Episode 64

full
Published on:

8th Feb 2023

S3E12 - Sociopathic Six-Year-Old

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Vir returns to B5 only to learn he is engaged to a racist. Sheridan attempts to cook a Minbari recipe he saw on Tik-Tok in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 12: Sic Transit Vir.

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello and welcome to Who Are You, A Babylon five watch cast

Xhafer:

hosted by two former strangers.

Xhafer:

Now, friends who have gotten to know each other while rewatching a favorite

Xhafer:

show from their childhood, Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

I'm Jafa.

Laura:

And I'm Laura,

Xhafer:

And today, Laura, I get to ask you, what do you want

Laura:

Well, you know, as a pregnant person entering their third

Laura:

trimester, I don't have a lot of grand and glorious wants anymore.

Laura:

you know, like an uninterrupted night of sleep, which I probably

Laura:

won't get for another year or two.

Laura:

uh, You know, like being able to.

Laura:

An hour without having to get up and go to the restroom.

Laura:

Those are the kind of things that I'm, you know, that's the kind of the

Laura:

place I'm at But you know something a little more interesting is I've

Laura:

been wanting to cook a lot more.

Laura:

I don't know if that's sort of like a nesting thing.

Laura:

you know, I, I'm not a cleaning person, so maybe my like tendencies are manifesting

Laura:

themselves as I want to cook and eat, and.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Do that kind of instinctual thing instead of tidying my space.

Laura:

but we've been cooking a lot at home.

Laura:

You know, we, we tend to eat out a lot at being two professionals who

Laura:

have full-time jobs and a child.

Laura:

So we are trying not to do that as much.

Laura:

but one of the things that I'm looking forward to making is Owen

Laura:

found a recipe that he really wants me to make for strawberry short.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

So I've never made Shortcakes.

Laura:

I'm curious as to how that's gonna go.

Xhafer:

you've got a lot of experience baking.

Xhafer:

I'm sure that's gonna turn out.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's just one of those things like from my childhood experience is baking.

Laura:

Like if you miss a step or you misread a line, sometimes you

Laura:

destroy the whole thing cuz It's

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

. Yeah.

Laura:

So it'll be a new chemistry experiment.

Laura:

And then I've been really into oatmeal cookies lately.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

I think oatmeal cookies actually are superior to chocolate chip cookies.

Laura:

Of

Xhafer:

Oh, someone is so angry right now.

Laura:

I know someone is very angry, but let me just say this.

Laura:

I don't do the oatmeal raisin.

Laura:

I do an oatmeal chocolate chip, is what I do.

Xhafer:

Oh, that sounds fun.

Xhafer:

Yeah, that sounds like a good cookie.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I just don't like, I don't know.

Laura:

I feel like I had a lot of bad chocolate chip cookies when I was a kid.

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

The chips were different back then or something.

Laura:

,you know, there were maybe, there were a lot of bad recipes being

Laura:

passed around between moms and stuff.

Xhafer:

I mean, real talk.

Xhafer:

Most American chocolate is terrible.

Laura:

yeah, exactly.

Laura:

Like, you know, now I can buy the Garelli chocolate chips.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

probably the highest quality American chocolate chip you can get,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

but like a Nestle.

Laura:

Come on.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Well no, that sounds good.

Xhafer:

. Oatmeal chocolate chip.

Xhafer:

I would try that cookie.

Xhafer:

I don't, I'm not big on cookies.

Xhafer:

I'm not big on sweets in general.

Xhafer:

I've probably said this before.

Laura:

In the breads and stuff?

Xhafer:

well, just, also, just like in general consumption.

Xhafer:

I'm not too much into sweets.

Xhafer:

My favorite cookie is a snicker doodle, though.

Laura:

I saw a recipe for peanut butter, chocolate chip, a peanut

Laura:

butter, oatmeal, chocolate chip, which is what I want to try next.

Xhafer:

Peanut butter, oatmeal, chocolate chip.

Xhafer:

That's a lot of flavors in a single cookie.

Laura:

There's a lot of things in a cookie, but you know,

Xhafer:

I

Laura:

you're, pregnant, you just gotta embrace it, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah, I, I don't say it with, with vitriol like . You know, if you

Xhafer:

can balance those things and make an excellent cookie, balance those things

Xhafer:

and make an excellent cookie, I have the utmost faith in yours or any listener

Xhafer:

who wants to try it, their skill.

Xhafer:

I believe in you.

Xhafer:

You'll do it.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

I don't know that I could make that cookie.

Xhafer:

Are you making any non baking stuff?

Xhafer:

Like has your dinner rotation

Xhafer:

changed a

Laura:

better at our dinner rotation too.

Laura:

I've kind of hit that point again where my heartburn's gotten really bad.

Xhafer:

I'm sorry.

Laura:

so we're throwing in a lot of like salad kits on the sides of things.

Laura:

Things that aren't going to offend my boy poor esophagus

Xhafer:

One of my favorite dinners is just to make a giant salad.

Laura:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Just like I'll make a giant salad for usually like Beth and I you

Xhafer:

know, and just like, no, no bowls, just one giant bowl, two forks.

Xhafer:

And I don't know if it's like, I will, I know that part of.

