Episode 72

full
Published on:

5th Apr 2023

S3E20 - Shenanigans Potential

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer play plot poker. Meanwhile, Londo plots an end to his enemies and Sheridan gets welcomed to the resistance in Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 20: And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place.

Transcript
Xhafer:

welcome to, who Are You?

Xhafer:

A Babylon five watch cast hosted by two former strangers.

Xhafer:

Now, friends who have gotten to know each other while rewatching a

Xhafer:

favorite show from their childhood.

Xhafer:

Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

I'm Jafa.

Laura:

And I'm Laura.

Xhafer:

And we're gonna play some plot poker

Laura:

Yeah, it's that time again.

Xhafer:

so we have a couple packs of the shadows expansion left, and then we're

Xhafer:

gonna get into some great war packs, which we did once before, but we were, they

Xhafer:

were super spoily towns, so we're gonna

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

now, now they

Laura:

to take some out.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I love that.

Laura:

Obviously the shadows cover on the package is a shadow, right?

Laura:

And the Great War is a warland.

Laura:

It's a very nice touch.

Xhafer:

Oh, I've got the, the cover the box art.

Xhafer:

Mr.

Xhafer:

Morden Flanked by two shadows.

Xhafer:

Ooh.

Laura:

that's a good one.

Xhafer:

do I put him under characters or I put him under problems?

Xhafer:

I think we're gonna put him under characters.

Laura:

I think if you get another one, you can put that one under problems.

Laura:

I was looking at my stacks today before you got on online, and uh, I'm pretty

Laura:

sure I have Atheros in every stack.

Laura:

So, Z Atheros can be a, a character or he can be a problem,

Xhafer:

solution.

Laura:

solution, or a twist

Laura:

Let's see.

Laura:

Did I get anybody in my first pack?

Laura:

I got another Zs I can just load, load my deck up with Zs until we get some

Xhafer:

Some good

Laura:

Zhara heavy plots.

Xhafer:

I got a shadow ship.

Laura:

Ooh, that sounds like a problem.

Xhafer:

That does sound like a problem.

Laura:

I got a Lon Cruiser

Xhafer:

Ooh.

Laura:

Is that a problem or a solution?

Xhafer:

I could see it being either

Laura:

Ooh.

Laura:

Well, we haven't actually seen this character yet, but he's

Laura:

been referred to Emperor Carta.

Xhafer:

Yeah, we will see him soon.

Xhafer:

He's referred to by name in this episode multiple times.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

So I'll go ahead and throw him in there in my stack.

Xhafer:

I got one that I'm gonna show you the card, but I'm not gonna

Xhafer:

say what it is cuz it's super spoily town, but it's unexpected return.

Xhafer:

Can you make out who that is?

Laura:

I think I do.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

A hooded figure.

Laura:

I got a walkabout, which is you know, relevant to our current plots.

Xhafer:

Ooh, I got a what are you,

Laura:

Whoa.

Laura:

I don't think we've had that question, have we

Xhafer:

we, we have not, it's kind of rude to be perfectly.

Laura:

It is kind of rude.

Xhafer:

Oh, hey, would you believe I got Dr.

Xhafer:

Lillian Hobbs?

Laura:

Oh wow.

Laura:

What a good get for right now.

Xhafer:

I wonder if Lillian Hobbs got the trading card for having

Xhafer:

a character named after her.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I hope so.

Xhafer:

You know, it just occurred to me that statistically we've probably opened

Xhafer:

more packs of this card game than anyone else in the world, in the

Laura:

Possibly

Xhafer:

Like if you take the timeframe and cut it to just this, like the last

Xhafer:

six to 12 months, it's probably us.

Xhafer:

If not, we're probably in the top 10.

Laura:

There may be some super nerds out there beating us,

Laura:

but do they have a podcast?

Xhafer:

I don't know.

Xhafer:

The bo, the boxes are so cheap that it's just, I just like open and pack.

Xhafer:

Sometimes it just makes me feel nostalgic.

Xhafer:

will we start off with Atheros coming to Babylon five?

Xhafer:

It

Laura:

It's a Zaris episode.

Xhafer:

I hope you've got two Z actresses in your pile of four right now.

Laura:

That'd be great, wouldn't it?

Xhafer:

As Zs come on, comes on board the station, though they're

Xhafer:

having an issue with a hacker

Laura:

Ooh.

Xhafer:

messing up the systems on the station.

Xhafer:

They believe he's one of the home guard people left over.

Laura:

Mm Yeah.

Xhafer:

And they managed to capture him, but with a personal sacrifice.

Xhafer:

Uh, So how they end up getting him is Garabaldi has to let some of his personal

Xhafer:

logs go as bait that the hacker takes, and then they use that to find the hacker.

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

And so now some people know about his history with

Xhafer:

the booze that he would rather

Laura:

Embarrassing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And then the twist at the end is there's some cyco subliminal influences

Xhafer:

that have been left in the system that may impact other people in the future.

Laura:

Oh no,

Xhafer:

So I don't know what Zora's had to do with any of

Xhafer:

this, but I like this episode.

