel like there's been research on this that like trying to

Laura:

recreate somebody's face for a police sketch is not famously not accurate.

Xhafer:

They have photos.

Xhafer:

They have photos of him.

Xhafer:

The entire movie, like when they get off the train, they've got

Adam:

When there's a photo, there's no need for sketch.

Adam:

You're

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Oh yeah.

Xhafer:

It's like they drew him without the beard and all of a sudden his

Xhafer:

chin is just a straight triangle.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

if his hair were dyed black, though?

Adam:

He'd be unrecognizable.

Adam:

Isn't it crazy how little that hair dye lasts?

Adam:

Like, I'm not a person who's ever dyed my hair, but like, I don't, I think

Adam:

it's supposed to last longer than a day.

Adam:

Right?

Adam:

Because it's black on, on day one.

Adam:

But then he's like back to Harrison Ford light Brown the very next

Xhafer:

We do know, I mean, a year takes place over the course of this movie.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

say that towards the end.

Adam:

What

Adam:

I thought that was about the length of the trial, but but like as a fugitive,

Adam:

I thought it was just a couple of days.

Xhafer:

Well, they don't, we definitely get some time passed when he is on

Xhafer:

the run, but it's, it's hard to say.

Xhafer:

Like

Adam:

I swear I was paying attention.

Laura:

this movie just goes that fast, like, who knows?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He must have bought the cheap dye though, like that, that box stuff that doesn't

Laura:

last if you don't take care of it.

Laura:

You gotta use the right shampoo.

Laura:

Something gentle.

Laura:

No sulfates,

Adam:

know what, when he got that room from the Russian family, you

Adam:

probably don't want to get hair dye all over the sheets and stuff, so

Adam:

maybe he went and he washed it out

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

It'd be very courteous.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

You know, he is a thoughtful house

Adam:

guest.

Xhafer:

Kimball makes his way to his old hospital.

Xhafer:

He heads to the prosthetics lap and uh, starts setting up a fake identity.

Xhafer:

De poses a janitor here.

Xhafer:

He steals a badge that he can get his own photo and put it on.

Xhafer:

It gets a uniform and stuff.

Adam:

All we ever see him clean or blinds though, I wanna see, I wanna

Adam:

see Harrison Ford cleaning a fucking row of urinals and, and picking

Adam:

chewed gum out of them, you know.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

just add another hour to this runtime.

Xhafer:

Really slow it down.

Xhafer:

Here.

Xhafer:

Just here.

Xhafer:

Give us that scene.

Adam:

it's possible to root for Harrison Ford Moore if we

Adam:

just show him doing janitorial

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Allow him with the common man

Xhafer:

instead of the ultra wealthy surgeon who's also married to

Xhafer:

someone even wealthier than he is,

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The Marshals are interviewing Dr.

Xhafer:

Nichols.

Xhafer:

he tells him that he saw Richard this morning and gave him some cash.

Xhafer:

And then we have an interview with Jane Fucking Lynch

Xhafer:

we see a montage of both investigations into the murder, Richards and Sam's.

Xhafer:

And then we finally get a look at our killer.

Xhafer:

It's Andreas.

Xhafer:

Hey.

Laura:

About time.

Xhafer:

And this is when he wakes up just in time for the police raid.

Xhafer:

is a great fake out.

Xhafer:

I I was completely just like, oh, he's screwed as all the

Xhafer:

cops are surrounding the place.

Xhafer:

And then there was, find out.

Xhafer:

We're just there for the landlord's son who.

Adam:

Good restraint by him not busting out the door and,

Adam:

and trying to run for it.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

I learned a lot about fleeing the police from this

Xhafer:

I'm sure that is actually useful information.

Xhafer:

Uh, so good luck.

Xhafer:

Kimball uses the computer in the prosthetics lab to narrow down his

Xhafer:

list to five people while the arrested son gives up Kimball's location.

Xhafer:

And then Tommy Lee starts to go through his clothes looking for clues.

Adam:

It's kind of wild how Kimball.

Adam:

Is dressed appropriately for Midwest Winter a lot of the time, and I think at

Adam:

this point he stops being well dressed for winter and he's just like just

Adam:

wearing a tweed blazer with the neck lifted up and it's like March in Chicago

Adam:

at night and that's how he is wearing.