Xhafer:

Kind of really deeply enjoys like the economy of dishes,

Xhafer:

Which is something that will come up later in this episode.

Xhafer:

But just, yeah, it's, I don't know, just like, you know, the salad.

Xhafer:

I, I always make my own dressing.

Xhafer:

I don't think I have any salad dressing in my.

Laura:

Dang

Xhafer:

not even ranch for all of you Midwesterners, who are about to gok.

Xhafer:

I've got some barbecue sauce if you want to dip something in something

Laura:

Yeah, for sure.

Xhafer:

It's just, that's just like how I grew up.

Xhafer:

My dad cooked a lot when I was a kid and that was something he always

Xhafer:

prided himself on, was like, I make really good salad dressings.

Xhafer:

And so I got taught a lot about making salad dressing as a kid.

Xhafer:

And it just carries over.

Xhafer:

So I'll usually just like lettuce bed, veggies, fresh grind, some

Xhafer:

salt and pepper couple ivy spices, usually some basil, some oregano.

Xhafer:

And then some extra virgin olive oil and some balsamic vinegar.

Xhafer:

And that's like my standard.

Xhafer:

And I'll occasionally juice half of a lemon and throw that on there

Xhafer:

too.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And it

Xhafer:

just,

Laura:

little acid

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's super basic, but it's very tasty.

Laura:

and probably, you know, pretty healthy too.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I love a good salad with a homemade dressing and like, Pecans and

Laura:

dried cherries and blue cheese.

Laura:

That's one of my

Laura:

favorites.

Laura:

I'm not supposed to be having a lot of the soft cheeses right now, but yeah, you

Laura:

know, it's all about reducing risk, not necessarily eliminating all your risks.

Laura:

So,

Laura:

I'm gonna give myself new cravings that I'll have to buy things for

Laura:

this next coming weekend, so, yep.

Laura:

I'm just, I'm very humble right now.

Laura:

Not a lot of big ones.

Xhafer:

That's, you know, it's fine.

Xhafer:

You don't, it's not always about region for the stars.

Xhafer:

It's about getting through the week sometimes.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

And I think, you know, I got three months to get through.

Laura:

I'm gonna do it.

Laura:

Gonna do it.

Laura:

Great.

Laura:

And then we'll see what's next,

Laura:

But what's next for our episode, Jafa?

Xhafer:

We have season three, episode 12, sick Transit, veer

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Can I tell you something about this title?

Laura:

I don't know if you looked this stuff up already, but I'm interested in Latin.

Laura:

You know, having been a classical singer, we do a lot of singing in Latin.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

And then my husband actually took like several years of Latin

Xhafer:

Oh, that's fun.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Because between the two of us, we have a lot of useful languages under our belt.

Laura:

And I say that very sarcastically, but he told me that Sikh transit

Laura:

veer is actually all Latin,

Laura:

so it's thus passes.

Laura:

The man veer is man in Latin.

Laura:

And this is apparently probably a reference to Sikh transit, Gloria Muni,

Laura:

which is a phrase from Papa Coronations.

Laura:

And it means thus passes the glory of the world.

Laura:

And so in, in the context of capable coronations, at least it means that it's

Laura:

kind of said when the person who's being coronated is, you know, thus your old

Laura:

life is dying and the, the thing, the trappings of the world are dead now and

Laura:

you've moved on to a higher purpose.

Laura:

So I was like, hmm, I really hope that is an intentional reference because.

Laura:

That really fits with the theme of this episode, don't you think?

Xhafer:

Yeah, for sure.

Xhafer:

I read JM S'S notes actually talking about that.

Xhafer:

So it is a hundred percent an intentional reference.

Laura:

yay.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

. We open on CNC in this episode.

Xhafer:

But we see the crew is no longer in the Earth Force uniforms.

Xhafer:

They got snazzy buttoned ups with the B five logo on their arms.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

They're very nineties button-ups.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I'd love one of these.

Laura:

That's the uniform I wanna see at conventions.

Laura:

Y'all

Xhafer:

if I saw one of these at a con, I'm walking out.

Xhafer:

And walking into work on Monday wearing it,

Laura:

totally support that.

Xhafer:

But besides, that's not the only wardrobe change we have in this

Xhafer:

intro as Ivanni is no longer in anything.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

She's having the Naked Dream everybody.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Everyone is speechless and kind of like what is going on as they look at her,

Xhafer:

as she realizes and wakes from her bad dream right before her alarm goes off.

Xhafer:

And this is just the fucking worst.

Laura:

Yeah, it really is.

Xhafer:

happens to me habitually.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

If I have an alarm set, I wake up five to 10 minutes before

Xhafer:

that alarm, and it doesn't matter if I have changed like day to day.

Xhafer:

I could have a seven 30 and eight 30, a nine, whatever, six 30, doesn't matter.

Xhafer:

When my alarm is set, I wake up five to 10 minutes before that alarm every time

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

that would cause me to do a lot of snoozes, which would be bad business.

Laura:

I, we've talked about this before.

Laura:

You don't, you don't have a lot of dreams, right?

Xhafer:

That is correct.

Xhafer:

I do not actively dream per

Xhafer:

se.