Laura:

I'm sure Z Atheros was involved in like the uh, the technical

Laura:

parts, you know, with as many tools.

Xhafer:

Maybe his presence on the station, maybe he was like digging around in

Xhafer:

something and that's what allowed the hacker to do the thing in the first place.

Laura:

Oh yeah.

Xhafer:

He accidentally took down a security thing.

Laura:

whoops.

Laura:

That seems like a real Z Atheros move.

Xhafer:

Sure does

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

So in the B plot I, I drew his atheros, but I'm gonna put him aside.

Laura:

, we're.

Laura:

Okay, so we have an ambitious centara captain has come to the station and he

Laura:

is, you know, out for ladder climbing that centara often are trying to do.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Such as their way.

Laura:

and he is one that's on Lord Rehas side, let's say, because we

Laura:

know that our Lord Refa has some connections with the shadows.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's, he's now taking over the calls from Mr.

Laura:

Morton and this ambitious centara captain is looking for a shadow base, he is,

Laura:

Trying to find a shadow base and uh, prove his own worth in the Great Empire.

Laura:

So Kar has kind of gotten wind of this Centara captain and what he's up to.

Laura:

And he still has remaining followers on Babel and five, right?

Laura:

So he's trying to rally the people and trying to get some influence in order

Laura:

to take out this Sonari ship that he knows is on a quest, looking for more

Laura:

allies and the shadow base that he thinks is going to be advantageous to him.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

And uh, a as he's rallying all the people, they managed to get, you know,

Laura:

the Centara captain driven away and the twist is, at the end of that, that the

Laura:

centara captain was given a slow poison.

Xhafer:

Ah.

Laura:

people managed to also sneak a slow poison in through some agents.

Laura:

And so as the ship is leaving Babylon five it's not gonna make it to the Centara

Laura:

base because the captain is going to be taken out by a slow poison on the way.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well, it's a shame that that gives us a really good segue

Xhafer:

because we can't take it.

Xhafer:

Uh, Cuz I need to ask you, how do you rate our episode on a

Xhafer:

scale of babylon's one to five?

Laura:

I think it's interesting that the plot that had some shenanigans

Laura:

potential was your A plot use.

Laura:

Usually the shenanigans belong in the B plot, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

But this is P one five.

Laura:

So sometimes we just have shenanigans where we have shenanigans.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It makes, it gets mixed up sometimes for.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So I don't know.

Laura:

I feel like this is a pretty good lore episode.

Laura:

know, if we've got

Xhafer:

app.

Laura:

Cary and we've got NANS fighting them and they're subversive

Laura:

ways and little bit of shadow stuff mixed in the background.

Laura:

Uh, So yeah.

Laura:

This sounds like a pretty solid, average episode to me.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We, so much of the stuff we get with the cent, Tori is like almost directly

Xhafer:

through Rondo's eyes or, or veers.

Xhafer:

And it's usually not people who have Rondo's ambition

Xhafer:

but aren't at his station.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

And there's gotta be a ton of those people around the Republic.

Xhafer:

So it makes sense that someone would be out like, Hey, this ship

Xhafer:

helped us, but we don't know who they are, so I'm gonna go find 'em.

Xhafer:

Like some like low level dude who's just like, I've got a ship, but

Xhafer:

I don't know anything important.

Xhafer:

Going and trying to find their secret allies.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And we know this entire are real like social climbers,

Laura:

so very believable.

Laura:

. All right, so what was that segue?

Laura:

You were gonna take us with

Xhafer:

Well, that Centuri ambitious captain might die of a

Xhafer:

slow poison, and not every centuri makes it out of this episode.

Xhafer:

We have season three episode 20, and the Rock cried out, no hiding place.

Laura:

Mm.

Laura:

So good.

Xhafer:

It's so good.

Xhafer:

We get a very ominous Z minus 14 days.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We're getting a countdown to

Xhafer:

There's a countdown.

Xhafer:

We don't know.

Xhafer:

Something with a Z because that's the weird addition to this.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

Yeah, it's, I don't know why you would do Z might, it's so weird.

Xhafer:

Like, I guess, I don't . Know.

Xhafer:

It just is like, I know it's a storytelling device and that the

Xhafer:

characters are not aware of it clearly because they're not talking about, oh

Xhafer:

yeah, you know, that holiday Z day that we're gonna celebrate for the first time.

Xhafer:

You know?

Xhafer:

And it's like the music and the stinger, like, it's all, it's all

Xhafer:

there to be perfectly ominous and it's not pretending otherwise.

Xhafer:

It just feels weird because we don't have a device like this

Xhafer:

at any other point in this show.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

I completely forgotten about this countdown.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Me too.

Laura:

It's nice that they're really giving us a point in time though,

Xhafer:

Yeah, we know, we know it's some 14 days like to have that kind of a solid

Xhafer:

chronology of an episode even is unusual.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

I, I like when we get those points in time, you know, cuz we've had it where.

Laura:

The season tried to point out where in the year we're at as we get close to New

Laura:

Year's or we get past New Year's, like telling us how far apart things are.

