Episode 73

full
Published on:

12th Apr 2023

S3E21 - Virgin Vibes

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer are joined by special guests Ryan and Rachel, hosts of Australia's #1 Babylon 5 podcast: Yum Yum Podcast, to discuss the letter Z, walkabouts, and awkward sleeping locations. Oh, and Babylon 5, Season 3 Episode 21: Shadow Dancing.

You can find more Yum Yum Podcast on your favorite podcatcher, Youtube, and Twitter @YumYumPodcast.

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello and welcome to Who Are You, the Babylon five watch cast hosted

Xhafer:

by two former strangers now, friends who have gotten to know each other

Xhafer:

while rewatching one of their favorite shows from their childhood, Babylon.

Xhafer:

Five.

Xhafer:

I'm Jafa.

Laura:

I'm Laura, and today we have some more friends.

Xhafer:

We do

YumYum:

Hello.

Xhafer:

go ahead and introduce yourselves,

YumYum:

Well, I'm Ryan Lewinsky.

YumYum:

One of the hosts from Yum Yum Podcast, the only podcast that's

YumYum:

the Australian Babylon five one.

YumYum:

That's right.

YumYum:

We're the experts.

YumYum:

Anytime B five comes up with some Australian cultural nonsense, I shake

YumYum:

my finger and go, ah, ah, that's a lie.

YumYum:

Or it's true, like, like v's.

YumYum:

Ex-boyfriend who was Australian, real Australian, one of the few times

YumYum:

they bothered to get a real one.

YumYum:

Never again though.

YumYum:

Never after that.

YumYum:

But and he looked like he was wearing some real Australian wool.

YumYum:

Oh, yeah.

YumYum:

What a word.

YumYum:

America I was, was really obsessed with in the eighties.

YumYum:

It was, it was true.

YumYum:

But yeah, overall, who I am, I'm just a I'm just your nerd.

YumYum:

I'm just your average science fiction TV nerd.

YumYum:

I just live and breathe the stuff, and so I, I wanted to podcast about it.

YumYum:

I'm a big Star Trek fan.

YumYum:

I'm a big Babylon five fan.

YumYum:

And well started podcasting about both of those things.

YumYum:

And it's, it's just fun to talk about older shows, newer shows, and I'm

YumYum:

just a, I'm just excited to be here.

YumYum:

That's

YumYum:

very

YumYum:

sweet.

Xhafer:

I'm excited to have you

YumYum:

And I'm Rachel.

YumYum:

I'm Ryan's wife and co-host.

YumYum:

I became a much more of a sci-fi nerd through my relationship with

YumYum:

Ryan cuz he kept on being like, you haven't seen all of Star Trek.

YumYum:

It's true.

YumYum:

It's on free tv.

YumYum:

I would hold your hand and say, I promise Voyager gets better.

YumYum:

and and it's one of my favorites now.

YumYum:

And then the Chikota seven relationship happened in the final season and

YumYum:

you looked at me and said, you promised it wouldn't get worse.

YumYum:

I lied.

YumYum:

I lied.

YumYum:

No, you warned me about that.

YumYum:

You warned me.

YumYum:

You are like, it comes out of nowhere.

YumYum:

It does and it goes nowhere.

YumYum:

Chemistry with the doctor is so much better, but chemistry with literally

YumYum:

anyone else is so much better.

YumYum:

Yep.

YumYum:

And we've been.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

And now we've been doing podcasts for a couple of years now.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

, we look at things from the married point of view as well.

YumYum:

I guess we're the only married couple doing B five.

YumYum:

The only people who argue about if if this is an actual good relationship

YumYum:

from the point of view of people in a, in a long-term relationship too.

YumYum:

It's fun.

Laura:

My husband is watching with me behind the scenes and he has

Laura:

never seen Babbel on five before.

Laura:

So a, it is fun to do with someone who hasn't seen it and somebody

Laura:

that you know very, very well.

YumYum:

I don't think Ryan would've married me if I hadn't watched a B five.

YumYum:

I had the DVDs, there was no excuse not to watch 'em.

YumYum:

So it is.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I actually don't know.

YumYum:

Would we be together if you turned around and said, nah, B five socks?

YumYum:

I don't know.

YumYum:

Or if I was like, nah, I'm not interested in watching that.

YumYum:

I, I dunno if either of you have gone to that point of a friendship or relationship

YumYum:

where you are struggling to choose them or the piece of media you like, but

YumYum:

I've, I've had plenty of those moments.

Laura:

I think I got rid of all the dus before I had to make that choice.

Laura:

The only thing I struggle with is sometimes he wants to watch

Laura:

the zombie media and I have to figure out what I'm gonna do when

Laura:

he's watching the zombie media.

Laura:

Gosh.

Laura:

It just gets in my brain.

Laura:

It's hard.

Xhafer:

I mean it good thing that all those zombie shows are so uplifting.

Xhafer:

Not a single one is depressing at

Laura:

Right, and there's, there's none that are really

Laura:

popular right now either, so

Xhafer:

No, totally not the case.

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

Not at all.

YumYum:

It's not like jms wrote a zombie thing either.

YumYum:

Let's never forget World War Ed.

YumYum:

What a weird film.

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

I did read that book.

YumYum:

He kills a kid in that movie too.

YumYum:

He really doesn't like kids

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

Yikes.

Xhafer:

that to my reasons to read Becoming Superman to see if there's

Xhafer:

a something underlying there.

YumYum:

Yes.

YumYum:

Just, just a yes, yes, yes.

Xhafer:

have you read Becoming Superman?

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

We've listened to the audio book version with with Londo reading it, and it's,

YumYum:

it's talking about uplifting J Yeah.

YumYum:

You read it and you go, yeah, yeah.

YumYum:

You are jms, aren't you?

YumYum:

This is why you, you are the way you are, huh?

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

because one of the events of this episode with Franklin getting beat up is

Xhafer:

inspired by real life events for j m s,

YumYum:

Yep.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

, he comes back to this a lot in B five as well.

YumYum:

He does.

YumYum:

We had this a couple of times already, but yeah, this is the most prominent

YumYum:

one and most direct parallel to it.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

To the point I was reading old posts on the use nets, and it was something

Xhafer:

where he hadn't even really put two and two together that this is what had

Xhafer:

inspired the story in the first place.

Xhafer:

Uh, And he talked about his own walk about there, where he just

Xhafer:

wandered around San Diego at two in the morning and then got mugged.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

I'm sure it's the exact same thing.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Oh yeah.

YumYum:

He wandered into a situation he shouldn't have, and then got stabbed and hurt

YumYum:

and had to crawl his way back to life.

YumYum:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

YumYum:

It's there.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

But did he meet himself and did he find that he was a jerk?

Xhafer:

I hope so.

YumYum:

I, I, I, I don't know, but I think that he probably figured out

YumYum:

that he didn't like himself very much.

YumYum:

Do you think that I, I get that sensation in Babylon five, that Jml JMS has a,

YumYum:

a struggle with his own, his own self.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I get that.

YumYum:

Just a dinge, just not the highest self-esteem of anybody.

YumYum:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

This episode almost didn't air in the uk.

Xhafer:

Also

YumYum:

Blood.

Xhafer:

scene.

Xhafer:

They ended up editing out.

Xhafer:

The seven seconds of the direct stabbing to air it on channel four,

Laura:

Is that just a censorship thing

Xhafer:

out earlier.

YumYum:

mm-hmm.

YumYum:

.Yeah.

YumYum:

The UK seemed pretty prudish back then, so.

YumYum:

They did have, I don't know if you've seen them, but there are some

YumYum:

online of, I think channel four.

YumYum:

You said it, have some fun Babylon five personalized TV spots where like the

YumYum:

actors like Richard Bigs, walks onto this really 1990s set and says like yellow,

YumYum:

there you are watching Channel four.

YumYum:

And then he walks off and there's another one with Jerry Doyle.

YumYum:

There's a few of them.

YumYum:

And I find it amusing when these actors from America had to do their

YumYum:

own personalized little, hello there.

YumYum:

Watch my show uh, in your country.

YumYum:

Bye.

Laura:

That's cute.

Xhafer:

Were they not in their uniforms?

Xhafer:

Were they in street clothes?

YumYum:

I think they were just in casual clothes.

YumYum:

I may be wrong, but uh, yeah, but they weren't their characters.

YumYum:

They were very much like, Hey, it's me, Jerry Doyle, and

YumYum:

you should watch B five.

Xhafer:

I don't know if this will make any sense to you at all but in America we used

Xhafer:

to have a kid show called Reading Rainbow.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

. Yes.

YumYum:

Lava Burton hosts some of that now.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah, it was Lava Burton was the host and he did an episode of Reading Rainbow

Xhafer:

where he went to the next gen set, cuz it was, they were filming at the same time.

Xhafer:

And uh, did a whole episode there with like Patrick Stewart and Michael

Xhafer:

Doran, I think were on it and stuff.

Xhafer:

Out of makeup, in street clothes, reading books to me as a child.

Xhafer:

And I also was watching Star Trek as it was Eric at the time too, and

Xhafer:

just seeing them in street clothes on the bridge as like a seven year

Xhafer:

old, maybe six, broke my mind.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

It, it's, it's, it's really bizarre.

YumYum:

It's like when I first saw Leonard Nemoy without the ears in something

YumYum:

else, I was like, oh, you you look different in Colombo, Leonard

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well, with that we can go ahead and start getting into this episode.

Xhafer:

We've got season three, episode 21, shadow Dancing.

Xhafer:

We open on another one of these ominous Z minus 10 days now.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

So as we call it zed minus 10

YumYum:

days

Xhafer:

yes,

Laura:

there's one of those Australian words,

YumYum:

Yes.

YumYum:

Words.

YumYum:

it's a

Laura:

I suppose.

YumYum:

actually.

YumYum:

Yes.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

It's just

Xhafer:

we're the weird ones there.

Xhafer:

Laura

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

You are the weird ones.

YumYum:

We're we're talking the, uh, the

YumYum:

king's English

Laura:

Well, let's,

Xhafer:

Even the Canadians.

Laura:

let's just not try to measure anything on

Laura:

this podcast episode So, in this opening, Dylan is yelling at the league.

Laura:

She's trying to get as many ships as she can, right?

Laura:

They're, but they're not gonna tell them where they're going.

Laura:

I think this is a interesting, bold move.

YumYum:

They can't trust them.

YumYum:

Have you ever been able to trust the league of non-aligned worlds?

YumYum:

I mean, the guy she's arguing with a season or two ago

YumYum:

was fighting over colors for

Laura:

Yeah, true.

YumYum:

She's right.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

And

Laura:

need

Laura:

your stuff.

Laura:

Mm.

Xhafer:

Yeah,

YumYum:

The more people that know a secret, the less of a secret it is.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Well, yes, . Very true.

Laura:

I, I noticed in the scene, it seems like she's wearing that Ranger one coat, right?

YumYum:

Yeah.

Laura:

her get handed.

Laura:

She's actually got it on.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

She's like, I'm here as a representative of the Rangers.

YumYum:

I'm not just, yeah, I'm not ambassador.