Laura:

I remember that

Xhafer:

I, I actually have had probably, I've had more dreams in

Xhafer:

the last three weeks than I probably had in the last form five months,

Laura:

that's very interesting.

Laura:

Have you had this dream?

Xhafer:

No, I've never had this dream.

Laura:

Yeah, I, I've never had this dream either.

Laura:

I've had its, you know, cousin where I have forgotten that I am in a course and

Laura:

it's an 8:00 AM course, you know, I'm in, in college 8:00 AM course I haven't been.

Laura:

At this point I'm failing and there's no way to drop the course.

Laura:

That's my recurring

Xhafer:

that is a nightmare.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I'm having a lot of dreams right now.

Laura:

Jafa.

Laura:

This is a third trimester thing

Xhafer:

That's crazy.

Laura:

like some sort of hormone ramps up and you get a lot of vivid dreams

Laura:

and

Xhafer:

with your brain chemistry.

Xhafer:

Oh man, that sounds, I don't know.

Xhafer:

I'm, I'm kind of low key jealous uh, but given everything else that comes

Xhafer:

with it I'm still willing to pass

Laura:

I think my subconscious does a lot of processing in my sleep and

Laura:

it's just working overtime right now,

Xhafer:

That's fair.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

So we'll get, we'll get through it.

Laura:

But yeah, haven't had this dream, but I'm somebody out there who's

Laura:

listening has had this dream,

Xhafer:

for sure.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's, it's, it's one of the quintessential bad dreams.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Speaking of bad dreams, Fear is uh, on Centara Prime.

Laura:

Huh?

Xhafer:

yes.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Veer is on Centri Prime.

Xhafer:

And Veer gets told to stop taking notes from Lando by the Prime Minister,

Xhafer:

who then tells a really racist uncle joke like it's Thanksgiving and

Xhafer:

you know, grandma decided to have a glass of wine and she's passed out.

Xhafer:

And Uncle Jim knows this is his one and only chance cause no, she's the only one

Xhafer:

who's gonna call him out in his bullshit.

Xhafer:

So he leans in after misgendering your cousin who totally didn't deserve that but

Xhafer:

didn't say anything because Jim will be, Jim is something your parent generation

Xhafer:

has decided decades ago, and now we all just need to get to put up with it.

Xhafer:

And you know what?

Xhafer:

Fuck you, uncle Jim.

Xhafer:

I'd send you home if you weren't halfway through that 30 pack of Bud

Xhafer:

Light, you left on the back porch.

Xhafer:

Even the dog thinks you're a piece of shit, but maybe that's your attitude, or

Xhafer:

maybe it's because you never let her out.

Xhafer:

When you go back to grab another one of those goddamn bud lights, stop drinking.

Xhafer:

You have to head home at some point.

Xhafer:

You know what?

Xhafer:

I'm just gonna call you an Uber.

Xhafer:

No, I won't explain how those work or how to find the thing on the internet.

Xhafer:

You had your chancellor earn computers 30 years ago, and maybe if you had, you

Xhafer:

never would've lost your career in sales.

Xhafer:

But eventually someone got tired of carrying your dead weight and

Xhafer:

I relate to them a lot right now.

Xhafer:

I'm sure your siblings do too.

Xhafer:

So why don't you move those 10 cans of Budd Light from the back

Xhafer:

porch to the front while you wait.

Xhafer:

oh, nevermind.

Xhafer:

The Uber is here.

Xhafer:

Think.

Xhafer:

Fuck, Jim.

Xhafer:

Goodbye forever.

Xhafer:

So veer goes to a room, his room, and it's filled with angry Narn

Laura:

Yeah, I feel like these angry Nas who were the butt of the joke aren't

Laura:

really totally resolved in this episode.

Laura:

I wonder what happened to them.

Xhafer:

I mean, we find the, the premise is that veer is

Xhafer:

smuggling narn off cent to prime.

Xhafer:

Under the guise of sending them to work camp.

Xhafer:

So presumably this is who's waiting for their ticket out right now?

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

they would be in his room does not make any sense to me.

Laura:

yeah, he's doing this in the Royal Palace

Xhafer:

that it's absurd.

Laura:

It's gutsy as hell.

Xhafer:

Oh, it's

Xhafer:

bravado, bravado, personified.

Xhafer:

To do this in the in.

Xhafer:

the centum in the, in the emperor palace.

Laura:

Fantastic.

Laura:

Good for you, veer.

Laura:

And that's our, you know, butt of a joke to theme.

Xhafer:

We come back with Sheridan and Ivanova talking

Xhafer:

about bad dreams over breakfast.

Xhafer:

He tells her it will pass.

Xhafer:

Just all the change as her subconscious being uneasy.

Laura:

Hey, that feels familiar.

Laura:

think he's right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Peter Jurassic goes for the Emmy when fighting an insect.

Xhafer:

After this,

Laura:

Oh my gosh.

Laura:

I love this acting.

Laura:

I love it.

Laura:

He has the Emmy of my heart.

Xhafer:

right?

Xhafer:

He gets it with a sword.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

me tell you from experience, this is very impractical.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

You need something wide and flat, not skinny and flat.

Laura:

Come on man.