Adam:

To me, that's conspicuous.

Laura:

See, I only know weather from the South, so I'm like, that seems fine.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

It just seems too cold for that, blazer.

Laura:

Yeah, you're probably right.

Xhafer:

It might be Dr.

Xhafer:

Julianne Moore gets Harrison to take a patient down to observation and

Xhafer:

he adjusts a file as the kid's going down, saving his life so heroic.

Xhafer:

It just costs him his cover as the marshals arrive.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

a great scene that makes you love Kimball even more, but like how

Adam:

great is it seeing Julianne Moore in, I mean, it's not a cameo, but

Adam:

it's, she's just great in everything.

Xhafer:

It's true.

Laura:

I thought when we had the scene that we were setting her up

Laura:

to be something like she was going to come back in some sort of way

Laura:

or or Ally with Richard Kimball,

Laura:

and

Adam:

mean, Julianne Moore was Capital J, capital M, Julianne Moore in 1993.

Adam:

Like it's not like, I think that was a good expectation to have.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

She's in the lead credits, so,

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

it's not even like they considered it a bit part for the movie or anything.

Laura:

yeah,

Xhafer:

Tommy Lee spends some time in the prosthetics ward following up on what he

Xhafer:

thinks Harrison Ford is following up on.

Xhafer:

His list is 47 names, but he also has, you know, a whole bunch

Xhafer:

more people to look into stuff.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

Uh, I love these computers that they're doing their search on,

Laura:

like, nice to know that they were that high powered back then.

Laura:

It's good.

Xhafer:

As an information technology professional.

Xhafer:

I can promise you that that computer is still running in

Xhafer:

a hospital basement somewhere

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

it's stable as

Xhafer:

untouched by time.

Xhafer:

It's an i b m a s 400.

Xhafer:

Those things run for forever.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Don't make 'em like that anymore.

Xhafer:

Nope.

Xhafer:

After this, we see the Green River running in Chicago, which means it's St.

Xhafer:

Patrick's Day.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

If you're unaware, this is a thing that does actually

Xhafer:

happen every year still.

Xhafer:

It is apparently not terrible for the river.

Xhafer:

They do it with oranges.

Xhafer:

It costs about $2,000 to die.

Xhafer:

the river red,

Laura:

green.

Xhafer:

green, fuck words.

Xhafer:

ah,

Adam:

More costly to die at Red, I

Adam:

think.

Laura:

Yeah, an uncountable cost.

Laura:

Even

Xhafer:

Kimball continues narrowing down his list of five.

Xhafer:

Uh, He visits an inmate, takes him off the list as a guard, IDs him.

Xhafer:

He starts to make his way down the stairs, but the federal marshals are already here.

Xhafer:

They just almost miss each other.

Xhafer:

And then Tommy Ely realizes, turns around, shouts his name down the stairs, and when

Xhafer:

he looks up, he knows he's been made.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

What a boss move.

Xhafer:

Just yell the dude's name and wait for him to turn.

Xhafer:

Like this could've if if just an ounce more restraint, he could've

Xhafer:

just kept going and ignored it.

Xhafer:

Been fine.

Adam:

Tommy Lee Jones feels so bad about losing his guy here that he

Adam:

just shoots and shoots and shoots in the lobby scene that follows.

Laura:

Into the bulletproof glass.

Laura:

Not dangerous at all.

Adam:

Wow.

Adam:

What a moment.

Adam:

I thought for sure that he'd shoot his foot.

Xhafer:

If you look, I mean, the bullets were all very well aimed.

Xhafer:

Like the way the shots organized, we see the bullet impacts, right?

Xhafer:

Where Harrison Ford's head is on the other side and he's just fine and it's

Xhafer:

very jarring and it takes a minute to even consider the foot as a target.

Adam:

Oh, so you think, you think that if he wanted to shoot his foot, he would've,

Xhafer:

I,

Adam:

and he chose not

Adam:

to

Xhafer:

I think he thought, he didn't realize the foot was an option.

Xhafer:

He was too focused on the head and chest.

Xhafer:

I.

Adam:

Like I know, God.

Adam:

What movie was that?

Adam:

I think that was like True Romance, where James Gal Feeney gets the top

Adam:

of his foot stabbed with a knife.

