S4E3 - Poor Vir, Who's Lennier?

Xhafer: 00:00:00

content warning It makes sense but if you're uncomfortable

Xhafer: 00:00:52

Hello and Who have gotten to know a favorite Babylon.

Xhafer: 00:01:02

Five.

Xhafer: 00:01:02

I'm

Laura: 00:01:03

And I'm Laura.

Xhafer: 00:01:07

to talk about

Laura: 00:01:10

Yeah.

Laura: 00:01:10

Did we ever come up with a name for this bit?

Laura: 00:01:12

I don't know that we did.

Xhafer: 00:01:14

I don't think we did.

Xhafer: 00:01:15

sheet.

Xhafer: 00:01:16

I've just got it

Laura: 00:01:18

Yeah, me too.

Laura: 00:01:19

We need a name.

Xhafer: 00:01:22

we crowdsourced plot

Laura: 00:01:25

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:01:25

very happy

Laura: 00:01:27

I mean, the crowd could suggest another one and that'd be great.

Laura: 00:01:35

Yeah.

Laura: 00:01:35

We're, we're talking about the alignments of the ambassadors today,

Laura: 00:01:39

so we're gonna figure out, like on that scale, the little matrix.

Laura: 00:01:44

Chaotic, neutral, lawful evil, neutral, good.

Laura: 00:01:51

Where do each of our main ambassadors fall?

Laura: 00:01:54

So that's gonna Belen Kar, Lando and Kosh and Kosh Two, or

Laura: 00:02:01

Kosh Point oh as we call him.

Laura: 00:02:05

So, uh,

Xhafer: 00:02:07

like even like when

Laura: 00:02:12

yeah.

Laura: 00:02:13

Yeah, he's, he's definitely unique.

Laura: 00:02:17

So I'm very curious.

Laura: 00:02:19

I, when I sat down to actually do this, I felt like it was kind of hard.

Laura: 00:02:22

I think it felt like it was hard with our command staff too.

Laura: 00:02:26

Um, but I'm curious to see what you think.

Laura: 00:02:29

And then I actually have a little, like a cheat sheet for myself

Laura: 00:02:33

that helped me figure out some of these that were harder for me.

Laura: 00:02:37

Who do you wanna start with?

Xhafer: 00:02:39

I will say, except for

Laura: 00:02:48

Okay.

Laura: 00:02:48

Yeah, I definitely had trouble with that, with at least two of them.

Laura: 00:02:53

Uh, so tell me what your thoughts are.

Xhafer: 00:02:59

probably

Laura: 00:03:01

Okay.

Laura: 00:03:07

Okay.

Laura: 00:03:12

Okay.

Laura: 00:03:12

I could see that cuz I definitely pegged her as lawful Good.

Laura: 00:03:15

And just did not, did not ha think about changes or anything, but I, I see

Laura: 00:03:21

where you're coming from On, on neutral.

Laura: 00:03:23

Good.

Laura: 00:03:23

Why don't you elaborate a little bit?

Xhafer: 00:03:26

uh, you know, she does break

Laura: 00:03:31

Okay.

Laura: 00:03:31

That's true.

Xhafer: 00:03:33

does choose to ignore a handful

Xhafer: 00:03:40

the greater good of the universe really is

Laura: 00:03:43

Yeah.

Laura: 00:03:45

She's kind of playing by her own internal laws and not necessarily

Laura: 00:03:48

the societal laws around her.

Xhafer: 00:03:51

Yes.

Xhafer: 00:03:52

And why I think that would

Laura: 00:04:02

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:04:03

Yeah.

Laura: 00:04:04

Literally.

Xhafer: 00:04:04

Yeah, it's one thing Joe Not, not to bring up any specific examples

Laura: 00:04:18

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:04:20

the president de facto

Laura: 00:04:25

Mm.

Xhafer: 00:04:26

And that's kind of where I skewed in here Now.

Xhafer: 00:04:29

Luckily, she's taking it on the good

Laura: 00:04:31

Yeah.

Laura: 00:04:32

She's not a.

Laura: 00:04:34

Yes.

Laura: 00:04:35

Yes.

Laura: 00:04:39

Yeah.

Laura: 00:04:43

There's a lot of them out there, though.

Laura: 00:04:45

It is even more than just the one you're alluding to.

Laura: 00:04:50

Sure.

Laura: 00:04:51

Yeah.

Laura: 00:04:52

I, I think de Lens's the easiest of all of them to peg, right?

Laura: 00:04:56

Yeah.

Laura: 00:04:57

Okay.

Laura: 00:04:57

So what about, uh, Kar, how do you feel about him?

Xhafer: 00:05:02

I

Laura: 00:05:07

Okay.

Laura: 00:05:08

Can do.

Xhafer: 00:05:10

I think

Laura: 00:05:15

Okay.

Laura: 00:05:16

I definitely pegged JA car, chaotic, neutral.

Xhafer: 00:05:22

chaotic,

Laura: 00:05:25

Okay.

Laura: 00:05:27

Yeah, I, I, Wrote chaotic, neutral for Jaar.

Laura: 00:05:31

And I was thinking about him just, I don't know, I guess up to the point we're at.

Laura: 00:05:37

But he has kind of taken his good turn already, hasn't he?

Laura: 00:05:41

Like,

Laura: 00:05:48

yes.