Xhafer:

I, I have had a thing where I was trying to get a bug and the only

Xhafer:

thing I had around me was a sword.

Xhafer:

And it is needlessly difficult.

Xhafer:

It is the wrong tool for the job, a hundred

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Someone arrives and asks for him and asks for veer, and he

Xhafer:

gets really creepy Really quick.

Laura:

Yes.

Xhafer:

We see veer arrive at space t s.

Xhafer:

with no one to

Xhafer:

greet

Laura:

Mondo's not there.

Xhafer:

No, I'm just not there.

Xhafer:

He's, he's upset by this,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

His feelings are hurt.

Laura:

They should be.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Your, your buddy always comes to pick you up and he's not there.

Laura:

Before we find out why he's not there, Sheridan, Del and Dalen

Laura:

are talking about recent events.

Laura:

Sheridan kind of tells us that Bevel and five is being.

Laura:

Shunted to the side because of other problems.

Laura:

But you know what, this is a great time for us to get some

Laura:

non earth centric episodes in

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Let's have some other episodes of Babylon five.

Laura:

as they're talking, he asks her out to dinner.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

A dinner date.

Xhafer:

And she accepts.

Xhafer:

Vier makes it to Land's Quarters, and they uh, catch up.

Xhafer:

He just say nothing interesting back home and looks very guilty as he says it.

Laura:

Huh.

Xhafer:

And Orlando's like, oh, well I've got a, a surprise for you.

Xhafer:

It's your wife.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Apparently no one has called Veer to tell him that there are plans in the works.

Xhafer:

His marriage has been arranged and no one thought

Xhafer:

it was important to tell him.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This seems very centara.

Laura:

This seems to track, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We're introduced to Linda, Steve here.

Xhafer:

Viewer confesses that he wants to marry for love , and she's just

Xhafer:

like, oh, oh, you're one of those

Laura:

I think, does she say a radical?

Laura:

I think she does

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

She calls him a radical.

Xhafer:

That's what it

Laura:

and she doesn't even know the half of it.

Laura:

but yeah, he's, he got some ideas from those centara back in, was that season

Laura:

one when we had the young couple?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He, He, saw that as something beautiful.

Xhafer:

Zack comes up to c and c also in his new uniform.

Xhafer:

After this,

Laura:

Mm.

Xhafer:

The, the giant leather shoulder thing running down the

Xhafer:

front, I guess it's supposed to be kind of armory armor esque, perhaps.

Xhafer:

Uh, It looks

Xhafer:

ridiculous.

Laura:

sort of like bulletproof vest, invoking ideas.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I wonder if this jacket really fits better.

Laura:

I wonder how he feels about that.

Xhafer:

We'll find out

Laura:

we know that's important to Zach.

Xhafer:

but he needs to talk to Ivanova . Because there's some nans traveling

Xhafer:

with paperwork from Abraham Lincoln.

Xhafer:

Oli.

Xhafer:

Perfect.

Laura:

I mean, at this point of the centara that we know, I think the only

Laura:

one that could possibly have come up with this name because they would have

Laura:

interest in another racist culture.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Veer, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

But it's also the kind of thing that a Centuri would read and

Xhafer:

probably go, sounds important.

Xhafer:

Never heard of 'em, and move on with their day.

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Laura:

, Yeah.

Xhafer:

Like it's

Xhafer:

it's

Laura:

picked one that no one else is gonna know because they don't

Laura:

care about other culture's history and yeah, he's made it fancy.

Laura:

It sounds important.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

It's so good.

Xhafer:

It's such a good centuri name.

Xhafer:

Fake Centuri name.

Laura:

Yep.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

After this we cut to veer and Linty walking through the gardens, and

Xhafer:

she is laying down some mad game on Veer.

Laura:

This girl is good.

Xhafer:

She knows what she wants and she knows what she needs to say to get it.

Xhafer:

She is there for it.

Xhafer:

And if she wasn't a terrible piece of shit, I would be

Xhafer:

celebrating her for this play here.

Xhafer:

But we do find out she's a terrible piece of shit before the end of the episode.

Xhafer:

So,

Laura:

this, this attitude from a girl is exactly what veer

Laura:

needs for a relationship, right?

Laura:

He needs to be told what to do,

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

He just needs one who's not a giant racist

Xhafer:

He is, he's awkward at first, but eventually falls for her charms.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

After this veer meets with Ivanova who had called cuz she's calling him out

Xhafer:

and he explains his Shindler esque plan.

Laura:

So he's fake to this person who is trying to shuttle Nans off of home world

Laura:

and get them into work camps, which is, you know, better than being dead.

Laura:

Better than being on a presumably bombed out planet with not a lot of resources.

Laura:

He's just trying to get people away.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Sort of an underground railroad, shindler sort of thing.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We don't get all the details yet.

Xhafer:

So Ivanova is not going to press it with Veer, but also isn't a hundred

Xhafer:

percent bought in at this point.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

She's a skeptic.

Laura:

She's a skeptic with the best of them.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

We cut over to Sheridan, who is not a good cook.

Xhafer:

He clearly.

Xhafer:

Has never done dishes in his life.

Xhafer:

He's someone who cooks like they have never cleaned a kitchen.

