Black Hawk Downer

Xhafer: 00:00:23

Hey, this is uh,

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: 00:00:26

Laura: Hey.

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: 00:00:27

Xhafer: this is, uh, this is, who are You?

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: 00:00:29

You found the podcast.

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: 00:00:31

Normally we watch sci-fi

television, reasonably well done

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: 00:00:36

Laura: Uh,

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: 00:00:37

Xhafer: et cetera, et cetera.

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: 00:00:39

But

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Laura: yeah.

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Xhafer: today we're having a

bit of a Black Hawk Downer.

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Laura: You wanna explain to the audience

one more time why we watch this movie?

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Xhafer: yeah.

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So we watched this movie well, one,

we had picked Blade Runner because of,

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because of Edward James almost, right?

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Easy, easy pick.

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Xhafer: So while I was reading so, so

Say We All, which is, where's it on my

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bookshelf, mark Altman and Edward Gross's.

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Oral history of Battlestar Galactica,

both the seventies the two thousands

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reboot, and also a little bit of Caprica.

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Blood and Chrome other failed

reboots are covered as well.

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Laura: Oh, no.

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Other failed reboots.

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I don't know if we've discussed that

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Xhafer: Well, there was one

planned before Ron Moore

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Laura: Oh, we did talk about that.

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Okay.

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Xhafer: Singer of X-Men fame.

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Xhafer: And, uh, so that's

covered in the book and stuff.

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Anyways part of the, like you're going

to be a director on Battlestar Galactica,

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they would send them a little gift as

their first time, and in it were three

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DVDs, which was Blade Runner 2001 and

Space Odyssey and Black Hawk Down.

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These make up the visual

language of Battlestar Galactica.

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If you watch these three movies and

understand what these movies are doing

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visually, you'll be able to make a

good episode of Battlestar Galactica,

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which I agree with because god damn,

the cinematography in this movie was.

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Fantastic.

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Laura: Truly.

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Xhafer: it was awe inspiring

in the best and worst ways.

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Laura: Yep.

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That is a good way to put it.

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because we've already watched Blade Runner

for the podcast, we were kind of doing

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the coin flip between Black Hawk Down

and: 2001

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Xhafer: seen 2001 a number of times.

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Yeah.

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Laura: Okay.

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Yeah.

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We've both seated a number of times.

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I do find it hard to stay awake.

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You know, some of that

soundtrack is just really like.

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Soothing it's not particularly

a fast-paced movie.

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And yeah, I was just at a point where

I was like, you know, I'm not sure I

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can do that one for podcast right now.

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Uh,

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Xhafer: We chose this,

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Laura: this one.

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Xhafer: neither of us had seen before.

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We both missed this one.

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Laura: Yep.

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Hey, I'm gonna out myself as so super

ignorant before we watch this movie.

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Like, not familiar with the book.

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It's based on not the

best student of history.

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I think we've talked

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Xhafer: I mean this is like a

weird, like obviously it was enough

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for a book and a movie, but this

was not like a big deal thing.

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This was one of many police actions

that took place in the eighties and

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nineties to help secure freedom.

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Like there's

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Laura: We were

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Xhafer: stories like this

Of American Imperialism.

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Yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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We were kids.

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Um, we were actual children.

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Yeah.

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Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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so walking into this movie, I knew

there's a helicopter that goes down

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and I know we have to rescue people

from helicopter that goes down.

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I thought, honest to God, Ben is

gonna die hearing this, that the

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black hawk went down in a jungle, and

that's why it was so hard to rescue

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people and made it complicated.

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Xhafer: would've been preferable.

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Probably.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Jungle would've been better than this.

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Xhafer: I mean, unless it was like

a jungle with the predator in it.

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I'm gonna try so hard to make

some jokes and not be insensitive.

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Like, it's not a funny movie.

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It's, it, it was not an enjoyable movie.

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It was a good movie.

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I, I, I wanna make this

distinction very clear.

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This movie, this movie is important.

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This movie says important

things about war.

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It does not glorify war.

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In ways that make people want

to go sign up for the military.

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Um, but I do think that if you enjoy this

movie, if you watch this movie and it

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makes you feel happy, you need therapy

so badly, like, stop listening to this

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podcast and go find a therapist, um,

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Laura: go to better

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Xhafer: yeah, please, please get

help because dear God, like I, I

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think I, God, I said it to someone.

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I have a friend, I was talking to

a friend who's a vet, about it, and

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it was just like, I think if you

enjoy this movie, you're a sociopath.

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Like you can, you can

appreciate this movie.

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You can uh, like the

artistry of this movie.

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That's fine.

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: Um, it's a very

pretty movie at times.

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But wow.

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And on top of it, like.

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Today specifically is a very weird

day for the military and uh, listener.

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We are recording this at 9:28 PM

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Laura: Eastern Time.

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Xhafer: Eastern Time on June 17th

27 minutes ago, the Irani Supreme

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leader said the battle begins.

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Nothing's happened since then.

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And they've warned that

there's gonna be stuff.

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US military airplanes and aircraft

carriers are currently heading out towards

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uh, Iran, uh, Israel and Iran have been

sending missiles between each other for, I

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think we're on day four or five right now.

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Um, by the time this episode

comes out, uh, we could

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Laura: Who knows?

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Xhafer: well, and this

comes out in two weeks.

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We're not super far ahead right now.

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: a very real possibility we

will have gone to war and be out of

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war by the time this episode airs.

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Depending on how that goes because it's

making, there's a lot of stuff that's

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making me very nervous about the use

of a lot of escalated weaponry here.

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Laura: Yeah.

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This is a very strange context

to be trying to review a

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war ish movie for you all.

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So I just want you to know that we're in

this interesting position and hey, if you

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guys don't wanna engage with this when it

comes out in two weeks, like don't we love

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Xhafer: oh yeah.

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If everything's gone to shit.

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Laura: Yeah.

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consider this blanket content

warning for military stuff.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: Be free if you don't wanna do this,

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Xhafer: We, I.

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Laura: we'll come back for BSG maybe.

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Xhafer: yikes.

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Uh,

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So speaking of BSG, just fair.

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When we start this movie, did your

heart like jump out of its chest

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Xhafer: my first note and I have

six pages of notes and my first

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four pages of notes are like the

first 40 minutes of this movie.

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And then at minute 55 or whatever,

when the titular Black Hawk goes down,

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it's like a page and a half of notes

for the rest of the movie because it's

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mostly just gunfire at that point.

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Um, uh, but on my first fucking

note, the fucking font is the same.

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Uh, this is Bank Gothic.

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If you were unaware.

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Laura: I, so Aaron like stopped

for a second while I was writing

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stuff and he's furiously Googling

and he's like, you know what?

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I don't have time for this right now.

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We were watching the movie while the

toddler was taking her afternoon nap,

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Xhafer: Oh, great timing.

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Laura: we were on a time schedule.

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Xhafer: No worries.

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Got you.

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Laura: so, like our options are

during toddler nap or at bedtime,

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Xhafer: Neither of which are good.

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Laura: took the least bad option,

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: but yes, please tell me more about

this because we wanted to know more about

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Xhafer: All right.

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So this is Bank Gothic.

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It's everywhere.

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Um, it is the Modern Warfare

bit on Call of Duty boxes.

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It is tons of album

covers and movie posters.

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It is the word original on

Irish Spring original packaging.

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This shit is everywhere.

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I found a Tumblr called

Bank Gothic everywhere.

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But it made me sign in after

scrolling five posts and fuck that.

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If you are a website that makes

me sign in to view anything.

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Fuck you.

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I'm out.

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I refuse.

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Laura: We need a friend

who has a Tumblr already,

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because I don't either.

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So Beth, that seems like

something Beth might have.

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Xhafer: Um,

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Laura: love a font.

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We stand a good font.

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Xhafer: So we get this quote

and then we, we go over to the

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Laura: Oh yes.

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Tell us about the quote,

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Plato has a quote here,

only the dead of seeing.

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The end of war.

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You want a a not so well.

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Again, it doesn't

really, it's just a fact.

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Not Plato.

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Laura: not Play-Doh.

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Xhafer: No, this was actually uh,

George Santiana, but General Douglas

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MacArthur in a address to West

Point 38 years after this was said

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to give a timeframe on how old this

quote is, misattributed it to Plato.

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Laura: Way to go.

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Dougie.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Nailed it.

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It doesn't sound anything

like Play-Doh to me.

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I don't know.

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I I heard it like, I,

well, I didn't hear it.

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I read it and I'm all

like, that's not Play-Doh.

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That doesn't sound like Play-Doh at all.

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Laura: I think at this point in history,

if we hear a quote and they say it's from

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Plato, there's like a really good chance.

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It's not Plato at this point.

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Right.

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People just wanna attribute

smart thing to smart guy.

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Xhafer: well, like, you know, Play-Doh

was around for like x number of years and

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we are at a multitude of years past that.

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Laura: Correct.

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Xhafer: You know, or like 40 or

50 times as many years as Plato

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lived have occurred since he died.

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So realistically it just more stuff gets

said and Misattributed every year and he

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doesn't have a chance to say anything new.

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So

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Laura: But this movie was what, 19.

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They were probably filming in

: 1999

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Xhafer: this movie came

out in December of: 2001

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Laura: Yes.

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Xhafer: Uh,

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Laura: What a great time to drop.

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I do remember this movie coming out

and I remember all of the accolades

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and such, but I never had any

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Xhafer: There's some stuff about

the, this movie coming out.

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One, this movie came out like two

weeks after a fellowship of the Ring.

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Laura: Oh really?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: Wow.

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I remember that one vividly.

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'cause I saw Fellowship of

the Ring 12 times in theaters.

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Xhafer: I'm so

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Laura: I'd never,

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Xhafer: a rewatch.

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We should do that.

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We should, when, when we're on

group vacation together, we should

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a hundred percent e Everyone

who is going is down for this.

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I, every single person,

it would be down for this.

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We should really do this.

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We should

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Laura: And I think Owen would love it.

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He's, we, he seemed like the first

part of Fellowship of the Ring, but

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when, when we tried to watch it with

him, he was just young enough that

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when we got to the Nas GUL it was

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Xhafer: It, it will be

too scary for Henry.

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Um, and I don't know that his attention

span can handle doing it in a marathon.

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Laura: yeah,

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Xhafer: Um, but I am so here for it.

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That's a great way to spend some like

afternoons when it's hot out in August.

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Laura: yeah.

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Wow.

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So I didn't really place those two

movies together in the, in the timeline,

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Xhafer: there is a

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Laura: it makes total sense

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Xhafer: movie in this timeline

that has overlap in actors that's

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gonna make you go, what the hell?

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Laura: Please do.

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Okay.

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All

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Xhafer: no, no, no, no, no.

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We'll get to it.

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We'll get to it.

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We'll get to it.

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I got notes about, I got notes

about it somewhere in my, it's not

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on my page that we're on right now.

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It's somewhere, somewhere down here.

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So we're gonna kick that.

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Can we open in Somalia.

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It's the early nineties and shit sucks.

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Laura: Yes, it is super suck.

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Xhafer: It's fucking terrible.

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Laura: we, so I, I think it

is: 1992

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Xhafer: it's nine.

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It's 19 91, 2, and three over

the course of this tech scroll.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Okay.

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So in the, the 91, 92 ish timeframe,

we get a huge famine across Africa,

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Xhafer: there's starvation

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: war,

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Laura: And in Somalia, they tell

us that 300,000 people have died.

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Xhafer: which is insane.

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Uh, but yeah, it's a, it's a lot of

people, US Marines roll into, stabilize

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the region and get food to the people.

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Remember when our military

would do that, you know,

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Laura: yeah, yeah.

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Well, I, I think they, they tell us

it's like the UN is in charge of feeding

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people, but the US military obviously has

things that we can do for that effort.

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Security, a lot of it.

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And what I was reading, I'm not

gonna pretend to be an expert about

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this, but I accidentally did the

most research I've ever done for

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our podcast after I watched this

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: 'cause I was freaking fascinated.

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so they're telling us that the situation

at this, this, um, he was a politician.

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He's positioned himself as a warlord.

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Mr.

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Hadid is.

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Taking the UN food supplies for his people

and allowing other people to starve.

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Right?

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And the UN was there trying

to distribute food supplies.

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He's taking them away and he has

started like targeting the UN soldiers.

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So I think there were Pakistani

soldiers that were killed.

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Yes.

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And other members of the UN

soldiers targeted and attacked.

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And so the UN was like, we need

some help defending ourselves

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from the sky so we can do the

humanitarian thing and feed everyone.

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And that's how we wound up with such

a US presence in Somalia at this time.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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so We finally get the

movie starting proper here.

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October, 1993 we're at that Red

Cross distribution site where

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a deed soldiers opened fire on

civilians to take that food shipment.

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The soldiers ask for permission

to be heroes and are denied.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Rules of engagement.

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We are not allowed to engage

them until they actually

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engage us, not the civilians.

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Xhafer: The soldiers take the

food to Mogadishu, where Eric

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Bonna is just hanging out

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: the cast in this movie.

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Laura: Yeah.

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I, I was so confused.

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I was like, what is he doing?

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Why are we here?

335

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Like, ridley Scott I read, made the

call to put their names at the top

336

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of their helmets when we get into

actual action because he was afraid

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the audience wouldn't be able to

tell all these white dudes apart.

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And that was a good fucking call

my man, because I struggled until

339

: 00:16:52

I had their names at the top of

the helmets, knowing who was who.

340

: 00:16:56

Unless you had a nice, distinctive

face, which some of our actors do, but

341

: 00:17:00

Xhafer: no, the people

subtitles were very nice.

342

: 00:17:03

Laura: I needed it.

343

: 00:17:04

Xhafer: American soldiers very politely.

344

: 00:17:06

Escort Osman at Otto.

345

: 00:17:09

An arms dealer here.

346

: 00:17:11

this is where the fir, this is

the first scene we get where I'm

347

: 00:17:14

really like, this is Battlestar.

348

: 00:17:17

When it's, uh, Garrison and Otto talking.

349

: 00:17:20

The play with the shadows and the light

feels very Battlestar Galactica to me.

350

: 00:17:25

They talk about America interjecting

themselves, places Garrison

351

: 00:17:30

reiterates what we got from the crawl.

352

: 00:17:32

300,000 dead.

353

: 00:17:33

It's not war, it's a

genocide for perspective.