Laura: 00:05:48

Yes.

Laura: 00:05:49

That was a big, motivator of change.

Laura: 00:05:52

DeLanda was the one I had the hardest time with.

Laura: 00:05:56

So I'm sitting there like thinking about Londo and I was like, is Londo evil?

Laura: 00:06:00

Like, I don't wanna think he's evil, but he's done some pretty evil things.

Xhafer: 00:06:06

think Alando

Laura: 00:06:08

Yeah.

Laura: 00:06:14

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:06:15

No matter how not

Laura: 00:06:23

Yeah.

Laura: 00:06:24

Yeah.

Laura: 00:06:24

So the, you said true neutral is where he started,

Xhafer: 00:06:30

lawful,

Xhafer: 00:06:30

neutral.

Xhafer: 00:06:30

I, I, I think

Laura: 00:06:31

neutral.

Xhafer: 00:06:34

lawful what

Laura: 00:06:39

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:06:40

Not necessarily his personal code of

Laura: 00:06:46

Okay.

Xhafer: 00:06:47

and this is

Laura: 00:06:50

Right.

Laura: 00:06:51

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:06:52

at the very least, it's accepted

Laura: 00:06:55

yeah, that's true.

Laura: 00:06:57

So then he goes to lawful evil.

Laura: 00:07:01

Yeah.

Laura: 00:07:01

Uh, and that's where I wound up like, Doing, going in circles

Laura: 00:07:06

in my head like, where is Lando?

Laura: 00:07:08

And I actually like Googled for one of these alignment charts to like, help me.

Laura: 00:07:14

And so this chart that I'm looking at it, the y axis is you go from

Laura: 00:07:20

selfish to selfless on, you know, evil through good, and then the X axis.

Laura: 00:07:26

You're going to from prioritize a structure and tradition to

Laura: 00:07:30

prioritize a change in freedom.

Laura: 00:07:33

So what it says about lawful evil is it says, I put the selfish needs

Laura: 00:07:37

of myself above the needs of others, and we'll take advantage of the

Laura: 00:07:42

rules and traditions of society in order to keep others beneath me.

Laura: 00:07:46

And I was like, well, that's it.

Laura: 00:07:50

Yeah.

Laura: 00:07:51

So I was like that, that's how I'm coming to this, you know?

Laura: 00:07:54

But the thing about it is when we met Londo, he was in that lawful

Laura: 00:07:59

neutral that you were talking about.

Laura: 00:08:01

So we kind of liked him.

Laura: 00:08:04

He was funny.

Xhafer: 00:08:06

Chiari, and you're

Laura: 00:08:09

Yeah.

Laura: 00:08:11

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:08:13

And I think it's interesting that they brought it in too with the relationship

Laura: 00:08:17

with Londo and Garabaldi and then we get, at this point in the show, Kar

Laura: 00:08:22

like risking his life for Garabaldi.

Laura: 00:08:26

And Garibaldis kind of like an every man in the show, you know, he's

Laura: 00:08:29

the, the every guy, just a, just a everyday Joe doing his security job.

Laura: 00:08:36

And, he's doing the thing that we are doing at the same time as he's, he

Laura: 00:08:41

sours on lawn and, he lifts up with Kar.

Laura: 00:08:44

So, man, it was tough.

Laura: 00:08:51

It was tough to accept that.

Laura: 00:08:52

I was like, man, he is evil.

Laura: 00:08:53

He's He's evil.

Laura: 00:08:57

Okay.

Laura: 00:08:57

What about the S?

Xhafer: 00:09:00

I think outwardly chaotic

Laura: 00:09:06

Yeah.

Laura: 00:09:07

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:09:09

it's tough to say because chaotic.

Laura: 00:09:15

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:09:21

Right.

Xhafer: 00:09:23

but they also are entirely

Laura: 00:09:28

Yeah, it,

Laura: 00:09:33

it's a whole bunch of rules we don't understand, but

Laura: 00:09:35

they're following their rules.

Laura: 00:09:38

Yeah.

Laura: 00:09:39

So I kind of pegged.

Laura: 00:09:42

I don't know.

Laura: 00:09:43

I kind of pegged the original Kosh maybe as true, neutral, just kind of

Xhafer: 00:09:48

I think

Laura: 00:09:50

You think he's good?

Xhafer: 00:09:51

I think he Cares

Laura: 00:09:58

Uh, yeah.

Xhafer: 00:10:00

aliens in general, like he does, he actually cares

Laura: 00:10:05

Yeah.

Laura: 00:10:05

Okay.

Laura: 00:10:06

I could pay him as neutral.

Laura: 00:10:07

Good.

Laura: 00:10:07

Especially, I'm reading my chart and it says, uh, for neutral good.

Laura: 00:10:11

Whether I break or follow the rules is inconsequential.

Laura: 00:10:15

What matters most is being selfless in protecting the wellbeing of

Laura: 00:10:18

others, because Kosh definitely broke the rules to, uh, help Sheridan.

Laura: 00:10:26

At one point and then, you know, left a piece of himself with

Laura: 00:10:31

Sheridan to like save him, so,

Xhafer: 00:10:34

And given reaction

Laura: 00:10:39

Yeah.

Laura: 00:10:40

I agree.

Laura: 00:10:41

I agree.

Laura: 00:10:41

Okay, so I, I'm gonna go with neutral.