Laura:

I like that cuz I, I don't have a strong sense of time always and I need that.

Laura:

So on opening up Z minus 14 days, we've got another Ivan of a personal log.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Big war update.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

We see uh, that telepaths are being moved to ships all

Xhafer:

around to help fight the shadow.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Did you catch who we are assigning to first in this scene?

Xhafer:

no

Laura:

We have somebody who's getting stuck on a Pac Mira ship.

Laura:

I, I turned to my husband and I was like, God, I hope there's somebody on

Laura:

that ship that's packing the right food.

Xhafer:

Right . I am bringing exactly 400 bags of beef jerky,

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

and hoping I can make it work.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

You need to pack like you remember when we, when you uh, set up

Laura:

your food on the Oregon Trail?

Laura:

Cuz if you're stuck with the Pak Murra for a long . Time.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

That

Laura:

You don't wanna just go down to the cafeteria.

Xhafer:

No, no.

Xhafer:

That's gonna be a bad day.

Laura:

Indeed.

Xhafer:

After the telecast, we found out that Sheridan is moving

Xhafer:

the League of Nine Lion Worlds around as a single allied fleet,

Laura:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

which is a big deal because most of these people were at war

Xhafer:

with each other six episodes ago.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Like shadow induced war.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

Somehow we've gotten them over

Xhafer:

that.

Xhafer:

. Yeah.

Xhafer:

People are coming together to help fight the shadows.

Xhafer:

Uh, Franklin is still out on Walkabout.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

We get a reminder that Brother Theo exists, so

Xhafer:

we know he's in this episode.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Hooray.

Laura:

I don't know how much longer we get Brother Theo.

Laura:

So we gotta enjoy him while we can.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And we cut over.

Xhafer:

Kar, who is assigning Narn bodyguards to all the Telepaths being

Xhafer:

assigned to miscellaneous ships.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Remember, if you're walking around with a Narn bodyguard, there's a

Laura:

person who's gonna live to 150, right?

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

That's the rules.

Xhafer:

Ivanni was like uh, you do not have great relations with everyone

Xhafer:

that we're putting on these ships.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This might not

Laura:

NAS haven't always made friends.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

But, uh, Kar believes in the cause, so.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

And they, they finds it a poetic to send these, you know, this race that has no

Laura:

telepath is going to guard the Telepaths and still fight the shadows anyway.

Laura:

And I think that's a, I think he's right.

Laura:

It is a little bit poetic.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Uh, Meanwhile we cut over Tolando, who has decided to finally do something about Kar.

Xhafer:

He, he has a plan to get Kar to leave Sanctuary on Babylon five for Narn, and he

Xhafer:

needs veers help to execute Kar to theme.

. Laura:

Yeah, this is a big reveal,

Xhafer:

Spoo still on the fork.

Xhafer:

Veers just like what?

Laura:

I love how the SP wasn't prepared properly and he

Laura:

forces veer to switch with him.

Xhafer:

I feel like Lando is the guy who orders his steak.

Xhafer:

Well done.

Xhafer:

And Veer is the guy who orders his steak.

Xhafer:

Very well done,

Laura:

yeah,

Xhafer:

And he, he is just like, you're trading.

Xhafer:

It's like Lando wants a, a medium well, but he doesn't trust anyone to do it.

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

Yeah, I could see that.

Laura:

No one is going to do it.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

Because that's how Londo feels about everything.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

one, but Londo.

Laura:

back from theme, Ivan's hanging out with Brother Theo.

Laura:

He's waiting for some other religious figures to arrive on Babylon.

Laura:

Five.

Laura:

We get a nice cohort that's coming in.

Laura:

Some of them annoy him clearly, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's a nice cohort with plenty of sass from Theo.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's

Xhafer:

having a good time here.

Laura:

we've got some good guest stars in here.

Laura:

Did you Google any of these guys?

Xhafer:

I recognize them, but I did not Google them.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So the one that brother Theo is clearly most agitated with is Mel Winkler.

Laura:

And he is playing the uh, Southern Baptist Reverend who is kind

Laura:

of key in this episode for me.

Laura:

But Mel Winkler, he's a, a real recognizable face, right?

Laura:

Definitely has some that guy chops running around.

Laura:

I think the thing that most of our listeners will recognize him

Laura:

from is that he was in star Trek Voyager in the 30 sevens episode.

Laura:

You remember that one?

Xhafer:

Oh yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We find all the past people in the del Trick

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Amelia Earhart and stuff.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So he's one of the past people.

Xhafer:

Oh, okay.

Laura:

so yeah, especially I know you're in a Voyager rewatch,

Laura:

so if he felt familiar, That's probably the last time you saw him.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I'm

Laura:

But he did Cosby Show and he did a bunch of other

Laura:

stuff.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

So we got Mel Winkler and then we've got next

Laura:

recognizable guy is Eric Avari.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

And uh, I think, again, the most recognizable place for me as

Laura:

a host of this podcast was he is the Seti guy in Independence Day,

Xhafer:

Okay.

