Episode 67

full
Published on:

1st Mar 2023

S3E15 - Basically the Scarface of Stims

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura wants to have a nice birthday. On B5 it's everything everywhere all at once as Franklin confronts his addiction , Londo decides to burn it all down, Sheridan looks for a win, and Kosh makes the ultimate sacrifice in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 15: Interludes and Examinations.

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello and welcome to Who Are You, A Babylon five watch cast

Xhafer:

hosted by two former strangers.

Xhafer:

Now, friends who are rewatching a favorite show from their childhood, Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

I'm Jafa.

Laura:

And I'm.

Xhafer:

And today, Laura, I get to ask you, what do you want?

Laura:

Well, it's that time of year again when this podcast airs.

Laura:

I will have just had a birthday.

Xhafer:

Oh, we are several weeks ahead right now,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

so

Laura:

so I will have had a birthday like.

Laura:

the Sunday before this podcast.

Laura:

The before this episode airs.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That's cool.

Xhafer:

Happy birthday then.

Xhafer:

you know, also now, I guess I don't know, time is

Xhafer:

weird in a construct, so

Laura:

It is true.

Laura:

It's true.

Laura:

I'm the kind of person that I like to have a planned for my birthday.

Laura:

Like I like to have some kind of idea of what I.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

in order to feel like fulfilled on the day.

Laura:

If I don't make a plan for myself, I feel kind of like, ugh, I just wasted my day.

Laura:

You know,

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

one day that's about me or sort of in the year.

Laura:

So I've been . Trying to thank to myself, like, what do I want this year?

Laura:

Because, you know, I'm in a third trimester, so birthday is not exactly.

Laura:

an alcohol celebrating kind of day.

Laura:

This time

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

I can't have like a big rager with all my friends or something.

Laura:

Not that I do that anymore, cuz I'm in my thirties

Xhafer:

I do, but that's neither here nor there.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

No.

Laura:

Okay, let me rephrase that.

Laura:

I'm in my thirties with kids

Laura:

also.

Laura:

I don't think that I could take it anymore.

Laura:

I just can't.

Laura:

So I've been trying to come up with things that I want that'll make

Laura:

myself feel fulfilled on that day.

Laura:

I did pick out that I wanna go to one of the really nice steakhouses.

Laura:

In Oklahoma City.

Laura:

There's one in the, the . Fancy new boutique hotel that

Laura:

opened a couple years ago.

Laura:

And I have been to it once before and it is very nice

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

So I definitely want the steakhouse dinner because my birthday

Laura:

falls on the wrong day of the week.

Laura:

We're gonna have to do it the night before my birthday cuz they're not open

Xhafer:

You a strict observer of your birthday?

Xhafer:

Typically?

Laura:

Like, does it have to be like the celebration have to be on birthday?

Xhafer:

if at all possible, like

Xhafer:

obviously the steakhouse is closed, you wanna do the

Xhafer:

steakhouse, so you're moving it.

Laura:

I, I'd say I'm a little flexible with that.

Laura:

I'm not, you know, super, because sometimes birthdays are on Tuesday,

Laura:

man, and you just don't get to do anything really like Cool on

Laura:

Tuesday if you gotta go to work.

Xhafer:

That's fair.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Well, I mean, most people's answer that, that our strict observers are to take

Xhafer:

either the day of their birthday or the day after their birthday off work.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And I'll take the day out off after usually because like we get a free

Laura:

vacation day for our birthdays at my workplace, like a special extra day.

Laura:

You just have to take it in the month of your birthday

Xhafer:

Oh,

Xhafer:

okay.

Laura:

but I'm not like planning a big thing, so I'm like, what

Laura:

am I gonna do on birthday day as well to make myself feel good?

Laura:

So I haven't quite figured that out yet.

Laura:

I'm like, do I need a special cake?

Xhafer:

Mm.

Laura:

Do I need like a special trip?

Laura:

I'm open to suggestions.

Xhafer:

Well, by the time this airs, our audience won't be able to help you

Xhafer:

as your birthday will have already passed.

Laura:

Well, I'm, I'm here with you, so I'm hoping you have something

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I don't, I am not a strict birthday observer,

Xhafer:

nor do I really give a shit about my birthday.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Birthdays were not a big deal in my family growing.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Even when I was a kid it was just like, oh, it's your birthday.

Xhafer:

I have some friends over.

Xhafer:

We'll order pizza or something.

Xhafer:

You

Xhafer:

know, Heads headstones now.

Xhafer:

I mean, I love a theme party.

Xhafer:

That's

Xhafer:

my.

Laura:

Yeah, me too.

Xhafer:

and I did, I, I was known for throwing theme parties.

Xhafer:

I haven't done a lot of them, obviously because of Covid.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

But I

Xhafer:

did one last spring that I'm doing again, right around your birthday,

Laura:

Oh yeah.

Xhafer:

Which you obviously you won't be able to be there.

Xhafer:

Given our

Laura:

too bad.

Xhafer:

But I'm doing a drunk PowerPoint.

Laura:

Oh, we've talked about the drunk PowerPoint parties before.