Laura: 00:10:43

Good.

Laura: 00:10:44

I'm changing my opinion of Kosh original Kosh.

Laura: 00:10:48

about Kosh Point Oh.

Xhafer: 00:10:54

It's hard to say.

Laura: 00:10:58

Yeah,

Laura: 00:11:00

the the purple suit and the red eye are definitely supposed to

Laura: 00:11:03

make us think he's evil, right?

Xhafer: 00:11:13

Yeah, Yeah, for We're supposed to

Laura: 00:11:17

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:11:19

like his actions

Laura: 00:11:27

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:11:29

and not

Laura: 00:11:33

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:11:34

I mean, being a

Laura: 00:11:40

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:11:44

does that make you evil?

Xhafer: 00:11:46

I'd say if of the in acting percent yes.

Laura: 00:11:52

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:11:52

But again operating on an entirely way anyone comprehend,

Laura: 00:12:04

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:12:07

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:12:13

also FRA

Laura: 00:12:19

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:12:23

I, I put him as because I don't And to act, not necessarily but definitely

Laura: 00:12:36

Right.

Laura: 00:12:39

Yeah.

Laura: 00:12:44

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:12:44

that kind of

Laura: 00:12:49

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:12:50

That makes me It's definitely a form of selfishness

Xhafer: 00:12:54

given galactic, gathering

Laura: 00:13:01

Yeah, I, I've got him as lawful neutral, just under that assumption that

Laura: 00:13:06

he is operating under the rules and laws of VO on society that we don't understand.

Laura: 00:13:14

Um, but yeah, neutral.

Laura: 00:13:15

I was like, I don't know.

Laura: 00:13:16

I don't, he's, he's definitely coded as evil, but hard to say.

Laura: 00:13:27

I think we figured those guys out.

Laura: 00:13:31

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:13:35

Spoilers for the end.

Xhafer: 00:13:42

summoning.

Xhafer: 00:13:43

Are you ready for a fact

Laura: 00:13:46

I always love a fact that's gonna blow my mind.

Xhafer: 00:13:52

the gathering actually all cast

Laura: 00:14:01

Wow.

Laura: 00:14:02

We got them all together for this one.

Laura: 00:14:04

Huh?

Laura: 00:14:06

Didn't have any scheduled conflicts.

Laura: 00:14:12

Wow.

Laura: 00:14:14

Neat.

Laura: 00:14:15

I mean, it's a, it's a big cast.

Xhafer: 00:14:19

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:14:19

I did not check this at all, but I read it on mid-winter

Xhafer: 00:14:23

and if it's on Lurkers guide, it's

Xhafer: 00:14:25

fact cuz someone

Laura: 00:14:28

would've complained

Laura: 00:14:28

already.

Laura: 00:14:29

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:14:32

would've Um, actually that

Xhafer: 00:14:35

I, I trust

Laura: 00:14:36

yeah, yeah.

Xhafer: 00:14:41

we have Swaths

Xhafer: 00:14:49

this checks Andreas would

Laura: 00:14:55

Yeah.

Laura: 00:15:01

Yeah.

Laura: 00:15:02

Makes sense.

Laura: 00:15:05

When you're watching this episode, you're watching on Voodoo, right?

Laura: 00:15:10

Okay.

Laura: 00:15:11

So I noticed on, we're watching on Apple, or we bought it on, you

Laura: 00:15:17

know, through iTunes or whatever.

Laura: 00:15:19

the audio at the beginning of this episode, the audio and a little

Laura: 00:15:24

bit of the video was terrible.

Laura: 00:15:27

Did you have that same feeling?

Laura: 00:15:30

Okay.

Laura: 00:15:31

I don't know what's going on over at Apple,

Xhafer: 00:15:36

Everyone

Laura: 00:15:41

maybe.

Laura: 00:15:44

Yeah, that's one of those, uh, really popular shows I have not picked up, so

Xhafer: 00:15:49

I haven't I haven't you wanna watch afterwards,

Xhafer: 00:16:02

it is

Laura: 00:16:05

So I probably

Laura: 00:16:06

need that one right now.

Laura: 00:16:07

Okay.

Xhafer: 00:16:08

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:16:09

especially if you got Apple already paying for

Laura: 00:16:14

Okay.

Laura: 00:16:15

Noted.

Xhafer: 00:16:16

We open up she doesn't need a translator She's got

Laura: 00:16:32

I also wrote Duo Lingo in my notes.

Laura: 00:16:37

Yeah.

Laura: 00:16:38

Yeah, she does.

Laura: 00:16:39

Okay.

Laura: 00:16:40

Up until a point.

Xhafer: 00:16:42

Yeah, they listen and just like, well, I'll tag along just in case.

Xhafer: 00:16:49

And Ivanova, I think

Xhafer: 00:16:51

is learning Imari to not have Marcus tag along.

Xhafer: 00:16:54

That's

Xhafer: 00:16:55

like the vibe

Xhafer: 00:16:56

just like, no, don't, don't And it's No, you?

Laura: 00:17:04

that's definitely it.

Laura: 00:17:05

She did not want to have to have Mar lean on Marcus at all, and

Laura: 00:17:10

uh, she's been trying not to.

Laura: 00:17:13

Hmm.

Laura: 00:17:14

I gotta do a little bit more duo lingo, I guess.