354

: 00:17:38

As of my notes a couple days ago, 'cause

I can't say as of recording anymore,

355

: 00:17:43

Laura: No.

356

: 00:17:44

Oh, no.

357

: 00:17:44

Xhafer: the Israel Gaza conflict

that's currently ongoing is known

358

: 00:17:49

to have about 55,000 killed.

359

: 00:17:53

Then there's the Russia, Ukraine War.

360

: 00:17:55

That's been going for a

couple years at this point.

361

: 00:17:58

Uh, Now this is all over the place

for how many people have died.

362

: 00:18:03

Because,

363

: 00:18:04

Laura: accurate numbers

364

: 00:18:05

Xhafer: like six months in Russia

was just like, we've killed a million

365

: 00:18:08

Ukrainians and has not said shit since.

366

: 00:18:11

And like the day after, Ukraine was all

like, what the fuck are you talking about?

367

: 00:18:16

I guess we've killed a million Russians.

368

: 00:18:17

And those are still the official numbers.

369

: 00:18:20

Laura: Oh, so unknown.

370

: 00:18:22

Somewhere between zero and 2 million.

371

: 00:18:24

Got it.

372

: 00:18:25

Xhafer: a lot of estimates,

and they're all over the place.

373

: 00:18:30

Um, but I would say 300,000 is probably

the bottom of where it's actually at

374

: 00:18:37

after years of conflict with another

million in casualties between both sides.

375

: 00:18:43

Laura: Sure.

376

: 00:18:43

Okay.

377

: 00:18:44

Xhafer: So that, that's how, and that's

from starvation and minor conflict.

378

: 00:18:50

Minor conflict, not international war.

379

: 00:18:55

Laura: Right, right.

380

: 00:18:56

Xhafer: Um, not full on civil war.

381

: 00:18:58

This is all in fighting and warlords

and stuff, and it's hit that level.

382

: 00:19:03

Laura: We're still doing it guys.

383

: 00:19:05

Xhafer: Yeah.

384

: 00:19:06

Well,

385

: 00:19:06

Laura: the 21st century.

386

: 00:19:07

We're still doing it.

387

: 00:19:12

So maybe this as good a time

as any to talk about it.

388

: 00:19:16

Xhafer: Which got

389

: 00:19:17

Laura: have we ever talked

about my experience watching

390

: 00:19:19

Hotel Rwanda for the first time?

391

: 00:19:22

Xhafer: I don't think

392

: 00:19:23

Laura: Okay.

393

: 00:19:24

So this is also going to be embarrassing

in that, you know, like I thought the

394

: 00:19:29

Black Hawk down was about a jungle rescue.

395

: 00:19:32

Um, so Hotel Rwanda,

have you ever seen it?

396

: 00:19:35

Xhafer: No.

397

: 00:19:36

Laura: It came out around

a little after this time.

398

: 00:19:40

'cause I would've been in college and, you

know, as you do in college, you like want

399

: 00:19:45

to feel more educated in Cosmopolitan.

400

: 00:19:50

And so you watch the things that are like

the Oscars the, the Oscar nominees, right?

401

: 00:19:57

And so I was like, well,

this is a smart movie.

402

: 00:20:00

And I decided to watch

it, like on my day off.

403

: 00:20:03

You know, I'm, I'm

chilling, I'm by myself.

404

: 00:20:06

my roommates are not home.

405

: 00:20:09

And I'm a sensitive soul sometimes.

406

: 00:20:13

And it started to really like weigh

on me because the events of Hotel

407

: 00:20:18

Rwanda happened I think in 1994.

408

: 00:20:21

Like it was not long after

the events of Black Hawk down.

409

: 00:20:25

Xhafer: Okay.

410

: 00:20:27

Laura: And it really hit me hard

that this had happened during my

411

: 00:20:31

lifetime and I never knew about it.

412

: 00:20:34

Like I never heard about it and

I wasn't really processing that.

413

: 00:20:39

Like Lori we're a literal child.

414

: 00:20:41

The adults around you were probably

protecting you from this sort of level

415

: 00:20:45

of news if they were even getting this

level of news because it was the nineties.

416

: 00:20:52

And I'm watching this movie by myself

and there's some really graphic, because

417

: 00:20:58

it is genocide as well in Rwanda, and

it's a little bit more active genocide.

418

: 00:21:03

and I won't spoil the movie for anyone.

419

: 00:21:06

If you haven't seen it.

420

: 00:21:07

You should see that one too.

421

: 00:21:09

This is, this is an important movie

and that one's also an important movie.

422

: 00:21:13

but as the active genocide scenes are

taking place, I just started like sobbing

423

: 00:21:20

and I called my boyfriend at the time.

424

: 00:21:22

We are still friends, him and I dunno how,

but I called him and I was just sobbing.

425

: 00:21:30

I was like, I can't believe

they're killing everyone.

426

: 00:21:32

And he was like, what

are you talking about?

427

: 00:21:36

Where are you?

428

: 00:21:37

What is happening?

429

: 00:21:38

Because I didn't know context, and I'm

just crying about them killing everyone.

430

: 00:21:45

And then I have to explain, oh, I'm,

I'm watching this movie by myself.

431

: 00:21:48

And he was like, Laura, you never should

have watched that movie by yourself.

432

: 00:21:52

Don't you know yourself?

433

: 00:21:53

And I was like, well, I

didn't know what it was.

434

: 00:21:55

A bout.

435

: 00:21:57

but one of the reasons that that

active genocide was not interfered

436

: 00:22:06

with by the US at all was because

of the events of this movie.

437

: 00:22:11

Xhafer: Ugh.

438

: 00:22:11

Okay.

439

: 00:22:12

Laura: Ultimately, historically, a lot

of historians are like, because this

440

: 00:22:15

went so poorly when other things were

happening, the US was much less inclined

441

: 00:22:22

to offer any assistance to anyone.

442

: 00:22:25

So

443

: 00:22:26

Xhafer: Cool.

444

: 00:22:27

Laura: cool, cool.

445

: 00:22:29

History is important and I wish

I had a better grasp of it.

446

: 00:22:36

Xhafer: Well, we get to

live a lot of it, so.

447

: 00:22:39

Laura: That's true.

448

: 00:22:40

We're doing it all the time.

449

: 00:22:41

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

450

: 00:22:43

A real Elvis looking motherfucker

hangs out of a helicopter before

451

: 00:22:46

talking to Obi one Kenobi.

452

: 00:22:49

That's a sentence I wasn't

expecting to write down ever.

453

: 00:22:53

Laura: Okay.

454

: 00:22:53

I didn't realize that this actor was

Orlando Bloom until, I don't know.

455

: 00:23:00

We were getting ready to go into Mogadishu

456

: 00:23:06

without the hair.

457

: 00:23:06

I had no idea.

458

: 00:23:07

Xhafer: Orlando Bloom?

459

: 00:23:09

Well, I mean, he had been filming

Lord of the Rings at that point.

460

: 00:23:13

I think Lord of the Rings might've

been done filming at this point.

461

: 00:23:16

If the first one came out.

462

: 00:23:17

They were, they filmed all three

back to back before, and then

463

: 00:23:21

Laura: Oh, did they

464

: 00:23:22

Xhafer: effects over a year each,

465

: 00:23:24

Laura: Hmm.

466

: 00:23:24

Okay.

467

: 00:23:25

Xhafer: So yeah, he would've

been done filming water.

468

: 00:23:27

The rings at this point.

469

: 00:23:28

Laura: You wanna know the

only actor I recognized?

470

: 00:23:32

Xhafer: Tom Hardy,

471

: 00:23:33

Laura: Nope.

472

: 00:23:34

Xhafer: Ian

473

: 00:23:34

Laura: Jamie Lannister,

474

: 00:23:35

Xhafer: yeah.

475

: 00:23:36

Jamie Lancaster's in this too.

476

: 00:23:37

Yep.

477

: 00:23:39

Laura: I think that he was

the only one, but that.

478

: 00:23:42

Might not be true, but Yeah.

479

: 00:23:43

I didn't clock IWiN McGregor either.

480

: 00:23:46

Xhafer: This would've been in between

Clone Wars or maybe before Clone Wars?

481

: 00:23:53

I don't know.

482

: 00:23:54

It depends on how much.

483

: 00:23:55

Time filming.

484

: 00:23:56

I'd have to do a ton of research to

know, but around the time he made

485

: 00:23:59

clone war, he would've made this movie.

486

: 00:24:01

Laura: Yeah.

487

: 00:24:02

Seriously though this cast list, lot of

non-Americans put non-American accents.

488

: 00:24:09

Yeah.

489

: 00:24:10

Xhafer: Lorca man, his

southern accent's so good.

490

: 00:24:14

Laura: Yeah.

491

: 00:24:15

Xhafer: Anyways so, uh, a chopper

picks up Eric Banna on a bike in the

492

: 00:24:19

desert while they grab some warthog.

493

: 00:24:21

As baby bloom gets settled in.

494

: 00:24:23

Jamie Lannister plays chess.

495

: 00:24:26

He is so young and sweaty here.

496

: 00:24:29

The sheen on him was all like my,

like my deep fake sense went off

497

: 00:24:34

was all like, is this a deep fake?

498

: 00:24:37

Jamie

499

: 00:24:37

Laura: Did they CGI, Jamie Lannister.

500

: 00:24:40

Xhafer: Like it doesn't, no.

501

: 00:24:41

And it's just no, he's

just that young and sweaty.

502

: 00:24:45

Laura: Mm-hmm.

503

: 00:24:45

Xhafer: that shine.

504

: 00:24:47

Sheen on him.

505

: 00:24:49

Laura: Yeah.

506

: 00:24:50

They, they really captured

and I was thinking about it.

507

: 00:24:52

I was like, man, this is October.

508

: 00:24:54

Like, whew, everybody is so sweaty.

509

: 00:24:58

Xhafer: Yep.

510

: 00:24:58

Um, after this, uh, no combat situation

is complete without a derogatory,

511

: 00:25:02

dehumanizing nickname for the enemy.

512

: 00:25:05

Every, every combat that the United

States military has found themselves

513

: 00:25:10

in, they found one of these.

514

: 00:25:12

in this one, we call the people

who are being starved to death.

515

: 00:25:16

Skinnies.

516

: 00:25:18

Laura: So some of the research I read,

and it's all internet research folks,

517

: 00:25:23

so take that as you will, was that

the skinnies reference was actually.

518

: 00:25:31

A reference to the book

of Starship Troopers.

519

: 00:25:35

That's what they called

the enemy in the book.

520

: 00:25:38

Starship Troopers was the skinnies.

521

: 00:25:42

Xhafer: I don't remember that.

522

: 00:25:43

Laura: I don't either.

523

: 00:25:44

It's been so long since I

read the book that I was like,

524

: 00:25:47

Xhafer: It's been, I think it's

probably been in like eight or nine

525

: 00:25:49

years since I've read the book.

526

: 00:25:51

I

527

: 00:25:51

Laura: Uhhuh.

528

: 00:25:52

Xhafer: It's

529

: 00:25:53

Laura: And the book is such a different

tone than the movie that I can't like

530

: 00:25:57

Xhafer: The book is not satire

531

: 00:25:59

Laura: Yeah.

532

: 00:26:00

I can't use the movie

as any sort of gauge.

533

: 00:26:02

Xhafer: They're all fighting in Mex

suits and his dad survives series and

534

: 00:26:07

ends up joining the military and then he

ends up commanding his dad at one point.

535

: 00:26:10

Rico does, it's a whole

different experience.

536

: 00:26:14

Laura: Weird.

537

: 00:26:15

Weird satire and weird like dad issues.

538

: 00:26:18

Xhafer: yeah, it's, yeah, it's a lot about

the father-son relationship and turning it

539

: 00:26:22

on its head in a military command sense.

540

: 00:26:25

Um, but I don't remember skinny's.

541

: 00:26:28

Laura: Yeah, I don't know.

542

: 00:26:30

I, I was a teenager when I read that

book, so I could not tell you But

543

: 00:26:33

that's, I saw that on a couple places

on the internet, but you know, sometimes

544

: 00:26:37

on the internet we copy and paste the

shit that we find somewhere else, so

545

: 00:26:41

Xhafer: Yeah.

546

: 00:26:42

Did AI

547

: 00:26:42

Laura: someone in the Discord will know.

548

: 00:26:44

Xhafer: Ask Chat GPT and if chat GPT

says yes, then we know it's false.

549

: 00:26:49

Laura: I did not use chat

GPT for any of this research.

550

: 00:26:53

I used crazy ass Google keywords.

551

: 00:26:56

Like a normal person.

552

: 00:26:58

Xhafer: right.

553

: 00:27:02

fucking yikes.

554

: 00:27:03

Anyways, uh, a soldier has a

seizure while watching Steve Martin.

555

: 00:27:07

Laura: Mm-hmm.

556

: 00:27:07

Xhafer: we see, uh, Jason Isaacs,

captain Luca here says he's going home.

557

: 00:27:12

He has epilepsy.

558

: 00:27:14

Laura: Yeah.

559

: 00:27:15

Xhafer: Josh Hartnett takes

over his responsibilities.

560

: 00:27:18

Laura: So Josh Hartnett is,

Everman is his character.

561

: 00:27:22

Xhafer: Yeah, something like that.

562

: 00:27:24

I did not use a single character

name in all of my notes.

563

: 00:27:27

I only refer to the

actors by their name or by

564

: 00:27:30

other parts they are in.

565

: 00:27:32

Laura: Oh crap.

566

: 00:27:33

I did the other thing.

567

: 00:27:36

I have only character names.

568

: 00:27:38

I don't know who these people

are except for Jamie Lannister.

569

: 00:27:43

Yeah, so Everman what I read about him.

570

: 00:27:46

So the book that details the whole

Black Hawk Down incident, the Battle of

571

: 00:27:51

Mogadishu really well has like almost a

hundred characters, like actual people.

572

: 00:28:01

And thank God Mr.

573

: 00:28:03

Ridley Scott did not wanna do

all a hundred people 'cause.

574

: 00:28:08

Laura would be not watching this movie.

575

: 00:28:10

It would be insane.

576

: 00:28:11

He trimmed it down to about 20 ish.

577

: 00:28:15

And so Evers men's character is a

composite of three other people.