Laura:

That does sound fun.

Xhafer:

I, I did one . Last year.

Xhafer:

I'm doing another one this year.

Xhafer:

I don't know, birthday stuff.

Xhafer:

Get a nice cake or something.

Xhafer:

I don't like

Xhafer:

cake.

Xhafer:

That's the thing is I'm not really big on sweets, so it's just like

Xhafer:

all of the normal birthday stuff,

Xhafer:

like I'd rather

Xhafer:

just cook than go out most of the time.

Laura:

I gotta find an interesting cake like either to make or

Laura:

that somebody in town makes.

Laura:

I think that would be fun.

Laura:

For birthday day.

Laura:

I think birthdays were a bigger deal for me growing up because I had a few

Laura:

of them get ruined by the weather.

Xhafer:

Ah.

Laura:

Being winter birthday, , like where we were like snowed in

Laura:

and couldn't leave our house.

Laura:

And so then my parents tried to like make it up and make you

Laura:

know, something special out of it.

Xhafer:

I have, I had a series of bad birthdays from 18 until 21

Xhafer:

every year.

Xhafer:

I had a terrible birthday for that four year stretch.

Laura:

That's an awful time to have that

Laura:

when you're like young and cool.

Xhafer:

uh, my 18th birthday I got fired from my job and my girlfriend broke up.

Laura:

Oh boy.

Xhafer:

My 19th birthday was a small national disaster,

Laura:

Oh geez.

Xhafer:

My 20th birthday I spent with a friend in the

Xhafer:

hospital who had gotten sick.

Xhafer:

And then my 21st birthday I spent in the hospital because I drank too much.

Laura:

oh man.

Laura:

Yeah, that's a string of really bad ones.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it all worked out in the end.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

don't know if that's what gave me like a, a need to have a plan and

Xhafer:

make them nice.

Xhafer:

Well, it's

Xhafer:

nice to have a plan.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I have an idea for one this year,

Xhafer:

I'm thinking about renting out a Chucky cheese for my birthday this year

Laura:

Oh yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

and having it be the birthday party.

Xhafer:

And so it's everyone's birth, like everyone is supposed to bring a.

Xhafer:

That

Xhafer:

is like five to $10, right?

Xhafer:

Wrap it up.

Xhafer:

We're gonna throw 'em all in a pile and we take turns throughout the

Xhafer:

whole party where it is your birthday.

Laura:

Oh, that's cute.

Xhafer:

so we'll like, oh, it will pull a name outta that.

Xhafer:

Hey, it's this person's birthday.

Xhafer:

Everyone will sing you Happy birthday.

Xhafer:

And we'll go to the pile of presents and pull you one out.

Laura:

Oh, that's . Cute.

Laura:

That's a good idea.

Laura:

I

Laura:

like that.

Xhafer:

And just have a bunch of 30 year olds with no kids.

Xhafer:

Take over at Chuck E.

Xhafer:

Cheese.

Laura:

Do it, my man.

Xhafer:

I have to find out if they serve beer first.

Xhafer:

Find a Chucky cheese

Xhafer:

with a liquor

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

Good luck.

Xhafer:

Who else needs some good luck or is a couple of characters?

Xhafer:

In this week's episode, we've

Laura:

Oh my gosh,

Xhafer:

season three, episode 15, interludes and Examinations.

Xhafer:

Oh, by the way LON five is gonna be free on Roku channel and Tobi,

Laura:

that's what I heard.

Xhafer:

Supported by ads.

Laura:

Which, I mean, we used to watch Babylon five with ads, so

Laura:

no big deal.

Xhafer:

But yeah we open on Ivanova giving a diary entry in the aftermath

Xhafer:

of the shadows, attacking the pari.

Xhafer:

Uh, We see Mr.

Xhafer:

Morden bribe his way on the station.

Xhafer:

We see Franklin do some space.

Xhafer:

We get a little bit with Lando and Veer in this passage uh, where Alondo

Xhafer:

tests veer with grunting a giant room and filling it with flowers for Aira,

Xhafer:

who is finally returning to him.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Remember Aira?

Laura:

It's been a minute.

Xhafer:

It's been a minute, and I don't know why she's coming back, but.

Xhafer:

The,

Xhafer:

that whole, that whole situation is so fucked.

Laura:

It's a little squeaky

Laura:

, even if she is a free woman.

Laura:

Now I don't, I don't know what she wants.

Laura:

Why?

Laura:

Why?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

I don't know.

Laura:

We'll, we'll see.

Laura:

I

Laura:

guess sort of, Yeah, if, if you felt like the pace of this Ivanova exposition

Laura:

was kind of a lot of things, this episode is kind of a lot of things.

Xhafer:

for sure.

Xhafer:

This episode is a ton of things and honestly, I'm kind of low-key,

Xhafer:

really worried about the show because I said that last episode.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

And then our next episode is the two-parter, and that

Xhafer:

one's paced pretty well, but we're coming up on season four

Xhafer:

here, which is notoriously ridiculous with its plot pacing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

For reasons we'll talk about when we hit season four, and I'm

Xhafer:

sure we've talked about before, they didn't think they were gonna get their

Xhafer:

fifth season, so they'd compress two

Xhafer:

seasons into one.