Laura: 00:17:17

Not quite there.

Laura: 00:17:19

I thought it was funny in this scene at the end, Dylan tells Marcus that

Laura: 00:17:24

anyone who laughs has to answer to her.

Laura: 00:17:27

I have a hard time picturing the mbar laughing about this.

Xhafer: 00:17:32

Well, I think knowing five

Laura: 00:17:38

Hmm.

Xhafer: 00:17:38

on its way if you uh, they talk about different apparently

Laura: 00:17:48

Okay.

Laura: 00:17:49

Okay.

Xhafer: 00:17:50

they probably

Laura: 00:17:54

Okay.

Xhafer: 00:17:58

the language might actually accidents, especially you think about

Xhafer: 00:18:04

what she's doing, she's probably saying

Xhafer: 00:18:08

rather

Laura: 00:18:09

Okay.

Xhafer: 00:18:12

So it probably would actually

Xhafer: 00:18:15

knowing how

Xhafer: 00:18:17

comedy

Laura: 00:18:19

Yeah.

Laura: 00:18:19

We just don't see them laugh much.

Laura: 00:18:21

We don't, I guess, toss out puns all the time on this show.

Laura: 00:18:26

I had a hard time picturing it.

Laura: 00:18:27

I was like, They're a little too Vulcan for that, right?

Laura: 00:18:30

They're gonna be respectful, but okay.

Laura: 00:18:33

Maybe over on Centara Prime, Lando and Veer encountered Kar being,

Laura: 00:18:41

humiliated in the throne room.

Laura: 00:18:55

Oh, I hope they don't have these hats.

Xhafer: 00:18:59

Uh, I mean, the missing

Laura: 00:19:02

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:19:03

still did not, is not good.

Xhafer: 00:19:08

Did not feel

Laura: 00:19:11

Yeah.

Laura: 00:19:12

Yeah.

Laura: 00:19:12

Big props to the costumer who put together this jesters hat.

Laura: 00:19:16

It, has a nice level of sinister to it with the little spiky things on it.

Laura: 00:19:24

Yeah.

Laura: 00:19:25

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:19:29

after

Laura: 00:19:34

I said the same thing.

Laura: 00:19:36

I was like, man, he's, he's not even, you know, if you wanna use a one of

Laura: 00:19:41

those stupid incel terms, he's not even like friend zoned, he's not in

Laura: 00:19:45

a zone, he's not even acknowledged.

Laura: 00:19:50

She lists off everybody else.

Xhafer: 00:19:52

can't go

Laura: 00:19:57

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:19:59

daily and just like everyone I hold dear is she lists like Garabaldi.

Xhafer: 00:20:06

We've never seen them have a conversation,

Laura: 00:20:10

yeah, yeah.

Xhafer: 00:20:11

Lanier, fuck

Xhafer: 00:20:11

that guy.

Laura: 00:20:12

I guess for that matter,

Laura: 00:20:14

She doesn't have any positive associations with Franklin either then, cuz

Laura: 00:20:17

Franklin's definitely on the station.

Laura: 00:20:37

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:20:37

Marcus

Xhafer: 00:20:52

yeah, this conversation

Laura: 00:20:56

I mean, like everything out of Marcus's mouth is a little flirtatious.

Laura: 00:21:07

But he's put, he lays it on extra thick with Iva.

Laura: 00:21:09

Truly, yes.

Laura: 00:21:12

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:21:13

He has an agenda.

Laura: 00:21:14

I'm not, I'm not against it.

Laura: 00:21:16

I love the big flirt energy.

Laura: 00:21:17

Go for it.

Laura: 00:21:18

My dude, uh, in the war room, Zach tells Dalen that they've found a

Laura: 00:21:25

lead on where Garibaldi might be, but also Kar is missing, so I can do

Laura: 00:21:33

one thing, but not the other thing.

Laura: 00:21:36

And Dalen sends him after Aldi.

Laura: 00:21:41

Yeah.

Laura: 00:21:42

Yeah.

Laura: 00:21:42

We're just gonna have to hope Kar is okay by himself.

Laura: 00:21:45

I feel kind of bad because it seems like this is the second time that Dalen, I

Laura: 00:21:51

don't wanna say betrays, but certainly doesn't do anything for Kar, right?

Laura: 00:22:02

She kind of left the Narn hanging.

Laura: 00:22:05

Earlier and now she's like, well, we just gotta hope Ja car's.

Laura: 00:22:09

Okay, go get Mr.

Laura: 00:22:11

Garabaldi, Zach.

Laura: 00:22:12

which to be fair, that's what Zach wants to do.

Laura: 00:22:15

Zach doesn't wanna go get Jaar.

Laura: 00:22:18

Of kinda makes me feel bad for Jaar thoughts and prayers.

Xhafer: 00:22:29

cut

Laura: 00:22:34

Yeah.

Laura: 00:22:34

In the Garden of Betrayal,

Xhafer: 00:22:43

and I just gotta pain technicians.

Xhafer: 00:22:49

your job but workers' rights.

Laura: 00:22:56

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:22:58

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:23:00

yeah,

Laura: 00:23:04

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:23:06

man, I wish your job didn't exist, but I'm glad you

Xhafer: 00:23:09

guys at least got together and your

Xhafer: 00:23:12

job's

Laura: 00:23:14

Make sure that you get, you know, those benefits for that mental health

Laura: 00:23:19

coverage you're probably gonna need, yeah.