578

: 00:28:20

And so he does actions that

the real everman as well as two

579

: 00:28:25

Xhafer: Two other characters,

580

: 00:28:26

Laura: yeah, two

581

: 00:28:27

Xhafer: Two, two other people who lived.

582

: 00:28:29

'cause the book is nonfiction, right?

583

: 00:28:32

Laura: right?

584

: 00:28:32

Yes.

585

: 00:28:33

So his actions are, are also

two other people's actions.

586

: 00:28:38

and there is one character that is

significant in our story that was

587

: 00:28:43

actually not a real person, and that is

because we had to take a real person out

588

: 00:28:50

of the story because he was convicted

in the year: 2000

589

: 00:28:57

And the Pentagon and the production

team were not key on like.

590

: 00:29:03

Xhafer: Yeah.

591

: 00:29:04

Laura: him any time of day.

592

: 00:29:05

Xhafer: Yeah.

593

: 00:29:06

Good call Pentagon in statements

I don't usually get to say, um,

594

: 00:29:12

Laura: broken clock.

595

: 00:29:13

Yes.

596

: 00:29:16

Xhafer: you know, there's a diner

in the Pentagon that's hella legit.

597

: 00:29:19

Laura: I would believe that.

598

: 00:29:20

Yeah.

599

: 00:29:21

Xhafer: Have we talked, you know,

I, I spent a month in the Pentagon.

600

: 00:29:25

Laura: I feel like I've

heard about the diner.

601

: 00:29:27

Okay.

602

: 00:29:28

Xhafer: I don't, I don't know if

this has ever come up on pod before.

603

: 00:29:30

Yeah.

604

: 00:29:31

That's a thing that happened in my life.

605

: 00:29:33

Laura: it's just between us.

606

: 00:29:34

I don't

607

: 00:29:34

Xhafer: Uh, it is part of

my two truths and a lie.

608

: 00:29:38

My, uh.

609

: 00:29:39

My public Two truths and a lie, not

my private, we're actually friends

610

: 00:29:43

to Truth and a Lie, which is way

different and not going on pod.

611

: 00:29:47

Um, although I will say one of those is

almost suing the TV show Supernatural.

612

: 00:29:52

Um, because I think

that's a story we've told.

613

: 00:29:55

Um, no.

614

: 00:29:56

One of my like, fun little, two

truths and a lie that I always

615

: 00:29:58

bring up is I've raced golf carts

in the basement of the Pentagon.

616

: 00:30:04

'cause that's, that seems

like an obvious lie, right?

617

: 00:30:07

Like it's way too absurd.

618

: 00:30:09

But no, that's, that's true.

619

: 00:30:11

That's something that's happened.

620

: 00:30:13

Laura: I feel like the Pentagon

has a basement for golf carts.

621

: 00:30:17

Yes.

622

: 00:30:18

Xhafer: the Pentagon is like

the 24th largest building in the

623

: 00:30:22

world, and it is five stories tall.

624

: 00:30:26

Laura: And you need golf

625

: 00:30:27

Xhafer: And it's the 24th

largest building in the world.

626

: 00:30:31

It is hard to describe how wide

the Pentagon is in terms that are

627

: 00:30:37

understandable by most brains.

628

: 00:30:41

It's one of something you have to see.

629

: 00:30:43

It is insanely massive.

630

: 00:30:45

And so when you need to take out

the trash you end up taking it

631

: 00:30:49

out in golf carts, driving around

in the basements of the Pentagon.

632

: 00:30:54

Laura: Yeah.

633

: 00:30:54

Xhafer: Not, not in like the,

like the bunker basements of

634

: 00:30:57

the Pentagon and stuff like The

635

: 00:31:00

Laura: Yeah.

636

: 00:31:00

The service

637

: 00:31:01

Xhafer: service basements.

638

: 00:31:02

Yeah, exactly.

639

: 00:31:07

So anyways, this is where the third movie

comes in because Josh Hart it, I'm like,

640

: 00:31:12

when the fuck did this movie come out?

641

: 00:31:14

And it's like December, 2001.

642

: 00:31:16

I'm all like, that's.

643

: 00:31:18

Wasn't Josh Harden Busy in 2001

and he was making Pearl Harbor.

644

: 00:31:23

Laura: Okay.

645

: 00:31:24

Oh,

646

: 00:31:24

Xhafer: made Pearl Harbor and then

he made this movie immediately after.

647

: 00:31:28

And then he took a break

from acting for a little bit

648

: 00:31:31

Laura: Fuck yeah.

649

: 00:31:34

Like,

650

: 00:31:34

Xhafer: right?

651

: 00:31:35

As his career was ready to blow up.

652

: 00:31:37

Um, yeah,

653

: 00:31:39

Laura: no, I'd take a

break too for one thing.

654

: 00:31:41

Like hopefully you've gotten

some money out of these gigs.

655

: 00:31:45

Like take it easy.

656

: 00:31:47

Xhafer: yeah.

657

: 00:31:48

But if anyone

658

: 00:31:49

Laura: these were intense gigs.

659

: 00:31:50

Xhafer: anyone was keeping score at

home, while we're talking about all

660

: 00:31:53

these movies that, you know, stand up

the military this was filmed in March,

661

: 00:31:59

2001 and released in December, 2001

662

: 00:32:03

Laura: okay.

663

: 00:32:04

Yeah.

664

: 00:32:04

Xhafer: and, uh, Pearl Harbor.

665

: 00:32:06

Par Pearl Harbor was

released in May of: 2001

666

: 00:32:12

So if you were like, Hey,

where are all these war movies

667

: 00:32:16

vis-a-vis September, 2001?

668

: 00:32:20

No reason.

669

: 00:32:20

Laura: Right.

670

: 00:32:22

They were actually, uh, filming before

671

: 00:32:25

Xhafer: Yes.

672

: 00:32:26

They, they had completed filming

well before September,: 2001

673

: 00:32:31

Laura: So I think part of a big

reason that I avoid a lot of war

674

: 00:32:35

movies is a, don't like the things

that come with war and BI am never

675

: 00:32:44

sure walking in if I'm gonna be

watching basically, a propaganda piece

676

: 00:32:50

Xhafer: Oh, yeah.

677

: 00:32:51

Laura: how great we are and

how great a necessary war is.

678

: 00:32:56

So I was a little surprised on this movie.

679

: 00:32:58

I, I went in with a, like dread

680

: 00:33:00

Xhafer: Yeah.

681

: 00:33:02

Now this movie, uh, I mean, this

movie does a great job of making

682

: 00:33:06

sure that the US is the good guys.

683

: 00:33:08

Laura: Well, yeah.

684

: 00:33:09

Xhafer: Despite being effectively, you

know, imperialist invaders depending

685

: 00:33:15

on whose perspective you're looking

at, obviously the people in Somalia

686

: 00:33:19

were not doing great things to their

people to prompt the UN to come in.

687

: 00:33:23

And then when the UN people, the Red Cross

are getting attacked, the military comes

688

: 00:33:27

in to stop them from getting attacked.

689

: 00:33:29

Like all, all of this tracks.

690

: 00:33:32

And I'm not, I'm not, but I'm also like,

you know, at the end of this movie we

691

: 00:33:36

get 19 names of the people who died.

692

: 00:33:38

And it's like, oh, plus

also a thousand Somalis.

693

: 00:33:42

Laura: Yeah.

694

: 00:33:42

And what I've read is that it's

like really actually very hard to

695

: 00:33:46

know how many Somalis they say in

this movie that it was a thousand.

696

: 00:33:50

But people wonder, you know,

we think it might've been

697

: 00:33:54

closer to 2000 or 3000 Somalis.

698

: 00:33:58

Xhafer: Well, we don't get a

single name for any of them.

699

: 00:34:01

Nor nor is there a single Somali

person involved in this production.

700

: 00:34:04

There's not a single

Somali actor in this film.

701

: 00:34:06

There's not a Somali consultant

in the making of this film.

702

: 00:34:10

Laura: Yep.

703

: 00:34:11

The extras, uh, that did the

work of the, like Somali militia.

704

: 00:34:18

The Royal Moroccan army

705

: 00:34:20

Xhafer: Okay.

706

: 00:34:21

Laura: is what I read.

707

: 00:34:22

So

708

: 00:34:23

Interesting.

709

: 00:34:23

But I have some things to

say about that at the end.

710

: 00:34:26

So let's just put a pin on that.

711

: 00:34:27

Xhafer: uh, we get to our mission

debrief and it goes down like

712

: 00:34:30

everything should not be a problem.

713

: 00:34:32

But last I checked, the movie isn't named.

714

: 00:34:35

Black Hawk remains in air

during uneventful seizure of

715

: 00:34:38

African warlord's top aids.

716

: 00:34:40

So I don't like their chances.

717

: 00:34:44

Laura: Yeah, there's a little bit

of looks around the table and you

718

: 00:34:50

know, we have someone who says, wait,

we're going in, in the afternoon.

719

: 00:34:56

Like without, I think I don't

remember the type of equipment

720

: 00:35:01

that the General said he requested,

721

: 00:35:04

Xhafer: Certain types of

722

: 00:35:05

Laura: he requested heavier equipment.

723

: 00:35:07

Xhafer: Yeah, he, yeah, he wanted,

not Black Hawk helicopters.

724

: 00:35:12

He wanted, he wanted some

725

: 00:35:14

heavier stuff that was gonna be

safer, I'm sure, for the pilots.

726

: 00:35:19

Laura: Yes.

727

: 00:35:20

More, more armored is what I took away.

728

: 00:35:24

And um, so we're just gonna go

in while they can see us coming

729

: 00:35:28

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

730

: 00:35:30

Laura: and not with the

equipment we wanted.

731

: 00:35:31

Everyone is taking it reasonably well.

732

: 00:35:35

We don't have like a little Battlestar

type blowup of your plan sucks, sir.

733

: 00:35:42

But maybe not.

734

: 00:35:44

Great.

735

: 00:35:45

Xhafer: Yeah.

736

: 00:35:46

Christian gets pulled from a

visit to the Moulin Rouge to

737

: 00:35:49

actually see combat Bad timing.

738

: 00:35:52

Laura: Hmm.

739

: 00:35:53

Xhafer: Josh Harnett gets the squad

prepped for his first command here.

740

: 00:36:00

Laura: Yeah.

741

: 00:36:01

Uh, we get some various like

soldier life kind of stuff where

742

: 00:36:06

they're starting to pack their gear

743

: 00:36:09

Xhafer: Yeah.

744

: 00:36:10

Laura: and somebody's

making fun of somebody else.

745

: 00:36:12

Like, we're not gonna need that shit.

746

: 00:36:14

Like, this is a 30 minute

afternoon operation.

747

: 00:36:17

You dumb dumb.

748

: 00:36:18

Xhafer: yeah.

749

: 00:36:18

Baby Tom Hardy is getting

written from Trainspotting.

750

: 00:36:21

A bunch of shit.

751

: 00:36:22

Laura: Yeah.

752

: 00:36:23

So I recognized that actor.

753

: 00:36:25

I had no idea his name, but I was like,

I've seen this goofy face somewhere.

754

: 00:36:29

Xhafer: That's a Tom Hardy

755

: 00:36:31

Laura: Yeah.

756

: 00:36:31

Yeah.

757

: 00:36:32

Xhafer: Pre Star Trek nemesis.

758

: 00:36:34

Tom Hardy.

759

: 00:36:38

Laura: We do see somebody.

760

: 00:36:41

Who is like, no, I've got

too much shit to carry.

761

: 00:36:44

And he takes the, like, armored plating

out of the back of his bulletproof vest.

762

: 00:36:49

Xhafer: Yep.

763

: 00:36:51

Laura: Yikes.

764

: 00:36:52

Yikes.

765

: 00:36:53

A whole bunch of times

during the beginning of this

766

: 00:36:56

movie, I was like, oh no.

767

: 00:36:58

Oh no,

768

: 00:36:59

Xhafer: Yep.

769

: 00:37:01

Laura: because I'm, I'm just

like hyper tuned to these things.

770

: 00:37:04

We, we pull the clerk, you know,

771

: 00:37:06

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

772

: 00:37:07

Laura: he's complained earlier in

the movie about, I go to all these

773

: 00:37:11

battlefields, but I only make the

coffee and I type the type these.

774

: 00:37:16

And, and now he's going.

775

: 00:37:19

And um, boy, it was like,

that guy's not gonna make it.

776

: 00:37:26

This guy that took his plate

out isn't gonna make it like

777

: 00:37:29

I was worried for everyone.

778

: 00:37:31

Xhafer: Yeah, I mean, baby Orlando

Bloom, who's just all like, I can't

779

: 00:37:36

wait to get in there and kill people.

780

: 00:37:39

I'm just like, oh dude, you're

not gonna make it to this fight.

781

: 00:37:42

Laura: Yeah, it was like,

well, you're first, yep.

782

: 00:37:45

Xhafer: that's, that's in a minute here.

783

: 00:37:47

Uh, the mission is about to go.

784

: 00:37:48

A few soldiers call home, leave letters.

785

: 00:37:51

Guy puts his blood type on his boots.

786

: 00:37:54

Laura: Mm-hmm.

787

: 00:37:54

Shout out own eggs.

788

: 00:37:55

Woo.

789

: 00:37:57

Xhafer: same.

790

: 00:37:59

Laura: All right.

791

: 00:38:00

Rock

792

: 00:38:03

Xhafer: very improbable.

793

: 00:38:06

We are probably maybe the only sci-fi

watch cast who has two oh negative hosts.

794

: 00:38:12

Laura: the only O negative sci-fi watch.

795

: 00:38:14

Xhafer: is a very real possibility.

796

: 00:38:16

We finally found our claim to fame Laura.

797

: 00:38:19

Laura: Yeah.

798

: 00:38:21

Woo.

799

: 00:38:23

You know what else is weird and

probably statistically weird

800

: 00:38:26

is both my children are o eggs.

801

: 00:38:29

Xhafer: that is, is is Aaron not?

802

: 00:38:32

Laura: We don't know 'cause he

hates getting his blood taken.

803

: 00:38:35

Xhafer: man.

804

: 00:38:36

You gotta do that like once a year.

805

: 00:38:39

Laura: I'm like, man, I'm gonna

walk you to the doctor's office

806

: 00:38:43

and be like, look, y'all.

807

: 00:38:45

I need to know.

808

: 00:38:46

I just need to know.