Laura:

like the Seti chief, you know, the beginning of the movie

Xhafer:

Yeah, that's, I knew I recognized him from, so,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

And I also have a fun story about Eric Avari.

Laura:

He and I have been in the same series,

Xhafer:

What?

Laura:

I, I was an extra in the Librarian three when it filmed in

Laura:

New Orleans in 2008 And apparently he was in the Librarian two in 2006.

Laura:

So,

Xhafer:

degree of separation.

Laura:

yeah, I mean, I've practically been in Blon five now, right?

Xhafer:

a hundred percent.

Xhafer:

That's totally how that works.

Laura:

this is, this is the head Cannon So, yeah, I, I loved that.

Laura:

When I, when I saw him, I recognized him from Independence Day, so I went

Laura:

Googling and I was like, oh my God.

Laura:

We've both been in the librarian movies, both directed by Jonathan Franks as well.

Laura:

So yeah, I never actually watched all of the Librarian three, I watched

Laura:

past my scene, which was toward the beginning of the movie, and uh,

Laura:

Then I was like, wow, this is bad.

Laura:

And I turned it off.

Xhafer:

After the religious delegation, heads out, REFA walks into the station

Xhafer:

wondering what was going on there.

Xhafer:

Oh, well, it must have been nothing.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

uh, REFA is really looking forward to meeting with . Minister Verini

Laura:

and Londo a little bit, right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's got some plans.

Laura:

Plans upon plans.

Laura:

That's all.

Laura:

This

Xhafer:

yep.

Xhafer:

Dalen tells Sheridan to get some sleep and at Thesaurus Sheridan is trying

Xhafer:

to piece together the shadow attacks with no luck, and Dalen has arranged

Xhafer:

a need for him to take a break.

Laura:

Uhhuh.

Xhafer:

Since Mbar don't lie, you'll give great shame to me and my family.

Xhafer:

If you don't come to the dinner that I said you'd be at

Laura:

This is a very wifey move, isn't it?

Laura:

I know we're not, we're not that serious, but it's a very wifey move.

Xhafer:

Lando is aware of Refi's presence and tells his plan to get Kar to veer.

Xhafer:

He tells Veer that NATA is still alive in their government building

Xhafer:

and he knows that Kar is the only one who knows that building well

Xhafer:

enough to be the one to go save her.

Laura:

Mm.

Xhafer:

And when Veer is all like, I don't want to tell Kar this.

Xhafer:

He's all like, fuck you, you are gonna tell Kar this, or I'm gonna tell everyone

Xhafer:

what you did with those fucking Narn when you were on Minbar and then your family's

Xhafer:

gonna get shamed and killed and then you are going to get shamed and killed.

Laura:

Yeah, he's gonna blow up the whole Abraham Lincon story.

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Refa and the Minister talk about Babylon five.

Xhafer:

How some real Alphas talk about those Delta cooks.

Xhafer:

I, I, I guess I don't, that's just kind of the vibe I got.

Xhafer:

I don't know how any of that conversation actually goes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

You're not in that corner of YouTube, huh?

Xhafer:

No.

Xhafer:

Nope.

Laura:

Good for you.

Laura:

Stay outta

Xhafer:

shit,

Laura:

Keep that

Laura:

outta your algorithm.

Xhafer:

I was, at a gym the other day working out and some dude was wearing

Xhafer:

a shirt that was just like sleeveless cut off lifting weights, you know, like,

Xhafer:

like you would expect that just said alpha af and I'm all like, if you have

Xhafer:

to put that on a T-shirt, I have some bad news for you about your actual status.

Xhafer:

Like, it's absurd.

Laura:

and sometimes it's like, well, are you doing it?

Laura:

Ironically, I don't know.

Laura:

I don't know you so

Xhafer:

I didn't get that vibe, but I also did not have a conversation.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's one of the things, you need a lot more context in order to sniff that out,

Laura:

but do you actually wanna get the context?

Laura:

Mm.

Xhafer:

Probably not.

Xhafer:

If someone was running around wearing a Trump Fuck Your Feeling shirt.

Xhafer:

I would not engage them to find out if it was ironic or not.

Laura:

right.

Xhafer:

I'm just not interested.

Xhafer:

I'm

Laura:

You have to signal that visually somehow.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Right.

Laura:

Anyway, these guys are wanna be alphas.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

He tells the minister that he brought him to Babbel on five so he could

Xhafer:

just see how Alien Lando has become.

Xhafer:

That's his big play here.

Xhafer:

It's like, look, there's this thing between my house and LA and House Malawi.

Xhafer:

But Lando is like not even Centuri anymore.

Xhafer:

He spent too much time among the aliens,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's gone

Laura:

native

Xhafer:

he shouldn't even be considered.

Xhafer:

Yeah, you gotta get

Xhafer:

him out of the.

Xhafer:

. As soon as he says this,

Xhafer:

Perfect timing.

Laura:

It's also the most ridiculous thing, right?

Laura:

Like Lando is clinging to his centerness harder than anybody we've seen

Xhafer:

Veer goes to Kar, goes to commercial.