Adam:

Like we've seen foot trauma in action films before, but I don't know if I've

Adam:

ever seen like a foot held out with the heel and to have that be shot.

Adam:

That would've been an amazing, that would be more memorable than outhouse,

Adam:

henhouse chicken house, seeing, seeing a gun shoot the heel of a foot.

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

That's a, that's a smaller target though, like that's some trick shooting.

Adam:

yeah.

Adam:

I, mean, I think you, I think he regrets not shooting the foot because

Adam:

when he disappears in the parade, I mean, how many times does Tommy

Adam:

Lee Jones lose Kimball in a crowd

Adam:

all the time.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Wiley.

Laura:

We get a really embarrassing press conference after that.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Why even have this press conference if you're Tommy Lee Jones?

Adam:

Right.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

Do you have a, Do you have a,

Laura:

choice right.

Adam:

He's so sad in answering these questions if he answers them at all.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's uh, it's tough.

Xhafer:

I mean, I imagine you have to just because there were live fire at the St.

Xhafer:

Patrick's Day parade.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

this is the Tommy Lee Jones.

Adam:

You hope to get in if, if you're casting no country for old men, the

Adam:

really brief cards close to the vest.

Adam:

Tommy Lee Jones in dialogue kind of version of him like this, seems

Adam:

like that character a little bit.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Kimball starts to stake out in front of his next name on the list.

Xhafer:

He sees some police waiting outside too.

Xhafer:

He dodges them, but he does Id Andreas from the photos on the wall he finds

Xhafer:

photos with one of the doctors and checks stubs from a pharmaceutical company.

Xhafer:

He calls the marshals, letting them trace the call as he takes out evidence

Xhafer:

and just leaves stuff on the table for them to find and leaves the phone off

Xhafer:

the hook for them to finish the trace.

Xhafer:

While he starts to leave.

Xhafer:

Sykes comes home to a pile of police while Gerard questioned Sykes, who

Xhafer:

was investigated for the murder a year ago and has 15 witnesses to his alibi.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That is a ton

Adam:

Have you heard the term cloth horse before?

Adam:

Because when, when, uh, when one of the, one of the detectives rolls through Sykes

Adam:

house and you see like all of the racks of clothes, that's what she calls Sykes.

Adam:

I'd never heard that before.

Laura:

Yeah,

Adam:

Is that just a, a person who enjoys clothes or

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Laura:

That's how I've understood the context.

Laura:

Yeah,

Adam:

Is that an old timey phrase or do people actually say that?

Laura:

I mean, I've, I've definitely heard a few, you know, a friend or

Laura:

two referred to as a clothes horse.

Laura:

Somebody who's very fashionable, had a lot of a lot of stuff in their closet.

Laura:

Uh,

Laura:

Well, okay, this is 1993, right?

Laura:

So maybe question mark.

Laura:

Don't really remember that, but

Adam:

He does

Adam:

have a fancy trench coat toward the end.

Laura:

he does The thing that got me about Sykes and Jair having seen Babylon

Laura:

five, maybe this was you too, obviously Adam, you don't have any context.

Laura:

Too bad, but Doesn't he sound so different not affecting his voice

Laura:

and accent that he does for Babylon

Xhafer:

sure.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He sounds well human.

Xhafer:

But yeah, it's just it was completely uh, well, completely alien to

Xhafer:

me to hear his voice like that.

Laura:

I know.

Laura:

I was like, I can't believe it.

Laura:

This is what he sounds like, I

Laura:

guess.

Xhafer:

Well, presume, I mean, I'd have to find an interview, but Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We find out he's security for the pharmaceutical company.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

That is an interesting choice to employ a one-armed man in your bodyguard security.

Laura:

I don't wanna be ableist here, but seems like that might.

Laura:

Affect your ability to say lift 50 pounds.

Laura:

That's what my job, my job descriptions always say, must be

Laura:

able to lift 50 pounds or whatever.

Xhafer:

The vibe I got from it was that he was more of a planning person

Xhafer:

than a physical bodyguard person.

Adam:

Mm.

Xhafer:

Handles like their home security and systems and stuff.

Laura:

He's like the manager.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I thought he was out there bodyguarding, 'cause he is doing their dirty work,

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

But if he's, if he is there for all these execs, why wasn't he in

Xhafer:

town for their giant fundraiser?

Xhafer:

Was, was the thing that bothered me immediately.