809

: 00:38:47

Xhafer: like, I, I will say though,

like I had a very strong phobia

810

: 00:38:51

of needles for a very long time.

811

: 00:38:53

I get it.

812

: 00:38:54

Um,

813

: 00:38:55

Laura: Yeah

814

: 00:38:55

Xhafer: 2021 rolls around.

815

: 00:38:58

It's January COVID vaccines are about

to be a thing, and in order to try

816

: 00:39:03

and psych myself up to not be afraid

of needles, I get my first tattoo.

817

: 00:39:07

Laura: Oh, okay.

818

: 00:39:09

Xhafer: worked.

819

: 00:39:10

Not only have I gotten two more

tattoos since then, but I'm also

820

: 00:39:13

not afraid of needles anymore.

821

: 00:39:15

Laura: You just like exposure yourself

822

: 00:39:17

Xhafer: percent.

823

: 00:39:17

Yeah.

824

: 00:39:18

Laura: Yeah.

825

: 00:39:18

So I don't remember what happens to

that guy, but that doesn't seem good.

826

: 00:39:23

Xhafer: Yeah.

827

: 00:39:25

Laura: we're about to

get on the helicopters.

828

: 00:39:27

We've got, we've got some

829

: 00:39:28

helicopters going in.

830

: 00:39:29

We've got, I think a total of four black

hawks and some little birds and a convoy.

831

: 00:39:35

We've got people that are

gonna be on the ground.

832

: 00:39:37

Xhafer: I found where we

are right at in my notes

833

: 00:39:40

Laura: Okay.

834

: 00:39:41

Xhafer: Says, this mission is

about to black hawk go down.

835

: 00:39:44

And then the next, the next line is, have

you ever thought about how a helicopter is

836

: 00:39:49

just a really big upside down lawnmower?

837

: 00:39:52

I promise I was not high

or drunk when I did this.

838

: 00:39:57

Laura: it did take you a while

839

: 00:39:59

Xhafer: took me hours.

840

: 00:40:01

Hours.

841

: 00:40:02

I think I watched this movie

for four hours for notes plus.

842

: 00:40:06

Laura: Just to give you some off

pod context, ladies and gentlemen.

843

: 00:40:10

I watched this movie one day, you

know, while the baby was napping.

844

: 00:40:15

And I texted Defer immediately

afterwards and I said, oh boy.

845

: 00:40:21

That was rough.

846

: 00:40:22

but if I did it, you

have to do it too by God.

847

: 00:40:28

And then Jair texted me the next

day in the morning, like when he

848

: 00:40:32

started, because he had like 15 pages

of notes on the font and then was

849

: 00:40:39

texting me a little bit periodically

throughout, and I was like, oh God.

850

: 00:40:45

Xhafer: it's been three hours

and I've made it 30 minutes.

851

: 00:40:49

Laura: Uh,

852

: 00:40:50

Xhafer: I think at one point

if I had, I texted you.

853

: 00:40:52

If I keep up at this pace, I

will finish right before dinner.

854

: 00:40:55

And I think I had started around 9:00 AM

855

: 00:40:59

Laura: yeah.

856

: 00:40:59

Yeah.

857

: 00:41:01

It's dense, y'all,

858

: 00:41:03

Xhafer: Uh, after this, as the choppers

move out, we get some of that classic

859

: 00:41:07

Battlestar Galactica near silence

as big vehicles are moving around.

860

: 00:41:14

This is another thing that we see a ton.

861

: 00:41:16

we get lots of like in, in battle stars,

like cockpit views, where you get little

862

: 00:41:22

glimpses of the battlefield behind here,

it's like the side of the helicopter is.

863

: 00:41:27

You know, like a little bit of the

frame, like Eric Bonna or Tom Hardy's

864

: 00:41:32

face is like two thirds of the frame.

865

: 00:41:34

And then you've got this like sliver of

like everything else that you need to be

866

: 00:41:38

knowing what's going on in and does a very

good job of communicating that way in a

867

: 00:41:44

way that Battlestar Galactica also does.

868

: 00:41:47

Laura: they did some really pretty

shots of the, the beach and the

869

: 00:41:51

coast as they're flying along.

870

: 00:41:53

'cause it seems like we're, we're kind

of coming along this coast to go into

871

: 00:41:56

Mogadishu and it is really pretty.

872

: 00:42:00

Xhafer: They, they comment on it that it's

almost a great place to go on vacation.

873

: 00:42:05

Laura: Yep.

874

: 00:42:06

What with all the famine and warlords?

875

: 00:42:08

Not so much, but

876

: 00:42:09

Xhafer: They get into the city here,

as the military starts to move in

877

: 00:42:15

this felt so much like the first

active metal gear solid forward to me.

878

: 00:42:19

Which I'm sure was a choice.

879

: 00:42:22

it does, that does not take place

in Somalia, but it does take place

880

: 00:42:26

like right on the other side of a

couple bodies of water from Somalia.

881

: 00:42:31

And uh, it, it's, I mean, Kajima,

the guy who makes this games

882

: 00:42:36

is such a moving nerd that it a

hundred percent was not an accident.

883

: 00:42:41

Laura: Yeah.

884

: 00:42:41

Xhafer: let's see, the troops pour out

of the choppers with legless falling

885

: 00:42:45

out as the chopper dodges an RPG.

886

: 00:42:49

They try and get him to a Humvee as teams

at the hotel have cleared the building and

887

: 00:42:53

captured everyone within in quick order.

888

: 00:42:58

Laura: Fun fact, I guess as much

as anything about this movie can be

889

: 00:43:02

called fun the Rangers that are like

dropping outta these helicopters,

890

: 00:43:11

they got actual rangers to do that

891

: 00:43:14

Xhafer: Uh, I would hope Yeah, it could.

892

: 00:43:17

Laura: Yeah.

893

: 00:43:18

Like actual trained people.

894

: 00:43:20

Um, they, this movie seemed to require

a lot of Pentagon cooperation, which

895

: 00:43:26

is probably part of the tone setting.

896

: 00:43:29

you know, if we want the actual

military assets, we have to dance

897

: 00:43:34

their dance up to a certain point.

898

: 00:43:36

And the, the real military nerds

will notice this, but I guess

899

: 00:43:40

there are some shots that are

not in Black Hawk helicopters.

900

: 00:43:44

Uh, they're in Huey's because.

901

: 00:43:47

They were waiting for permission

for the Blackhawks and trying

902

: 00:43:50

to do some filming and just had

to work with like what they had.

903

: 00:43:55

I couldn't tell you

what those scenes were.

904

: 00:43:56

It's all a helicopter to me, you guys.

905

: 00:44:00

Xhafer: There's like, I know there's

the ones that have like the seats

906

: 00:44:03

on the outside, and then there's

the ones that have the seats

907

: 00:44:05

on the inside that are bigger.

908

: 00:44:07

That's, that's as much as I got.

909

: 00:44:10

Laura: I can tell you that none of

these damn helicopters was airwolf

910

: 00:44:13

and I'm really sad about it.

911

: 00:44:15

Xhafer: If one of these was airwolf,

none of this would've happened.

912

: 00:44:20

If they had just had a jet helicopter,

they would've been able to dodge that Rrp.

913

: 00:44:23

G

914

: 00:44:24

Laura: Yep.

915

: 00:44:26

Yeah,

916

: 00:44:26

Xhafer: were you?

917

: 00:44:27

Laura: it's a damn shame

918

: 00:44:28

Xhafer: Humvee start heading

out with the captives.

919

: 00:44:31

Another rocket propelled grenade almost

takes out Christopher Robin, and it's

920

: 00:44:35

a lot of gunfire from this point on.

921

: 00:44:39

Laura: Yeah.

922

: 00:44:40

We got the captives actually

very quickly in this movie.

923

: 00:44:44

Like the, the, they told

us who the targets were.

924

: 00:44:47

They were some high up

lieutenants of a deed.

925

: 00:44:52

We weren't going for him,

but we were trying to get

926

: 00:44:55

some of his staff, basically,

927

: 00:44:58

and we got 'em.

928

: 00:44:58

We got 'em real quick.

929

: 00:44:59

And they're such a nothing.

930

: 00:45:01

They aren't like, do we ever

actually see these guys?

931

: 00:45:04

I don't even know.

932

: 00:45:08

Xhafer: yeah.

933

: 00:45:08

It's

934

: 00:45:09

Laura: the

935

: 00:45:09

the focus is on like how this thing

just spirals out of control, even

936

: 00:45:14

though we got what we came for.

937

: 00:45:17

Xhafer: Yeah.

938

: 00:45:18

a gunner gets taken out, so Eric

Bannon jumps on it and then 54 minutes

939

: 00:45:23

in the titular Blackhawk goes down.

940

: 00:45:26

Laura: Yeah,

941

: 00:45:28

it was a

942

: 00:45:29

Xhafer: this particular scene with

the gunner hit me fucking hard.

943

: 00:45:32

'cause one of my best friends was

a Humvee gunner in Afghanistan

944

: 00:45:38

for a number of years.

945

: 00:45:39

And to just see like how quick

this happens, was just like.

946

: 00:45:45

Like, I had to stop and like walk away for

a minute and just like, text him and just

947

: 00:45:51

be like, Hey, you, I, I know you're alive.

948

: 00:45:54

Obviously it's been, you know, 20 years

since you were in Afghanistan, almost.

949

: 00:45:59

But just thinking of you buddy,

you know, hope you're doing well.

950

: 00:46:04

Laura: Yeah.

951

: 00:46:05

We all have friends that

served in some capacity and.

952

: 00:46:09

We, we love them for it.

953

: 00:46:11

It's so complicated.

954

: 00:46:13

Um, I, I have a student right now

that served and watched this movie

955

: 00:46:20

over the weekend and it was like,

man, I kind of wanna say thank

956

: 00:46:24

you, but I don't want to be weird.

957

: 00:46:25

Don't be weird.

958

: 00:46:27

So I haven't been weird.

959

: 00:46:29

Xhafer: I, I, I have a, a

number of veteran friends, and

960

: 00:46:33

I don't know, I've always, uh.

961

: 00:46:34

some of them I had, I met in

college who had gotten out and had

962

: 00:46:39

done like, and, uh, you know, were

around and after their service.

963

: 00:46:44

And then some of my friends

went in after college.

964

: 00:46:48

Laura: Mm-hmm.

965

: 00:46:48

Xhafer: And so I, I don't know.

966

: 00:46:50

I've always, I've always

taken it upon myself.

967

: 00:46:55

Like, I think the best way I

can honor their sacrifices is

968

: 00:47:01

by being a very active pacifist.

969

: 00:47:05

Laura: I wish our society was

such that we didn't need them,

970

: 00:47:09

that we didn't need that.

971

: 00:47:10

Xhafer: Yeah.

972

: 00:47:11

Laura: Um, and I would like to build

toward that, but it seems like people are

973

: 00:47:17

messing it up for us, like actively right

974

: 00:47:20

Xhafer: Like actively write, like,

um, let me refresh CNN real quick.

975

: 00:47:25

Laura: Hopefully.

976

: 00:47:25

Don't

977

: 00:47:28

Xhafer: Okay.

978

: 00:47:30

Laura: you wanna, you wanna

like a happy tidbit from this

979

: 00:47:33

Xhafer: Yeah.

980

: 00:47:33

Is one

981

: 00:47:34

exists?

982

: 00:47:35

Laura: There, there's a happy tidbit.

983

: 00:47:37

Um, so when they were filming, the

set was like constantly pestered by

984

: 00:47:42

stray dogs running in and outta shots.

985

: 00:47:46

And Ridley Scott was like, no, this

is kind of authentic like this.

986

: 00:47:50

This makes sense for

this set in this setting.

987

: 00:47:53

Right.

988

: 00:47:54

And then eight dogs were adopted by the

production team and taken back to the us.

989

: 00:48:00

Xhafer: That's cool.

990

: 00:48:01

Laura: Yeah.

991

: 00:48:02

So some doggies got some

homes outta this movie.

992

: 00:48:06

Xhafer: Yeah.

993

: 00:48:07

When we get into combat here, the

language of the film speaks the same

994

: 00:48:11

as language is Battlestar Galactica.

995

: 00:48:13

We've got lots of fast cuts with

dialogue interspersed in between.

996

: 00:48:18

One of the things that struck me the

most about this movie and made me realize

997

: 00:48:23

how much we see it in Battlestar is the

difficulty of communication in combat.

998

: 00:48:29

Laura: Yes.

999

: 00:48:30

Xhafer: yelling at each other and

repeating each other in this movie.

: 1000

00:48:34,658 --> 00:48:38,048

And that's something that we

see all the time in Battlestar.

: 1001

00:48:38,988 --> 00:48:39,158

Laura: Yep.

: 1002

00:48:39,458 --> 00:48:44,408

And if you miss a word, like recent

episode of Battlestar, where we had

: 1003

00:48:44,408 --> 00:48:49,328

an exercise and some radios were

cutting out, like radios, cutting

: 1004

00:48:49,328 --> 00:48:54,223

out can mean a lot when you're in

this second by second situation.

: 1005

00:48:54,373 --> 00:48:54,663

Yeah.

: 1006

00:48:55,758 --> 00:48:59,958

Xhafer: We get after this, what's

probably my favorite shot of the movie.

: 1007

00:49:00,253 --> 00:49:00,451

Um,

: 1008

00:49:00,765 --> 00:49:05,425

so, Josh Harnett squad is

working their way to surround and

: 1009

00:49:05,425 --> 00:49:07,015

secure the Chopper crash site.

: 1010

00:49:07,945 --> 00:49:13,795

And then there's a group of Somali

soldiers working their way there as well.

: 1011

00:49:13,915 --> 00:49:19,765

And we get this overhead shot of

the two alleyways and both groups

: 1012

00:49:19,765 --> 00:49:22,045

working their way down in parallel.

: 1013

00:49:22,723 --> 00:49:22,943

Oh.

: 1014

00:49:22,943 --> 00:49:22,944

Oh

: 1015

00:49:23,863 --> 00:49:24,103

really?

: 1016

00:49:24,313 --> 00:49:24,663

Scott?

: 1017

00:49:25,813 --> 00:49:26,743

You did good.

: 1018

00:49:27,793 --> 00:49:28,333

Laura: So tense.