YumYum:

She's range one isn't, she's range one.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

at the same time as we get this scene we cut over to Sheridan going over

Xhafer:

the final finer details of the exact same plan with Ivanova and Marcus, and it is

Xhafer:

a grim outlook for the white star here.

YumYum:

hmm.

Xhafer:

They say 50 50 chance of making it back, which is not good.

Xhafer:

Either they will or they won't.

YumYum:

But it won't stop Marcus from uh, clipping.

YumYum:

No, that's, that's necessary.

YumYum:

If he, if he's in his final hours, he's gotta get all of those quips out, baby.

YumYum:

Yeah, he's, he's in his range outfit.

YumYum:

He has a pocket that he just unfilled like a massive amount, like a scroll

YumYum:

from that has all of his quips that he's written down over the years.

YumYum:

And he's gonna use each one of them before he goes.

YumYum:

And a bono's just gonna cry into teeth down to the.

YumYum:

Does it expand out further like the pike does to you?

YumYum:

Oh, yes.

YumYum:

Yes, that's exactly it.

YumYum:

He pushes a button and just a scroll pops out like the pike.

YumYum:

Just unfill.

YumYum:

It's like a firework.

Xhafer:

Those are real.

Xhafer:

Now, by the way,

YumYum:

Yes.

Xhafer:

those collapsible staffs, I do not need one and should not

Xhafer:

have one for a number of reasons.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

. Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

doesn't stop you from wanting one though, does it?

YumYum:

And he says this as he looks on Amazon for One Ink fighting Pike.

YumYum:

Is it Pike?

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Need one.

Xhafer:

yeah.

Xhafer:

We go to theme after this and when we come back, the league is in it's the,

Xhafer:

the scene's kind of set up to make you think that the answer is no before

Laura:

It's a fake

Xhafer:

is said.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

YumYum:

It's a fun fake out though.

YumYum:

I love the cinematography in this particular scene.

YumYum:

It's also just a striking image to see the council chambers just virtually empty.

YumYum:

It's just these two and uh, I don't remember which particular actor it is

YumYum:

that's playing this Jari cuz there's a few different tarzi ambassador

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

But he's great.

YumYum:

He's great.

YumYum:

And I dunno what it is.

YumYum:

This episode in particular, whoever was the director of it was like, I

YumYum:

wanna show off the makeup because there's lots of closeup shots of

YumYum:

these actors in the alien makeup.

YumYum:

It's like glory shots of like, look how good our makeup is.

YumYum:

And you know what?

YumYum:

The Pac mirror earlier, it wiggled his little tens looked great.

YumYum:

Love it.

YumYum:

This guy

Xhafer:

one wasn't a Adam, was it?

Xhafer:

No, that's Next episode directed by Adam

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

. Probably, I don't remember.

YumYum:

David j.

YumYum:

Eagle or, or somebody, the usual contenders.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

So Marcus and Ivanova head off.

Xhafer:

and we get a little bit, uh, make God stand between you and

Xhafer:

harm and all the places you must walk, all the empty places.

Xhafer:

Uh, I was under the impression that Ivanova was God.

Xhafer:

So maybe this is just directed to Marcus

YumYum:

Yes.

YumYum:

I mean, that makes sense too in their dynamic that she, she is the power and

YumYum:

he's the subservient one, so he needs to know who's, who's the top dog here?

Laura:

Oh, he knows.

Laura:

He's fine

Laura:

with it.

Xhafer:

is well aware.

YumYum:

he likes it.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

After this Garibaldi and Zach West Wing while talking

Xhafer:

about Franklin to remind us of his status before we cut over to him.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Does this scene strike anybody else's particularly sad?

Laura:

considering the Fs of both actors, Jeff

Laura:

Conaway

Laura:

and Jerry Doyle.

YumYum:

I actually feel sa sad on a character level because I love Zach

YumYum:

Allen, and I think Jeff Conway does a really marvelous job with very little

YumYum:

given here because there are these moments where he's saying the, oh, he's

YumYum:

gotta get his head screwed on straight.

YumYum:

And uh, you gotta let him do it on his own.

YumYum:

But even then with those lines, you see Jeff just have these momentary

YumYum:

pauses and looks on his face of like, even I don't believe that fully.

YumYum:

Like, just before the scene ends he walks towards the doorway, stops, turns back and

YumYum:

looks, and almost is contemplating saying something and then just does the Zack

YumYum:

Allen thing of, eh, it's not my place.

YumYum:

I'm just gonna walk on.

YumYum:

I'm just, who am I?

YumYum:

Who am I?

YumYum:

I'm just Zach Allen.

YumYum:

I'm just a, I'm just your average cop.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I gotta go to get a bagel.

YumYum:

Bye.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Do cops eat bagels in Australia?

Xhafer:

Is that a

Xhafer:

stereotype?

YumYum:

I mean, does, does he not look like a bagel man?

Xhafer:

I mean,

Xhafer:

Jeff Conway.

Xhafer:

Yes.

Xhafer:

. YumYum: Zach

Xhafer:

Allen

YumYum:

definitely.

YumYum:

Hey, we know he is a pizza man.

YumYum:

He's a pizza man.

YumYum:

That's a fact.

YumYum:

That's confirmed.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I don't know.

YumYum:

You know what?

YumYum:

You got me.

YumYum:

What's, what's Zach Allen's snack of choice?

Laura:

Hmm?

YumYum:

I don't think a bagels as being a snack.

YumYum:

I don't know.

YumYum:

It's something, it's not a fullon meal.

YumYum:

I'm not gonna say like, oh yeah, that's lumps like people have them for breakfast

YumYum:

or cream cheese and salmon or, yeah.

YumYum:

But sometimes cops get these things just as a snack to boost their spirits.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

I mean, Zach

Xhafer:

Allen strikes me as the type who would eat a whole sleeve of saltine crackers.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

He was just like uh, day before payday man, he has a, that's all I have.

YumYum:

He has a Kavanaugh in his pocket.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's, he's definitely a paycheck to paycheck, man.

Laura:

Yeah, for sure.

Xhafer:

After this, we cut over to down below and we get some fucking tourists.

YumYum:

It, it's hard for me to not think of that woman as a Karen,

YumYum:

even though she is called Barbara.

YumYum:

She gives such Karen vibes.

YumYum:

She, and it's just like these people have always existed.

YumYum:

They have

Xhafer:

She's actually a pundit from Fox News.

Xhafer:

You can't tell me otherwise.

YumYum:

Now, I loved her lines of dialogue because obviously you're

YumYum:

focusing on the scene where it's about, this little girl has dropped her off,

YumYum:

Jesse, and it's gone over to Franklin.

YumYum:

And it's like this ironic thing of, Hey, watch out.

YumYum:

You don't know where he's been.

YumYum:

And it's like, well, actually he was the chief medical officer of Babylon five.

YumYum:

Like that's the thing.

YumYum:

But I just could not help but keep listening to the dialogue.

YumYum:

She kept spouting during the scene where it's supposed to be in the background.

YumYum:

So good.

YumYum:

And it was hilarious.

YumYum:

And I just love the husband.

YumYum:

This, this.

YumYum:

Absolutely.

YumYum:

Every time you come back from your mother's, she reads

YumYum:

trash That's Oh, she reads.

YumYum:

She reads trash.

YumYum:

She reads trash.

YumYum:

Um, He's fixed the economy.

YumYum:

That's good enough for me.

YumYum:

I don't know if you know too much about this actress by any chance.

YumYum:

Cause I had to look her up because this is, she's, she's weird.

YumYum:

And I found out she was one of the original founding members or one of the

YumYum:

original members of the Groundlings.

YumYum:

So the improv uh, troupe.

YumYum:

And that makes sense cuz I wonder if she's improvising lines here because it

YumYum:

could be, or it could just be jms who like, I, I've written some funny stuff.

YumYum:

Just be wacky, but who knows?

Xhafer:

Given how little improvisation it was typically allowed on Babylon five.

Xhafer:

It is.

Xhafer:

That is a good

YumYum:

It's also weird that they got like an improv person, like one of the founding

YumYum:

ground links just to be a wacky character.

Laura:

I know that they're supposed to be husband and wife.

Laura:

It's obvious from the dialogue, but she has big mom energy.

Laura:

Like she's acting like his mother

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

You saying she's a mommy in the relationship

Laura:

yeah.

Laura:

. It's, it's very awkward.

Laura:

Um, this scene is where my husband paused for a second for me to write

Laura:

some notes and he turns to me and.

Laura:

What happened to that machine that heals everyone?

Laura:

You know, the thing that healed everyone, like, couldn't that be useful right now,

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

was like, yeah.

Laura:

What did happen to that machine?

Laura:

Hmm.

YumYum:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Hmm.

YumYum:

I know they used it that one time to save Gary Baldy,

YumYum:

so, so I think it's done right.

YumYum:

? It's, it's in the, uh, Raiders of, yeah.

YumYum:

The Raiders of, yeah.

YumYum:

It's, it's too dangerous to be used again.

YumYum:

We all know this.

Laura:

we haven't, we haven't studied it enough to

YumYum:

it's just

YumYum:

in the back somewhere.

Xhafer:

catastrophic if someone were to use it, they, they might not survive.

Xhafer:

We just can't,

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Maybe we put it down on Epsilon three.

YumYum:

So nobody's tempted by it so that it's not a security risk of somebody just

YumYum:

finding it and using it unsupervised.

YumYum:

No,

YumYum:

it's, uh, Dr.

YumYum:

Hernandez and Lillian Hobbs are playing with the knobs.

YumYum:

They're just twiddling with it.

YumYum:

. That's where they, those characters are

YumYum:

Whenever they're not on screen you are saying, where are they?

YumYum:

They're playing with the life fishing machine.

YumYum:

They're researching.

YumYum:

They're

Xhafer:

Lillian Hobbs all over

YumYum:

I am, I was thinking, I was gonna ask is why are there like earth

YumYum:

tourists, some Babylon five when it's broken away from the Earth and

YumYum:

like, why is this scene happening?

Laura:

And she mentions it.

Laura:

She says they shouldn't have broken away.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

There weren't poor people in down below before they broke away from Earth.

Laura:

Yeah, no

YumYum:

just such a weird detail.

Xhafer:

James actually addressed that on Usenet cuz someone complained about that.

Xhafer:

And it's all.

Xhafer:

Well, you can be a tourist in countries at the, like now with the US passport,

Xhafer:

you can go to countries that the US doesn't recognize as legitimate countries.

Xhafer:

You are physically able of traveling.

Xhafer:

You just might have some trouble.

YumYum:

Yeah, I just find it amusing.

YumYum:

It's like if you went to North Korea and then walked around with your hands

YumYum:

on your hips saying these stupid North Koreans and they're silly government, why

YumYum:

would they not abide by American values?

YumYum:

Like that's what

YumYum:

she's doing.

Xhafer:

And one of the most dangerous places of the station.

Xhafer:

Just,

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

They're lucky it was Franklin, but they have a brochure.

YumYum:

Mm, yeah.

YumYum:

. So they're allowed to be there.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Well, yeah.

YumYum:

Somebody printed a brochure that explained down below and gave directions.