Xhafer:

But I'm really, this wouldn't have been a concern at this.

Xhafer:

They're not

Xhafer:

getting the fifth season.

Xhafer:

I don't think this was on the radar at all.

Xhafer:

So it's just very worrying to me

Laura:

It's

Laura:

a lot crammed in and we don't usually pull this tactic, I think, of having

Laura:

somebody like voice over a diary entry that goes over a lot of things.

Laura:

This show doesn't do that a lot.

Laura:

So yeah, but the, I think the most concerning thing that comes up in

Laura:

this diary entry is our watching Mr.

Laura:

Morton

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

skulking about the station.

Laura:

He bribes his way on, he gets into an empty.

Laura:

and some shadows materialize around him, and we go to theme.

Xhafer:

When we come back from theme Sheridan, his meeting with

Xhafer:

the Bekri and the guy ambassadors,

Laura:

Mm.

Laura:

Have we seen these guys before?

Xhafer:

I dunno if we've seen the guy before.

Xhafer:

We've

Xhafer:

definitely

Laura:

Maybe.

Laura:

Maybe.

Laura:

in a background

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

of like the league.

Xhafer:

If, we have, I've probably brought it up already, but the Guyer

Xhafer:

named for Neil Gaiman who is a friend.

Xhafer:

Of uh, Jay McCrosky.

Xhafer:

He wrote, he does write an episode in season five, and then also they've got

Xhafer:

the Sandman Mask from the Sandman Comics.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's why it looks familiar.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Sheridan's trying to get them to work together as they are neighbors.

Xhafer:

But the game refused to help until the alliance can demonstrate it

Xhafer:

has power equal to the shadows.

Laura:

Yeah, we don't wanna get involved if you can't back us up.

Xhafer:

Cut over to Med Lab where Franklin argues with a very particularly named Dr.

Xhafer:

Lillian Hobbs.

Xhafer:

They kind of go out of their way to say her name a bunch, did you catch this?

Laura:

I didn't, I,

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

They're like Dr.

Xhafer:

Hobbs, Hobbs, Lillian Hobbs, Dr.

Xhafer:

Hobbs like

Xhafer:

way more than you do for a normal bit character.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

a very specific reason.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Lilian Hobbs is a fan of the show who won a

Xhafer:

charity auction to have a character on the show named after her at the Wolf 3

Xhafer:

95 convention in Manchester in 1995.

Laura:

Oh, that's really fun and cute and I like

Xhafer:

that's why they say her name a ton.

Laura:

Gotcha, gotcha.

Laura:

It didn't strike me like as what the hell's going on, you know?

Laura:

But I think that's super cute and I wish that shows still did that

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

Can you imagine if Discovery or something did that and have

Xhafer:

a character named after you

Xhafer:

charity auction?

Xhafer:

He probably

Laura:

make so much money.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

These are the ideas guys.

Laura:

Keep using them.

Xhafer:

Anyways uh, Franklin is losing it and

Xhafer:

patience.

Xhafer:

He's just yelling this whole time.

Xhafer:

He.

Xhafer:

Clearly lost his shit.

Laura:

Yeah, he definitely said.

Laura:

nine B p s

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

on that patient he was working with and then tries to backpedal and

Laura:

say, he said 13 and is like, nah.

Laura:

Bra

Xhafer:

Nope.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Not a good look.

Laura:

This is the worst look from any boss, right?

Xhafer:

for.

Xhafer:

The I was right.

Xhafer:

You were wrong.

Xhafer:

Even though I was wrong, and now I'm blaming you for me being wrong.

Xhafer:

The worst look.

Laura:

And not a , not a thing we could really do anymore.

Laura:

Cuz there's so many ways you can like track somebody on

Laura:

that.

Laura:

So many receipts you can bring to the conversation

Xhafer:

It's why you save your emails.

Laura:

Exactly.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Cya uh, we flash back to Lando and Aira and Mitch McConnell

Xhafer:

when Veer interrupts prompting Lando to go to Aira suite.

Xhafer:

He's interrupted by Morden, though, who's

Xhafer:

pissed.

Xhafer:

Refa isn't returning his tax, so he does what every terrible

Xhafer:

man abusing power does about it.

Xhafer:

Complaint against a mono color background.

Laura:

I think one of the interesting things about this conversation is that

Laura:

Lando can, he can hear these shadows now.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

We hear them in the background, and he definitely reacts

Laura:

to this like, you know, the,

Laura:

the little shadow noise.

Xhafer:

He is

Xhafer:

aware.

Laura:

he's aware not aware enough to not just really step in it though.

Laura:

So Mor threatens the home world, which of course Lando has to puff up

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

and uh, show, show off a little bit.

Laura:

And he tells Morton that You can't hurt me.

Laura:

You've, I have nothing left.

Laura:

Basically.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

As the lady that he

Xhafer:

The

Xhafer:

one thing you actually care about,

Laura:

the one lady that he says he is ever loved, is on her way to the station.