Xhafer:

The minister gives Lando the same speech he gave Refa about how this issue between

Xhafer:

the two houses needs to be resolved.

Xhafer:

And he's all like, well, I'll not solve this with words.

Xhafer:

I will prove this with actions.

Xhafer:

a guard overhears all of it and sneakily walks away in the background.

Laura:

So sneaky.

Xhafer:

After this we get the dinner for Sheridan to relax at and we find

Xhafer:

that they've brought back a bunch of stolen transmissions from Earth.

Laura:

Hey,

Xhafer:

them all in a Bible.

Laura:

look at this.

Laura:

Especially the Baptist was useful.

Laura:

I think that's

Xhafer:

the resistance lives on

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

the, he, the, the, the minister here does get the best line, which

Xhafer:

is ra I'd rather do something and be wrong than do nothing out of fear.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Good line.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Good, good.

Laura:

Call to action.

Xhafer:

Kar goes to gu Baldi to ask him to smuggle him to narn

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

A big package.

Laura:

I love how he describes it.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

How, how

Xhafer:

big's

Xhafer:

the package?

Laura:

yay wide yeah.

Laura:

And he, he doesn't tell him that he's got word about NATA being alive,

Laura:

just that this is a personal thing.

Laura:

and he is hoping for somebody to be able to drop him off and then idle for a while.

Laura:

and

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Just hang out for a couple hours and then bring me back.

Laura:

So presumably this is the Rangers that are gonna do this, pull this off.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

For sure.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Probably Marcus personally at this point,

Laura:

yeah, this is Marcus's kind of bread and butter.

Laura:

He loves this stuff.

Xhafer:

Right?

Xhafer:

We don't see it, but I'd like to thank you that he is there,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

after this veer gets on the elevator and gets jumped by the Sonari goons,

Laura:

he's taken to a dark room and uh, just imprisoned there by Lord Refa

Laura:

who's says, you know that hey you've gotta tell me these plans that Maari

Laura:

has, or we're gonna take it from you,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Vere's not happy about this.

Xhafer:

He's like, REFA, what Matts to you about this?

Xhafer:

What are you doing?

Xhafer:

What is going on?

Xhafer:

But uh, yeah veer has a bad go as Centuri nor McDonald steps out of the shadows and

Xhafer:

probes his mind to find out Rondo's plan.

Laura:

These centara Telepaths, they clearly don't have the same

Laura:

code of ethics that you see.

Laura:

The Cycore at least proclaim.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

The Cyco doesn't have Cyco code of ethics either, but , there's

Laura:

like a facade there, right?

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

After all this, we see uh, Sheridan and Reverend Dexter talk about

Xhafer:

sharing responsibility, the worry

Xhafer:

tank getting full,

Laura:

Uhhuh,

Xhafer:

he's like, well, I don't wanna pile on Glen.

Xhafer:

You know, she's got her own shit.

Xhafer:

And then he tells the story about his uh, wife cleaning his apartment

Xhafer:

because it was more than just cleaning.

Xhafer:

It was helping.

Xhafer:

And that felt different.

Xhafer:

It wasn't just it, it's not a one for one.

Xhafer:

When you help somebody.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I mean, gender rolls aside in that conversation.

Laura:

I get the idea.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's different when you're doing something with somebody or for somebody

Laura:

than when you're just doing it yourself.

Laura:

Like, I always find it harder to cook for myself.

Laura:

if for some reason the boys are both gone, it's like, well, You know,

Laura:

if, if I don't have something in my mind that I'm like, I really want

Laura:

this and I never get this, you know,

Laura:

it's like, why bother

Laura:

I don't need to

Laura:

eat to live.

Xhafer:

I always will go out and get fried chicken when I'm by myself,

Xhafer:

because I'm the only one who's really, I, I, I don't even wanna say I'm like

Xhafer:

really into fried chicken, but we've got a really good fried chicken place.

Xhafer:

It's not very far from me that I 100% will just be all like time to go.

Laura:

sometimes I'm gonna admit something very shameful.

Laura:

Sometimes when Aaron is not around.

Laura:

My thing is Arby's because he hates Arby's.

Laura:

. So I'll go get myself a beef and Cheddar

Xhafer:

that Arby's tastes like sadness.

Xhafer:

I, I, I do occasionally go cuz low key, they have an a menu item

Xhafer:

that is super good and it's just like, it's their Turkey euro.

Laura:

Oh,

Xhafer:

If you have not had the Turkey euro from Arby's, one

Xhafer:

Arby's sponsored this podcast.

Xhafer:

Two, go try a Turkey euro.

Xhafer:

And you're like, cuz it's just like, why would I order that from Arby's?

Xhafer:

It's not even a Euro.

Xhafer:

Right?

Xhafer:

Cuz you're right, listener.

Xhafer:

If you're upset that I consider the Turkey euro from Arby's a euro, it's not,

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

it's also not pronounced gyro.

Xhafer:

I don't care what part of the country you live in.