YumYum:

That makes sense.

YumYum:

What makes it even funny is thinking about this husband and wife booking

YumYum:

their, their, their vacation here.

YumYum:

They're sitting at home bickering about like, no, I want to go to this place.

YumYum:

No, we're going to Babylon.

YumYum:

Five.

YumYum:

Why Barbara, you don't want to go this?

YumYum:

Okay.

YumYum:

Cause I wanna laugh at the homeless.

YumYum:

See, for me, it doesn't read as if.

YumYum:

They've gone to Babylon five for their holiday.

YumYum:

It reads as a pit stop.

YumYum:

Oh.

YumYum:

Like they were going somewhere else

Xhafer:

The shuttle got canceled.

Xhafer:

They're on way over.

YumYum:

mm-hmm.

YumYum:

or like, they're just on their way back and since like, they went to a place

YumYum:

that still recognizes Babylon five.

YumYum:

Like, mm.

YumYum:

I dba or they went to San Tori Prime.

YumYum:

I would've loved to see these freaks at Miba.

YumYum:

Yes.

YumYum:

That would've been great.

YumYum:

And they're like, well, we're, we're gonna stop here cuz this is the transfer point.

YumYum:

I, they're on Miba and they're looking at all the triangles that

YumYum:

Miba have and they're like, what is with these freaks and their triangles?

YumYum:

Are those things haven't changed in centuries?

YumYum:

Are those bones on their heads or little hats?

YumYum:

I cannot fathom.

YumYum:

Look, jms make this a whole show about these two characters.

YumYum:

That's what Cru says.

YumYum:

Crusade

YumYum:

should have

Xhafer:

the reboot.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

Oh, I would love, like if like Babylon five was coming out,

YumYum:

like during the late naughties and you got those web series.

YumYum:

Oh yeah.

YumYum:

The little web episodes I like of their adventures.

YumYum:

I would've killed for that.

Xhafer:

That sounds great.

Xhafer:

Honestly, maybe that's what you do instead of uh, and now for a word from

Xhafer:

you, do you do a whole episode from this perspective?

YumYum:

From the tourists,

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

just traveling around the world.

Xhafer:

Jerry Seinfeld.

Xhafer:

What's with all the triangles?

Xhafer:

It'd be hilarious.

Xhafer:

You're right.

YumYum:

Richard a's Travel Man on Babylon.

YumYum:

Five He's there with some IR referent British comedian,

YumYum:

and they're both unimpressed.

YumYum:

Oh, no.

YumYum:

Like they're the travels with my dad, but it's travels with

YumYum:

my mom and it's the two of them.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

He's like, I'm actually her husband.

YumYum:

I, I not the vibe.

YumYum:

I know.

YumYum:

I, I can't imagine jsu there going, wow.

YumYum:

I didn't expect anyone to get so much mileage out of these

YumYum:

two background characters that hammer in a very obvious theme.

YumYum:

, this is what you get when you get improv act.

Xhafer:

so after this we get another account down on our

Xhafer:

ticker Zed minus six days.

Xhafer:

That

Xhafer:

was for both of us.

Xhafer:

of

Xhafer:

you.

YumYum:

Thank you.

Xhafer:

Uh,

Xhafer:

Marcus here is the guy in your college dorm who flirted in French

Xhafer:

all the time, but lied about what he was actually saying.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

It is, it is awkward as hell.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

No.

YumYum:

You didn't find it, it was just like, did you think that she would never find

YumYum:

out what you actually said, or were you counting on her not remembering?

YumYum:

Or did you think it was gonna be impressive when she did find out that

YumYum:

you, you lied about it, but you didn't majorly lie about it at the same time?

YumYum:

Like when he explains what it means, it's like, oh, okay.

YumYum:

Okay.

YumYum:

Like I kind of, I kind of get that version of the translation.

YumYum:

You are being a little bit euphemistic here.

YumYum:

He's basic.

YumYum:

The thing that drives me up the wall is he says this beautiful,

YumYum:

like, I love you thing in Minbar.

YumYum:

We get the subtitles, well the few times we get the subtitles and Babylon

YumYum:

and five's like, ooh, very special.

YumYum:

But then he is asked to explain what he said and he.

YumYum:

Almost says what he actually said in Minbar.

YumYum:

And she's like, well, that's an odd thing to say.

YumYum:

It's like, well, they're odd people.

YumYum:

That's not odd greeting.

YumYum:

Like it's one of those where it's like he didn't lie enough . No, it's like

YumYum:

he didn't fully commit because then that would be against his values, but

YumYum:

he doesn't wanna go fully in either.

YumYum:

And it's so frustrating.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I think in his mind how this plays out is she starts taking Imbar lessons from

Xhafer:

him and on the year anniversary of him saying this, he finally teaches her

Xhafer:

what it means, and then they make out.

Xhafer:

That's how it's playing out in his

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

That sounds like a Star Trek, Picard plot, Rolins only tell the

YumYum:

people they love their real name.

YumYum:

Like, ugh.

YumYum:

But no, I, I dunno.

YumYum:

I think Jason Carter we're making fun, but I think Jason Carter just has that

YumYum:

pitch, perfect amount of awkwardness and gentleman manner and just actual

YumYum:

sweetness where you know, as somebody who's a bit cynical to, to romances,

YumYum:

especially in my sci-fi shows, I watch this scene and I go, oh, you know what?

YumYum:

He, he's, he, he's, he's playing, he's playing the game.

YumYum:

But I mean, we all have to, when we're trying to court somebody, just the fact

YumYum:

that he manages to still give virgin vibes while being that sexy, I find impressive.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

he's a theater kid.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

, it comes with the territory,

Xhafer:

and then we get a, the bit about the bed.

Xhafer:

I, I laughed out loud.

Xhafer:

This is hilarious.

Xhafer:

The just Iva can't sleep on this incline.

Xhafer:

She keeps sliding down.

Xhafer:

She manages to get it a little bit, lays down, it tilts a bit more,

Xhafer:

and she slides off the other end

Xhafer:

chef's.

YumYum:

You could, you could feel they wanted to do a little bit of comedy music

YumYum:

there, but B five doesn't do that anymore.

YumYum:

They're told not to do anymore comedy music.

YumYum:

I'll throw it off for a second.

YumYum:

Cause I thought you were referring to the part where he is like,

YumYum:

I like four poster beds too.

YumYum:

And I thought you were saying that.

YumYum:

You laughed at that.

YumYum:

And I was like, oh, that's a big look.

YumYum:

Look, I did laugh at that.

Laura:

I'd be same

YumYum:

say.

YumYum:

Now I wanna ask, what version are you watching for Babylon?

YumYum:

Five.

YumYum:

We are watching this on the DVDs because down here in Australia,

YumYum:

we don't have all of the services that has the new HD remaster.

YumYum:

So are you watching it on, on Tubi or whatever it is.

Xhafer:

Neither of us are actually I'm watching on Voodoo where I purchased

Xhafer:

the series before it was made available on HBO Max a couple years ago.

Xhafer:

So I got upgraded to the remaster for free, which was awesome.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

and then Laura, you're watching on Apple tv?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

We bought it on Apple tv.

YumYum:

So is it in the old ratio, the square, the four by three.

Xhafer:

Yes.

YumYum:

So interesting about having it on DVD v D in the 16 by nine is you

YumYum:

get to see one of the crew members' hands grab Claudia Christian's head

YumYum:

and gently bring it down to the ground because that's a piece of fun.

YumYum:

That's a piece of fun.

Laura:

Well, I'm glad someone was looking out for her.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Um,

YumYum:

safe

Xhafer:

I I have a question for the group here as well.

Xhafer:

Related to this, what is the most uncomfortable place you've ever slept?

Xhafer:

I, I do mean physically.

Xhafer:

I want to clarify that The most

YumYum:

mentally.

YumYum:

Oh, right, . Um, well, here's a story where Ryan gets to

YumYum:

complain about my family.

YumYum:

Go ahead Ryan.

YumYum:

Oh, I don't know.

YumYum:

Oh, yes.

YumYum:

When we were ready to get, when we were uh, about to get married, we went

YumYum:

back to Rachel's hometown area while staying at her mother's new place.

YumYum:

And her mom had a uh, fold out couch.

YumYum:

Was it futon?

YumYum:

A futon.

YumYum:

And it did not fit both of us.

YumYum:

So I was, It was lumpy as all hell.

YumYum:

Lumpy as all hell.

YumYum:

I was almost like pressed up against the side of it.

YumYum:

So it's like the, the armchair, like the arms, part of the, this couch was

YumYum:

just on my neck and I'm like dying.

YumYum:

And then I'm having to roll on the floor.

YumYum:

But then even Rachel later in the night rolled on top of me on the

YumYum:

floor because even she couldn't get comfortable in this bed.

YumYum:

And I'm like, is this gonna be my marriage?

YumYum:

Is this it?

YumYum:

Is this it?

YumYum:

I actually thought there was a time in university, we were at a friend's house

YumYum:

and they only had one single mattress there and it was on like a bunk bed.

YumYum:

So we were on the lower bunk and there was not enough room for either of us.

YumYum:

And I was also pressed up against a wall, like a gecko climbing a wall.

YumYum:

That was a weird night.

Xhafer:

I've slept?

Xhafer:

in bathtubs a couple of times.

YumYum:

Which side?

YumYum:

Which end is your head on though?

YumYum:

Tap side.

Xhafer:

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Xhafer:

That's, no, that's how you wake up and hit your head.

Xhafer:

No,

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

It's, it's feet and, but then you have the option of the, the best

YumYum:

bathtub is when to sleep in is one where the tap's in the middle.

YumYum:

True.

Laura:

When I was in college, . I fell asleep in a bar on

Laura:

Frenchman Street in New Orleans,

Laura:

and I, this was not a like too many drinks situation.

Laura:

Okay.

Laura:

I was underage because everyone in New Orleans assumed that

Laura:

because I was tall, I was over 21.

Laura:

Uh, Even though I've been this height since I was 16, whatever, you know, I had

Laura:

one drink, but it was very late and I am a sleepy person, And so there was a bench

Laura:

and I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna lay on this bench for a minute.

Laura:

And one of my friends was sitting next to me and they just kind of took

Laura:

turns making sure somebody sat next to me while I slept on this bench.

Laura:

And,

Laura:

you know,

Laura:

a

Xhafer:

I, I slept under a bench in an airport once.

Xhafer:

But I did have too much to drink.

Xhafer:

So I was flying home.

Xhafer:

I was at LaGuardia Airport in New York, and my flight had gotten delayed,

Xhafer:

delayed, delayed, and then canceled.

Xhafer:

And while it was getting delayed, it's all like, okay, well I know I'm

Xhafer:

capping home from the airport, so I'm gonna have a drink at the bar.

Xhafer:

Just waste of time, like delayed again, I'll have another drink.

Xhafer:

So I ended up getting like a couple in and uh, then it gets canceled.

Xhafer:

But my rescheduled flight is for like five 30 in the morning and it

Xhafer:

is like 1130, midnight or something.

Xhafer:

And so I'm like, oh, well it's at the same gate.

Xhafer:

I already know that.