: 1019

00:49:28,723 --> 00:49:32,953

Xhafer: This is like the weirdest

movie in the Prometheus alien movie

: 1020

00:49:32,953 --> 00:49:38,363

series, but definitely, definitely

the best shot out of all of them,

: 1021

00:49:38,911 --> 00:49:39,201

Laura: Yeah.

: 1022

00:49:39,796 --> 00:49:44,236

Xhafer: which I guess technically would

be true because they did Cedar Earth.

: 1023

00:49:44,236 --> 00:49:47,836

So any movie he does that's

a historical movie would

: 1024

00:49:47,836 --> 00:49:49,876

technically count as in universe

: 1025

00:49:49,996 --> 00:49:52,306

Laura: in universe, it's cannon.

: 1026

00:49:52,306 --> 00:49:52,876

Xhafer: Canon.

: 1027

00:49:53,026 --> 00:49:53,356

Huh?

: 1028

00:49:54,916 --> 00:49:57,376

That was a throwaway joke, but

I'm thinking about it more now.

: 1029

00:49:58,456 --> 00:49:58,876

Hmm.

: 1030

00:50:01,066 --> 00:50:03,286

Laura: You accidentally

created a conspiracy.

: 1031

00:50:03,316 --> 00:50:03,706

Xhafer: Right.

: 1032

00:50:04,726 --> 00:50:05,596

Laura: Congrats.

: 1033

00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,940

Xhafer: The Chaos of Combat Unfolds.

: 1034

00:50:07,940 --> 00:50:11,360

We see civilians killed,

soldiers killed or maimed.

: 1035

00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:13,580

This is not glorified or cleansed.

: 1036

00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,250

Um, you know, dude gets his thumb

shut off or something at one point.

: 1037

00:50:19,940 --> 00:50:22,343

Uh, Guy grabs a hand.

: 1038

00:50:22,523 --> 00:50:26,963

Like it is, it is disgusting on purpose.

: 1039

00:50:27,806 --> 00:50:34,766

Laura: The multiple times we hear

that no one is left behind, and the

: 1040

00:50:34,766 --> 00:50:39,806

meaning of that is like if something

happens to a buddy and there are

: 1041

00:50:39,806 --> 00:50:42,056

only parts of your buddy, like,

: 1042

00:50:42,711 --> 00:50:43,131

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1043

00:50:43,226 --> 00:50:44,576

Laura: get the parts of your buddy.

: 1044

00:50:45,746 --> 00:50:46,526

Bring him home.

: 1045

00:50:47,474 --> 00:50:48,494

it's really intense.

: 1046

00:50:48,554 --> 00:50:53,684

Um, we do see at one point, I don't know

if we're quite there, but we're close.

: 1047

00:50:54,314 --> 00:50:57,284

Are we to the convoy getting RPG yet?

: 1048

00:50:58,094 --> 00:51:00,824

Xhafer: Um, we're, I

think we're about there.

: 1049

00:51:00,824 --> 00:51:01,124

Yeah.

: 1050

00:51:01,364 --> 00:51:04,394

I mostly mo most of my notes for

the next little bit talk about

: 1051

00:51:04,394 --> 00:51:06,104

the color grading mash in Caprica.

: 1052

00:51:06,854 --> 00:51:07,334

Laura: Okay.

: 1053

00:51:07,934 --> 00:51:09,074

Oh, yes.

: 1054

00:51:09,474 --> 00:51:10,044

The color.

: 1055

00:51:10,314 --> 00:51:13,344

We, I now know where

Caprica yellow came from.

: 1056

00:51:13,344 --> 00:51:14,094

You guys.

: 1057

00:51:14,769 --> 00:51:15,159

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1058

00:51:15,444 --> 00:51:16,254

Laura: Black Hawk down.

: 1059

00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:19,299

Xhafer: Caprica yellow is Black

Hawk down a hundred percent.

: 1060

00:51:20,064 --> 00:51:20,964

Laura: Yes.

: 1061

00:51:21,384 --> 00:51:24,774

Well, we've got this convoy

trying to make it back.

: 1062

00:51:24,914 --> 00:51:27,194

We have an RPG strikes

: 1063

00:51:28,064 --> 00:51:31,814

and it hits the driver

of one of the vehicles

: 1064

00:51:32,384 --> 00:51:33,124

Xhafer: Oh my God.

: 1065

00:51:33,914 --> 00:51:36,284

Laura: and doesn't explode.

: 1066

00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:42,009

So what I read was, this was true.

: 1067

00:51:42,979 --> 00:51:48,529

I am not sure if it was this injury or

another injury, but the actual injury was

: 1068

00:51:48,589 --> 00:51:55,339

so implausible that they had to edit it to

make it where they were like, people won't

: 1069

00:51:55,339 --> 00:51:57,259

believe that this is what really happened.

: 1070

00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:57,639

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1071

00:51:58,429 --> 00:52:00,109

Laura: So we have to

change it a little bit.

: 1072

00:52:00,874 --> 00:52:02,974

Xhafer: This is where he gets

all the glass in his face,

: 1073

00:52:03,154 --> 00:52:05,104

the driver, or is that later?

: 1074

00:52:05,939 --> 00:52:09,989

Laura: I think that is

now I think the, the.

: 1075

00:52:10,349 --> 00:52:13,439

Passenger gets glass in his

face, but the driver gets that

: 1076

00:52:13,439 --> 00:52:17,249

and an RPG, and so we're toast.

: 1077

00:52:17,249 --> 00:52:17,729

I don't know.

: 1078

00:52:17,909 --> 00:52:19,439

A lot of these things run together, guys.

: 1079

00:52:19,439 --> 00:52:21,239

It's really hard to

review this kind of movie.

: 1080

00:52:21,704 --> 00:52:22,814

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1081

00:52:23,641 --> 00:52:26,641

uh, Wombles and Nelson

are stranded alone here.

: 1082

00:52:26,731 --> 00:52:27,031

Okay.

: 1083

00:52:27,061 --> 00:52:27,721

Not, not sure.

: 1084

00:52:27,721 --> 00:52:30,391

I guess I did use character

names for these too.

: 1085

00:52:31,516 --> 00:52:35,566

Laura: Wombles is a great

name's Wombly, I think.

: 1086

00:52:35,926 --> 00:52:36,586

I'm not sure

: 1087

00:52:36,961 --> 00:52:38,161

Xhafer: It's Wombles now.

: 1088

00:52:38,851 --> 00:52:41,431

Nelson has rendered death from gunfire.

: 1089

00:52:42,601 --> 00:52:46,591

Um, another chopper drops

troops, but has to evac.

: 1090

00:52:47,881 --> 00:52:51,691

It gets, uh, then the down chopper

we see the crew is still alive, but

: 1091

00:52:51,691 --> 00:52:55,051

can't be moved, so they're trying

to treat them in the wreckage

: 1092

00:52:55,466 --> 00:52:55,886

Laura: Mm-hmm.

: 1093

00:52:56,431 --> 00:52:58,291

Xhafer: another copter gets taken down.

: 1094

00:52:58,441 --> 00:53:03,061

And at this point we've seen them

launch so many rocket propelled

: 1095

00:53:03,061 --> 00:53:10,921

grenades that I grabbed my phone

and in Google I typed RPG cost

: 1096

00:53:12,051 --> 00:53:14,331

And then I deleted it before I hit search.

: 1097

00:53:14,331 --> 00:53:16,461

So I don't end up on a

government watch list

: 1098

00:53:17,406 --> 00:53:17,616

Laura: no.

: 1099

00:53:17,616 --> 00:53:19,626

You're just gonna get a whole

bunch of stuff about d and d.

: 1100

00:53:20,481 --> 00:53:20,961

Xhafer: pass.

: 1101

00:53:20,961 --> 00:53:22,041

Oh, a hundred percent.

: 1102

00:53:22,041 --> 00:53:23,511

That's what actually would've happened.

: 1103

00:53:23,511 --> 00:53:23,811

Yeah,

: 1104

00:53:23,826 --> 00:53:25,116

Laura: That's what you would've gotten.

: 1105

00:53:26,031 --> 00:53:31,401

Xhafer: it is, it's, this is like

totally unrelated but related.

: 1106

00:53:31,741 --> 00:53:33,571

I went shooting with

Ben a couple weeks ago

: 1107

00:53:34,071 --> 00:53:34,421

Laura: Uhhuh,

: 1108

00:53:34,861 --> 00:53:38,641

Xhafer: and as part of like the

waiver process, they get your email.

: 1109

00:53:39,841 --> 00:53:44,281

They immediately turned my

email over to a guy who runs a

: 1110

00:53:44,281 --> 00:53:46,771

CCW permit class in the area,

: 1111

00:53:47,271 --> 00:53:47,621

Laura: Uhhuh.

: 1112

00:53:47,731 --> 00:53:54,061

Xhafer: and he has emailed me one to

two times every single day since I

: 1113

00:53:54,061 --> 00:53:58,951

went to that range about how not safe

I am and how I need to get a CCW.

: 1114

00:53:59,761 --> 00:54:00,301

Laura: Okay.

: 1115

00:54:01,029 --> 00:54:01,359

Okay.

: 1116

00:54:01,569 --> 00:54:02,109

Fuck off.

: 1117

00:54:02,769 --> 00:54:03,909

Xhafer: I blocked him today.

: 1118

00:54:03,974 --> 00:54:06,039

I, I blocked him without unsubscribing.

: 1119

00:54:07,149 --> 00:54:07,599

Laura: Yeah.

: 1120

00:54:08,319 --> 00:54:08,709

Yeah.

: 1121

00:54:09,129 --> 00:54:10,389

That is Okay.

: 1122

00:54:10,539 --> 00:54:12,129

Xhafer: was, it was obscene.

: 1123

00:54:12,129 --> 00:54:14,979

The e like some of these

emails I got were just like,

: 1124

00:54:15,819 --> 00:54:16,029

Laura: Hmm.

: 1125

00:54:16,269 --> 00:54:16,899

Xhafer: dear God,

: 1126

00:54:17,799 --> 00:54:21,489

Laura: I just gave my auditing

class a little spiel about not

: 1127

00:54:21,489 --> 00:54:23,379

making decisions out of fear,

: 1128

00:54:23,949 --> 00:54:24,339

Xhafer: good.

: 1129

00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:27,009

That's a good place to be.

: 1130

00:54:27,669 --> 00:54:30,729

Laura: and I was of course, speaking

in like a professional business

: 1131

00:54:30,729 --> 00:54:36,189

context and like having to challenge

your client on complex accounting

: 1132

00:54:36,189 --> 00:54:37,569

issues, that sort of thing.

: 1133

00:54:37,569 --> 00:54:40,779

But I think it applies

to like a lot of stuff.

: 1134

00:54:41,814 --> 00:54:45,384

Xhafer: Laura, we do very different

things, but something that we

: 1135

00:54:45,564 --> 00:54:51,324

both probably spend a lot of time

professionally doing is explaining math to

: 1136

00:54:51,324 --> 00:54:54,144

people who aren't as good at math as us.

: 1137

00:54:54,969 --> 00:54:56,104

Laura: Yeah, that's, yeah.

: 1138

00:54:57,204 --> 00:54:59,874

Xhafer: And I feel like this is

where, this is our overlap on the Venn

: 1139

00:54:59,874 --> 00:55:06,174

diagram, on the professional side,

I, uh, I, uh, I mean I've been at my

: 1140

00:55:06,174 --> 00:55:10,314

job for about six months now, so I'm

at a point now where I am more of a

: 1141

00:55:10,314 --> 00:55:12,264

known factor instead of the new guy.

: 1142

00:55:12,753 --> 00:55:13,173

Laura: mm-hmm.

: 1143

00:55:13,253 --> 00:55:18,503

Xhafer: And, you know, coming in as

senior developer, there's not a lot of

: 1144

00:55:18,503 --> 00:55:21,923

senior developers in the company who do

what I do have my level of expertise.

: 1145

00:55:22,283 --> 00:55:24,893

I'm at a point now where people

are reaching out to me like, Hey.

: 1146

00:55:25,448 --> 00:55:28,988

How would I go about starting a project

in the thing that you're an expert in?

: 1147

00:55:29,773 --> 00:55:30,123

Laura: Uhhuh

: 1148

00:55:30,308 --> 00:55:36,038

Xhafer: I wrote a like page and a half

about just like requirements gathering.

: 1149

00:55:36,608 --> 00:55:40,628

And a full third of it is don't let

yourself be bullied by the business.

: 1150

00:55:40,778 --> 00:55:42,278

They don't understand math.

: 1151

00:55:42,458 --> 00:55:45,608

They, I don't care if they're in

finance, they don't understand math.

: 1152

00:55:45,938 --> 00:55:49,358

They like, even if, even if they

understand accounting, math or finance

: 1153

00:55:49,358 --> 00:55:51,038

math, they don't understand statistics.

: 1154

00:55:51,428 --> 00:55:52,868

Laura: they don't

understand computer math.

: 1155

00:55:52,898 --> 00:55:54,188

Xhafer: don't understand computer math.

: 1156

00:55:54,638 --> 00:55:56,768

They don't understand report design.

: 1157

00:55:57,128 --> 00:55:59,438

If it's not a spreadsheet,

you've lost them.

: 1158

00:55:59,828 --> 00:56:01,388

Like, and that's fine.

: 1159

00:56:01,388 --> 00:56:02,978

That's not their job to understand.

: 1160

00:56:03,368 --> 00:56:08,648

It's your job to understand, but you

can't let them dictate requirements from

: 1161

00:56:08,648 --> 00:56:12,878

the mindset of not understanding how this

works and what they could possibly have,

: 1162

00:56:14,108 --> 00:56:14,708

Laura: Yeah,

: 1163

00:56:14,888 --> 00:56:15,818

Xhafer: is the same thing.

: 1164

00:56:15,818 --> 00:56:19,838

It's just like, don't be bullied,

don't make decisions out of fear.

: 1165

00:56:20,228 --> 00:56:21,368

Put your foot down.

: 1166

00:56:21,878 --> 00:56:24,008

Know that you know what

you're talking about.

: 1167

00:56:24,608 --> 00:56:26,708

Like same thing.

: 1168

00:56:26,888 --> 00:56:27,428

Same, same.

: 1169

00:56:27,638 --> 00:56:27,968

Laura: Yeah.

: 1170

00:56:28,658 --> 00:56:28,988

Yeah.

: 1171

00:56:29,378 --> 00:56:33,008

So life lessons here on the podcast.