Laura: 00:23:26

And of course, work related injuries.

Laura: 00:23:29

I mean, yeah, it's very serious.

Xhafer: 00:23:37

I don't know if you've got the episode but at nine minutes and 45

Xhafer: 00:23:42

he like throws a bloody towel to his aid and lands on his face right past.

Xhafer: 00:23:51

the way his eyes roll

Xhafer: 00:23:54

reality.

Laura: 00:23:56

It's like, I can't believe I'm here.

Laura: 00:23:58

This is my job.

Laura: 00:24:00

Uh, I was very impressed with Cartage ability to keep that white

Laura: 00:24:05

coat, white outfit un bloodied when his hands are so bloody.

Laura: 00:24:12

And you know what that is?

Laura: 00:24:13

That's the customer going, I can't make another one of these.

Laura: 00:24:17

Y'all can't ruin it.

Laura: 00:24:19

Keep it on the hands.

Xhafer: 00:24:28

going to die.

Xhafer: 00:24:29

Zack and

Xhafer: 00:24:33

running

Laura: 00:24:35

yeah,

Xhafer: 00:24:37

What's

Xhafer: 00:24:38

happening

Xhafer: 00:24:40

it's

Laura: 00:24:40

yeah.

Laura: 00:24:40

I mean, it's not an Earth Station

Laura: 00:24:42

anymore.

Xhafer: 00:24:43

the Rangers, so I guess she's like technically a

Laura: 00:24:47

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:24:48

ki not even really a visiting general, like

Xhafer: 00:24:52

it's just,

Laura: 00:24:53

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:24:55

Yeah.

Laura: 00:24:55

Would we just

Laura: 00:24:56

give control of our military force on an island to a visiting?

Laura: 00:25:01

I don't, I don't know.

Laura: 00:25:03

Uh, it's, it's

Xhafer: 00:25:04

it's allies.

Xhafer: 00:25:07

military force that protects Babylon five.

Xhafer: 00:25:10

So is she really a visiting general?

Xhafer: 00:25:13

just the general?

Laura: 00:25:14

Yeah, I don't know.

Laura: 00:25:16

It's all very, very

Laura: 00:25:17

murky.

Xhafer: 00:25:20

Anyway, she goes to

Laura: 00:25:31

Lee's also.

Laura: 00:25:33

Like very abused here.

Laura: 00:25:36

And this is the first, well, I think we've seen signs of it, but this is

Laura: 00:25:39

like her first confirmation that the new VLAN ambassador is an abusive jerk.

Laura: 00:25:46

Uh, he's made her get rid of all of her things.

Laura: 00:25:50

I feel like that's a classic abuser tactic, right?

Laura: 00:25:53

She's only allowed to have a bed and only because she needs to sleep or

Laura: 00:25:58

she will die if she doesn't sleep.

Laura: 00:26:00

So he needs her alive.

Laura: 00:26:03

She can have the bed, but yeah,

Xhafer: 00:26:08

Zach is the ship

Laura: 00:26:25

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:26:28

Yeah.

Laura: 00:26:28

Soran wrapped to a table as we find out.

Laura: 00:26:37

How big is this pod too?

Laura: 00:26:39

Like usually when you see pod life, life pods depicted in sci-fi,

Laura: 00:26:43

they're like little tiny things.

Laura: 00:26:45

This one is big enough for a table that you can soran wrap a whole guy to.

Laura: 00:26:52

Very strange.

Laura: 00:26:53

Zach, you can.

Laura: 00:26:56

Yeah, and you could tell Zach feels it is off.

Laura: 00:27:01

This whole thing is off.

Laura: 00:27:03

Do they find Garabaldi this way?

Laura: 00:27:05

Saran wrapped to the table, yeah.

Xhafer: 00:27:10

him next.

Laura: 00:27:13

True.

Laura: 00:27:14

Yeah.

Laura: 00:27:16

We do see his eyes flash open as he's on the table as a computer

Laura: 00:27:23

voice speaks to him, so, Hmm.

Xhafer: 00:27:29

Weta tries to

Laura: 00:27:47

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:27:50

haven't done

Laura: 00:27:54

The um, like.

Laura: 00:27:56

Sexual abuse vibes in the scene are very strong as, uh, it opens up with Yeah.

Laura: 00:28:06

And it opens up with him, you know, she carries Kosh around right.

Laura: 00:28:10

And he goes back into his counter suit and she tells him,

Laura: 00:28:14

you hurt me as you came out.

Laura: 00:28:16

And it's like, oh man, that's

Xhafer: 00:28:19

Yeah,

Laura: 00:28:19

pretty vivid right

Laura: 00:28:20

there.

Laura: 00:28:24

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:28:25

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:28:28

I, I needed

Laura: 00:28:31

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:28:33

so

Laura: 00:28:34

it's icky.

Laura: 00:28:37

Yeah.

Laura: 00:28:38

And it's, it's just enough that if you're not thinking about

Laura: 00:28:41

it, you might pass over it.

Laura: 00:28:42

But, uh, it's unpleasant to think about this, especially if you

Laura: 00:28:49

think of e Eli's relationships with the kashas as relationships like.