Xhafer:

So I just got under the bench and took a nap,

Xhafer:

and uh, security woke me up about four, kicked me out of the terminal

Xhafer:

so that they could clean it.

Xhafer:

And then I went to a hotel lobby for an hour nearby, hung out, and then

Xhafer:

cabbed back to the airport to fly home.

YumYum:

Now you

YumYum:

met John Candy

YumYum:

and went on a cross country adventure that changed your life forever.

YumYum:

Kevin Bacon stole your cab.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I have also one at my mom's house, oddly enough, where it was that same

YumYum:

futon, but I was there on my own.

YumYum:

So instead of sleeping on the futon, I just laid blankets on the floor and

YumYum:

I had to sleep like that for a week.

YumYum:

Well, that's what a vva tried to do.

YumYum:

She, cause she got all the little triangle pillows and laid them as a little bed,

YumYum:

which I thought was ingenious by the way.

YumYum:

I was like, that looks comfortable.

YumYum:

Actually, let me do that.

YumYum:

My other one though, it was, it's.

YumYum:

The, the aftermath of it that makes it uncomfortable.

YumYum:

Oh yeah.

YumYum:

Which was, I was I had a swag, which are either of you familiar

YumYum:

with the idea of a swag?

YumYum:

No.

Xhafer:

Those are like corporate freebies here.

Xhafer:

That's what that word

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

,they play disc golf.

YumYum:

They don't know what you're talking about.

YumYum:

What is this?

YumYum:

Camping?

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

It's a, it's a piece of camping equipment.

YumYum:

It's like you have the like foam mattress and you, you're bedding and

YumYum:

you zip it all up in a sort of like bag.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

. Yeah.

YumYum:

It's a full, it's a, it's a bag mattress basically.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Um, So then you can just roll out your swag and then all of your

YumYum:

bedding and your stuff is in it.

YumYum:

Is in it ready to go.

YumYum:

and then you can like zip it up as a, like an extra sleeping

YumYum:

bag sort of thing as well.

YumYum:

Franklin, should you have one of those on him?

YumYum:

Yeah, that would make sense.

YumYum:

That would

YumYum:

make sense.

YumYum:

Um,

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

so I was out staying with my dad and we were staying at my uncle's place

YumYum:

and he had this house that was like, had been abandoned on his property and we

YumYum:

were sleeping in the abandoned house that had no electricity but are ghosts, No.

YumYum:

So we got there at like, I know I think it was like 1230 at night.

YumYum:

So I was having to roll out this swag in the dark in this

YumYum:

room of this abandoned house.

YumYum:

And then I'm like hearing crunching and I'm like, I'm too tired.

YumYum:

No , too tired for this.

YumYum:

Too tired for this.

YumYum:

And then, so I was sleeping on the swag, which was fairly comfortable,

YumYum:

but it was creepy being in an abandoned house essentially with

YumYum:

crunching under you that you were like, I'm not gonna investigate that.

YumYum:

Yeah, yeah.

YumYum:

And then I kind of forgot about it.

YumYum:

And then I was rolling up the swag a couple of days later when

YumYum:

we were leaving, and then I was like, ah, that's a rat skeleton.

YumYum:

I've been sleeping on

YumYum:

. Yay

Laura:

Oh.

Laura:

man.

YumYum:

Fully just bones for, for the listener out there, you're

YumYum:

missing out on the video experience because Laura's soul left her body.

YumYum:

Then it just, it just left.

YumYum:

It just said goodbye.

YumYum:

I'm going into a soul Hunter's bowl now.

YumYum:

Being kept over Morgan Shepherd.

YumYum:

So I think that's probably one of my worst sleeping experiences.

YumYum:

True

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

I was afraid it was going in the, the like snake or large spider

Laura:

direction, because that's one of the few things I know about your country.

YumYum:

Yeah, yeah,

YumYum:

yeah.

YumYum:

We have those.

YumYum:

Oh, no.

YumYum:

Oh no.

YumYum:

That the huts were on the wall.

YumYum:

It was fine.

YumYum:

The spiders

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah, Where you can see them?

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

And they can see you.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

husman

Xhafer:

get how any of you live in climates where the bugs get

Xhafer:

bigger than like two inches,

YumYum:

They're friendly bugs if you don't annoy them.

Xhafer:

No thanks.

Xhafer:

back to the episode, we do mirror mirror.

Xhafer:

A little bit of this with Yvanova's sleeping situation is Dalen states her

Xhafer:

intention to watch Sheridan's sleep.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

An indecent proposal.

Xhafer:

I would not be okay.

Xhafer:

Like if I was in love with someone and this was culturally important

Xhafer:

to them, I could probably deal, but it's not gonna go well.

Xhafer:

Like it, one is a concept, this creeps me out.

Xhafer:

But also I've been told multiple times that I occasionally

Xhafer:

sleep with my eyes open.

YumYum:

Nice.

YumYum:

Mm.

Xhafer:

so I can only imagine what the experience would be like for it to have

Xhafer:

someone to watch me sleep like that.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

It's

Xhafer:

one wants this.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

,your true face is saying,

Xhafer:

My true face is just like,

YumYum:

Look, this isn't the, the.

YumYum:

This isn't the weirdest minbar ceremony we'll get, there will be plenty of

YumYum:

weirder ones that involve people.

YumYum:

Uh, Also eves dropping on certain uh, physical things.

YumYum:

It's not even eaves dropping cuz Eves dropping suggests some level

YumYum:

of you don't know they're there.

YumYum:

Minbar let's, yeah, let's have a freak.

YumYum:

Never forget all of this minbar stuff is because Sinclair wrote the book on this.

YumYum:

This is Sinclair's.

YumYum:

I blame him.

YumYum:

This is Sinclair's fault.

YumYum:

I don't some of their traditions predate Valin.

YumYum:

No, but all of their things are like, Valin made this

YumYum:

rule because Sinclair fucked.

YumYum:

He was a freak.

YumYum:

He was a kinky boy.

YumYum:

He had frictionless sheets and he wants us to look at each other as we sleep.

YumYum:

liked to

Xhafer:

The frictionless sheets.

Xhafer:

Oh no, you just slide right off the bed.

Xhafer:

What's the point?

YumYum:

He is the

YumYum:

point.

Xhafer:

can't grip.

YumYum:

He, he has the point.

YumYum:

He, he doesn't make you fall off the bed because he's fucking you

YumYum:

so hard on it that you stay there.

YumYum:

He's he's a, he's a he.

YumYum:

Yeah, he's, he's a monster.

Xhafer:

We're okay.

Xhafer:

What happens?

Xhafer:

Franklin gets mugged.

Xhafer:

That's what

Laura:

Yes.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

He go, He hears somebody screaming or like being attacked in some way,

YumYum:

and he jumps into action to be this superhero and gets himself stabbed.

YumYum:

My my favorite part of this is our good dear friend and the guest that

YumYum:

we had on this particular discussion on our podcast, said that the best

YumYum:

character in the episode is the, the guy's friend, the one who stabs him.

YumYum:

The guy's friend who's like, Hey, why did you do that?

YumYum:

Man, you are so crazy.

YumYum:

Sometimes it's like, what's their relationship?

YumYum:

Yeah, it's

YumYum:

an

Xhafer:

a web

YumYum:

question.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

What's he, what I mean, what's his life like?

YumYum:

He gets up in the morning and having to worry that my

YumYum:

friend may step someone today.

YumYum:

I live with that.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I'm still in business with him though.

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

mm-hmm.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

not gonna cut ties like he gets the job done.

YumYum:

The best part of it is Franklin does that noble thing.

YumYum:

I'll step in and I'll save this guy and then the guy he saves turns around

YumYum:

and just says, ah, I'm gonna leave you to die because I was selling drugs.

YumYum:

Goodbye.

YumYum:

I'm not gonna send anybody in your direction because

YumYum:

that's too much of a risk.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

YumYum:

to send somebody else.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

he'll investigate me,

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

you know, AAB, I guess.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

So yeah, he gets stabbed and left alone to commercial and when we

Xhafer:

come back the blood loss is bad as Franklin is still screaming for help.

YumYum:

Very funny moment where he looks at his blood covered hand

YumYum:

and says, oh no, this is not good.

YumYum:

And I'm like, is that a medical opinion?

YumYum:

Franklin

Laura:

he's a doctor.

Laura:

He would know.

Laura:

I mean,

Xhafer:

he's got a bad history when it comes to self-diagnosis, so he should

Laura:

oh,

YumYum:

He does.

YumYum:

It annoys me.

YumYum:

It annoys me that he just uses his hand to put pressure on the wound.

YumYum:

Like you're wearing a jacket, Franklin, he's, but he's cold.

YumYum:

It's before he gets cold even.

YumYum:

No, no.

YumYum:

Down below is just a bit chilly.

YumYum:

That's why everyone's wearing rags and warming their hands at trashcan fires.

YumYum:

Remember that?

YumYum:

Remember that scene in one of the previous episodes where we

YumYum:

saw them have a trashcan fire?

YumYum:

I, I do.

YumYum:

I do.

YumYum:

And I believe that that comes back at least a couple more times.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

There's no heat, I guess.

Laura:

And down below space is cold

YumYum:

Yeah, but like the more you bleed out, the less pressure you're

YumYum:

gonna be able to put on your own wound.

YumYum:

Look, Franklin Franklin's not Indoctor mode at the moment.

YumYum:

Don't worry.

YumYum:

A version of that will come shortly for him.

Xhafer:

We cut over to Yvanova, who has made herself that bat

Xhafer:

out of the triangle pillows.

Xhafer:

But as soon as she lays down, Marcus calls her to the bridge as

Xhafer:

they found a shadow scout ship.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

This is what they were here for.

Laura:

They were to scout and watch.

Laura:

Right.

Xhafer:

yeah,

YumYum:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

been there

Laura:

So,

Xhafer:

per our Zed countdown.

Laura:

yeah.

YumYum:

true.

Xhafer:

So we know uh, Sheridan Dilen arrive on a Imbar cruiser and everyone

Xhafer:

starts heading in for the battle.

Xhafer:

Dylann takes Sheridan to the tactical center of the ship, which is totally

Xhafer:

not just the gray council set.

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

no.

YumYum:

It's

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

This is the tactical center,

YumYum:

Uh, I like how you say it.

YumYum:

Totally different lights.

YumYum:

Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

YumYum:

I like how we say it is a gray council set.

YumYum:

Like it's a set and not, it's just a, it's just a black voice.

YumYum:

It's not just a black room with a light . Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

it's,

YumYum:

like, it's,

Xhafer:

chandelier thing.

YumYum:

oh, the cgc she Italy.

YumYum:

It's the same set as the inquisitive set as well.

YumYum:

If we want to go there, like, I just love our B five.

YumYum:

It's very uh, practical.

YumYum:

It's like we only have 14 walls that, and we're gonna have

YumYum:

to make 78 sets out of this.

YumYum:

And you know what?

YumYum:

God bless 'em.

YumYum:

They do it.

YumYum:

Sometimes they'll cut to like, here's Cent Prime and it's just a

YumYum:

bunch of curtains , where's like, they've recreated Centi Prime on Na.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

It's totally not the same set guys.