Xhafer:

I know people like this.

Xhafer:

I'm not gonna name names.

Xhafer:

Uh, Someone listening to this is laughing right now.

Xhafer:

, someone in my personal life who's listening to this podcast is laughing.

Xhafer:

But it is just absurd.

Xhafer:

This kitchen is absolutely destroyed.

Xhafer:

He is more mess than he has kitchen.

Xhafer:

It's literally hanging over the countertops,

Xhafer:

the mess.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This drives me crazy.

Laura:

Like I'm the, I'm trying to assess as I'm going through each

Laura:

step, am I done with this bowl?

Laura:

Can it go in the dishwasher?

Laura:

Am I done with this tool?

Laura:

Am I done with this, this spice?

Laura:

Can I put it away like I'm cleaning as I'm going when I'm cooking

Laura:

and shared and, oh, oh, he's, he's killing.

Xhafer:

His pot pan and utensil economy is miserable,

Laura:

It's bad.

Xhafer:

which is why, like I said, I think the one salad.

Xhafer:

Two forks, one bowl.

Xhafer:

Love it.

Xhafer:

Right?

Xhafer:

Like it's so, it is so perfect when it comes to that pot pan utensil economy.

Xhafer:

And this is just a mess everywhere.

Xhafer:

And I'm like, I'm not gonna claim to be an expert, but I'm pretty good

Xhafer:

at keeping things in one cooking.

Xhafer:

To two when I need to, when I have to cook things separately.

Xhafer:

And then also I do cook a lot of vegetarian and meat

Xhafer:

dishes at the same time.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

So I'll like have the main pot going with like curry or whatever

Xhafer:

I'm doing, and then I'll have like tofu in a small pan and meat in a

Xhafer:

small pan that way can kind of combine them at the end for whoever's eating.

Xhafer:

So like I'm.

Xhafer:

I'm not without fault here, like I'm not strictly a one pan kind of person because

Xhafer:

there is, I understand the logic of that and I know people who cook like that, they

Xhafer:

refuse to cook if it's more than one pan.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

but that's also, like, that is not always the best choice

Xhafer:

from a culinary perspective.

Xhafer:

But this is just wrong

Laura:

I think Sheridan needs to go do a quick internship in the officer's mess

Laura:

because that breakfast that they were getting together in the morning when

Laura:

they were talking about nightmares and stuff, it actually looked pretty decent.

Laura:

So maybe he could get some tips from like a real cook Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's a putts.

Xhafer:

, he made flan with carrots.

Xhafer:

It looked like,

Laura:

He's made a sincere attempt at cooking her cuisine, which is a very

Laura:

sweet thing for someone to try to do,

Laura:

From the look on her face.

Laura:

It's not great

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

She gets, she to uh, look away for a moment so she can use

Xhafer:

her secret watch hot sauce.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

I feel like the scene is playing a little bit into some of those

Laura:

stereotypes that we loved back in the nineties about, you know, oh,

Laura:

men can't cook, women be shopping.

Laura:

Like those stereotypes that showed up a lot.

Laura:

You feel a little bad for poor Dylan having to eat this food, but.

Laura:

She, she chokes it down because she's still very interested in him,

Laura:

despite his lack of culinary skills.

Xhafer:

In the hallway, a narn comes after the murderer and veer

Xhafer:

engages in hand-to-hand combat.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's gotta protect his new woman,

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Sheridan leaves dinner to go to the rescue, which buys security team

Xhafer:

time to get there and m execute the narn in a show of police brutality.

Laura:

Yeah, I mean, I, I think he had raised his weapon and whatever.

Laura:

This is how the show justifies these things.

Laura:

Um, Raised his weapon, was ignoring the commands to put it down.

Laura:

But.

Laura:

, you can't tell me these PPGs don't have a sun setting, right.

Xhafer:

They have to, I would hope,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's how sci-fi works.

Xhafer:

Linda d is taking care of Veer.

Xhafer:

While Sheridan and Ivanova remind us about Narn blood oaths haven't

Xhafer:

heard about them in a little while,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Ivanova warns veer that another narn on the station is likely

Xhafer:

to continue with another attack.

Xhafer:

Veer very awkwardly is like, Hey, commander uh, this scene.

Xhafer:

Oh God.

Xhafer:

So you know, both about being a woman and pleasing a woman.

Xhafer:

And she's just like, stops him mid-sentence and is all like, I have

Xhafer:

to call HR and file a complaint now.

Xhafer:

No, no, actually, no, no.

Xhafer:

Claudia Christian just has to deal with this and the naked

Xhafer:

thing in the same episode.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

really enjoyed filming the scene.

Xhafer:

I read the episode guide and there was a bit of from her talking

Xhafer:

about it and she really enjoyed doing this comedy bit with fear.

Laura:

Well, I'm sure Steven first was hilarious to do this with

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

I mean, it, it's very enjoyable to watch.

Laura:

So I could see why she had fun with it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

So he says we have six, you see, and so I, through his like stammering,

Laura:

do I take it that you start with one

Laura:

in

Xhafer:

It sounds like you start with one testic.

Xhafer:

Cool.

Xhafer:

Is that what they were called?