Laura: 00:28:55

Because she like is carrying their self, their spirit,

Laura: 00:29:00

something around in her body.

Laura: 00:29:02

Yeah.

Laura: 00:29:04

And she's had kind of this religious experience going to the VO space

Laura: 00:29:09

and being turned into their little, their little tool, I guess.

Laura: 00:29:14

I don't know how to say it.

Laura: 00:29:17

Uh, yeah, it's really gross the way that KO 0.0 treats her in a lot of levels.

Laura: 00:29:24

So, and, and she also asked for just basic respect and he says, no.

Laura: 00:29:31

He says, why do you think you deserve respect?

Laura: 00:29:35

Oh, oh, it's terrible.

Laura: 00:29:39

It's terrible.

Xhafer: 00:29:52

pride,

Xhafer: 00:29:58

get it

Xhafer: 00:30:05

going around preaching the sacrifices

Laura: 00:30:09

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:30:16

he puts up a

Xhafer: 00:30:24

previous

Laura: 00:30:26

I felt the same way.

Laura: 00:30:26

I was like, this is interesting

Laura: 00:30:28

that he's holding onto this, but I guess maybe like it's this last thing and we've

Laura: 00:30:32

gotta see him give up his last thing.

Laura: 00:30:43

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:30:44

Yeah.

Laura: 00:30:44

He's like, just let me have this one piece.

Xhafer: 00:30:47

there might be a, bit of

Laura: 00:30:51

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:30:54

captured

Laura: 00:30:59

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:31:05

Yeah,

Xhafer: 00:31:06

I, I, I,

Laura: 00:31:07

in a very

Laura: 00:31:07

triggering situation.

Xhafer: 00:31:16

he says

Laura: 00:31:25

Yeah, this conversation got extremely personal.

Laura: 00:31:30

I just can't believe it.

Laura: 00:31:34

I just can't.

Laura: 00:31:36

I mean, maybe depending on what age he was when he went to the Rangers, perhaps.

Laura: 00:31:41

I don't think

Xhafer: 00:31:42

gotta imagine

Laura: 00:31:43

specifically.

Xhafer: 00:31:48

I mean,

Laura: 00:31:51

May.

Laura: 00:31:51

Maybe it's

Laura: 00:31:52

that maybe he went to the Rangers really young, but I was like, look at his face.

Laura: 00:31:56

Just look at him.

Xhafer: 00:31:59

I mean, I feel like I have accidentally

Xhafer: 00:32:08

like

Laura: 00:32:08

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:32:09

I feel like that's happened to me, and I feel like it would've happened to

Xhafer: 00:32:11

him

Laura: 00:32:15

I mean, yeah, look at him.

Laura: 00:32:17

I don't know.

Laura: 00:32:18

I just, that was, that was a bit of a leap for me.

Laura: 00:32:21

I was like, I need a more of a timeline of how old he is when he went to school.

Laura: 00:32:27

Like, gotta make me believe it.

Laura: 00:32:31

Jay Mihael.

Laura: 00:32:32

Sru Zinsky.

Laura: 00:32:33

I don't.

Xhafer: 00:32:34

doing his own only joined

Laura: 00:32:39

Right.

Laura: 00:32:39

And it's like, okay, well when, how old was your brother?

Laura: 00:32:42

How old were you?

Laura: 00:32:43

Like,

Xhafer: 00:32:44

how long is

Laura: 00:32:46

yeah, it seems like it's gotta be a while if you have to learn menari and then

Laura: 00:32:51

to be a badass martial arts fighter and

Laura: 00:32:55

zen.

Xhafer: 00:32:56

kind of

Xhafer: 00:32:59

and war starts to pick up,

Laura: 00:33:04

Yeah.

Laura: 00:33:06

And you're a ranger.

Laura: 00:33:07

And you're a ranger.

Laura: 00:33:09

And you are a ranger.

Laura: 00:33:12

Anyways, they encounter a strange pocket in hyperspace and it's only detectable

Laura: 00:33:17

because of the ship's rolon technology that has been incorporated into it.

Laura: 00:33:22

And surprise.

Laura: 00:33:24

It's a big pocket full of ORs.

Xhafer: 00:33:30

massive capital

Laura: 00:33:34

Yeah.

Laura: 00:33:36

And I think they tell us there's more than one, but we see one in our cgi.

Xhafer: 00:33:42

and I don't remember if it's this episode or

Laura: 00:33:48

I think it's the next Yeah.

Laura: 00:33:53

Yeah, yeah,

Xhafer: 00:33:58

yeah, we come back to He says he doesn't.

Xhafer: 00:34:06

I'm not saying he's but he has a

Xhafer: 00:34:10

How much

Laura: 00:34:11

yeah.

Laura: 00:34:13

Right.

Laura: 00:34:14

Is this

Laura: 00:34:14

just sort of happening in his subconscious, or is he actually

Laura: 00:34:17

remembering it when he is having these like nightmares and then.

Laura: 00:34:21

Flashes in his, uh, waking hours.

Laura: 00:34:25

Um

Xhafer: 00:34:46

By the way, there's some unknown ship heading straight for Babel on five.

Xhafer: 00:34:49

You might wanna

Laura: 00:34:51

Yeah.

Laura: 00:34:51

He's like, we saw it on some sensors.

Laura: 00:34:53

I

Xhafer: 00:34:54

Craziest

Laura: 00:34:56

Yeah.