YumYum:

It's totally not the same set.

YumYum:

It's totally not the same set.

YumYum:

It's not the same set.

YumYum:

But I mean, even Deep Space Nine did that too.

YumYum:

It's like, look, it's Kardashian.

YumYum:

You could tell because there's curtains.

YumYum:

It's like, yeah, the Kardashians are curtain people.

YumYum:

I believe that.

Laura:

and it's, it's kind of orange, you know, it's kind of one color that

Laura:

we know that this planet is Yeah,

Xhafer:

We go back over to Franklin, who visits anybody, canyon.

Xhafer:

And then he finally meets himself

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Mm,

Xhafer:

and, and he is a smug asshole to himself, so at least he's consistent.

Xhafer:

We

YumYum:

yes.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I call this one mean Franklin cuz I'm really original.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Evil Franklin?

YumYum:

No Franklin He's the evil German Franklin

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

I like it.

YumYum:

He's in the black uniform too.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

..Yeah.

Xhafer:

They've, you know, not like they're gonna do another outfit for him.

Xhafer:

He's only got the one Cosby esque sweater.

Xhafer:

He wears a couple times when he is off duty.

YumYum:

I'm gonna argue.

YumYum:

No, no argument started.

YumYum:

Now, Franklin, when.

YumYum:

Out of uniform is a fucking snappy dresser.

YumYum:

But the problem is we don't see him out of scrubs or uniform all that often.

YumYum:

No.

YumYum:

Go back to Soul Hunter.

YumYum:

He rocks up in this big jacket with a sexy scarf and like a, a button up shirt.

YumYum:

And I'm like, who's this guy?

YumYum:

Oh boy, I can't wait to see this lady's man.

YumYum:

And then they put him in the scrubs and he's too busy being sad.

YumYum:

. I, I don't mind the amount that we get shirtless Franklin instead

YumYum:

my favorite Franklin outfit.

YumYum:

Shirtless.

Xhafer:

Worth noting today of the day of recording is actually

Xhafer:

Richard Big's birthday as well.

YumYum:

Yes.

Laura:

It's a really sh a shame that he died so young, like.

YumYum:

He was the first to go.

Laura:

I, I think that's right.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

He was the first cast member to

YumYum:

unfortunately leave us and uh, yeah, we will.

Laura:

my husband and I were talking about it over dinner and I was like,

Laura:

I, you know, I really feel like as an actor, he could have been doing

Laura:

more, you know, in the odds and in the last few years, even like as an older

Laura:

actor if, if he hadn't passed away.

Laura:

Unfortunately,

YumYum:

It's, it's strange that one of his last performances is uh, Drake and

YumYum:

Josh, where he played the f in FBI agent.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

And the episode's dedicated to him.

YumYum:

And it's just like really surreal because it's like, oh, that's Dr.

YumYum:

He was actually going to be a main character in uh, another medical

YumYum:

drama where one of the lead actors is Corwin from Babylon five.

YumYum:

He was a recurring character in that, and they planned for him to

YumYum:

be like a season long mainstay.

YumYum:

But then he passed away unfortunately.

YumYum:

So, yeah.

YumYum:

You know, he had, he had a career ahead of him for sure, but mainly

YumYum:

playing doctors and authority figures.

YumYum:

But boys, he good at it.

YumYum:

Yep.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

If you got a thing that's working, , you gotta keep, make that money, right.

YumYum:

If only he was in house.

Xhafer:

He totally would

Laura:

good.

Xhafer:

show right now.

YumYum:

Oh yeah.

YumYum:

A zombie show.

YumYum:

Of

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

One of 'em, I, I don't know.

Xhafer:

the white star destroys the shadow scout ship at the cost of its engines.

Xhafer:

As the shadow fleet moves in and it's all big fleet.

Laura:

There's a lot of little

Xhafer:

This is a little shit your pants moment like we've at most seen three,

Xhafer:

maybe four shadow ships before this point, and it is just, they just keep coming.

Xhafer:

It is a ton.

YumYum:

I always appreciated that you know, you know, it's obvious

YumYum:

to point out that the effects don't hold up, but I think they look

YumYum:

pretty great nonetheless, especially in season three and season four.

YumYum:

It got better over the course of the show, but I always appreciated that they, they

YumYum:

communicate with they that they didn't.

YumYum:

B fived didn't skimp out on spaceship stuff, on, on like the spaceship battles.

YumYum:

Whenever I would watch these shows, Iya was like, oh yeah, we're gonna finally

YumYum:

have a spaceship battle and they'll leave it for that one special episode.

YumYum:

But B five, like every season, they'll sprinkle like four or five episodes

YumYum:

with like some cool ships flying around and zapping and doing stuff.

YumYum:

And they're always very creative with the shadow ships.

YumYum:

Cuz you point out like we've had the, the Army of Ninjas thing where it's like

YumYum:

one of them is deadly, but when you get an army of them, they're not so deadly.

YumYum:

But here they still manage to make a whole armada of shadow ships.

YumYum:

Very intimidating.

YumYum:

None.

Xhafer:

They have the option on the white star.

Xhafer:

They can risk sending the signal even though they can't escape knowing that the

Xhafer:

shadow ships will probably come for them.

Xhafer:

to go ahead and do that.

YumYum:

Who wants to

YumYum:

live forever?

Xhafer:

yeah.

YumYum:

Malus does actually.

YumYum:

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

YumYum:

I've got some news.

YumYum:

Uh, Well, that's for another time.

YumYum:

That's for a short story written by jms

YumYum:

A bad, bad, short story.

YumYum:

Not

Xhafer:

it is, I haven't actually read it, but I've read the synopsis

Xhafer:

of it and the plot makes me go,

YumYum:

See, I read it

Xhafer:

Cringes, the

Xhafer:

word that's being used these days.

YumYum:

Mm.

YumYum:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

It's,

YumYum:

I don't think I would've made it through if I'd read this might, look.

YumYum:

Look, my big spoiler, spoiler here, literally when we have the end credits

YumYum:

of B five, the one they have for Marcus is just some graphic saying he is in

YumYum:

cryo freeze because JMS wrote the short story and he's saying it's Cannon.

YumYum:

And I hate that.

YumYum:

Fun fact.

YumYum:

I hate that Shut up James.

Laura:

Speaking of cringe things mean Franklin is still berating

Laura:

our Franklin about his past.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

he runs away from everything.

YumYum:

and Franklin, the evil one's calling the R Franklin.

YumYum:

Hello.

YumYum:

Cringe like, Hey buddy.

YumYum:

Do you remember that awkward haircut you had when you were 12?

YumYum:

While I'm making fun of it now

Laura:

Yeah, he's like bringing up everything.

Xhafer:

every last thing.

YumYum:

he's, he's paranoia from Red Dwarf and you know, there's a

YumYum:

stain on the front of your trousers.

YumYum:

You are a loser.

YumYum:

Richard Bigs, I, I don't know how often you guys have talked about this, but

YumYum:

he's, he was one of like the actors on the show that instantly got their

YumYum:

character from the beginning, right?

YumYum:

Like, I always forget to think about Richard Biggs, the performer.

YumYum:

I always think about Franklin just as a character, and this whole entire

YumYum:

sequence is just, let's give Richard Biggs a lot of fun acting to do.

YumYum:

Cause he's having to act opposite of himself, which is always difficult, but

YumYum:

also he has to differentiate these things.

YumYum:

And both Franklins, you see how these are the two sides of the character we've

YumYum:

been experiencing throughout the show.

YumYum:

And I just, you know, we've gotta hand it to Richard Bigs for being the, the,

YumYum:

the, the cast member who I, I honestly think has been very, very consistent.

YumYum:

And, you know, he, he, he's not afraid to make the character not likable.

YumYum:

It's, it is like irrelevant to the performances.

YumYum:

Like, I'm just gonna play Franklin to the point where I forget

YumYum:

that there's even an actor.

Laura:

I think he carries off some really wild stuff with Franklin very well.

Laura:

Like if it wasn't Richard Bigs doing it, it might not have come out the way it did.

YumYum:

and he's funny.

YumYum:

Like this scene, it's very intense, but there's some funny bits here.

YumYum:

Like, oh, I'm sorry.

YumYum:

That's right.

YumYum:

You are too busy dying, aren't you?

YumYum:

Ugh, I'm so sorry to have bothered you here.

YumYum:

Or when he's standing, when he's sitting up on the thing and he like claps his

YumYum:

hands and goes, Hey, it's me, . It's like

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

he Franklin doesn't get the chance to go hammy or over the top.

YumYum:

So having a whole persona, having like a whole visage of that is just a delight.

Laura:

He's letting some stuff out.

Xhafer:

Yeah, for sure.

Xhafer:

Uh, The fleet arrives in time to start the battle before the shadow ships

Xhafer:

start a run on Ivanov's White Star.

Xhafer:

It's a very tense moment there, but.

Xhafer:

. Everyone comes in just in time.

Xhafer:

As soon as one of the shadow ships turns to engage, all the jump gates open and

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

everyone shows up.

YumYum:

That's when JMS cracked his knuckles and said, I better

YumYum:

save this before it ends.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

Franklin tells himself he'd do it all over again.

Xhafer:

All over again.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

over again.

Xhafer:

All over again.

YumYum:

all over again..

YumYum:

. He would..

YumYum:

And uh, evil Franklin just becomes his, like Franklin's dad in the scene.

YumYum:

He's like, well, if that's the case, then get up, soldier.

YumYum:

Get up though for that ground and climb up.

YumYum:

Like he just becomes Paul Winfield in that whole entire scene.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

I mean, he definitely does channel his dad a hundred percent it.

Xhafer:

That's good.

Xhafer:

This doesn't make sense to me though,

YumYum:

In what way?

Xhafer:

I don't believe that Franklin has no regrets.

YumYum:

Well, he, he does have, well, he goes into this later in his, in his

YumYum:

conversation with Sheridan later on, where he has a more crystalline view

YumYum:

of why he has come to this realization.

YumYum:

But here, it's, it is a very much like, I do want to do it all over again.

YumYum:

Like, I wanna have a second shot.

YumYum:

I think later on it'll be a, I'm not gonna do it the same.

YumYum:

I'm not gonna do I the same I was before.

YumYum:

I, I wanna, I want another chance and I'm gonna fight for it.

YumYum:

I think there's an acknowledgement that it's like, yeah, I fucked up, but I'm

YumYum:

not going to pretend that didn't happen.

YumYum:

I'm not gonna run away from, from that side of myself like I have

YumYum:

been like this whole, we'll get into it later, but the whole walk

YumYum:

about concept was just an excuse.

YumYum:

Even though he is saying he's searching for himself, he's actually

YumYum:

trying to run away from himself and here he is, confronted by the harsh

YumYum:

truth and it doesn't like him very.

Xhafer:

I just, it's that choice of words to me, like I feel like.

Xhafer:

, I don't know.

Xhafer:

You know, it's all like, I want to continue or, you know, there's, I don't

Xhafer:

just do it all again and you just keep saying it and it's just, I don't know.

Xhafer:

It didn't sit well with me.