Xhafer:

Where it's just all, like, where were all of these people?

Xhafer:

If not at this swanky party you throw to have a swanky party as a corporation.

Laura:

yeah,

Adam:

he was in the lot parking cars.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Kimball calls Dr.

Xhafer:

Nichols again to ask about Dr.

Xhafer:

Lentz, who's the doctor from the photos.

Xhafer:

It's at this point that Campbell puts it all together, that

Xhafer:

this is a plot from Big Pharma,

Laura:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

That they were the two doctors that were looking into this drug.

Xhafer:

The marshals asked Dr.

Xhafer:

Nichols about one of the photos when they catch him at the conference, and

Xhafer:

he says he doesn't know Sykes Orlen, which would be important in a little bit.

Xhafer:

Cops are camped outside Sykes as he gets a phone call that is oh, so mysterious.

Xhafer:

He grabs a pistol, puts on a real nice trench coat and heads

Xhafer:

out as Richard collects more evidence on his wife's murderer.

Xhafer:

Dr.

Xhafer:

Jane Lynch confirms all the liver samples were from the same person thus proving

Xhafer:

the drug was harmful after all, and that someone had altered all of this evidence.

Xhafer:

Meanwhile, two of the marshals are digging around at the hospital while

Xhafer:

Sykes is looking on from the shadows.

Xhafer:

I am a sucker for a good hiding in the shadows.

Xhafer:

Cut that we, like we get here.

Xhafer:

It's just one of my favorite things.

Xhafer:

It's why uh, John Carpenter's Halloween is one of my favorite movies is

Xhafer:

'cause that movie is just, Hey, what if we did Cool Cuts from the Shadows

Xhafer:

but made it a whole fucking movie.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Just absolutely love it.

Xhafer:

The Marshals turn the hospital upside down as has Sykes has who sees Kimball leave

Xhafer:

and then pursues them to get on the L.

Adam:

This is a classic old man fight scene.

Adam:

Like Harrison Ford is so good at this, right?

Adam:

Like, it, like a credible fight scene for an older man.

Adam:

That's what this looks like.

Adam:

There's like, it's not, it's not too old guys like trading right?

Adam:

Hooks.

Adam:

Like they're barely landing anything.

Adam:

They're just kinda rolling around.

Adam:

They're like getting shoved into uh, grab handles and stuff.

Adam:

It's great.

Adam:

It looks totally plausible.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Harrison Ford was what, mid forties at this time.

Adam:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

And Andreas would've been

Xhafer:

Fifties.

Laura:

fifties.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

But Andreas seems like he's got weight on Harrison Ford like,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

tall guy.

Adam:

I mean, I don't know whether or not Sykes could fight Kimball with one arm

Adam:

tied behind his back like he does, though that might, that might even the odds

Xhafer:

Bit.

Laura:

Right, right.

Adam:

with respect to their ages.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

And this is really, this is when the movie picks up into gear again.

Xhafer:

We kind of had a wall for the last 20, 30 minutes and we resume a similar

Xhafer:

breakneck pace from here on out.

Xhafer:

The marshals start looking for nickels and sys.

Xhafer:

On the train, a passenger IDs Kimball

Laura:

Uhhuh,

Xhafer:

which gets the cop to come, which starts this fight.

Xhafer:

Sykes does kill a cop.

Xhafer:

They assume that it was Kimball, despite Sykes being handcuffed there,

Laura:

right.

Xhafer:

out.

Xhafer:

Uh, So now the cops are out for Kimball and looking for blood as well.

Xhafer:

We find out Dr.

Xhafer:

Nichols, as he's speaking at this conference, has been appointed to

Xhafer:

the board of that 7 billion a year company just because I can't do one

Xhafer:

of these movie episodes without our listeners expecting some math that is

Xhafer:

$14.7 billion adjusted for inflation from 1993.

Adam:

Wow.

Laura:

it still doesn't seem like that much these days.

Laura:

I don't know, we've, what is the market capitalization of Apple is like

Laura:

a trillion dollars now or something

Xhafer:

There's a handful of very, very, very large companies that

Xhafer:

kind of act as outliers there.

Xhafer:

I mean, a 14 billion company is still probably within the Fortune top 100.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Anyways Kimball crashes this convention and calls out Dr.