Laura:

Well, the point of this whole scene was like that Sheridan needs

Laura:

a confidant is Dexter's opinion.

Laura:

And this little lady is crazy about him.

Laura:

He can

Laura:

tell.

Laura:

So,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He sees it.

Xhafer:

He knows

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

But Sheridan doesn't like to be lectured at.

Laura:

Have you noticed this about our boy

Xhafer:

a hundred percent

Laura:

Especially not from

Xhafer:

going to lecture me.

Xhafer:

. He does get a jab in here about like, oh, are you going

Xhafer:

to sell me your religion now?

Xhafer:

And he's just like, I don't care about selling you my religion.

Xhafer:

When God comes and knocking.

Xhafer:

You won't need me to tell you who it is.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, that's probably the best way to be as a uh, a religious figure.

Laura:

Let your actions do the talking

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

So we get another Z

Laura:

minus 13 days.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

We've definitely turned over days here, and Kar is

Laura:

arriving on the Narn home world.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And we see the state of Narn it is basically nuclear winter.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

They say something about

Laura:

it's, you know, dust, wind, cold the, the dust is probably contributing to the cold.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

Blocking out sunlight.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

They expect it to last for years, I would assume so.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

We cut over to the Karie building.

Xhafer:

I, well, I guess it's the same building that Chi Car's in.

Xhafer:

It's just the part of it that's being used by the Centauri and Refa talks shit like

Xhafer:

a Batman villain when they think they've won, but it's still before they've won.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is the Huberous man.

Laura:

Don't do it.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

It is never a good look.

Laura:

Nope, nope, nope.

Laura:

I, I thought it was very funny that in this part of the government

Laura:

building, we are setting it up to look like this Inari Royal Palace,

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Because we need this cent entire Royal Palace set here soon in this show,

Laura:

and we gotta start getting it ready yeah.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

we totally didn't just want to build another set.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

yeah, the excuse is that, you know, car Taja is going to come visit Narn.

Laura:

at some point and he wants to be, you know, at home on Narn.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

What kind of weirdo would do that?

Laura:

Jafa.

Xhafer:

Well, when we meet Kaja.

Laura:

gonna be interesting, that's for sure.

Laura:

So Refa needs some loyal guards to come on this mission that he's got,

Laura:

that he thinks he's going to finally get one up on Malawi for good.

Xhafer:

yep.

Xhafer:

He needs the, the most loyal guards so that he can deliver

Xhafer:

Malawi's head on a silver platter.

Xhafer:

And he's like, oh, I got just the guys.

Xhafer:

Don't you worry about that.

Xhafer:

Sheridan Dalen puzzle out the shadows tactics.

Xhafer:

and they figure it out.

Xhafer:

They are corralling people into a central location in order

Xhafer:

to attack them all at once.

Laura:

Yeah, we start putting the everything up as dots on the tv,

Laura:

you know, in the cube of the sector.

Laura:

And uh, we see that they're trying to drive them into a certain space.

Xhafer:

and then Sheridan says that that's what he would do, and Len is not happy.

Laura:

I, I, I, totally understand his sentiment.

Laura:

He's saying, this is what I would do if I didn't have a conscience or ethics

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

She cannot imagine being someone who did not have a conscience or ethics,

Laura:

unlike Sheridan and myself, apparently

Xhafer:

So, yeah, she's just like, all right, break.

Xhafer:

after this, Lando rescues veer as Kar moves underground and is followed by Refa.

Xhafer:

And at this point we start this big cross-cut sequence between the

Xhafer:

preaching and the Narn home world.

Xhafer:

Kar plays a message from Lando listing off the reasons why his vengeance is overdue.

Xhafer:

And refa is like, what madness is this?

Laura:

There it is.

Laura:

I thought you were

Xhafer:

Yep.

Laura:

and then you just like uh,

Xhafer:

Nope.

Xhafer:

Drop edging the whole episode.

Xhafer:

Kar delivers the death sentence as the choir sings.

Xhafer:

And what follows might be my favorite two minutes of babble on five.

Laura:

I agree.

Laura:

Hard, agree.

Laura:

This is really impactful.

Xhafer:

It's such a good scene.

Xhafer:

It's so well done.

Xhafer:

I will say I feel like the HD remaster did take a bit away from

Xhafer:

this because the scenes on Narn did not seem to be upscaled, like

Xhafer:

the scenes on the station were,

Xhafer:

and that made it a

Xhafer:

little jarring.

Laura:

I definitely thought it did not look as good.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I, I wish that the narn scenes had been a little bit cleaner.

Xhafer:

But yeah.

Xhafer:

The Nans beat refa to death leaving the data crystal in his face alone while the

Xhafer:

choir sings that there's no hiding place.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

No hiding place for the

Xhafer:

Yep.

Laura:

I think it's interesting.

Laura:

If you watch Ja car in the scene, he does not throw any blows.

Laura:

He just watches everyone else throw blows and kind of turns away.

Laura:

And that's sort of telegraphing to me how different Kar is than he would've

Laura:

been at the first of this show, right?

Xhafer:

for sure.

Laura:

He was always out for blood.