Xhafer:

Just that particular, I don't know if it was, I don't think it was the delivery.

Xhafer:

I don't think anything could have been done to change that, if for the better.

Xhafer:

But uh, he does pull himself up and he does make his way towards the marketplace.

Xhafer:

Meanwhile, the shadow fleet fight continues and they end up retreating.

Xhafer:

So it is a victory, but a feric one we see blown up white star

Xhafer:

chunks for the first time too.

Xhafer:

Uh, I mean, it's only the, it's only the second time we've seen white stars

Xhafer:

besides our hero ship white star.

Xhafer:

. So we haven't really had . An opportunity to see chunks of white

Xhafer:

star, but I found that very jarring.

Xhafer:

Like the first time you see chunks of the enterprise or like, I think in

Xhafer:

uh, T N G, you see the emoto blow up

Xhafer:

before you see any alternate universe shenanigans Where the enterprise

Xhafer:

D

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I mean, when you see the, the, the vessel of your show explode.

YumYum:

It is very uh, visceral, visceral when it happened in t and g and the episode

YumYum:

caused and effect where the enterprise spun out, and then it exploded.

YumYum:

I was like, oh my God.

YumYum:

As a kid, I was like

Xhafer:

In the cold open

YumYum:

fucking exploded the

YumYum:

enterprise

YumYum:

then.

YumYum:

It's a time loop.

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

the enterprise

YumYum:

evacuate, evacuate, boom, it's gone.

YumYum:

And then, oh, we are back to it again.

YumYum:

I mean, and you know, we, we've seen Babylon five explode already in this

YumYum:

show as well, so the white star, I actually thought the, the image of I

YumYum:

can't remember if it's an, it's all a blur of the CGI battle sequences, but

YumYum:

there's the, one of the minbar ships explodes and the shadow ship just

YumYum:

flies right through the debris of it.

YumYum:

And that's a very v like vivid image.

YumYum:

It's also one of the thumbnails on the DVD v d.

YumYum:

It's, it's very, it's very striking.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

They did a great job with this battle.

Laura:

With all the effects.

Xhafer:

Franklin is hallucinating more as they take him to med lab and the

Xhafer:

fleet arrives back with their wounded, and then we get another minus four days.

YumYum:

Ooh,

YumYum:

zed minus

Xhafer:

Garabaldi is by Franklin's bedside.

Xhafer:

As he wakes up, Franklin tells him that he did meet himself and that himself is

Xhafer:

an asshole and he sees everyone else hurt in me lab and is like, fuck work needs.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And Franklin, I just wanna tell you, it's not your fault that

Xhafer:

Babel on five is understaffed here.

Xhafer:

Alright?

Xhafer:

Minimum staffing is only minimum when it can handle

Xhafer:

leaves, holidays, and vacations.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

If it can't, it's understaffed.

Laura:

Yep.

Xhafer:

not your responsibility to jump to work right now.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

Well, he takes his time.

YumYum:

He gives his, I like how that scene ends where him and Gar

YumYum:

bald being all buddy buddy.

YumYum:

They do the uh, we're just bros.

YumYum:

Nothing more thing of, oh, you cared about me, how sweet for you.

YumYum:

And he's like, no man.

YumYum:

I, I don't wanna lose 30 credits.

YumYum:

And they give Atu of Wink.

YumYum:

Somebody's writing some fanfic about that.

YumYum:

And I did like how he looks at the scene.

YumYum:

It looks at the carnage going on in the med lab and you're left there for a moment

YumYum:

of like, what's Franklin gonna do there?

YumYum:

Because he does sit back down and go, you know what?

YumYum:

That's happening.

YumYum:

And uh, well, we'll see how it all unfolds.

YumYum:

Yeah, he does jump in, but I have some comments about that.

YumYum:

It's interesting.

Xhafer:

I, yeah, it, I mean because we've, this is one of the few times

Xhafer:

in babble on five, we actually get a very strict timeline of

Xhafer:

the events in a single episode.

Xhafer:

Is this previous one?

Xhafer:

This one where we hit have this zed minus countdown.

Xhafer:

So it's like, sometimes it's more fluid where it's like, oh, well,

Xhafer:

you know, sometimes you just cut and it's been three weeks.

Xhafer:

We know it's been two days since he's had catastrophic blood loss to, to the

Xhafer:

point of hallucination and a stab wound.

Xhafer:

And I know that medicine is better in the future, but we've

Xhafer:

seen people almost die from less.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Well, we've seen people really die from less.

YumYum:

Oh, no.

YumYum:

I'm David Warner and I got shot in the arm.

YumYum:

I'm dead now.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Oh man.

Xhafer:

Over in Sheridan's office he discusses with Ivano and d Dalen

Xhafer:

possible defenses for the station.

Xhafer:

Now that they've made themselves a target they do go on a bit here.

Xhafer:

And it's like, well, why haven't they've attacked literally everywhere, but here

Xhafer:

there's gotta be a reason why.

Xhafer:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

Say the quiet part

YumYum:

and the

YumYum:

characters turned into j m s himself and looked at the audience

YumYum:

and said, this is deliberate.

YumYum:

There's a reason we don't know what it is yet, though, and we're gonna figure

YumYum:

it out at the end of this episode.

YumYum:

Bye.

YumYum:

Stay tuned.

YumYum:

Stay tuned.

YumYum:

Is this a scene where Sheridan's breaking down his dream?

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

He's telling Ivanovo about seeing her and the vision and the things she said

Laura:

and what she was wearing and all that.

YumYum:

Is question, is this a good scene to you?

YumYum:

I, I, I wonder because it's very, it's very like, Well, I had this dream and

YumYum:

here's what it is, and then ivanovo will go, well, that makes sense.

YumYum:

That lines up like, this is this thing.

YumYum:

Right.

YumYum:

But this is this thing.

YumYum:

Right.

YumYum:

Please tell me more.

YumYum:

. Laura: Yeah, she's kind of

Xhafer:

Yeah, for sure.

Xhafer:

I mean, this is a

Xhafer:

flashback from a previous EP episode, so this was at one point foreshadowing.

YumYum:

mm

Xhafer:

There was actually a really interesting note from j m s on this

Xhafer:

scene about the PCO uniform because Sheridan is basically in charge

Xhafer:

of the largest organization of Telepaths in the galaxy right now.

Laura:

Oh, that's not Cycore actually.

Laura:

Like,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And it's the, the organizations are very different than the Cy,

Xhafer:

you know, you, you'd like to think they're very, it's very different

Xhafer:

than the Cyco, but he is sending and basically militarizing telepaths from

Xhafer:

all races right now.

YumYum:

They're guns.

YumYum:

That's what they are.

YumYum:

They're, they're weapons.

YumYum:

Telepaths are weapons.

YumYum:

That's what they're designed to be.

YumYum:

And he will use them as weapons in the show because that's who they are.

YumYum:

That's what they are.

YumYum:

And there'll be more to, to see with that.

YumYum:

I mean,

Xhafer:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I'll say is

Xhafer:

be no repercussions

YumYum:

shouldn't be treated later.

YumYum:

Better.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

All I'll say is leader.

YumYum:

Leader has opinions.

YumYum:

leader deserves better.

Laura:

Hmm.

YumYum:

Hashtag justice for leader

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah, there's like, the man in between is looking for you and stuff, and

Xhafer:

they, they theorize, I actually, I have a, a, a little bit to say

Xhafer:

about that, but it is Spoily town for about two episodes from now.

YumYum:

Uh, yes, I think I know what you're saying.

YumYum:

I mean, it, the, the, the apparent actual answer is Spoily Town for next

YumYum:

episode, and it's really spoiler.

YumYum:

I think it's really dumb.

Xhafer:

So,

YumYum:

I don't like the real answer.

YumYum:

I like the fake answer better.

YumYum:

I, I think I know what your answer is, but we'll, we'll, we'll hopefully

YumYum:

maybe hear about it a bit later.

Xhafer:

Well, I'll just, I'll bring it up in two episodes of this podcast.

Xhafer:

Just sit it in the back of your mind, listener.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

talk about it on the discord, I'm sure.

Laura:

we cut over to Med Lab again.

Laura:

Franklin's back at work?

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Uh, well, sort of, I mean, he's in his cs, he's not in his uniform.

Laura:

He's

Laura:

using a wheelchair.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

He's just rushing head first into his work instead of taking time to heal

Xhafer:

from his experiences and learn and grow, which is exactly what got him

Xhafer:

in that situation in the first place.

Xhafer:

What's the worst that could happen?

YumYum:

I am going to disagree with you, Mr.

YumYum:

I really like this because one of the things that's really interesting,

YumYum:

one, he's in a wheelchair this entire time, like he acknowledges that I'm

YumYum:

not getting up and pushing myself into the, into the action and literally in

YumYum:

infection all the way back in infection.

YumYum:

I, I really noticed this is he got shot with a laser beam.

YumYum:

He got like thrown across a room and within like a second he was getting

YumYum:

up and putting back on his scrubs and he was gonna go back to work.

YumYum:

Like that's the level Franklin was at.

YumYum:

While he uh, he's keenly aware that he is not of his limitations, of

YumYum:

his limitations, I'm not gonna do that, but I do have a mind that's

YumYum:

available and I'm going to give that.

YumYum:

So he's not giving himself like whole, like wholly to the job.

YumYum:

He is here just to advise.

YumYum:

He's here just to help people.

YumYum:

But that's it.

YumYum:

He's, he's looking at it from the perspective of, I'm not taking on

YumYum:

this burden just for my own sake.

YumYum:

I'm giving it to other people.

YumYum:

Like, I like this.

YumYum:

I like the Franklin Arc.

YumYum:

Overall.

YumYum:

You have to have him.

YumYum:

Also still be the doctor character.

YumYum:

So you have to have it kind of be like, well, how do you transition this?

YumYum:

And I think this whole entire scene, and what he talks about with Sheridan

YumYum:

is, is the most efficient and logical way to have that be the case.

YumYum:

Because I mean, realistically, you would argue that Franklin should

YumYum:

not be a doctor anymore in the show and just do other things.

YumYum:

But it's like, what would that be?

YumYum:

I don't know.

YumYum:

walk about.

Xhafer:

my main point of contention with that argument is I do not

Xhafer:

believe for a second that if he were physically capable of standing and

Xhafer:

having conducting surgery, that he would be full back to work at that moment.

Xhafer:

Like, I think the only thing stopping him from going fully

Xhafer:

back into his work is that he's physically incapable of doing it,

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

. Yeah,

Xhafer:

and even, even, pretending to be able to do it.

YumYum:

mm.

Xhafer:

So.

Xhafer:

I think he should, I don't know, like bad shit happens.

Xhafer:

Uni should take time and grow as a human being and not just say,

Xhafer:

I've had the epiphany, I'm good.

Xhafer:

That's, that's

Xhafer:

not how

Xhafer:

mental work on like your mental

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I, I, I get this.

YumYum:

I think one of the things that really turns the key for me, and

YumYum:

this is the, the, the, the point of view that I look at it is, is

YumYum:

through Richard Biggs's performance.