Laura:

What a, what A boneheaded move.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Garabaldi goes to Franklin's quarters after this to call

Xhafer:

him out on his behavior,

Xhafer:

and Franklin is an as to his friend who totally doesn't deserve it.

Xhafer:

Just this once.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Like I wrote down in my notes, Gar Baldy is actually right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Broken clock.

Laura:

not a phrase I write often.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So yeah, he gave all these, you know, trying to look out for his friend

Xhafer:

and it's just like, Hey, like I can do this the easy way or the hard way.

Xhafer:

Please, let's do this the easy way and talk about your addiction

Xhafer:

to stems.

Xhafer:

And he's all like, fuck you.

Xhafer:

I'm not addicted to stems.

Xhafer:

I do what I want.

Xhafer:

Get outta my room.

Xhafer:

Fuck you.

Xhafer:

You care about these like, I tried.

Laura:

this is the one thing Garabaldi actually really knows really well, is

Laura:

how to talk to someone with a, a problem.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's it's experience.

Laura:

So yeah,

Laura:

We see Dalen go to meet with Sheridan in the war room,

Laura:

and they're talking about the whole behavior of the shadows.

Xhafer:

Their

Laura:

is some erratic war.

Laura:

Yeah,

Laura:

but it's just like 1000 years ago, apparently, according to Menari records.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The shadows, just kind of doing stuff attacking very randomly things that

Xhafer:

don't necessarily feel strategic, just kind of keeping everyone on their toes.

Laura:

Sheridan's very frustrated because you can't herd the cats to all

Laura:

respond together and be a cohesive force.

Laura:

I really liked his phrase that it's like stacking marbles in a corner.

Laura:

Cause I was like, I have felt this just different projects

Laura:

at different times of my life.

Laura:

Stacking marbles in a corner.

Laura:

I'm like, yeah, that's really real.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

The big question outta all this is what do the shadows actually want?

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

That's a thing that they can't answer right now, and

Xhafer:

Sheridan needs to know to be able to.

Xhafer:

Be able to predict, be able to fight the enemy,

Xhafer:

you

Xhafer:

need to know what

Laura:

interesting that the shadows ask everyone, what do you want?

Laura:

And now we are trying to figure out what do they want?

Xhafer:

it's almost like that's on purpose.

Laura:

Yeah, so Dylan is very, very succinct and suggests

Laura:

that we just need a win.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

a w you know how we get there if that's up to you.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Get that w everyone turns around.

Xhafer:

Garibaldi meets with Dr.

Xhafer:

Hobbs to bring her in on his investigation.

Xhafer:

She refuses to help him through back channels.

Xhafer:

Aab

Laura:

Yeah, it's gotta be formal.

Xhafer:

Franklin does see Hobbs and Garibaldi talking though.

Xhafer:

And it's

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

The music here.

Laura:

Oh my gosh.

Laura:

It's just like, you know, you know when you hear the music

Laura:

that he's around the corner

Laura:

. Xhafer: Yeah.

Laura:

It's a good thing that paranoia isn't a known side effect of Space Coke.

Laura:

Otherwise, this could be a real problem for Franklin.

Laura:

Sure, sure.

Xhafer:

Like what's he doing there?

Xhafer:

Like he's supposed to be going from his quarters to med lab

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's in his whole doctor

Xhafer:

and he's just Like

Xhafer:

walking through the Zocalo like.

Xhafer:

That does not make sense to me.

Xhafer:

That is not

Xhafer:

how the station has ever been presented as being laid out.

Laura:

Yeah, whenever Franklin is in some sort of commercial space,

Laura:

he's in his, you know, uniform, not his doctor, like scrubs,

Laura:

so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

Also in the Zocalo is veer.

Laura:

He is trying to arrange some of the nice things that Lando

Laura:

wants to fill a deer's room

Laura:

with, you know,

Xhafer:

Like a

Xhafer:

case of wine and

Xhafer:

four dozen space roses and

Laura:

Lingerie and

Laura:

outfits.

Xhafer:

uh,

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

Well they're unmentionables quite literally for fear.

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

. We know about poor vire.

Xhafer:

unable to mention them.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

. Yeah.

Laura:

So we get a good laugh at his expense, but then he spots Mr.

Laura:

Morden on his way out and tries to dodge unsuccessfully.

Xhafer:

This is so good because Morton's like, what do you want?

Xhafer:

Is there anything I can help you with?

Xhafer:

And veer is just like short of dying.

Xhafer:

No.

Xhafer:

Fuck off, It's so good.

Laura:

Yeah, I, I love that Veer is not subtle with the way he deals with Mr.

Laura:

Morton.

Laura:

Unfortunately, Mr.

Laura:

Morton has kind of observed who he was talking to and worms his way.

Laura:

Into a conversation with that man and finds out that Maari is

Laura:

preparing for someone very special.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

All this lingerie and wine and

Laura:

Space

Xhafer:

space roses, like there's something going on.

Xhafer:

Just does a straight up Mr.