Laura:

I don't remember

Xhafer:

And work your way up to six,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Uh, She does give some good advice though.

Xhafer:

I will say the advice she gives here is solid enthusiasm.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

. Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Enthusiasm is the most important thing.

Laura:

sure.

Xhafer:

Enthusiasm can take you very far.

Laura:

this is true.

Laura:

This is the truth.

Xhafer:

I would say up until it, it is an an avid substitute for

Xhafer:

skill for 90% of the experie.

Laura:

Presumably both of them don't have a ton of experience.

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

We, we don't know Linda Steve's life.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I got No,

Laura:

she

Laura:

is looking at veer with open eyes.

Laura:

She knows what this man is about.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, they, they are a hedonistic society.

Xhafer:

So I will not, I will not shame

Laura:

no, no, no, no.

Laura:

She seems

Laura:

very young is where I was getting at, but,

Xhafer:

That's

Xhafer:

fair.

Laura:

but she's also looking at Veer and she knows what he is and what he is about

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

She knows what to expect as she's walking into this.

Laura:

I think

Xhafer:

for sure.

Xhafer:

I think you spend five minutes with veer and you know what to expect there.

Xhafer:

But also a sincerity.

Xhafer:

Compassion and humor are also part of ivanna's advice and crucial

Xhafer:

to any relationship, regardless of if it is sexual or not.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

So good advice of Ava?

Laura:

I think veer will be just fine if he will.

Laura:

Just take a few breaths.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Sheridan, Dalen almost kiss.

Xhafer:

I'm gonna grab my action figures and make them

Xhafer:

tap their heads together.

Laura:

I think I said now Kiss.

Laura:

I think I've been doing that a lot.

Laura:

I've seen that this, this show kind of has set up several moments, and if you

Laura:

were watching this in a sequence, you know, every week or something, you would

Laura:

be pushing those action figures together.

Laura:

But this point, yeah.

Xhafer:

gotta sell 'em Somehow.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

and I'm sure there weren't a lot of kids watching Baffle

Xhafer:

on five Buying action figures,

Laura:

If I'd had money.

Xhafer:

Ivanova shows up at the wrong time and interrupts this kiss though

Xhafer:

I feel like this is not the first time this has happened.

Xhafer:

I mean, with Dalen with was shared in Yes.

Xhafer:

But Ivanova has a tendency to get ahold of the captain at the wrong time.

Laura:

I feel that you should not be able to just well the first time she like

Laura:

beamed herself in with the great machine.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

That was a, that, that is an overriding piece of equipment

Laura:

cuz that is an alien machine.

Laura:

But like, I feel like you shouldn't be able to just

Laura:

call your boss's quarters.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And like override him picking up

Xhafer:

is it?

Xhafer:

I mean, it might be Sheridan's fault.

Xhafer:

Maybe he's got like auto answer on or something.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Or there could be, you know, an emergency code where you just override it and show

Laura:

up and she feels like this, warrants that.

Laura:

But I would be having a talk with her about her , her judgment

Xhafer:

for sure.

Laura:

Yeah, yeah,

Xhafer:

Was anyone actively being killed?

Xhafer:

No.

Xhafer:

Just call, I'll still answer

Laura:

Let me pick up exactly

. Xhafer:

But uh, this emergencies, everyone to go to Orlando's

. Xhafer:

quarters because of veer.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

And Ivanova is just lighting a fire because she thinks veer is having all

Xhafer:

of these Narn killed instead of relocated.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Meanwhile, the Narn attacker follows Linday to co.

Laura:

we come back from commercial and we're, we're arguing.

Laura:

all these dead yarns and londo is very unflattering for himself

Laura:

here, and he's very proud of veer for these 2000 dead yarns.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's all like, oh, you did the right.

Xhafer:

Oh, wait a minute.

Xhafer:

You didn't kill them.

Laura:

Yeah, veer.

Laura:

Can't take the pressure he.

Laura:

Really should not have admitted this in front of Londo because you know

Laura:

how Londo feels.

Laura:

But he can't take it.

Laura:

And he blurts out that these Nans aren't dead.

Laura:

I didn't kill them.

Laura:

I disappeared them.

Xhafer:

Saving women and children and elders to carry on the culture and.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He, they're all just dead because Veer faked their deaths

Xhafer:

because no one cares about a dead narn.

Laura:

right.

Xhafer:

Ugh.

Laura:

that still leaves this narn who has been following Linda Disty.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

But we see her meet with Veer first

Xhafer:

in the gardens.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

and she outs herself as the racist piece of shit that she is.

. Laura:

She, uh, takes him to where somehow she subdued this man

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

all on her own.

Laura:

And she's been trained to, to fight nans.

Laura:

We find out she participated in like mass killings of NANS with her father.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Her dad was stationed on Darn.

Xhafer:

And just subdued the local populace.

Xhafer:

This is just fucking horror.

Xhafer:

This is just outright horror.

Xhafer:

Now I gotta ask you about this actress, cuz this entire episode this actress

Xhafer:

has given me and I, I want to be clear that I don't mean any offense to anyone.

Xhafer:

uh, Community theater actress vibes,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I, I see that she's got this very like, big, wide-eyed.

Xhafer:

she's not subtle, right?