Laura: 00:34:59

Yeah.

Laura: 00:34:59

Daly doesn't seem to make much of this.

Laura: 00:35:01

Like, we don't get really a reaction from her.

Laura: 00:35:04

Uh, but you know, we got big fridge to fry.

Laura: 00:35:08

We're trying to put together a fleet.

Laura: 00:35:09

We got one little ship coming.

Laura: 00:35:11

What, how bad could it be?

Xhafer: 00:35:13

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:35:15

fleet is gathering here, so maybe, maybe you're not as

Laura: 00:35:21

Yeah.

Laura: 00:35:22

Yeah.

Laura: 00:35:22

Maybe this one's just like, oh, I heard there was a fleet.

Laura: 00:35:25

I'm going to be a fleet.

Xhafer: 00:35:28

right?

Xhafer: 00:35:28

Yeah,

Laura: 00:35:29

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:35:31

Yeah,

Laura: 00:35:31

The, the Beki ambassador says too, that, you know, like I,

Laura: 00:35:36

I wanted to stay out of it.

Laura: 00:35:37

They wouldn't tell me anything.

Laura: 00:35:38

But these, uh, other races that.

Laura: 00:35:43

Don't want to go get killed are also going to be protesting you soon.

Laura: 00:35:49

I don't know when I don't know what's going on, they wouldn't tell me.

Laura: 00:35:52

But you might wanna look, you might wanna, I think he, he wants

Laura: 00:35:56

her to stop them and she's like, no, I'm not going to stop them.

Laura: 00:36:00

Free speech.

Laura: 00:36:01

Um, but I will go also exercise my own free speech.

Laura: 00:36:05

So it's the flip side of the coin.

Laura: 00:36:16

Yeah, he's gonna be whipped to death.

Laura: 00:36:20

Carta, he's got a serious, uh, dungeon going on, I guess.

Xhafer: 00:36:26

Lando

Laura: 00:36:32

Oh yeah, I remember that.

Xhafer: 00:36:35

vere looks

Laura: 00:36:38

Yeah.

Laura: 00:36:38

Veer sweet baby.

Laura: 00:36:40

Fear.

Laura: 00:36:41

He's not built for this.

Xhafer: 00:36:46

lash

Xhafer: 00:36:48

setting we're

Laura: 00:36:51

Yeah.

Laura: 00:36:54

He, uh, he realizes that he's no good to anybody dead, especially

Laura: 00:36:59

not the entire Narn home world.

Xhafer: 00:37:16

it has command

Laura: 00:37:20

Yeah.

Laura: 00:37:21

Which freaks everybody out.

Xhafer: 00:37:23

As it

Laura: 00:37:25

all the security.

Laura: 00:37:26

Yes, it definitely

Laura: 00:37:27

should.

Xhafer: 00:37:28

Wouldn't those be like Sheridan's command codes?

Xhafer: 00:37:31

Like

Laura: 00:37:33

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:37:33

wouldn't it be

Xhafer: 00:37:34

like, the captain's codes.

Xhafer: 00:37:37

that

Laura: 00:37:38

We're not all sharing a code, right.

Laura: 00:37:42

Like

Xhafer: 00:37:43

please,

Laura: 00:37:44

that.

Laura: 00:37:44

We've ta

Laura: 00:37:45

we talk about password security a lot on this show.

Xhafer: 00:37:49

For being a non-IT podcast,

Xhafer: 00:37:53

he manages

Laura: 00:37:55

Yeah.

Laura: 00:37:56

I feel like it's

Laura: 00:37:57

bad, bad password security if we all have the same command code.

Xhafer: 00:38:01

like peekaboo and it just lets him dock.

Xhafer: 00:38:03

It's like, oh, scare of bald these's

Laura: 00:38:09

Yeah.

Laura: 00:38:09

It should have been clear at this point.

Laura: 00:38:11

Who's it coming, but

Xhafer: 00:38:13

mean, I get

Laura: 00:38:18

Oh yes.

Laura: 00:38:19

And they're definitely hype in the drama here because we get like cuts between this

Laura: 00:38:23

escalating protest and the crowd getting aggressive toward Dylan and linear.

Laura: 00:38:32

And then like the dramatic reveal of who's coming off the spaceship.

Laura: 00:38:40

It's played very well.

Xhafer: 00:38:43

do manage to tell everyone the secret plan

Laura: 00:38:50

The draws haven't been exactly coded as a intelligent,

Laura: 00:38:55

like super intelligent race.

Laura: 00:38:56

Right.

Xhafer: 00:38:57

mean, can you imagine 2nd, bitching about D-Day about to happen.

Laura: 00:39:07

Yeah, especially if you have the internet at that time, which we didn't,

Xhafer: 00:39:14

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:39:15

Right.

Laura: 00:39:17

but yeah, that'd be a problem.

Xhafer: 00:39:21

is gathering around space

Xhafer: 00:39:23

clearly see

Laura: 00:39:26

Yeah.

Laura: 00:39:29

Yeah.

Laura: 00:39:34

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:39:39

getting everyone riled up to join

Laura: 00:39:50

I just wanna point out that on the third episode, he arose from the dead.

Laura: 00:39:58

The Jesus parallels are strong, my friends.