Xhafer:

Burns cackle to commercial

Xhafer:

Gear up all these strolls into Med Lab after hours, but stops himself from

Xhafer:

looking up the blood work and running the tests right as Franklin walks in.

Laura:

He leaves the door open.

Laura:

Did you notice this?

Xhafer:

Weird choice.

Xhafer:

Also Wise Med Lab closed, like

Xhafer:

it's an emergency facility.

Xhafer:

I would expect Franklin to not be there every waking hour, but I would

Xhafer:

not expect it to be.

Xhafer:

Shut down.

Xhafer:

Like is there no patience there?

Xhafer:

Like what is

Xhafer:

going on?

Laura:

And when you're, whenever I'm looking up things that

Laura:

I'm not supposed to know,

Laura:

I uh, I always leave the door open so someone can come and talk to me about it.

Xhafer:

Totally.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Well, you know, we, we get to see Franklin, observe him.

Laura:

Make the choice not to look it up.

Laura:

Yeah, but at this point, Franklin has run his own tests,

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

He knows Franklin has been confronted with the hard truth.

Xhafer:

He's basically the Scarface of stems.

Xhafer:

Just a uh, his silver plate is so covered in Space Coke.

Xhafer:

He can't see his own reflection.

Xhafer:

It's bad.

Laura:

Yeah, he's, he's having an awakening here to his situation.

Xhafer:

So I really like this scene and I really hate this scene.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

Do share.

Xhafer:

I really like the, this scene for Frankel's, like I ran the test.

Xhafer:

You know, I have been this principled dude.

Xhafer:

These numbers don't lie.

Xhafer:

I

Xhafer:

know that I have a problem.

Xhafer:

I can't deny that anymore.

Xhafer:

Good.

Xhafer:

All the stuff with Garabaldi looking and then deciding to stop.

Xhafer:

Good.

Xhafer:

I like all of it.

Xhafer:

Med Lab being closed, fucking weird.

Xhafer:

And if Franklin has decided at this point that he knows he has an

Xhafer:

addiction and he's going to resign as he does at the end of this episode,

Xhafer:

what the fuck is he coming into Closed med lab.

Xhafer:

What is the circumstance for him to go check on Garabaldi in Med Lab right now?

Xhafer:

That makes any sense.

Xhafer:

Short of, I guess he could have gotten notified someone

Xhafer:

went into med Lab, but that

Xhafer:

seems very ungar like Garabaldi would not let that happen, I would

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Maybe he's just trailing Garibaldi because he, he has got, as you said, perhaps

Laura:

he is having a paranoia side effect.

Laura:

And so he was just, you know, 10 steps behind

Xhafer:

maybe.

Xhafer:

Uh, that makes

Laura:

and ready to, ready to talk to him.

Laura:

That's, that's some head cannon to put on it.

Xhafer:

Head Canada accepted.

Xhafer:

I appreciate that explanation.

Xhafer:

That makes it make more sense to me.

Laura:

But we see Sheridan now going to Kosh.

Laura:

We haven't seen Kosh in a while, except for like a second

Laura:

in late delivery from Avalon.

Xhafer:

And Kash is uh, refusing to help Sheridan here.

Laura:

This is a great, great rant.

Laura:

About, it's great

Xhafer:

Sheridan loses it on Kash,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

and just starts yelling at him.

Xhafer:

He's all like, you know, uses words you'd use to describe children, you

Xhafer:

know, like you're being petulant.

Xhafer:

He's like, I don't fucking care.

Xhafer:

You know, and then Kosh kind of like activates a little bit

Xhafer:

and we

Laura:

we

Laura:

get an energy

Xhafer:

C.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it is a non localized phenomenon.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

remember where the last time we heard non localized phenomenon was

Laura:

I mean, they're familiar words, but I don't remember when I heard them last.

Xhafer:

in Soul Hunter?

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

the soul got busted out of the like little soul prison gem thing,

Laura:

Uh huh.

Xhafer:

that was the last time we've heard someone say non localized phenomenon.

Laura:

Weird.

Xhafer:

I thought that was very interesting.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That's something that j m s called out too.

Xhafer:

I read that in notes.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Yeah, I thought that was really cool.

Xhafer:

Sheridan lays it in demanding to know how many need to die

Xhafer:

before the vs get involved.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

The answer's one more just not the one you were expecting.

Xhafer:

Kosh finally caves, but notes the price.

Xhafer:

They won't be there to help Sheridan when he goes to Zha Doom and Sheridan's all,

Xhafer:

like you said, I was going to die if I went there anyways.

Xhafer:

And he's just like, well, now

Laura:

Yeah, you will now.

Laura:

Idiot.

Laura:

maybe I could have

Xhafer:

before

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Sheridan's like, fine, be rude about it later and

Xhafer:

don't help me in Zaha Doom.

Xhafer:

Like, fuck off, like this is worth it.

Xhafer:

And he's all like, you don't understand, but you're gonna.

Laura:

Yeah, I guess we'll get there eventually.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And then Dalen brings the leak to the war room.