YumYum:

Yet again, I think he just brings out a certain thing that when you lay it out

YumYum:

in just terms of here's what happens to Franklin, it may seem a little bit

YumYum:

lesser then, but when you have Richard Bigs delivering that big monologue to

YumYum:

Sheridan, he says it not with just this, I've had this epiphany, but there's this

YumYum:

real serene quality to how he delivers these lines, these pauses, and that he's

YumYum:

a really reflective character in this.

YumYum:

And so I, I think it's that

YumYum:

thing of.

Xhafer:

changed.

YumYum:

He's definitely

YumYum:

changed and.

YumYum:

I think this is really a case of you have to rely on the actor to sell this

YumYum:

more than the script can at the moment.

YumYum:

And that's what really I think, brings it over the edge for me.

YumYum:

Cuz I can totally see where you are coming at it from too.

YumYum:

Cuz when I watched this initially, Franklin was not

YumYum:

a favorite character of mine.

YumYum:

I'm usually a fan of the DA characters, but I had no real opinion on, on Franklin

YumYum:

overall, but on on other re watches, I, I think he's a, a very, very uh, nuanced

YumYum:

person and I like the fact that he's flawed and he's weird and he's aggressive.

YumYum:

And even at the end of his realizing arc, he's still feels the desire

YumYum:

to be a man who has to give back.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

And.

YumYum:

He still has to work on things.

YumYum:

That's, that's it as well.

YumYum:

I would like to add something though, which is, even though we do see him

YumYum:

diving back into work, it is not the same as he's done previously.

YumYum:

He's delegating, he's going, you, you and you, you go do this thing.

YumYum:

It's not, I'm gonna go do this thing and this thing and this thing and

YumYum:

this thing, and it's all on me.

YumYum:

He's actually utilizing the fact that he's part of a team, and I think a thing

YumYum:

that also indicates that shift and we get to see it in action, is him showing

YumYum:

how somebody, how to use the rise.

YumYum:

Not just doing it himself, being like, yeah, let me do it.

YumYum:

He's just like, who taught you how to do that?

YumYum:

You gotta do it this way.

YumYum:

You gotta go watch me do it, and then you'll do it.

YumYum:

Give that kind of vibe of like, okay, and now you are going to give it a go

YumYum:

and I'm going to correct your technique.

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

, so it.

YumYum:

It's nice to see it in action.

YumYum:

Maybe I'm a soccer too, cuz this is one of my favorite JMS monologues in the show.

YumYum:

I really like the Franklin monologue about being alive and

YumYum:

the moments and living in the

YumYum:

moments and stuff.

YumYum:

Yeah.

Laura:

It's, really real too that there's nothing that makes you a better teacher

Laura:

and boss, like a physical limitation.

Laura:

Like now you have to, you have to rely on somebody else.

Laura:

Like I'm, I'm coming up on maternity leave

Laura:

and so I'm having to actually teach my team to do the things that I do so they

Laura:

can do it for three months while I'm gone.

Laura:

And uh, you know, we, we've been planning, we've been being very mindful about it.

Laura:

And I see now that in, you know, maybe the last year, maybe last two years

Laura:

with my team, I really wasn't asking as much of them as I could have.

Laura:

But now because we're coming on my physical limit, I'm pushing

Laura:

them to be better and it, it's a real thing, this scene,

YumYum:

there are those moments in life, whether it is something like yours or

YumYum:

with Franklin with an addiction issue happening, or even being stabbed.

YumYum:

You, you come to a realization of so many different things in your life.

YumYum:

And I really liked how he emphasized uh, with Sheridan.

YumYum:

No, no, no.

YumYum:

I, I ran away.

YumYum:

I wasn't looking after my, I, I ran away.

YumYum:

That's what I was doing.

YumYum:

What I think is awesome about Franklin too is he's your typical doctor character,

YumYum:

the man with an ego, a man with arrogance, and the show doesn't reward him for that.

YumYum:

It always, like, it usually punishes him for that.

YumYum:

It usually says, no, that's wrong actually.

YumYum:

Uh, You are, you are going to get in trouble for that.

YumYum:

It's not patting him on the back being like, oh, Bashir,

YumYum:

you genetically modified genius.

YumYum:

You, you are a cad.

YumYum:

You're gonna have a holodeck adventure and be fun.

YumYum:

Franklin's stories are often, he comes to a very harsh

YumYum:

realization in the most brutal way.

YumYum:

He had to basically crawl through glass to get to this point.

YumYum:

And as a viewer who may get frustrated with him as well, I find that deeply

YumYum:

cathartic to view as well, because he's a character that is by design meant to be

YumYum:

very abrasive, and you have to get to a point where you humble that person enough,

YumYum:

where the viewer can understand why you made them abrasive in the first place,

YumYum:

like they was a design to it other than.

YumYum:

It's a fun TV trophy character thing.

YumYum:

There's a, there's a reason for it.

Xhafer:

but I mean, it does give us the great Memeable moment of

Xhafer:

men will literally quit their jobs and spend a month homeless

Xhafer:

until they get stabbed rather than go to therapy

YumYum:

mm-hmm.

Laura:

True facts.

Xhafer:

After this we get some weird first person coming on the station.

Xhafer:

First person camera view.

Xhafer:

They get some real eat me eyes from the Pac.

Xhafer:

Mira

YumYum:

Which is just like, okay, this is adding tension apic.

YumYum:

Does this actually make sense that all of these people are staring at Anna Li?

YumYum:

Legit question.

YumYum:

Legit question.

YumYum:

Does anyone other than maybe Garib, Baldi, Zach and uh, VVA

YumYum:

even know who Anna Sheridan is?

Xhafer:

Probably not.

YumYum:

So everyone's reacting like, oh God, it's a lady

Xhafer:

so

YumYum:

either of you know who your boss's wife is?

Xhafer:

Someone called out j m s on that exact thing on the

Xhafer:

Usenet when this episode aired.

Xhafer:

And his was all like, she's an attractive lady.

Xhafer:

They're just looking at the attractive lady.

Xhafer:

And I'm just all like, that's a shitty answer.

YumYum:

And she's not even that attractive.

YumYum:

No.

YumYum:

I'm gonna jms jms everyone, everyone go to that scene right now.

YumYum:

Go through that scene to the bit where she's going into the lift

YumYum:

and there's this one security person who gives her a scared look.

YumYum:

Like, oh my God, it's her.

YumYum:

Now, don't you tell me That's a guy giving a sexy lady look, that's

YumYum:

not a sexy look at that scene.

YumYum:

No, that's a I'm afraid of her.

YumYum:

Look, okay.

YumYum:

There's something weird about this lady.

YumYum:

Do, do you want a point of comparison?

YumYum:

Go back to earlier season three, where Zach Allen was giving

YumYum:

the political officer the mm.

YumYum:

Sexy lady.

YumYum:

Look.

YumYum:

That's a sexy mm, sexy lady.

YumYum:

Look, this security guy's given her, oh my god, it's her.

YumYum:

Look.

YumYum:

Completely different.

YumYum:

Jms, you're full of.

YumYum:

Yeah, he does try and cover his ass sometimes.

YumYum:

What it is, it's a TV moment, that's what it is.

Xhafer:

I mean Melissa Gilbert was like an actress of some renowned like, you know,

Xhafer:

it's not like she was just a nobody when she's walking on set here as an actress.

Xhafer:

So I don't know, maybe a starstruck extra possibly, but it's just, it's bullshit.

Xhafer:

It all reads so weird.

Xhafer:

And this part is exactly the same for me for the Z minus countdown that started.

Xhafer:

And, you know, at the PR start of the previous episode where it's an attempt

Xhafer:

at a foreign storytelling device, this first person thing, we don't

Xhafer:

get a lot of this in Babylon five.

Xhafer:

We, this countdown is the only time we see something like this where we get

Xhafer:

a countdown to something that is not something the characters are aware.

YumYum:

Mm.

Xhafer:

You know, like they don't know what this countdown's for.

Xhafer:

They're not talking about it.

Xhafer:

It's not like the countdown to the

Xhafer:

election or something that we get in season one.

Xhafer:

It's just for the audience.

Xhafer:

And it is so foreign in the storytelling device, landscape of

Xhafer:

this show that it is jarring in a way.

Xhafer:

And I mean, if, if that was the goal and the argument could be

Xhafer:

made there that it's supposed to be jarring, mission accomplished,

YumYum:

You got me.

Xhafer:

I don't think it adds anything

YumYum:

I, I think it doesn't add anything because it doesn't make sense,

YumYum:

like how we just said, like, all of these people re it doesn't make sense

YumYum:

if it, if it did make sense in that way.

YumYum:

The execution visually and what it does would be pitch perfect.

YumYum:

The thing that I don't like is they connect it to the future Flash Vision

YumYum:

Dalen had in the time travel episode and I'm like, what a, what a payoff, I guess.

YumYum:

Oh no, it's, it's his, And you know, maybe this is a foreign, like we say,

YumYum:

this is a foreign element, but also just, this is clearly something that

YumYum:

was in the show Bible at some point.

YumYum:

It's like, oh, I'm gonna fucking use it still because there's a version of the

YumYum:

show where this would've made sense.

YumYum:

If it was Katherine Sakai a character that pretty much everyone then

YumYum:

Station knew cuz she did business with everyone, it would make sense.

YumYum:

But it's Anna, who we, the audience don't even know.

YumYum:

All we know is she is wife who dead.

YumYum:

That's all.

Xhafer:

we have a video message from her in season two

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

it's a different actress.

YumYum:

Tasha GA's sister.

YumYum:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And it's just the whole thing.

Xhafer:

We get, like you said, we, we get to the, the payoff for the flash

Xhafer:

forward scene from four episodes ago.

Xhafer:

I think it was World Without End Part two was four episodes ago.

Xhafer:

From this point I have some like logistical questions about this.

Xhafer:

Mbar watching you sleep thing though.

YumYum:

Yes.

Xhafer:

Does she just not sleep for three days?

Xhafer:

Does she sleep during the days?

Xhafer:

Like

YumYum:

Well, we know that they can go longer without sleep and food than humans,

YumYum:

but she's half human

YumYum:

now.

Laura:

would,

Xhafer:

which makes sense.

Xhafer:

If this were a tradition from Imari dating humans, but that's new, which means this

Xhafer:

has to exist from Imari dating Mbar.

Xhafer:

And if they sleep less than people, does that mean she doesn't sleep for a week?

Xhafer:

Like how does the, do mbar men sleep more than Mbar women?

Xhafer:

Like,

Laura:

There's my head.

Laura:

Cannon

YumYum:

There's no

Xhafer:

it's just,

YumYum:

Not in, not in Vains world.

YumYum:

The men sleep more . Nothing that says that it has to be three consecutive

YumYum:

nights cuz they don't do it that way.

YumYum:

That is

YumYum:

true,

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah,

YumYum:

I thought you were gonna mention she spends most of the

YumYum:

time not even watching him.

YumYum:

She's just walking

YumYum:

around elsewhere.

YumYum:

I thought

YumYum:

you were gonna mention that because.

YumYum:

That

YumYum:

drives me insane.

YumYum:

That drives me insane.