Xhafer:

Like the stage acting and TV acting are very different, and

Xhafer:

stage acting is very exaggerated.

Xhafer:

And when you are not inexperienced stage actor, you can overact the overacting and.

Xhafer:

Can be a lot, and it kind of almost gives off a, like childlike

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Like, like you're not feeling the emotions.

Xhafer:

You are a sociopathic six year old who is faking the emotions because

Xhafer:

you, your brain isn't developed enough to do the things yet.

Laura:

I think that sociopathic six year old is like that nails

Laura:

it for the vibe she is giving off

Xhafer:

yeah.

Laura:

This whole time.

Xhafer:

And up until this point in the episode, I'm just

Xhafer:

like, oh, she's a bad actress.

Xhafer:

You know, like, it's fine.

Xhafer:

You know better than I could do for sure.

Xhafer:

But I'm just like, oh, she's just like a community theater actress and

Xhafer:

she's just overacting everything and then this scene hits and I'm just all

Xhafer:

like, oh no, she's a professional.

Xhafer:

This has all been on purpose the entire time.

Xhafer:

It was a choice.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

And we, she just gets this evil monologue, like she's talking

Xhafer:

about, oh, how the fires, when their bodies would burn and stuff,

Xhafer:

and it's just fucking horrible.

Xhafer:

And she says it with this childlike glee.

Xhafer:

She doesn't understand what she's saying, you know, she doesn't understand

Xhafer:

what the nature of these actions, they're just a thing that happens.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

it's all totally normal and fine because they're animals.

Laura:

Like this is what you do with animals, I guess.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

The, this is where her acting comes together and.

Laura:

It becomes coherent.

Laura:

It makes sense.

Laura:

It's

Laura:

horrifying,

Xhafer:

yeah,

Xhafer:

And it's supposed to be

Laura:

indeed.

Xhafer:

When you get Lando covering up Vere's actions and as recalled him to

Xhafer:

Babylon five, he's no longer stationed on.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's being written back into the show

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

The other show got canceled.

Xhafer:

So

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

years back the marriage is postponed.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

. hope.

Xhafer:

And back in C n C Ivanova knowing that Lando never

Xhafer:

found out about Abraham here.

Xhafer:

Has built out the profile a bit and is continuing to use the name

Xhafer:

to sanction paperwork to move narn around in the background.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So I know we, we've talked about, we don't wanna see a lot of direct.

Laura:

Bevel on five original callbacks from the hopeful reboot.

Laura:

Knocking on wood, crossing my fingers.

Laura:

I want this to come back just because I wanna see a better, you know, today's

Laura:

computer compilation of Abraham Olin Coney because it's, you know, it's

Laura:

obviously one of Rondo's like cast photos with a little bit of Sheridan's face.

Laura:

thrown into it, right?

Laura:

But I wanna see what you do with today's computer to create Abraham Olin.

Laura:

Coney

Xhafer:

You know what I would've done if I was, and I don't mean like I would've

Xhafer:

done if I was in the art department.

Xhafer:

I mean like if I was a vva,

Laura:

Uhhuh

Xhafer:

the Mbar like full hair thing would've just

Xhafer:

been straight up on the head.

Xhafer:

So it kind of almost looked like a top hat.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

That would be a nice callback Bring it to the reboot just for us

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

It's so good.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is a nice.

Laura:

Button on the episode that Abraham Olin is not dead, and maybe he

Laura:

can still do some good, somehow.

Laura:

I mean, veer hasn't been totally cut off from all power.

Laura:

He's been stuck back under Orlando's thumb, but we know how thorough

Laura:

Lando is with some of his work,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I think part of the implication too is if Ivan was sending these orders out

Xhafer:

from Babylon five now and Veer is not involved, that they might be like signed

Xhafer:

off from Londo without his knowledge.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I do enjoy that too.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I don't think that any of the command staff would feel so bad about

Laura:

doing this Tolando at this point,

Xhafer:

Nope.

Laura:

especially not after what Ivanova and Sheridan heard him say

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

And then we wrap it all up with Veer trying to talk

Laura:

to Linda, Steve trying to.

Laura:

Say that he believes she can change.

Laura:

He still believes in her, and she believes the same thing about him.

Xhafer:

Mm.

Laura:

And that's how they're gonna leave it.

Laura:

And hopefully we never see Linda Disty again.

Xhafer:

We don't,

Laura:

and we don't Yeah.

Xhafer:

we don't.

Xhafer:

She never shows up again at all.

Xhafer:

Even in the books, the extended done gone forever.

Xhafer:

Veer ends up marrying someone very different

Xhafer:

in the books.

Laura:

Thank goodness.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Jafa, tell me, how did you feel about this episode?

Xhafer:

On a scale of Babylon's one to Babylon's five I, I don't know.

Xhafer:

It's a really good episode.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

It, the, the comedy bits are there and there's not,

Xhafer:

There's not too much of it.

Xhafer:

I feel like a lot of times when we've got a very serious episode, they like

Xhafer:

to throw a little comedy in for some levity, and most of the time the comedy

Xhafer:

feels very off and kind of clashes with what they're trying to do seriously.

Xhafer:

And most of the time I'm not a fan of that.