Xhafer:

As a lon fleet rolls up and attacks the shadows who are attacking the be.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

They really uh, kind of mop the floor

Laura:

with these guys.

Xhafer:

there's like two shadow ships and the WANs show up with like 15 of

Xhafer:

Kashas ship and a couple big guys, and

Xhafer:

one really big guy.

Xhafer:

So I think they, they knew they weren't playing.

Laura:

I like that there are different colors too.

Laura:

You know, we, we saw Kasha ship before and it was kind of a very bright neon green,

Laura:

or it had some bright neon green in it.

Laura:

And it, it's very modeled, right.

Laura:

And I, you know, they, as the volans come out, there's some brown and

Laura:

there's some green and it's like,

Xhafer:

There's one

Xhafer:

that's bright

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

It's, it's more dynamic.

Laura:

Whereas, you know, all the shadow.

Laura:

Obviously are supposed to be creepy and scary and they're all

Laura:

kind of black with that gray.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

But we've got a little more diversity of types of ships.

Laura:

It makes them feel more alive than manufactured.

Xhafer:

over at Space tsa, Lando and Veer are waiting for Aira,

Xhafer:

but she hasn't left the ship yet.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Dr.

Xhafer:

Hobbs is with the medical staff removing a body,

Xhafer:

and Lando sees them and finds Aira is dead.

Laura:

She makes it off in the body bag.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

He immediately concludes that this is refa.

Xhafer:

Despite it obviously being Morden,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

You know,

Laura:

Yeah, he, he's remembering the poison incident and

Laura:

says, check her for poison,

Laura:

which, come on.

Laura:

He did say that like, poison was the centara drug of choice.

Laura:

So couldn't it be literally anybody if it was poison

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, he, he decides it's refa without investigating.

Xhafer:

I think that's

Xhafer:

that, I mean, that's important.

Xhafer:

Like that's, that's a choice that Lando made.

Xhafer:

Is he?

Xhafer:

He said it wasfa before he even knew it was poison.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Because it's so obviously morden if you pay just a little

Xhafer:

bit of attention and it's

Xhafer:

supposed to be,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

But Linda's not paying attention.

Xhafer:

He's, he's swept up in the.

Laura:

Yeah, he's really distraught.

Laura:

We see Veer try to go and embrace him.

Laura:

You know, veer is a great friend.

Laura:

Wado hasn't always been a great friend to him but he still goes to try to

Laura:

give the man a hug and he just, la just turns away and sobs in a corner.

Laura:

I thought that was really beautiful.

Laura:

It said a lot about the two characters to me.

Xhafer:

The Volans beat the shadows and leave.

Xhafer:

The league is now ready to join the war together

Xhafer:

. Laura: Sheridan thinks about

Xhafer:

but chooses to go to sleep and intercut cuz this is again, one of

Xhafer:

those scenes where we're having kind of voiceover and a lot of intercut.

Xhafer:

We also see Mr.

Xhafer:

Morden paying somebody off.

Xhafer:

yeah,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We see a bit with Morden and uh, Eventually he starts

Xhafer:

to make a movie on Kosh.

Xhafer:

We see him go into uh, the green sector and put the mask on and everything.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

And in his sleep, Kosh comes to Sheridan under the visage of his father.

Xhafer:

And this is Wall Kosh is being attacked.

Laura:

yeah

Xhafer:

Kosh really likes and showing up as people's dads

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

It's almost a little patronizing.

Laura:

Little paternal

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

Wonder if that says anything about anything?

Laura:

I don't know.

Xhafer:

little bit.

Xhafer:

Kasha, Sheridan's father apologizes to him.

Xhafer:

Sheridan was right.

Xhafer:

He was afraid, you know he'd gotten so used to living.

Xhafer:

He had lived so long that the thought of not living Had grown terrifying to him.

Xhafer:

And so he knew this was gonna happen the second the four ones opened up

Xhafer:

and was trying to postpone it, but it

Xhafer:

needed to happen.

Xhafer:

He apologizes for not being a better mentor too.

Xhafer:

This is one of the parts of like the hero's journey.

Xhafer:

The mentor always has to die.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is a big trope.

Laura:

Sure.

Xhafer:

You know, without the mentor dying, the hero can never fully grow

Xhafer:

into the person they're supposed to be, cuz otherwise the mentor would

Xhafer:

do the heroic thing nine times out of

Xhafer:

10.

Laura:

Right,

Laura:

I, I'm in the way.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

But what makes this interesting more so than not, is the mentor isn't

Xhafer:

even close to being done with Sheridan's.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

You know,

Xhafer:

most of the time it's like, okay, well in Star Wars is probably one of the most

Xhafer:

prominent examples in current pop culture.

Xhafer:

And Luke Skywalker OB one gets killed way too early to be able to train Luke.

Xhafer:

So

Xhafer:

then, you know, O one gets replaced by Yoda, he finds another mentor, and then

Xhafer:

we'll see what happens with Sheridan going forward with his lack of this figure to

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Is he gonna get a Yoda now that he's lost his OB

Xhafer:

So spoilers but we'll talk about it after the credits maybe,

Xhafer:

or something at the end after we'll talk about it a little bit later.