: 1172

00:56:33,008 --> 00:56:34,268

If you made it this far, I don't know.

: 1173

00:56:34,388 --> 00:56:35,318

Xhafer: That's,

: 1174

00:56:36,068 --> 00:56:36,908

Laura: Glad you're still here.

: 1175

00:56:37,658 --> 00:56:41,078

Xhafer: we've made four jokes

in an hour, so we're trying.

: 1176

00:56:42,143 --> 00:56:42,353

Laura: now?

: 1177

00:56:42,353 --> 00:56:42,803

Right.

: 1178

00:56:43,043 --> 00:56:45,563

We're trying to give you

some content at least.

: 1179

00:56:48,190 --> 00:56:48,670

Okay.

: 1180

00:56:48,775 --> 00:56:52,045

Xhafer: The catharsis you get outta

this, I hope is worth the lack of jokes.

: 1181

00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:52,570

Listener,

: 1182

00:56:55,540 --> 00:56:58,450

Laura: This, this episode is

just for me at this point.

: 1183

00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,580

'cause I got some stuff I gotta work out

: 1184

00:57:01,015 --> 00:57:01,405

Xhafer: right?

: 1185

00:57:02,140 --> 00:57:02,800

Laura: life.

: 1186

00:57:05,605 --> 00:57:09,115

Xhafer: Laura would literally rather

host a podcast than go to therapy.

: 1187

00:57:09,205 --> 00:57:09,625

What

: 1188

00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:11,890

Laura: I can do two things.

: 1189

00:57:19,020 --> 00:57:19,240

Xhafer: man?

: 1190

00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,400

Jason Isaac's Southern accent is so good.

: 1191

00:57:22,445 --> 00:57:22,735

Laura: Yeah.

: 1192

00:57:23,110 --> 00:57:27,100

Xhafer: He gets a bit of talking after

this and I know it's not the same

: 1193

00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:30,970

character he played in White Lotus

in this most recent season, but god

: 1194

00:57:31,060 --> 00:57:32,860

damn, is that not my head Cannon?

: 1195

00:57:33,735 --> 00:57:34,025

Laura: Yeah.

: 1196

00:57:34,030 --> 00:57:34,270

Yeah.

: 1197

00:57:36,655 --> 00:57:42,355

Okay, so we've got two, two helicopters

that are really important in this movie.

: 1198

00:57:42,505 --> 00:57:44,485

I was absolutely stunned.

: 1199

00:57:44,665 --> 00:57:45,145

When

: 1200

00:57:45,310 --> 00:57:46,660

Xhafer: black hawks down.

: 1201

00:57:49,645 --> 00:57:50,965

Laura: there's a second one.

: 1202

00:57:52,855 --> 00:57:55,735

Oh my gosh, I was misled.

: 1203

00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:56,890

Xhafer: big twist.

: 1204

00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:58,150

Completely unexpected.

: 1205

00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:59,890

A second helicopter goes down.

: 1206

00:58:00,595 --> 00:58:01,105

Laura: Oh boy.

: 1207

00:58:01,105 --> 00:58:01,825

Yeah, super.

: 1208

00:58:01,825 --> 00:58:06,175

Six one was the first one,

and now super six four

: 1209

00:58:06,250 --> 00:58:06,610

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1210

00:58:07,515 --> 00:58:08,625

Laura: not in good shape.

: 1211

00:58:08,865 --> 00:58:14,115

And both of these are taken out

by RPGs, uh, hitting a rotor, I

: 1212

00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:14,610

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1213

00:58:15,824 --> 00:58:16,604

Which makes sense.

: 1214

00:58:16,604 --> 00:58:18,164

That's how you stabilize.

: 1215

00:58:19,019 --> 00:58:19,379

Laura: Yeah.

: 1216

00:58:19,769 --> 00:58:20,129

Yeah.

: 1217

00:58:20,489 --> 00:58:23,189

Xhafer: Otherwise you are just

a giant upside out lawnmower.

: 1218

00:58:25,394 --> 00:58:25,754

Laura: Right.

: 1219

00:58:28,424 --> 00:58:34,664

So in this movie, I, I didn't know what to

suspect of being CGI, you know, everything

: 1220

00:58:34,664 --> 00:58:39,854

was really smooth and good, but I did

read that the, when the helicopters are

: 1221

00:58:39,854 --> 00:58:43,784

going down and the rotors are kicking

up dust, anytime the helicopters were

: 1222

00:58:43,784 --> 00:58:49,184

like close to the ground and were

kicking up dust, the dust is CGI, like,

: 1223

00:58:49,184 --> 00:58:53,744

they would actually wet the ground

beforehand so that there wouldn't be dust.

: 1224

00:58:54,614 --> 00:58:58,934

And then they added the dust in

in post because actual dust could

: 1225

00:58:58,934 --> 00:59:00,854

be a little too unpredictable.

: 1226

00:59:01,589 --> 00:59:02,189

Xhafer: yeah.

: 1227

00:59:02,264 --> 00:59:02,924

Laura: gonna see what you

: 1228

00:59:03,029 --> 00:59:03,479

Xhafer: That makes

: 1229

00:59:03,479 --> 00:59:04,139

sense.

: 1230

00:59:05,024 --> 00:59:06,794

Laura: yeah, I was like, Hey, good job.

: 1231

00:59:06,854 --> 00:59:07,244

Had no

: 1232

00:59:07,499 --> 00:59:07,829

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1233

00:59:07,829 --> 00:59:10,494

The dust CGI is solid in this timeframe.

: 1234

00:59:10,674 --> 00:59:11,574

No, no.

: 1235

00:59:11,804 --> 00:59:12,929

Beowulf's here.

: 1236

00:59:13,724 --> 00:59:13,904

Laura: Yeah.

: 1237

00:59:15,449 --> 00:59:20,009

Yeah, but we get really dramatic EE both

times that these helicopters go down.

: 1238

00:59:20,009 --> 00:59:27,119

You know, there's like the moments where

the pilots know they're going down, which

: 1239

00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:30,779

must be just like awful for a person.

: 1240

00:59:31,657 --> 00:59:33,877

and they're descending.

: 1241

00:59:34,337 --> 00:59:37,872

And then you hit have like the

rotor coming into the ground

: 1242

00:59:37,872 --> 00:59:41,789

because the helicopter doesn't

just like land on its belly.

: 1243

00:59:41,849 --> 00:59:47,072

You know that that rotor's gonna

be spinning into the ground.

: 1244

00:59:47,762 --> 00:59:49,052

Xhafer: Giant lawnmower.

: 1245

00:59:51,662 --> 00:59:55,122

We get uh, some, uh, wounded convoys.

: 1246

00:59:55,662 --> 01:00:00,382

Humvees finally returned to base here

stranding, Josh Harnett and the others.

: 1247

01:00:01,142 --> 01:00:03,572

The second down chopped is swarm.

: 1248

01:00:03,692 --> 01:00:08,462

All the prisoners are, uh, killed

except for one who is captured alive.

: 1249

01:00:09,542 --> 01:00:12,257

But only after killing dozens of Somalis.

: 1250

01:00:12,844 --> 01:00:19,427

Laura: we had one pilot that

seemed like clearly okay.

: 1251

01:00:19,427 --> 01:00:22,820

And so we had the second

crash site, right?

: 1252

01:00:23,330 --> 01:00:27,667

And two of our Deltas were in

another helicopter and said they

: 1253

01:00:27,667 --> 01:00:29,287

wanted to go secure the site.

: 1254

01:00:29,367 --> 01:00:29,657

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1255

01:00:30,127 --> 01:00:36,607

Laura: So Sugar and Gordon

Gordon is Jamie Lannister.

: 1256

01:00:36,997 --> 01:00:37,287

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1257

01:00:38,030 --> 01:00:39,502

Laura: They propelled down.

: 1258

01:00:40,327 --> 01:00:42,517

Try to protect crash site number two.

: 1259

01:00:43,537 --> 01:00:50,137

They get Michael Durant was the pilot

who survived out of the helicopter,

: 1260

01:00:50,137 --> 01:00:51,877

and they can't get him very far.

: 1261

01:00:52,237 --> 01:00:55,177

They get him like into a building and

then they're gonna try to defend him,

: 1262

01:00:55,202 --> 01:00:55,492

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1263

01:00:56,291 --> 01:00:58,871

Laura: but does not go great rape.

: 1264

01:00:58,991 --> 01:00:59,411

Xhafer: Nope.

: 1265

01:01:00,380 --> 01:01:04,190

Knight begins to descend as the

troops deployed begin to coalesce.

: 1266

01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:09,720

Yorick Nelson and Wombles make it back,

but not without injury or incident.

: 1267

01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,340

Eric Bon and Crew make it to the

other, down to Chopper and find no one.

: 1268

01:01:15,130 --> 01:01:21,100

The troops in the field do their best to

stabilize their wounded compatriots until

: 1269

01:01:21,310 --> 01:01:22,025

Laura: this is horrible.

: 1270

01:01:22,210 --> 01:01:25,840

Xhafer: all of nightfall hits

and the Somalis press the attack.

: 1271

01:01:26,584 --> 01:01:27,004

Laura: Yeah.

: 1272

01:01:27,004 --> 01:01:32,324

So in this nighttime thing we

have I think his name is Smith.

: 1273

01:01:32,324 --> 01:01:35,384

I don't know ranks, I couldn't

tell you the ranks of most of these

: 1274

01:01:35,384 --> 01:01:38,954

people, but he's been hit in an aorta,

: 1275

01:01:39,389 --> 01:01:39,749

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1276

01:01:40,304 --> 01:01:41,294

Laura: like in his leg.

: 1277

01:01:42,644 --> 01:01:54,194

And the craziness of the medic having to

try to stabilize this young man with his

: 1278

01:01:54,194 --> 01:01:57,854

colleagues, who I think, I do believe

he's only one medic, and the rest of

: 1279

01:01:57,854 --> 01:02:00,794

them are just like doing what he says.

: 1280

01:02:00,794 --> 01:02:01,064

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1281

01:02:02,174 --> 01:02:03,584

Laura: Just so intense.

: 1282

01:02:04,313 --> 01:02:07,763

And, uh, this young man does not make it,

: 1283

01:02:07,973 --> 01:02:08,273

Xhafer: No,

: 1284

01:02:09,788 --> 01:02:15,708

Laura: Uh, in this nighttime somewhere

in this nighttime thing we have

: 1285

01:02:16,668 --> 01:02:19,758

Grimes who was the paper pusher?

: 1286

01:02:19,818 --> 01:02:19,968

The

: 1287

01:02:20,198 --> 01:02:20,618

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1288

01:02:21,108 --> 01:02:22,218

Laura: making coffee.

: 1289

01:02:22,593 --> 01:02:23,013

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1290

01:02:23,163 --> 01:02:24,303

He makes damn good coffee.

: 1291

01:02:28,602 --> 01:02:30,642

Laura: Yeah, it's the

secret is in the grind.

: 1292

01:02:33,072 --> 01:02:39,912

He's like hopped up on adrenaline

probably, but also knowing like, we need

: 1293

01:02:39,912 --> 01:02:43,302

to stay awake if we're gonna make it

through this night, if we're gonna get

: 1294

01:02:43,302 --> 01:02:45,792

out of here and making people coffee.

: 1295

01:02:45,792 --> 01:02:50,792

And I was like, man, I'm not gonna pretend

that I would be any use in this situation,

: 1296

01:02:50,792 --> 01:02:53,072

but I would probably think, yeah, coffee.

: 1297

01:02:54,752 --> 01:02:55,502

Let's do that.

: 1298

01:02:57,281 --> 01:03:00,191

Xhafer: Uh, Eric Bana and

crew are some sneaky bitches.

: 1299

01:03:00,191 --> 01:03:06,071

They take out some artillery and

then use it to hit other artillery.

: 1300

01:03:08,786 --> 01:03:09,656

Laura: Artillery.

: 1301

01:03:11,171 --> 01:03:13,121

Xhafer: Look, it's 10 30.

: 1302

01:03:13,766 --> 01:03:14,996

Laura: No, I get it.

: 1303

01:03:15,056 --> 01:03:16,826

The other day I could not say opera.

: 1304

01:03:17,426 --> 01:03:18,236

Oh, no.

: 1305

01:03:21,225 --> 01:03:23,235

Operationalize.

: 1306

01:03:23,565 --> 01:03:31,065

I was trying to say that in class and it

did not go well, and I could not do it,

: 1307

01:03:33,195 --> 01:03:35,565

and I ultimately chose other words.

: 1308

01:03:36,420 --> 01:03:36,780

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1309

01:03:38,021 --> 01:03:38,531

Yeah.

: 1310

01:03:38,621 --> 01:03:43,081

Tanks start rolling out of the

base here as the narrator from

: 1311

01:03:43,081 --> 01:03:45,721

TV's Nature finishes up his coffee.

: 1312

01:03:46,363 --> 01:03:51,223

Perimeters are established and everyone

works to get everyone out of there.

: 1313

01:03:51,223 --> 01:03:56,713

As day breaks, a group rangers are forced

to proceed on foot since there aren't

: 1314

01:03:56,773 --> 01:03:59,833

enough room in the vehicles for everyone,

: 1315

01:04:00,088 --> 01:04:00,808

Laura: Yes.

: 1316

01:04:00,808 --> 01:04:01,288

Yeah.

: 1317

01:04:01,348 --> 01:04:03,238

These are the UN vehicles.

: 1318

01:04:03,358 --> 01:04:05,548

So these are not US vehicles.

: 1319

01:04:05,653 --> 01:04:08,408

Xhafer: I hope this was

just drama at this point

: 1320

01:04:08,423 --> 01:04:08,713

Laura: Nope.

: 1321

01:04:09,403 --> 01:04:09,703

Xhafer: or no?

: 1322

01:04:09,703 --> 01:04:09,793

No.

: 1323

01:04:09,883 --> 01:04:12,973

Like even if there's not enough

room for everyone, right.

: 1324

01:04:13,513 --> 01:04:13,933

Laura: Mm-hmm.

: 1325

01:04:14,113 --> 01:04:17,983

Xhafer: Would you send the guys who have

been awake for a day and a half fighting

: 1326

01:04:17,983 --> 01:04:21,613

an enemy territory to go on foot, or

would you send the fresh guys out on

: 1327

01:04:21,613 --> 01:04:23,593

foot and get these guys in a fucking car?