Xhafer:

Nichols in front of all of his colleagues.

Adam:

Is your favorite guy in the whole movie, the Spotlight

Adam:

guy during this scene?

Adam:

Because I love how Harrison Ford does the confrontation and like Dr.

Adam:

Nichols is like, all right, fuck this, I'm getting off stage, like mid speech.

Adam:

And he like goes off to the side to have a private conversation

Adam:

and the spotlight operator follows them all the way off stage.

Adam:

That guy's a total pro.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The real

Laura:

admire that.

Laura:

I really do.

Laura:

The enemy was capitalism all along, guys,

Adam:

That also really helps production because it, because

Adam:

the light source never changes as, even as the characters are moving

Adam:

through the scene.

Adam:

Like that's really good from that perspective too.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Those are the kind of details that.

Laura:

I couldn't pick up on, but seemed very important.

Xhafer:

Uh, they managed to remove themselves from the large audience.

Xhafer:

And Nichols attacks Kimble, The marshals arrive as the fight moves to

Xhafer:

the

Xhafer:

roof.

Adam:

old man fights in one

Adam:

day

Xhafer:

Within a couple, within an hour.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

is real

Xhafer:

close here.

Adam:

He's still sore from Sykes.

Adam:

He's gotta be

Adam:

right.

Xhafer:

percent.

Laura:

And this fight, we're gonna go all out.

Laura:

Like if you have a bingo card of nineties action movie things

Laura:

like we've got the helicopter now

Laura:

we're gonna go through a

Laura:

skylight.

Laura:

We're on a, like a skyscraper building.

Laura:

Like we, it's

Laura:

all

Laura:

here.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

They go through that, that glass window and land in an elevator shaft

Xhafer:

uh, with nickels going through and landing in dirty laundry and Kimball

Xhafer:

landing on top of the elevator.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

He gets it way worse, doesn't

Adam:

he?

Xhafer:

yeah.

Adam:

How sure were you that Dr.

Adam:

Nichols, after leaving the elevator, was going to send the

Adam:

elevator back up to crush Dr.

Adam:

Kimball?

Adam:

I thought that was gonna be the move.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I mean

Xhafer:

does he know he's up there?

Xhafer:

Is is

Xhafer:

Kim Okay.

Laura:

uh, surely, right?

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, you were falling, I don't know how much

Xhafer:

tension you were able to pay.

Laura:

But you know, he is right behind

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And they make it down to the uh, fifth floor as the elevator goes

Xhafer:

down, which is the laundry floor.

Xhafer:

And dramatically we get all of this steam, the moving bags.

Xhafer:

What a great place to set a fight scene.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Like using the the eye bar as a weapon against Joe Pantano, like that head

Adam:

strike on that thing looked really rough.

Adam:

That

Adam:

was well

Adam:

done.

Laura:

widow maker, right?

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

That's the widow maker.

Xhafer:

Gerard yells out the series of events proving Richard's innocence

Xhafer:

as Nichols is about to shoot him.

Xhafer:

But uh, Kimball knee Capsim saves Gerard bringing him up to

Xhafer:

three lives saved and one murder.

Xhafer:

Pretty good escape plan.

Adam:

that's

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Just that malnutrition.

Xhafer:

We see Sykes arrested.

Xhafer:

Gerard walks kindled out in cuffs, but once they're in the car, he takes 'em off.

Xhafer:

Hands 'em an ice pack as they drive off to credits.

Laura:

Into the sunset.

Xhafer:

What a movie?

Adam:

Do you think Dr.

Adam:

Kimball goes back to his old job and practices medicine after this?

Adam:

Because you gotta believe he's like acquitted or whatever, like

Adam:

he's a, he's gonna be a free man.

Adam:

What happens to him?

Laura:

Does the board give him his license back?

Laura:

I assume they revoked his license when he got convicted of

Xhafer:

More than likely.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

it

Xhafer:

might take some time and you probably take a little bit of time to heal up.

Xhafer:

You got all those old

Adam:

You definitely have to move.

Adam:

I don't know if you could live in that

Adam:

condo anymore.

Xhafer:

No, I

Adam:

Too many memories.

Adam:

You definitely don't play bocce ball ever

Xhafer:

No.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

no.

Xhafer:

In fact, probably he retires in 30 years, on a beach,

Xhafer:

someone hands him a bocce ball.