Xhafer:

Well, after the

Xhafer:

next episode preview, we can talk a little spoilers about it.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Xhafer:

So you don't have to worry about it with right now, listener.

Xhafer:

But yeah.

Xhafer:

Kasha killed a wave of energy runs over the station when he.

Xhafer:

And Sheridan wakes from his dream knowing Kasha has been killed,

Laura:

Yeah, it's really intense.

Xhafer:

his kashi's wrecked helmet sits on Sheridan's desk.

Xhafer:

In the next scene,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And.

Laura:

Better.

Laura:

Better put an eBay alert out

Xhafer:

right

Laura:

Yeah, Garibaldis on the case.

Laura:

He's brought the helmet.

Laura:

Um, So good luck,

Xhafer:

yeah.

Laura:

We'll see if we get anything out of this, but Dylan is also there.

Laura:

She expresses that the volans want to keep this quiet.

Laura:

They don't want anyone to know.

Laura:

Something happened to Kosh at.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

They just want his stuff put on his ship and his ship will do its thing.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

It'd be normal for Kosh to be gone for weeks at a time anyways.

Laura:

Yeah, yeah,

Xhafer:

It's not like anyone's seen his face, so they'll just send a replacement.

Laura:

yeah.

Xhafer:

We'll talk about that for a minute too,

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

because the language here makes me think something happens.

Xhafer:

It doesn't, and I get upset about it.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

We also have londo going to talk to

Laura:

Morden.

Laura:

So Morden also plants the seeds that, oh, that, that was refa

Laura:

that had to be refa.

Xhafer:

Yeah, REFA

Xhafer:

was totally asking about poison.

Xhafer:

and Aira.

Xhafer:

That's weird.

Laura:

This is just so transparent.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Well, it's supposed to be,

Xhafer:

you know, Lando is like, fuck it, fuck it.

Xhafer:

Shadows.

Xhafer:

We can work again.

Xhafer:

Let the galaxy burn,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

which was an interesting choice of words because if you remember back

Xhafer:

to an Emperor, Turin was on the station,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

. Sure.

Xhafer:

he asked Kosh how this was all going to end.

Xhafer:

And Kosh said in fire.

Laura:

Oh my gosh.

Laura:

He did

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Oh, that makes it even more sad.

Xhafer:

Also, prophecy Watch, we said we were gonna bring

Xhafer:

up stuff that could possibly.

Xhafer:

When it were first, when Yolanda's prophecies, it could be a

Xhafer:

thing.

Xhafer:

One of those was Don't kill He was already dead.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Right?

Xhafer:

Refa is part one.

Xhafer:

Poisoned.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

so this could possibly be about Refa now because he's already dead.

Xhafer:

He's already, he's already got part one of the poison, right.

Xhafer:

Don't kill he

Laura:

Whenever part two

Xhafer:

dead.

Xhafer:

So maybe Rondo's uh, decision here that he refa needs to go, is his second

Xhafer:

chance at not fulfilling that prophecy,

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

Yeah, I, when we watched this scene and, and finished it, My husband turns

Laura:

to me and says, is he really that dumb?

Xhafer:

Yes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's that dumb

Laura:

This is the downfalls of not doing a lot of critical thought

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

for examination.

Laura:

So Franklin goes and confesses everything to Sheridan.

Laura:

I think Sheridan at this point had no clue.

Laura:

Sheridan doesn't realize that anything is going on with Franklin,

Xhafer:

Sheridan is not.

Xhafer:

Sheridan is either super, super micromanage or he

Xhafer:

doesn't know what's going on.

Xhafer:

He's,

Xhafer:

he's proven that,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So even when he's like taken handed, delegated stuff,

Xhafer:

he's like, oh, what happened with that from delegated it?

Xhafer:

So he has no idea what goes on in me lab.

Xhafer:

A hundred percent promise.

Laura:

Right, right.

Laura:

He's like, that's doctor stuff.

Laura:

. This is doctors

Laura:

do the

Xhafer:

pew, pew

Laura:

Exactly.

Laura:

He is a, has a very puzzled lick on his face as Franklin resigns

Laura:

in order to deal with this

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Space coke.

Xhafer:

like the cola.

Xhafer:

I don't understand.

Xhafer:

Just drink less coffee.

Xhafer:

You'll be fine.

Xhafer:

No.

Xhafer:

Oh, okay.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

. Uh, We see cautious ship wake itself up

Laura:

and it leaves presumably to grieve or maybe fly itself into the sun.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it's gonna fly itself into the sun.

Xhafer:

But before the uh, as it's on its way out, the maintenance team looks on

Xhafer:

and the skin on Kashas ship changed to say deuces bitches and just flies out.

Laura:

What a way to go,

Laura:

Well, what do you say to this episode?

Laura:

Is it deuces bitches?

Xhafer:

I really like this episode.

Xhafer:

This is a really good episode.

Xhafer:

It is faster paced but unlike.