Laura:

But now, you know, he.

Laura:

knows that throwing any of those blows is not gonna make him feel any better.

Laura:

He knows that they've got to do this, not just for moari, you

Laura:

know, they're doing it for the

Xhafer:

For Narn.

Laura:

millions of nans that died.

Laura:

Right?

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And the mil and the thousands of Nans that will be freed.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

They're, they're doing it for a reason, but he doesn't feel the blood anymore.

Xhafer:

So it's clear that Londo had to have gone and

Xhafer:

talked to Kar after Veer, right?

Xhafer:

Like that's the only way this happens cuz he's not around looking for nata

Xhafer:

and he plays the message from Londo.

Xhafer:

We do not see this scene.

Xhafer:

I want to see this scene.

Xhafer:

I

Xhafer:

understand that You can't give it to us for the narrative.

Xhafer:

Like, yeah, but I would've loved if they could have cut back to it and showed

Xhafer:

us that super awkward conversation.

Xhafer:

Rolando's like, Hey, you're gonna go rescue nata.

Xhafer:

She's not there.

Xhafer:

That was a lie.

Xhafer:

Here's what's actually going on.

Xhafer:

I need you to kill this fucker.

Xhafer:

Here's the evidence that he's the one who destroyed your home world.

Xhafer:

He did all of this terrible shit.

Xhafer:

I couldn't stop.

Xhafer:

I don't care if you believe me about that, but here's the evidence that he did it.

Xhafer:

And if you go and do this, I will free of narn.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That could have been a cool scene.

Laura:

Like, you know, you just after, after this, obviously because this is cool

Laura:

enough on its own you get kar just like staring off into space thinking

Laura:

and then you fade into the the past flashback of their conversation

Laura:

and Kar deciding to do this.

Laura:

. That could have been cool too.

Laura:

I mean, maybe narratively they didn't need it, obviously, but

Laura:

yeah, it

Laura:

could have been fun.

Xhafer:

have not been in person since the dust thing,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

so we, we need to see them together

Xhafer:

still.

Xhafer:

Mm.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So good though, like the, the cuts back and forth, the music, this is such a

Laura:

well written little, I mean uh, and the Rock cre out, no Hiding Place is like

Laura:

a traditional spiritual American song.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

But there's lots of different versions of words.

Laura:

If you Google it you know, lots of bluegrass versions out there

Laura:

on um, apple Music or whatever.

Laura:

You use them to find your stuff.

Laura:

But this is like well chosen and the choir is, you know,

Laura:

well choreographed with their,

Xhafer:

Yeah

Laura:

words and actions and stuff.

Laura:

It just fits really, really well.

Laura:

And now if you Google, instead of getting, just getting the song or the

Laura:

spiritual, you get this episode, you know,

Xhafer:

yeah.

Laura:

it's

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

It's so good.

Xhafer:

I.

Xhafer:

I, I like asked Google to play the song while I was doing, like digging into

Xhafer:

the notes to start watching the episode and it played the version from the show.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

That's how, how much it's really tied in and become associated with this scene.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So Rondo's plan is fulfilled as he talks it over with the minister.

Xhafer:

He puts all of Vere's work on bar on rfa.

Xhafer:

He doesn't like, obviously he can't say that, but when he is talking

Xhafer:

about the stuff that RFA was doing, some of that, not all of it, but some

Xhafer:

of it is definitely the stuff that would very easily be Abraham Lincon.

Xhafer:

Right.

Xhafer:

And so he does this besides for his own reason, he also clears Vere's name.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

So if anyone ever finds this shit, they won't point to.

Xhafer:

, they'll know that it washa.

Xhafer:

Now,

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

And I, I don't think Veer knows this.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

And I don't

Laura:

think he's gonna know this.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's pissed about being used and rightfully so, you know, he was

Xhafer:

lied to outright knowing that, you know, Orlando knew Veer was gonna get got,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

was gonna get interrogated and that he needed that to

Xhafer:

happen in order to get refa

Xhafer:

specifically in this manner,

Laura:

Yeah, and he couldn't even give Veer any reassurance that, you

Laura:

know, I'm not actually sending Kar to his death, theoretically , you

Laura:

know, like I'm not making you betray him because he knows that he's

Laura:

gonna get telepathically scanned.

Laura:

So he only gives him part of the story.

Laura:

And fear has to feel terrible for at least a day, right?

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And after this Dalen shows Sheridan, Hey, I bought you a new car.

Xhafer:

And then they make out

Laura:

it is.

Laura:

Finally, kiss time guys.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It just takes a fleet of warships to really get them

Xhafer:

both in the mood, apparently

Laura:

that's an

Xhafer:

some romance.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

It's bizarre, but I get it.

Xhafer:

Like it's, we're doing this thing, you know, here's the fleet of white stars.

Xhafer:

It's a really cool reveal.

Laura:

and then we end on Z minus 10 days.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

We're getting there.

Xhafer:

. So whatever Z is.

Laura:

Soja Fair.

Xhafer:

Laura,

Laura:

How do you feel about this episode on a scale of babylon's one to five?