Xhafer:

He just starts openly weeping and no one understands why.

Adam:

You probably don't use tongs in the kitchen ever either.

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

To uh, too

Xhafer:

the call.

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I, I think doctor types, you do go back, right?

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

That's all he knows.

Adam:

And it's clearly in him to save.

Adam:

He wants to

Adam:

save people.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

He did a lot of that, except for the notable exception.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Maybe he gets into nutrition after this

Laura:

yeah.

Adam:

nutritional medicine.

Xhafer:

I could see him coming back with a vengeance and just like

Xhafer:

trying to get on the F D A board to approve drugs and just shutting

Xhafer:

evil corporations down for forever.

Xhafer:

Trying to make that a

Adam:

Yeah, that would be a good turn for him.

Laura:

What a, what a way to end a career,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

I don't think he's remarrying, though.

Adam:

I think the death of Helen Kimball was a tragedy and she's not replaceable

Adam:

as a, as a wife for sure.

Laura:

Agree.

Xhafer:

onto that flame for the rest of his life.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Adam:

Yeah, yeah,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

it's, it's about time for a TV reboot on this movie, right?

Laura:

That's how the timeline works.

Xhafer:

been 30 years.

Xhafer:

It's overdue.

Xhafer:

I'd say.

Xhafer:

Has it

Xhafer:

happened?

Xhafer:

Did I miss it?

Adam:

Great call.

Xhafer:

Where's my H B

Adam:

It might've already happened.

Adam:

This feels like it would've happened on c B S in the early two thousands.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

or maybe, maybe it happened on a streaming platform that I'm not

Laura:

subscribed to and I've just missed it.

Adam:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

There's no way Hollywood doesn't remake this.

Xhafer:

They're making another fucking won Willy Wonka movie right now, so,

Laura:

Are they?

Xhafer:

oh, yeah.

Xhafer:

Trailer dropped.

Xhafer:

It's got uh, Timothy, Sheme,

Laura:

Oh, fun.

Xhafer:

so

Laura:

So how do you feel about this movie, Adam?

Adam:

It was really fun to watch it.

Adam:

Again, I haven't seen it in a long time.

Adam:

Like I know I've seen it since it came out probably a half

Adam:

a dozen, half a dozen times.

Adam:

But yeah, just a good nostalgic feeling about what great movies were

Adam:

like in the early nineties and like I just saw the new Indiana Jones movie.

Adam:

I dunno if that places this recording in any time that you don't want,

Adam:

but

Laura:

that's fine.

Laura:

I.

Adam:

just saw it over the weekend and really enjoyed the

Adam:

Harrison Ford performance in that.

Adam:

And it was just a reminder of, of like how good he was 30 years ago or whatever.

Adam:

He's, he's great.

Adam:

He's

Adam:

one of the best.

Xhafer:

I have to go

Xhafer:

see that still.

Laura:

I haven't seen it either.

Laura:

I have a newborn, so this is definitely a kind of movie that I wouldn't

Laura:

seek out on my own, like the, the horror genre, the action genre.

Laura:

Those are two that I just generally don't look for.

Laura:

But having watched it for this found it a, a really fun romp, you

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

nice little nineties romp.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

No, it's a great movie.

Xhafer:

I will probably re-watch it in the next week or two without having to

Xhafer:

take notes and pause constantly.

Xhafer:

I'll probably enjoy it a lot more in that form, especially given its pace.

Xhafer:

It made it very difficult just from a like, podcasting perspective.

Xhafer:

It's like, I gotta talk about this.

Xhafer:

I gotta have like nine pages of notes in front of me.

Xhafer:

But I think just sitting down and watching it to watch it, I

Xhafer:

think I'm really gonna like it.

Adam:

Yeah, this feels like the perfect happens to be on cable TV type of movie

Adam:

in a hotel room or something that is like weird to say, like would be like a

Adam:

comfort watch, but like I would absolutely watch this, you know, 30 minutes in and

Adam:

watch it to the end as I'm like brushing my teeth and ready to go to bed in

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

city, you know?

Xhafer:

Yeah, well you'll have plenty of opportunity for

Xhafer:

that coming up with the tour.

Xhafer:

So uh, you wanna remind everyone where they can find you, Adam.

Adam:

Oh yeah.