Xhafer:

Some of the like, I feel like the times I don't like the really fast-paced

Xhafer:

episodes is when they're trying to do things that are conflicting

Xhafer:

either thematically or in the plot.

Xhafer:

Everything here lines up really well.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I mean, it, it is very fast.

Laura:

I think I'm flip flopping with you.

Laura:

Are you?

Laura:

How do you, how do you rate it?

Xhafer:

I would put it at a four out of five.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I I can give

Laura:

it a

Xhafer:

spoiled in the streaming era of television.

Xhafer:

Because I think this would've been a like 55 minute episode

Xhafer:

or something instead of the strict 45 to air for TV with commercials.

Laura:

Sure.

Xhafer:

And I think this episode would be better for that.

Xhafer:

I don't think it needs a part two, but it's a little bit of

Xhafer:

breathing room would've been nice.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

But overall solid.

Laura:

One thing I read about this episode was that there was actually

Laura:

a scene that was cut for time,

Laura:

That was a ranger kind of picks up Morden's tail

Laura:

and tries to follow him and gets murdered by the

Laura:

shadows.

Laura:

And I'm like, man, I really miss that.

Laura:

Like, I feel like that would've been a useful scene.

Laura:

, I understand why it got cut compared to, you know, e everything was so important.

Laura:

But it's one of those things where it's, if we'd had that extra 10

Laura:

minutes, like you just said, we could have had a few more scenes, we could

Laura:

have slowed a couple of things down.

Laura:

And I think I really would've benefited from those.

Xhafer:

agreed.

Laura:

So, yeah, it, it's a four for me.

Laura:

I'll, I'll keep it up there in the high.

Xhafer:

Mm.

Laura:

but I, I do wish it could have been slowed down a little bit

Laura:

or we could have spaced a little bit

Xhafer:

So speaking of Babble on four, which is what we

Xhafer:

both just rated this episode

Laura:

Hey.

Xhafer:

next week, season three, episode 16, war Without.

Xhafer:

End Part one, Sinclair returns to accompany Sheridan on a life-threatening

Xhafer:

mission involving Babylon four.

Xhafer:

We're here.

Laura:

Yay,

Xhafer:

We're at, we're at part two of the three parter from season one.

Xhafer:

Mm.

Xhafer:

I love these episodes.

Laura:

Me too.

Laura:

. I'm a sucker for Babylon four.

Laura:

I'm a sucker for Z Atheros.

Laura:

I'm a sucker for Sinclair coming back.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

,it's so good.

Xhafer:

I can't wait.

Xhafer:

But we're gonna have to,

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

so At this point, listener, we're gonna move to Spoiler Town conversations

Xhafer:

about some of the stuff from this episode.

Xhafer:

Uh, You're not missing anything, so if you want to avoid spoilers, you already

Xhafer:

know who we're gonna thank because you've listened to more than one episode.

Xhafer:

This, this podcast.

Xhafer:

So we're going to spoiler town, we'll say our thank yous.

Xhafer:

All right, so one Prophecy watch, obviously, especially after we

Xhafer:

talked about it a bit on the Discord.

Xhafer:

This has gotta.

Xhafer:

Sheridan is he who is already dead.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

just, it's, it's super obvious and also it ties into the prophecy as

Xhafer:

we'll see in the next two episodes.

Xhafer:

We don't know that he's dead at that point, but seeing what will happen

Xhafer:

with Lando in the flash forward bits we get a hundred percent.

Xhafer:

But it is fun to call out other stuff when it happens.

Xhafer:

Thing two.

Xhafer:

Kashas replacement.

Xhafer:

Why is he in

Xhafer:

a different encounter suit them?

Xhafer:

Don't even

Xhafer:

attempt

Xhafer:

to make him look the same.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I mean, if you're just a random person observing a Kosh, you could

Laura:

think, oh, he got a new suit.

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

know,

Xhafer:

I don't know.

Xhafer:

It's just like, why go outta your way to make it clearly a physically different

Xhafer:

character when the whole point is that you're trying to beat the same person?

Xhafer:

Doesn't make sense.

Laura:

We gotta upgrade though.

Laura:

You know, it's mid-season and we've worked on on some sets

Laura:

and we worked on some costumes.

Laura:

We gotta upgrade some stuff.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Thank you Jeremy Segel for our lovely theme music.

Xhafer:

You can find more of Jeremy's work at Jeremy Segel 40 two.band cam.com.

Laura:

And thank you to Angry Duck Time machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

Aaron, thank you for editing our podcast.

Xhafer:

We really appreciate all the work you put into it.

Xhafer:

Thank you so.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

And thank you listener for being here.

Laura:

And if you wanna reach out to us, you can use our email at,

Laura:

who are you, b five gmail.com.

Laura:

Or you can find us on Facebook.

Laura:

We have a nice discord,

Xhafer:

Yeah,

Laura:

to have you there.

Xhafer:

for sure.

Xhafer:

If you feel so inclined, I hear five star reviews help the podcast get noticed, so

Xhafer:

that's

Xhafer:

cool.

Xhafer:

so that'd be nice.

Xhafer:

Thank you.

Xhafer:

See you next week

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.