Xhafer: 00:40:04

I actually have a whole conversation

Laura: 00:40:11

Yeah, there's an another one that's a good spot to put it, so I, I'm

Laura: 00:40:15

sure we're on the same vibe, so, okay.

Xhafer: 00:40:27

together

Xhafer: 00:40:31

and the shadows are dicks.

Laura: 00:40:33

Yeah.

Laura: 00:40:34

Surprise.

Laura: 00:40:35

It's all

Laura: 00:40:35

bad.

Laura: 00:40:36

This whole time.

Laura: 00:40:38

Garabaldi cannot stop side eyeing Lorian.

Laura: 00:40:42

He is not cool with this guy.

Laura: 00:40:45

And I do feel a little bit like we probably should have

Laura: 00:40:49

interrogated Sheridan's return a little bit more everybody

Xhafer: 00:40:55

I

Laura: 00:40:56

we do

Laura: 00:41:00

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:41:01

it ties into

Laura: 00:41:05

Yeah.

Laura: 00:41:06

I just was like, We know that Anna Sheridan came back from Zha Doom altered.

Laura: 00:41:14

We know that Morden has been on and off Zha doom and is theoretically altered,

Laura: 00:41:20

like why do we immediately trust Sheridan

Laura: 00:41:24

and Garibaldi doesn't?

Xhafer: 00:41:25

yeah, I have to imagine that Sheridan

Laura: 00:41:30

Yeah, I would've liked to see that addressed.

Xhafer: 00:41:36

a little lip service paid to

Laura: 00:41:43

I think that's in the next episode.

Laura: 00:41:45

Yeah.

Laura: 00:41:46

So they do kind of like, eh,

Xhafer: 00:41:50

feels like

Laura: 00:41:54

Yeah, they blend seamless.

Laura: 00:42:00

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:42:03

and

Laura: 00:42:06

Mm-hmm.

Xhafer: 00:42:07

Lanier again,

Laura: 00:42:08

I know, right?

Laura: 00:42:10

And he's the one who got them outta

Laura: 00:42:11

there.

Laura: 00:42:12

Yeah.

Laura: 00:42:15

Nobody listens to poor linear.

Laura: 00:42:19

Nobody cares about Lanier.

Xhafer: 00:42:24

is actually a death fucking Everyone's gonna die to credits.

Laura: 00:42:31

Yeah.

Laura: 00:42:32

What a, what a uplifting note to end this episode on.

Laura: 00:42:37

I think it's real good.

Laura: 00:42:39

Uh, I would give it, I think I'm gonna give a four cuz I like it a lot, but I,

Laura: 00:42:46

I feel like we've still got room to grow.

Xhafer: 00:42:49

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:42:50

I, sat this one at

Laura: 00:42:52

Okay.

Laura: 00:42:55

Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:42:56

it feels better than a three, but not

Laura: 00:42:59

Okay.

Xhafer: 00:43:01

But I don't have any

Laura: 00:43:09

I'm, uh, I'm always down for car.

Laura: 00:43:11

Taja being crazy.

Laura: 00:43:13

He's crazy and he's really amping it up in this episode.

Laura: 00:43:17

It gets even better in the next episode, I really enjoy the, like,

Laura: 00:43:22

dramatic cuts that we get and even the silly Jesus metaphor, it all,

Laura: 00:43:29

uh, it all hits real good for me.

Laura: 00:43:31

So this is a four episode for me,

Xhafer: 00:43:40

again in a next week.

Xhafer: 00:43:43

episode

Xhafer: 00:43:45

falling

Laura: 00:43:48

Mm.

Laura: 00:44:04

That's a lot.

Xhafer: 00:44:05

It's a lot you know, when I read this, Sheridan has a surprise for

Xhafer: 00:44:14

That's one way I got things to say about that and you know, who else will have

Xhafer: 00:44:21

Our guest week, Ben's

Laura: 00:44:24

Yay.

Laura: 00:44:25

I'm so

Laura: 00:44:26

excited.

Xhafer: 00:44:27

I'm super excited.

Xhafer: 00:44:29

Ben and I will launching our new podcast the day be talking about that

Xhafer: 00:44:41

But before

Laura: 00:44:42

Great.

Xhafer: 00:44:43

I've got

Laura: 00:44:46

Do tell

Xhafer: 00:44:47

Everyone else on Jeremy Siegel, friend The Friend has been accepted,

Xhafer: 00:44:53

so let me say even more so than normal.

Xhafer: 00:44:56

Thank you Jeremy for our lovely You can find more of two.bandcamp.com, and also

Xhafer: 00:45:08

May album just dropped.

Laura: 00:45:11

it did.

Laura: 00:45:12

Mm-hmm.

Laura: 00:45:13

I saw it dropped.

Laura: 00:45:14

last night.

Laura: 00:45:16

Fantastic.

Laura: 00:45:17

Also, thank you to Angry Duck Time Machine on Instagram for our podcast artwork.

Laura: 00:45:32

Yes.

Laura: 00:45:34

And thank you so much, because I know it was hard this week.

Laura: 00:45:40

Yeah.

Laura: 00:45:41

And thank you to Yeah.

Xhafer: 00:45:44

everyone.

Laura: 00:45:46

Yeah, I was gonna say thank you for listening.

Xhafer: 00:45:49

appreciate it.

Xhafer: 00:45:51

their

Laura: 00:45:57

All right.