: 1328

01:04:24,478 --> 01:04:24,718

Laura: nope,

: 1329

01:04:24,853 --> 01:04:25,333

Xhafer: No.

: 1330

01:04:26,068 --> 01:04:26,398

Laura: nope.

: 1331

01:04:26,518 --> 01:04:31,348

So these were UIN vehicles and the UN

troops did not want to be out there.

: 1332

01:04:32,608 --> 01:04:35,998

These aren't US troops

that are coming as relief.

: 1333

01:04:36,688 --> 01:04:40,660

So it, I believe it was Pakistani maybe.

: 1334

01:04:41,980 --> 01:04:42,820

I don't know.

: 1335

01:04:42,820 --> 01:04:46,380

I know there was at least Pakistani,

Malaysian 'cause they also

: 1336

01:04:46,380 --> 01:04:50,640

suffered a couple of casualties,

but not like the Americans did.

: 1337

01:04:51,675 --> 01:04:54,555

but yeah, they, they did not let

the Americans in the vehicles

: 1338

01:04:54,555 --> 01:04:56,235

and they had to run out.

: 1339

01:04:56,235 --> 01:04:59,115

It was five kilometers approximately.

: 1340

01:04:59,955 --> 01:05:02,685

And this is now referred

to as a Mogadishu mile.

: 1341

01:05:04,125 --> 01:05:08,404

So, sometimes there are fundraisers

done where, you know, like, like

: 1342

01:05:08,404 --> 01:05:10,265

you'd sign up for a 5K, right?

: 1343

01:05:10,654 --> 01:05:14,325

But it's like a veteran's something

support and it's, you're gonna do the

: 1344

01:05:14,325 --> 01:05:17,265

mogadishu mile and there's no timing.

: 1345

01:05:17,685 --> 01:05:23,055

There's no first, second place like

you're to remember, you're to commemorate

: 1346

01:05:23,055 --> 01:05:29,535

this event that happened and you're

not ranking, you're just remembering

: 1347

01:05:29,565 --> 01:05:33,315

the experience of these soldiers who

had to run their way out of the city.

: 1348

01:05:33,645 --> 01:05:34,335

Xhafer: Wow.

: 1349

01:05:35,265 --> 01:05:35,475

Laura: Yeah.

: 1350

01:05:36,165 --> 01:05:37,965

Xhafer: I wonder if my

buddy Joe's done these.

: 1351

01:05:38,235 --> 01:05:40,365

He's both a veteran and a marathon runner.

: 1352

01:05:41,220 --> 01:05:43,770

Laura: Yeah, it's probably come up then.

: 1353

01:05:43,875 --> 01:05:44,805

Xhafer: and I'm sure it's come up.

: 1354

01:05:44,805 --> 01:05:50,895

He, uh, the, he, he ran the Detroit

marathon, I want to say, five years in

: 1355

01:05:50,895 --> 01:05:53,235

a row while carrying in American flag.

: 1356

01:05:53,788 --> 01:05:54,149

Laura: Yeah.

: 1357

01:05:54,329 --> 01:05:54,809

Wow,

: 1358

01:05:54,913 --> 01:05:55,304

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1359

01:05:55,854 --> 01:05:56,064

Yeah.

: 1360

01:05:56,214 --> 01:05:57,744

He was in the news every year for it.

: 1361

01:05:59,259 --> 01:05:59,769

Laura: Wow.

: 1362

01:06:00,489 --> 01:06:06,429

Yeah, like I, I've not, you know, we've

talked about, I run and I, I'm nothing.

: 1363

01:06:06,519 --> 01:06:09,985

I'm like, I'm slow as

fuck and that's okay.

: 1364

01:06:10,045 --> 01:06:13,779

Like, but I'm just trying to do this

and I was like, wow, I'm probably

: 1365

01:06:13,779 --> 01:06:19,645

never gonna look at the 5K distance

the same way again, watching these

: 1366

01:06:19,645 --> 01:06:21,805

men do it with their weapons and

: 1367

01:06:21,935 --> 01:06:23,285

Xhafer: 50 pounds of gear.

: 1368

01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:24,010

Yeah.

: 1369

01:06:24,355 --> 01:06:28,735

Laura: after having been up at

the most traumatic night of their

: 1370

01:06:28,735 --> 01:06:32,665

lives, having to just keep going.

: 1371

01:06:33,075 --> 01:06:33,365

Xhafer: Fuck.

: 1372

01:06:34,525 --> 01:06:34,705

Laura: Yeah.

: 1373

01:06:35,485 --> 01:06:35,875

So

: 1374

01:06:38,545 --> 01:06:39,385

crazy.

: 1375

01:06:40,090 --> 01:06:40,270

Xhafer: Yep.

: 1376

01:06:40,730 --> 01:06:48,680

They get out of the hostile part of the

city and back to base as we head to the

: 1377

01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,070

medic tent where the injured are treated.

: 1378

01:06:53,016 --> 01:06:55,926

Ruiz has a big, do we

get to win this time?

: 1379

01:06:55,926 --> 01:06:57,396

Rambo two vibes.

: 1380

01:06:57,859 --> 01:06:58,879

Laura: Yeah, so

: 1381

01:06:58,909 --> 01:07:04,788

Ruiz Ruiz is basically saying,

don't go back there without me.

: 1382

01:07:04,939 --> 01:07:10,369

Like I think Ruiz was one that had kind of

a, a break in the middle and he is like,

: 1383

01:07:10,369 --> 01:07:13,038

I can't do it, I can't go back out there.

: 1384

01:07:13,819 --> 01:07:14,479

And

: 1385

01:07:14,614 --> 01:07:15,304

Xhafer: also died.

: 1386

01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:17,299

Laura: yeah, yeah.

: 1387

01:07:17,479 --> 01:07:20,538

So he's saying, don't go

back out there without me.

: 1388

01:07:21,299 --> 01:07:24,179

But they're sending him to Germany,

to the field hospital and he does

: 1389

01:07:24,179 --> 01:07:24,509

not

: 1390

01:07:25,064 --> 01:07:25,244

Xhafer: yeah.

: 1391

01:07:25,244 --> 01:07:30,684

He's in the, the list of those

soldiers at the end uh, Eric Bonna is

: 1392

01:07:30,684 --> 01:07:35,844

going back out there as Josh Harnett

waxes philosophical on the life of

: 1393

01:07:35,844 --> 01:07:38,629

a soldier telling fallen comrades.

: 1394

01:07:38,729 --> 01:07:45,029

He's gonna ha talk to some parents or

something as we see caskets get loaded

: 1395

01:07:45,029 --> 01:07:48,239

up, and that's the end of the movie.

: 1396

01:07:48,239 --> 01:07:53,399

We get the little bit about the thousand

Somalis and 19 American soldiers.

: 1397

01:07:53,399 --> 01:07:55,139

Here's 19 American soldier names.

: 1398

01:07:56,337 --> 01:08:01,257

Laura: And then a thousand other people,

except it was probably more than that.

: 1399

01:08:02,707 --> 01:08:03,307

Oh boy.

: 1400

01:08:03,427 --> 01:08:09,727

So I have other things I wanna say

about this movie for one thing.

: 1401

01:08:09,727 --> 01:08:12,846

It is, I'm glad I watched it.

: 1402

01:08:13,432 --> 01:08:13,762

Xhafer: yeah,

: 1403

01:08:14,437 --> 01:08:18,127

Laura: Um, I think when

I texted you, I was like.

: 1404

01:08:19,447 --> 01:08:20,917

Man, fuck this episode.

: 1405

01:08:21,022 --> 01:08:22,971

Xhafer: yeah, you did.

: 1406

01:08:23,557 --> 01:08:25,057

Laura: I was like, I don't, I don't know.

: 1407

01:08:25,057 --> 01:08:26,707

I might give my first fuck this movie.

: 1408

01:08:27,532 --> 01:08:30,112

Xhafer: We don't rate the

movies, and I've never been more

: 1409

01:08:30,112 --> 01:08:32,091

glad of that than right now.

: 1410

01:08:32,437 --> 01:08:32,917

Laura: Yeah.

: 1411

01:08:33,006 --> 01:08:33,426

Yeah.

: 1412

01:08:33,547 --> 01:08:37,537

Because it, it is intense.

: 1413

01:08:37,836 --> 01:08:45,397

Um, you know, at one point there's like

someone who gets blown in half and we like

: 1414

01:08:45,532 --> 01:08:45,682

Xhafer: yeah.

: 1415

01:08:46,417 --> 01:08:51,018

Laura: comfort his torso, and

then take it back because we're

: 1416

01:08:51,018 --> 01:08:52,098

not leaving anyone behind.

: 1417

01:08:53,282 --> 01:08:58,607

And it's weird when we watch these kind

of things, that knowing in the timeline

: 1418

01:08:58,727 --> 01:09:01,817

of the universe that like I was a child.

: 1419

01:09:02,267 --> 01:09:03,886

This was during my lifetime.

: 1420

01:09:04,727 --> 01:09:10,517

Those movies that we watch about

Vietnam or about World War ii.

: 1421

01:09:11,551 --> 01:09:15,782

There's a little bit of distance

there where you can think about

: 1422

01:09:15,782 --> 01:09:17,252

it a little more academically,

: 1423

01:09:17,341 --> 01:09:17,822

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1424

01:09:18,272 --> 01:09:22,776

Laura: but then like watching this

where it's like, wow, this is my time.

: 1425

01:09:23,586 --> 01:09:25,236

And I had no idea it was happening.

: 1426

01:09:27,216 --> 01:09:33,816

But the challenge I think these days

is that up to a point that history,

: 1427

01:09:34,685 --> 01:09:39,725

like World War ii, especially before

the internet, it was easy to come

: 1428

01:09:39,725 --> 01:09:41,345

up with a prevailing narrative.

: 1429

01:09:41,736 --> 01:09:45,935

Like we just say this thing

enough times in enough books and

: 1430

01:09:45,935 --> 01:09:47,376

it's the truth of how it went.

: 1431

01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:48,140

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1432

01:09:49,086 --> 01:09:56,016

Laura: And now we can see much

more diverse things happening.

: 1433

01:09:56,016 --> 01:09:56,916

So like.

: 1434

01:09:58,251 --> 01:10:03,561

With the things that have happened in

Gaza, like we've been able to see the

: 1435

01:10:03,561 --> 01:10:09,291

perspectives of the people it's happening

to with the power of the internet.

: 1436

01:10:09,516 --> 01:10:09,936

Xhafer: Yeah, no.

: 1437

01:10:09,936 --> 01:10:14,206

I mean, people talk about the

news involvement in Vietnam

: 1438

01:10:14,626 --> 01:10:19,916

as like exposing the American

household to the realities of war

: 1439

01:10:20,666 --> 01:10:22,736

the horrors of war and

: 1440

01:10:22,781 --> 01:10:24,551

Laura: The first time

that, that could happen,

: 1441

01:10:24,566 --> 01:10:25,046

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1442

01:10:25,556 --> 01:10:32,066

And TikTok is like the

unsanitized uncensored, direct

: 1443

01:10:32,066 --> 01:10:34,826

from civilians version of that.

: 1444

01:10:35,171 --> 01:10:37,031

Laura: correct, correct.

: 1445

01:10:37,766 --> 01:10:41,156

Xhafer: the last time we'll have that

as a culture as well, because now we're

: 1446

01:10:41,156 --> 01:10:46,166

gonna have AI showing us fake shit for

forever and it won't matter anymore.

: 1447

01:10:47,141 --> 01:10:47,591

Laura: Yeah.

: 1448

01:10:47,681 --> 01:10:53,081

That's the, the concern that

I've had this year is like,

: 1449

01:10:53,621 --> 01:10:56,441

obviously I feel for these people.

: 1450

01:10:57,026 --> 01:10:57,416

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1451

01:10:57,596 --> 01:11:02,816

Laura: And I feel for especially the

women and children whose backs these

: 1452

01:11:02,816 --> 01:11:04,706

conflicts are always carried upon.

: 1453

01:11:04,736 --> 01:11:05,036

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1454

01:11:05,876 --> 01:11:12,956

Laura: You know, it's women and

children starving who had no say in

: 1455

01:11:13,046 --> 01:11:19,706

any of these decisions and couldn't

even have agency in it if they wanted

: 1456

01:11:19,706 --> 01:11:23,276

to because the systems are preventing

them from having their own agency.

: 1457

01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:29,809

But now we're living in a world

where people are putting together

: 1458

01:11:29,809 --> 01:11:31,549

pretty realistic fake videos.

: 1459

01:11:31,549 --> 01:11:36,082

And so I'm like, I don't even know

if I can watch your story and know

: 1460

01:11:36,082 --> 01:11:37,672

if it's true or if you're real.

: 1461

01:11:37,672 --> 01:11:43,282

Like to, to do that, I'm gonna have

to do a lot of work also to find

: 1462

01:11:43,282 --> 01:11:50,692

out and it's just really scary,

like where we can go with this.

: 1463

01:11:51,603 --> 01:11:51,893

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1464

01:11:51,958 --> 01:11:52,678

Laura: a society,

: 1465

01:11:54,815 --> 01:11:55,445

I don't know.

: 1466

01:11:56,225 --> 01:12:02,075

I, I can't pass judgments on any

decisions that were made because

: 1467

01:12:02,345 --> 01:12:03,605

I didn't have to make them.

: 1468

01:12:03,845 --> 01:12:04,115

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1469

01:12:04,838 --> 01:12:05,228

Laura: but

: 1470

01:12:06,164 --> 01:12:06,384

Xhafer: Yep.

: 1471

01:12:06,489 --> 01:12:07,869

Laura: it is like hard.

: 1472

01:12:07,869 --> 01:12:11,439

How do we stand by and watch

this happen, but also should we

: 1473

01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:12,969

interfere in other people's affairs?

: 1474

01:12:12,969 --> 01:12:13,599

I, I don't know.

: 1475

01:12:13,943 --> 01:12:14,344

I dunno.

: 1476

01:12:15,068 --> 01:12:17,619

Xhafer: I mean, if there

were an easy answer

: 1477

01:12:18,039 --> 01:12:19,179

Laura: We would've already taken, it

: 1478

01:12:19,389 --> 01:12:20,199

Xhafer: a hundred percent.

: 1479

01:12:21,159 --> 01:12:21,999

Laura: would've already been then.