Xhafer:

I really like this episode.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

This is a great episode.

Xhafer:

It's great to see Lando really pull out those skeen shops and

Xhafer:

be the character we know he is.

Xhafer:

It's great to see that plan come to fruition.

Xhafer:

The episode itself, like the alo, the blot, it all comes together

Xhafer:

very well, even though the alot and blo don't intertwine in the story.

Xhafer:

The, the shots and the theme are really great.

Xhafer:

Cuz you know, it's talking about the na resistance to talking

Xhafer:

about the earth resistance too.

Xhafer:

So there's a lot of stuff overlaying that shows that there is hope that

Xhafer:

these evil people who are doing evil things will have justice.

Xhafer:

For their crimes.

Xhafer:

It's great.

Xhafer:

I don't have any complaints, but it's not, it doesn't feel

Xhafer:

like a perfect episode to me.

Xhafer:

Like I feel like other episodes are better, but it's one of those like, ask

Xhafer:

me to ask me to tell you why I can't.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This is a solid four out of five for me.

Xhafer:

It's a great app.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

it's

Laura:

It's, it, it it made such an impression on me that I'm

Laura:

gonna give it my five outta five.

Laura:

Like I, again, I have no.

Laura:

No notes, . You know, the, because we've seen Lando be

Laura:

both competent and a buffoon.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

real interesting turn into that ruthless competency

Laura:

that he can sometimes have.

Laura:

And I, I love the scheming.

Laura:

I love it.

Laura:

I love, you know, I hate for vere that he got put in that position, but

Laura:

it's absolutely what Wado had to do in order to get what he needed done.

Laura:

And I really like that he chose the enemy of his enemy to be his friend.

Laura:

You know, that he went to Kar even though they're not friends,

Xhafer:

no.

Laura:

And knew he could get something that Kar really wanted and needed.

Laura:

And also get his enemy out of his way.

Laura:

And this is just a, a start on a ruthless path for him that he's

Laura:

going to try to set some things.

Laura:

Mm.

Laura:

I don't know right is the word, but he's trying to do some, some things better

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

So, you know, I, man, if you're veer right now, I, I, do

Laura:

you think up to this point veer felt like Lando still had something

Laura:

redeemable in him, or do you think he had already kind of turned on that?

Xhafer:

He, he still thinks Lando is redeemable.

Xhafer:

He's, he's said things along those lines this season

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

If you feel, if you feel that way after the genocide and all that stuff,

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

then you're gonna feel that way for forever.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

So you think at the end of this episode he's still, he's upset, but

Laura:

he still believes, I think if there's an eternal optimist on this show,

Laura:

it's probably gonna be veer, right?

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

So, I don't know.

Laura:

It's just real beautiful for me.

Laura:

And I, I'm okay.

Laura:

I'm a sucker for anything that wisely uses coral music in it, So uh, the

Laura:

gospel choir for me just nails it.

Laura:

This whole thing is great work of art.

Laura:

I love it.

Laura:

Five outta five.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well, next week we've got season three episode 21, shadow Dancing.

Xhafer:

The Shadows Launch A major offensive Franklin finds a spiritual resolution

Xhafer:

and Sheridan receives a surprise visitor, and he's not the only one.

Xhafer:

We've got a surprise visitor too.

Xhafer:

We're gonna be joined by Yum.

Xhafer:

Yum.

Xhafer:

Podcast next episode.

Laura:

Hooray.

Laura:

I'm so excited.

Xhafer:

Yes, me too.

Xhafer:

Uh, We.

Xhafer:

Haven't got the exact time yet due to the ridiculous multinational

Xhafer:

time change we're dealing with.

Xhafer:

But I'm very excited to have to have them on and it's gonna be a great time.

Xhafer:

So tune in next week for that.

Xhafer:

While we're closing out, let's say thank you Jeremy Siegel,

Xhafer:

creator of our lovely theme music.

Xhafer:

You can find more Jeremy's work at Jeremy Segel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

Laura:

And thank you to Angry Duck time machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

. Hey Aaron, thanks for editing our podcast.

Laura:

Yeah, thank you

Laura:

so much, Especially in these times.

Xhafer:

And thanks to all of you for listening.

Xhafer:

Uh, You can join the conversation on our discord.

Xhafer:

Who are you?

Xhafer:

B five gmail.com.

Xhafer:

We have other social media that I theoretically should take

Xhafer:

responsibility for, but I don't.

Xhafer:

Fuck Twitter.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

You can send us a Facebook message.

Laura:

We'll probably get to that, that, that might be a little easier.

Laura:

But definitely email.

Laura:

Who are you?

Laura:

B five gmail.com.

Xhafer:

We would ask for your thoughts on the end of season three.

Xhafer:

But this episode airs a month and a half from now, so , whoops.

Xhafer:

Uh, we

Xhafer:

needed to start asking for those a long time ago.

Laura:

we can consult the discord for

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

We'll, we'll consult the discord in real time,

Xhafer:

but, uh, yep.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

We'll see you next week.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.