Xhafer:

I feel like I've said that a number of times when we've rated episodes

Xhafer:

where I feel like it's, if it were two separate episodes, it would be

Xhafer:

better episodes, or if you combined different plots to do different.

Xhafer:

This one I think really comes together though because the the

Xhafer:

comedy stuff is directly pointed at Veer and him being naive.

Xhafer:

I think it plays with the rest of the story in a way that foils

Xhafer:

Lindy's naivety about sentience.

Xhafer:

And it does make for a better overall story than I would normally, like,

Xhafer:

I could very easily see one of our listeners going, oh, well I know

Xhafer:

Fair feels about this one because it's these two things clashing.

Xhafer:

And 99% of the time you were right.

Xhafer:

But I think these ones, this time, it actually compliments each other very well.

Xhafer:

So I'm, I'm gonna give this a four out of five.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I think this is a four out of five for me too.

Xhafer:

It's a strong up.

Xhafer:

We get a lot of really good bit of world building and veer.

Xhafer:

We get to see the narn or not as completely lost as we might

Xhafer:

believe they are, given our limited perspective of them on Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

The comedy bits are fun.

Xhafer:

I could have done without Claudia Christensen having to do the naked

Xhafer:

scene in the beginning of the episode.

Xhafer:

That felt a little weird.

Xhafer:

But she thought it was funny.

Xhafer:

So cool.

Xhafer:

It's not like they, it is something, you know, it, it was very clear that it

Xhafer:

was not something they forced her to do.

Xhafer:

It was something that she thought was funny.

Xhafer:

So

Xhafer:

cool.

Laura:

right.

Laura:

I, yeah, I could do without that too personally, but I think that this is such

Laura:

a beautiful episode, the way it comes together for Veer and I, I am a big sucker

Laura:

for whenever we get like more supporting character focused episodes in general.

Laura:

And Veer is just a doll.

Laura:

He's still, he's a delight and it's nice to see how he's growing because you

Laura:

know, we've had it hinted to that one of you will be Emperor after the other.

Laura:

And you know, the implication is it's going to be veer will

Laura:

be at Emperor after Orlando.

Laura:

And at that point in the series you could be kind of wondering

Laura:

like, how is Veer gonna get to this sort of position of power?

Laura:

How is this meek, you know, bumbling little fool going to become that

Laura:

the, the highest ranked sonari, and now we're getting a shade

Laura:

of that, like we're getting a shade of him coming into his own.

Laura:

He's remembered and taken to heart that conversation he had with

Laura:

Jaar when he tried to apologize and Jaar would not have it.

Xhafer:

Mm.

Laura:

He said dead, dead, dead over and over again.

Laura:

And he's internalized it and he's done something really important with that.

Laura:

And he's built something really impactful on those narn.

Laura:

I, I think it's beautiful.

Laura:

I love how it came together.

Laura:

I love the turn we get when we find out, Linda see is crazy, you know,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

uh, For lack of a better word I, I'm a four out of five on this episode.

Laura:

This is where we've started.

Laura:

We're starting to ramp up and get some really good ones.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well next week we have a divisive episode for the Babybel on Five Community

Laura:

is it?

Laura:

? Do Tell.

Xhafer:

I think most people hate this next episode kind of famously.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

what does your description say from Voodoo?

Xhafer:

I actually got this from HBO O Max still

Xhafer:

cuz I took notes on the 24th before it went off the air.

Laura:

Oh, okay.

Xhafer:

but the, the voodoo descriptions and the H v O

Xhafer:

max descriptions are the same.

Xhafer:

Uh, So we've got Sheridan urges the planetary leaders to ratify

Xhafer:

the peacekeeping Babylon Treaty.

Xhafer:

A mysterious traveler claims to be the legendary King Arthur.

Xhafer:

It's season three, episode 13, a late delivery from Avalon

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

Well, I won't spoil how I feel about it but that sounds

Laura:

like it's going to be a lot.

Laura:

Next time,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

But until then, we would like to thank a handful of people.

Xhafer:

Thank you Jeremy Siegel for our lovely theme music.

Xhafer:

You can find more of Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

Laura:

And thank you to Angry Deck Time Machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork,

Xhafer:

Thanks Aaron, our editor for editing our podcast and

Xhafer:

ensuring that it gets out there without me having to do anything

Xhafer:

besides talk for an hour every day.

Xhafer:

Every once a week.

Xhafer:

Appreciate it.

Xhafer:

Um,

Laura:

usually on time

Xhafer:

And thanks uh, everyone for participating in our community.

Xhafer:

We've got an awesome discord where people are talking most

Xhafer:

days about all kinds of stuff.

Xhafer:

About Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

We have a Twitter that I ignore because I don't like Twitter, and we have a Facebook

Xhafer:

that I don't ignore, but no one uses.

Xhafer:

So

Laura:

But we also have an email if you're

Xhafer:

oh.

Xhafer:

We do have an email.

Xhafer:

I forgot.

Laura:

Well, we'd Love to have some email if you have any

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Send us an email for our next mailbag segment.

Xhafer:

Who are you?

Xhafer:

B five gmail.com.

Xhafer:

We'll see you

Xhafer:

next week.

Xhafer:

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.