YumYum:

Like I could understand like you're sitting there next to him, maybe you're

YumYum:

reading a book or something or doing something else, but like she walks

YumYum:

into a different area of Yeah, but I feel like that's cuz she's seen his

YumYum:

face, so it's kind of fulfilled for the night so she can go do other things

YumYum:

and maybe she could go to sleep if she wanted to play with the snow globe.

YumYum:

Play with his famous snow globe, which by the way, I, I, I do adore

YumYum:

that somewhere in season three they shove that there in the background

YumYum:

so that you could say nerds.

YumYum:

It was there the whole time.

YumYum:

But

YumYum:

no, it just, why does he, I mean, look, I know Sheridan's a dork Andor,

YumYum:

but why does he have a snow globe

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

Laura:

Man, that was like the thing to get on vacation in the nineties though.

YumYum:

mm-hmm.

YumYum:

Bob or should have got one

YumYum:

and um, no.

YumYum:

She should've been holding one of his oranges and then she

YumYum:

dropped the orange on the ground.

YumYum:

Oh no.

YumYum:

never get a slow shot of the

Xhafer:

That's a way less traumatic shot to end an episode

Xhafer:

with.

YumYum:

a funnier shot.

Xhafer:

That's fair.

Xhafer:

Yep.

Xhafer:

That's what we get.

Xhafer:

Z minus two days in credits

YumYum:

Zed

YumYum:

Minus.

Xhafer:

snow globe.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

And hello, it's me, Anna Sheridan, Sheridan's wife.

YumYum:

Just so that we the audience know, cuz we are all sitting

YumYum:

there going, who's this lady?

YumYum:

We don't know who she is.

YumYum:

Oh.

YumYum:

One of the times they actually recasted somebody.

YumYum:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Laura:

This was a, an adorable moment After the show ended uh, you

Laura:

know, we get the Z minus two days and my son was watching with us and

Laura:

he turns and he goes, Daly's gonna think that he's cheating on her

Xhafer:

So I was.

Xhafer:

Beth was sitting next to me while we, I was watching this one, and she saw

Xhafer:

this scene and she's like, oh, shit.

Xhafer:

Like he's a scumbag.

Xhafer:

It's like, no, no, been dead for like six years.

YumYum:

This isn't his fault.

YumYum:

This isn't like, legitimately, this is not his fault.

YumYum:

This, look, look, if you watch a show, you'll actually know that he, he even

YumYum:

has trouble kissing her because he's so grief stricken about his wife,

YumYum:

. Laura: Right?

YumYum:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

Yep.

YumYum:

It's gonna be a big thing.

Xhafer:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

A a kinky night for Sheridan is being able to hold her hand.

YumYum:

Ah, geez.

YumYum:

Dalen, ah, shucks.

YumYum:

I gotta tell my dad about this

Xhafer:

you can't, the coms are

Xhafer:

down.

Laura:

end.

Xhafer:

All right, so on a scale of Babylon's one to Babylon, five, how

Xhafer:

did we all feel about this episode?

Laura:

Guests go first.

YumYum:

I dunno.

YumYum:

Uh, Babylon four.

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

I'm a solid four in this as well.

YumYum:

I think it, it does a pretty decent job.

YumYum:

It does all of the switching around of our space action with deep

YumYum:

personal character things, good performances, the music's great.

YumYum:

It's a good, oh, we are nearing the end of the season and uh, it makes

YumYum:

Franklin's walkabout almost worth it.

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

YumYum:

Don't fully get that there.

YumYum:

No, but it, it, it's, it's a great conclusion to this story strand

YumYum:

that I find to be tedious overall.

Laura:

Yeah,

Xhafer:

it, def this, the walkabout storyline definitely feels

Xhafer:

labored for most of its existence.

Xhafer:

So if anything, you can give it a point for ending that storyline

Xhafer:

regardless of the ending that it got.

Xhafer:

Now I'm with you on this one.

Xhafer:

I feel this is a four.

Laura:

Well,

Laura:

. it's, it's unanimous.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

but it's definitely solid

Laura:

It's above average if you look at just the, the math of it.

Laura:

Right.

Laura:

So three would be right in the middle.

Laura:

This is definitely above the average babble on five episode.

YumYum:

Mm

Laura:

up to a really great tension at the end.

Laura:

We are coming into some great storyline.

Laura:

It's gonna be good.

Xhafer:

Yep.

YumYum:

It's kind of like the example of like, what does a season

YumYum:

three episode of B five look like?

YumYum:

I would say, oh, oh, shadow dancing's a great example of what a season

YumYum:

three B five episode is like.

Xhafer:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

And I mean, this is an excellent season of television

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

around.

Xhafer:

not, I mean by Babylon five standards.

Xhafer:

It's great.

Xhafer:

But by just standard television, it's fantastic.

Xhafer:

Uh, There's a lot of winners in this season for sure.

Xhafer:

And this is one of 'em.

Xhafer:

Next week we have another episode that I'm, I'm rather fond.

Xhafer:

I'm really looking forward to talking about this episode.

Xhafer:

We got season three, episode 22, Zaha Doom.

Xhafer:

Our synopsis tells us very little about what goes on in this episode.

Laura:

Really?

Xhafer:

Rondo's political status changes

Laura:

Hmm.

Xhafer:

and motives of the shadows are,

YumYum:

No

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

That's, that's it.

Xhafer:

That's all we get.

Laura:

Sounds like big things though.

Xhafer:

I would love to like know what the TV guide preview of this episode was.

. Laura:

Oh, yeah.

Xhafer:

I feel like so much of these modern ones are so much more, especially

Xhafer:

for older TV shows, they're very spoil horrific and I don't remember that

Xhafer:

being the case, like reading them as a child, but I was also a child

Xhafer:

and my brain wasn't fully developed,

YumYum:

The, the TV spots were crazy for B five, they would often spoil and

YumYum:

outright lie to you in the TV spots for B five that are included on the dvd.

YumYum:

They would've the guy who would be like, next time a Babylon five,

YumYum:

an electric guitar would whale and

Xhafer:

Yeah, the same

Xhafer:

The Dragon Palsy once

YumYum:

And he would come in and it would just be like they're splicing footage

YumYum:

from season one into a season three thing.

YumYum:

And it's like, you lying to me.

Laura:

so it's like YouTube, huh?

YumYum:

Yeah.

YumYum:

And then you have the DVD descriptions, which are also crazy and wild for, for

YumYum:

the Belan five episodes and a lot of mean wilds or that Wiley Londo is used a lot.

Laura:

Hmm.

Laura:

Is he Wiley?

Laura:

Is that a good adjective?

Laura:

I

YumYum:

Well, that's, I would call

YumYum:

Gu

YumYum:

Baldi,

YumYum:

Wiley

Xhafer:

maybe.

Laura:

Yeah.

Xhafer:

Alright, Ray and Rachel, tell us about your podcast.

YumYum:

We are working our way through Babon five.

YumYum:

We also do other sci-fi shows as well.

YumYum:

We started off doing Star Trek Discovery, which is, that's

YumYum:

why we're called Yum, yum.

YumYum:

Star Trek Discovery.

YumYum:

Did you guys know that?

Xhafer:

I

Laura:

remember the story.

Laura:

Yeah.

Laura:

Yeah.

YumYum:

What a story it is.

YumYum:

So we like to re-watch, revisit, and talk about episodes of

YumYum:

those science fiction shows.

YumYum:

Star Trek Discovery, Babylon five.

YumYum:

A little while ago on our Patreon, we finished space above and

YumYum:

beyond, which we'll release onto

YumYum:

our main feed in a couple months time.

YumYum:

Uh, very.

YumYum:

Space above and beyond, which also has some B five cast people, like

YumYum:

minor players bleed through as well as a lot of Seinfeld actors strangely.

YumYum:

Uh, And Richard Kind is there too.

YumYum:

But yes, we, we talk about those sci-fi shows.

YumYum:

We're re-watching it.

YumYum:

So we are spoiler specific.

YumYum:

We, we look at it and go, okay, did you note this thing from this thing?

YumYum:

And uh, we're having a great time.

YumYum:

We're midway through season four at the moment, so we're ahead of you guys.

YumYum:

And uh, we're, we're having, we're having an absolute blast.

YumYum:

And when we're talking about what episode we want to come on for, for,

YumYum:

for this discussion, I was like, oh, let's pick a Franklin episode.

YumYum:

Cause also, Franklin's interesting in season four because, you

YumYum:

know, I, I imagine the question is like, what do you do?

YumYum:

With Franklin as a character after you've done the big drug addiction plot.

YumYum:

Like what does he do in the story?

YumYum:

And uh, it's been interesting on the re-watch perspective to

YumYum:

actually look at that deeply as well as all of these other things.

YumYum:

He gets married to Marcus and we also like on our show to do like a little

YumYum:

spotlight on different actors that pop up in episodes whether they're

YumYum:

mainstays or, or, or guest spots.

YumYum:

And there's a lot of interesting people that you don't even know

YumYum:

are in B five, like the voice of Invader Zim shows up in B

YumYum:

five in season four for some reason.

YumYum:

And uh, yeah.

YumYum:

Lot of crazy stuff, but yeah.

YumYum:

Yum, yum.

YumYum:

Podcast.

YumYum:

We're on all of the hosting sites, even YouTube.

YumYum:

Just look up Yum, yum podcast.

YumYum:

You'll find us.

Laura:

Okay.

Xhafer:

Well, thanks so much for joining us today.

Xhafer:

It's been a lot of

Xhafer:

fun.

Xhafer:

Rachel, it was nice to actually talk with you.

Xhafer:

You haven't made it to any of the league and non-aligned podcast stuff.

YumYum:

Yeah, Rachel.

YumYum:

Well, it's cuz Rachel's a teacher and we have time zone differences, so that

YumYum:

always happens at like two o'clock on a Monday and I'm like, well, I'm free.

YumYum:

Luckily

YumYum:

each

Xhafer:

enough.

Xhafer:

.Yeah, that'll do it.

Xhafer:

All right.

Xhafer:

Well, thanks so much for joining us.

Xhafer:

We really appreciate it.

Xhafer:

And go out there and listen to Yummy on Everyone.

Xhafer:

We'd also like to thank Jeremy Siegel for making our lovely theme music.

Xhafer:

You can find More at Jeremy's work at Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

Laura:

And thank you to Angry Duck time machine on Instagram

Laura:

for our podcast artwork.

Xhafer:

Thank you, Aaron for editing our podcast and making sure that it gets out.

Xhafer:

We would

Laura:

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer:

without you and we appreciate all of the work you

Xhafer:

do.

Xhafer:

And thanks to everyone for listening.

Xhafer:

Hop on our discord.

Xhafer:

Uh, We've got the community there.

Xhafer:

You can shoot us an email.

Xhafer:

Who are you?

Xhafer:

B five gmail.com.

Xhafer:

Twitter I check.

Xhafer:

Begrudgingly once a week but the Facebook will see your messages on.

Xhafer:

So interact with us there.

Xhafer:

Email discord and thanks so much for listening.

Xhafer:

We really appreciate it.

Xhafer:

Have a great week.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.