Adam:

Uh, You can listen to my shows, the Greatest Generation and

Adam:

Greatest Trek, both of which are on the Maximum Fun Network.

Adam:

Uh, They're both about Star Trek Greatest Generation is about

Adam:

older Star Trek programming.

Adam:

And Greatest Trek is about all the new Star Trek that's coming

Adam:

out on the streaming services.

Adam:

And we're doing a live show tour at the end of August.

Adam:

I think it's like 16 dates, bunch of different cities this time around.

Adam:

Our live shows are about Star Trek movies and if I didn't mention it

Adam:

before uh, they're comedy shows.

Adam:

So if you like Star Trek, but you also like laughing about Star Trek

Adam:

we're really that kind of show.

Adam:

So listen and subscribe and come and see us on the road.

Laura:

Both shows are a

Laura:

delight.

Laura:

we we love them both

Adam:

Thanks for

Xhafer:

uh,

Xhafer:

It's the honest truth.

Xhafer:

Really enjoy both shows have for many, many years.

Xhafer:

And uh, will.

Xhafer:

Be happy to continue to listen.

Adam:

Hey, thanks.

Xhafer:

Well, thanks so much

Xhafer:

for coming on.

Laura:

community.

Laura:

So

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Adam:

Yeah, that's, that's been uh, the best part really is that we've

Adam:

done nothing to make that community.

Adam:

The community just happened all on its own.

Adam:

It's, it's been amazing to just kind of be a passenger for that.

Adam:

It's a special magic.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well, thanks for joining us.

Adam:

Thanks for having me, and thanks for being so patient.

Adam:

I know Laura and I talked about me being on the show last year at Star Trek, Las

Adam:

Vegas, and I put you guys off for months and months and months, and I just couldn't

Adam:

face you again at this year's Star Trek, Las Vegas if I hadn't been on the show.

Adam:

So I'm glad to have done this.

Adam:

I, I no longer feel guilty.

Adam:

And it was a, it was a hoot.

Adam:

I loved talking about the fugitive with you.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Maybe someday we'll talk about Babylon five

Laura:

maybe.

Laura:

No,

Adam:

really doubt that.

Laura:

I know

Xhafer:

We have another one of these next year.

Xhafer:

We won't ask until then.

Xhafer:

Uh,

Laura:

Yeah.

Adam:

talk to you then.

Xhafer:

Uh Oh, and uh, next week we've got Babylon five, season four episode 12.

Xhafer:

Conflicts of interest.

Xhafer:

Ivanova Prepares for her first resistance broadcast.

Xhafer:

Aldi's former lover involves him in a potentially lethal mission,

Xhafer:

and Sheridan must unite Shakar and Wando against a new foe.

Adam:

Ooh.

Laura:

Aren't you intrigued, Adam?

Xhafer:

It's a good show, we promise.

Adam:

I am, it sounds like I'm making fun, but I am.

Adam:

I'm absolutely not.

Laura:

No.

Xhafer:

alright, well, while we're talking to people, let's

Xhafer:

say thanks to Jeremy Siegel.

Xhafer:

Jeremy composed our excellent theme music.

Xhafer:

You can find more at Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com,

Xhafer:

and also on your favorite streaming services as nuclear jaguar.

Xhafer:

The June album's out, go listen to it.

Xhafer:

It's great.

Laura:

And thank you to Angry Duck time machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

Thanks, Aaron for editing our podcast and making

Xhafer:

sure that we sound intelligent instead of like dribbling idiots.

Xhafer:

Uh, Really appreciate you making this podcast The listenable.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's the real

Laura:

M V

Xhafer:

It's true.

Xhafer:

And then thank you to all of our fans who uh, decided to spend the last

Xhafer:

hour with Laura and Adam and I, we really appreciate all the time you

Xhafer:

put in and listening to the podcast and engaging with us in our community,

Xhafer:

which is you can find our discord.

Xhafer:

Who are you?

Xhafer:

b5@gmail.com.

Xhafer:

We have a Facebook and we have a Twitter that we mostly just wholly ignore.

Xhafer:

And to be perfectly honest, by the time this airs, the Twitter

Xhafer:

will probably be non-existent.

Xhafer:

So we'll see.

Xhafer:

All right, we'll see you next week.

Xhafer:

Internet.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.