: 1480

01:12:22,719 --> 01:12:30,073

Uh, I did wanna call our attention to

a recent documentary that was done.

: 1481

01:12:30,733 --> 01:12:32,952

Uh, I found a BBC article about this.

: 1482

01:12:32,952 --> 01:12:34,573

It's supposedly on Netflix.

: 1483

01:12:35,161 --> 01:12:36,121

Yeah, this is pretty recent.

: 1484

01:12:36,121 --> 01:12:38,551

It's from the articles

from February of this year.

: 1485

01:12:39,257 --> 01:12:45,317

So for the 30th anniversary, they went

to Somalia and talked to Mogadishu

: 1486

01:12:45,317 --> 01:12:47,717

residents about what happened.

: 1487

01:12:48,377 --> 01:12:50,657

And in this article specifically,

they talked to a couple of

: 1488

01:12:50,657 --> 01:12:52,277

women, which I appreciated.

: 1489

01:12:52,277 --> 01:12:57,318

You know, there is reference in this

movie to like the common person.

: 1490

01:12:57,318 --> 01:13:02,478

At one point we see an American soldier,

like go through a door, I think it's

: 1491

01:13:02,478 --> 01:13:04,878

uric or uric, whatever his name was.

: 1492

01:13:05,346 --> 01:13:07,416

He's the one who got stuck by himself.

: 1493

01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:12,450

and there's a woman huddling with

like 12 children or something.

: 1494

01:13:12,450 --> 01:13:15,480

She's trying to like protect them

from everything that's happening.

: 1495

01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:19,500

I'm not sure if I wasn't totally

clear if that was like a classroom.

: 1496

01:13:19,770 --> 01:13:20,130

She was a

: 1497

01:13:20,555 --> 01:13:22,295

Xhafer: it had classroom vibes.

: 1498

01:13:22,295 --> 01:13:22,615

To me,

: 1499

01:13:22,615 --> 01:13:23,934

that was my initial read.

: 1500

01:13:24,747 --> 01:13:28,707

Laura: But she's like trying to

protect these innocent children and.

: 1501

01:13:29,247 --> 01:13:36,957

He goes out the other side of the

schoolhouse and there's a little boy

: 1502

01:13:36,957 --> 01:13:41,607

out there, and I think the father

tries to take a shot at the soldier.

: 1503

01:13:42,713 --> 01:13:46,463

and the soldier has a better

shot, the American soldier.

: 1504

01:13:47,133 --> 01:13:50,853

And then the boy runs up to the man

crying because it's implied like

: 1505

01:13:50,853 --> 01:13:54,813

that's a relative, you know, like

that's his father or something.

: 1506

01:13:56,073 --> 01:14:00,723

At another point we see like a, on the

Mogadishu mile when we're running out

: 1507

01:14:01,383 --> 01:14:08,823

like a older grandfatherly type gentleman

carrying a body of someone small.

: 1508

01:14:09,003 --> 01:14:09,452

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1509

01:14:10,082 --> 01:14:15,962

Laura: so I appreciate that Ridley Scott

did not completely shy away from that.

: 1510

01:14:15,962 --> 01:14:19,082

I understand he probably had

to make certain people happy

: 1511

01:14:20,072 --> 01:14:21,587

when he's telling this story.

: 1512

01:14:22,287 --> 01:14:23,947

Um, but.

: 1513

01:14:25,052 --> 01:14:26,702

There's a very real cost there.

: 1514

01:14:27,602 --> 01:14:31,472

And so in this article and in this

documentary, these women are also

: 1515

01:14:31,472 --> 01:14:34,982

telling their stories of like,

what happened to me that day.

: 1516

01:14:35,282 --> 01:14:35,702

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1517

01:14:36,242 --> 01:14:41,402

Laura: And one woman was visiting

her, her family in another part of

: 1518

01:14:41,402 --> 01:14:47,732

the city, or her friends in another

part of the city when the, the shells

: 1519

01:14:47,732 --> 01:14:49,682

start going off and the gunfire.

: 1520

01:14:50,312 --> 01:14:53,822

And so she's very close to it.

: 1521

01:14:53,822 --> 01:14:55,622

She runs home to her family.

: 1522

01:14:56,972 --> 01:14:58,832

Her husband starts to make her tea.

: 1523

01:14:59,312 --> 01:15:04,622

Her neighbor is visiting, uh, because

she's lives alone and she's frightened.

: 1524

01:15:04,792 --> 01:15:05,212

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

: 1525

01:15:06,182 --> 01:15:11,432

Laura: And then some ordinance,

impossible to know who's hits their home.

: 1526

01:15:12,902 --> 01:15:15,062

And the husband is dead.

: 1527

01:15:15,722 --> 01:15:19,592

She feels water from above her.

: 1528

01:15:19,592 --> 01:15:22,652

She's, she's on the ground and

she realizes this is not water.

: 1529

01:15:22,652 --> 01:15:23,822

It's the blood of her neighbor.

: 1530

01:15:24,842 --> 01:15:26,012

The woman who lived alone,

: 1531

01:15:26,207 --> 01:15:26,327

Xhafer: Duh.

: 1532

01:15:27,272 --> 01:15:32,432

Laura: who has passed, she

lost several of her children.

: 1533

01:15:32,672 --> 01:15:37,772

One of her sons was blinded, one of

her sons, she says this to this day,

: 1534

01:15:38,102 --> 01:15:41,487

can't stand the sound of an aircraft and

: 1535

01:15:41,622 --> 01:15:41,792

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1536

01:15:42,602 --> 01:15:43,892

Laura: will hide.

: 1537

01:15:44,769 --> 01:15:49,029

this other woman they spoke

to gave birth to a baby girl

: 1538

01:15:49,029 --> 01:15:51,219

that morning in her apartment.

: 1539

01:15:52,749 --> 01:15:59,289

And so she's just had a baby girl gone

through the birth process postpartum.

: 1540

01:15:59,524 --> 01:16:02,346

Her family's here to see the baby.

: 1541

01:16:04,146 --> 01:16:05,376

Everything breaks out.

: 1542

01:16:06,696 --> 01:16:13,026

American soldiers run into her house

and wind up stationing there in

: 1543

01:16:13,026 --> 01:16:15,996

her home while she has a new baby.

: 1544

01:16:17,706 --> 01:16:18,156

Sorry.

: 1545

01:16:19,472 --> 01:16:23,282

I just really feel for mothers

who are in this situation,

: 1546

01:16:24,837 --> 01:16:25,127

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1547

01:16:25,532 --> 01:16:29,762

Laura: and there are probably more of

them in the last few days than there

: 1548

01:16:29,762 --> 01:16:35,735

were this time before, and there's

more of them than there ever should be,

: 1549

01:16:37,235 --> 01:16:42,605

who have to think about their new baby

and the horrific world around them.

: 1550

01:16:44,478 --> 01:16:48,018

And it sounds like the experience

with the soldiers wasn't, you

: 1551

01:16:48,018 --> 01:16:50,713

know, like a horrible experience.

: 1552

01:16:50,803 --> 01:16:52,903

Um, she did name her baby girl.

: 1553

01:16:54,053 --> 01:16:59,993

They, they believe in her family of naming

the baby after something significant.

: 1554

01:17:00,681 --> 01:17:07,251

, She named her baby girl, Amina Rangers

for the American Rangers that were

: 1555

01:17:07,521 --> 01:17:09,561

in her house on her day of birth.

: 1556

01:17:11,206 --> 01:17:17,585

But these women think that the story

should be told of what it was really

: 1557

01:17:17,585 --> 01:17:22,055

like for a person without power.

: 1558

01:17:23,405 --> 01:17:28,130

And I'm not saying the soldiers

had tons of power, but certainly

: 1559

01:17:28,130 --> 01:17:30,655

more than a new mother, that day.

: 1560

01:17:31,668 --> 01:17:36,612

And some of them would like

some kind of reparation for the,

: 1561

01:17:36,797 --> 01:17:38,217

the destruction and the loss.

: 1562

01:17:39,128 --> 01:17:41,618

And I, yeah,

: 1563

01:17:41,628 --> 01:17:41,918

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1564

01:17:42,668 --> 01:17:47,695

Laura: I don't know, but I just wanted to

let everyone know that that's out there.

: 1565

01:17:47,845 --> 01:17:51,565

Like if you're, if you've seen Black Hawk

Down, you're interested in this thing,

: 1566

01:17:52,495 --> 01:18:00,775

like there's also this chance to get some

visibility on Somali citizens experience.

: 1567

01:18:02,702 --> 01:18:05,883

It looks like it's actually

a mini series, and the title

: 1568

01:18:05,883 --> 01:18:07,893

is Surviving Black Hawk Down.

: 1569

01:18:08,343 --> 01:18:14,032

So So, yeah, the more we can

know, the more we can empathize

: 1570

01:18:14,032 --> 01:18:15,202

with our fellow human being.

: 1571

01:18:15,202 --> 01:18:15,653

I hope.

: 1572

01:18:17,469 --> 01:18:17,859

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1573

01:18:18,398 --> 01:18:20,581

Um, Battlestar.

: 1574

01:18:22,456 --> 01:18:24,256

Laura: So that was Black Hawk Downer.

: 1575

01:18:24,706 --> 01:18:32,386

Xhafer: Um, next week season two episode

11, uh, resurrection Ship part one, the

: 1576

01:18:32,386 --> 01:18:34,871

Battle Stars, Galactica and Pegasus face.

: 1577

01:18:35,111 --> 01:18:43,362

A new cy target, a resurrection ship

while a power struggle threatens to result

: 1578

01:18:43,362 --> 01:18:46,422

in all out war among the human fleet

: 1579

01:18:47,631 --> 01:18:48,261

Laura: Yeah.

: 1580

01:18:48,471 --> 01:18:51,261

Kind of expected that.

: 1581

01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:53,151

Xhafer: like

: 1582

01:18:55,311 --> 01:19:01,236

I am, I shouldn't have put a movie in

between these three episodes, like as, as,

: 1583

01:19:01,241 --> 01:19:06,561

as like, scheduler, like that's my b um,

: 1584

01:19:07,131 --> 01:19:07,731

Laura: mean, that was

: 1585

01:19:07,731 --> 01:19:08,961

the authentic experience.

: 1586

01:19:08,961 --> 01:19:09,411

Right?

: 1587

01:19:10,311 --> 01:19:14,421

Xhafer: I think there was definitely for

seasons three and four, I don't remember

: 1588

01:19:14,421 --> 01:19:16,401

if there's a break between in season two,

: 1589

01:19:17,057 --> 01:19:20,807

Laura: I think Erin told me there

was a break after episode 10.

: 1590

01:19:21,827 --> 01:19:22,727

Xhafer: Man, that sucks.

: 1591

01:19:23,987 --> 01:19:24,437

Laura: Yeah.

: 1592

01:19:24,527 --> 01:19:26,987

Xhafer: It's definitely

a three part episode, so,

: 1593

01:19:28,094 --> 01:19:28,384

Laura: Yeah.

: 1594

01:19:28,859 --> 01:19:31,589

I would like some resolution, please.

: 1595

01:19:31,619 --> 01:19:32,459

Ronnie d

: 1596

01:19:32,459 --> 01:19:35,474

Xhafer: you'll have it in like two

years when we finished Battlestar

: 1597

01:19:36,449 --> 01:19:36,749

Laura: Yeah.

: 1598

01:19:36,749 --> 01:19:39,299

That's what I am afraid of at this point.

: 1599

01:19:40,244 --> 01:19:42,719

Xhafer: and, and it won't be enough.

: 1600

01:19:42,779 --> 01:19:43,289

So,

: 1601

01:19:44,249 --> 01:19:46,949

but that's, that's, neither

here nor there for right now.

: 1602

01:19:47,129 --> 01:19:52,648

What is here right now is me

thanking Jeremy Siegel which.

: 1603

01:19:53,054 --> 01:19:54,914

We, we, we, we love you Jeremy.

: 1604

01:19:55,574 --> 01:19:58,514

Uh, thank, thanks so much for

putting together our theme music

: 1605

01:19:58,874 --> 01:20:01,094

and being a part of this pod fam.

: 1606

01:20:01,184 --> 01:20:02,714

We appreciate you a great deal.

: 1607

01:20:03,224 --> 01:20:03,494

Jeremy.

: 1608

01:20:03,494 --> 01:20:05,204

Siegel, 40 two.amp.com

: 1609

01:20:05,204 --> 01:20:06,674

streaming services, nuclear Jaguar.

: 1610

01:20:07,898 --> 01:20:11,918

Laura: and thanks Anger Deck time machine

on Instagram for our podcast artwork.

: 1611

01:20:12,157 --> 01:20:14,873

Xhafer: Aaron, you watch

Black Hawk down too?

: 1612

01:20:18,023 --> 01:20:19,253

Do you did?

: 1613

01:20:21,952 --> 01:20:27,428

Laura: we, we had a moment after this

movie where, well, of course he had

: 1614

01:20:27,428 --> 01:20:29,258

to listen to me cry for a few minutes

: 1615

01:20:31,808 --> 01:20:36,548

and I think I've brought it up

every day since as I've been like

: 1616

01:20:36,548 --> 01:20:40,688

processing a little more and a

little more and a little more.

: 1617

01:20:41,198 --> 01:20:45,518

So really, Erin is always

the real MVP of this podcast.

: 1618

01:20:45,518 --> 01:20:47,798

'cause when something

happens, it requires like.

: 1619

01:20:48,395 --> 01:20:51,455

Effort, mental effort to deal with.

: 1620

01:20:51,605 --> 01:20:54,481

Uh, He is the one stuck with that.

: 1621

01:20:54,511 --> 01:20:54,800

Xhafer: Yeah,

: 1622

01:20:56,502 --> 01:20:56,922

Laura: Yeah.

: 1623

01:20:56,922 --> 01:20:58,632

So thanks babe.

: 1624

01:20:58,692 --> 01:20:58,982

Xhafer: yeah.

: 1625

01:20:59,877 --> 01:21:05,127

And, uh, you know, discord,

uh, five star ratings.

: 1626

01:21:05,157 --> 01:21:06,837

Uh, tell your friends,

: 1627

01:21:07,692 --> 01:21:08,262

Laura: Yeah.

: 1628

01:21:08,597 --> 01:21:09,192

All that

: 1629

01:21:09,327 --> 01:21:11,757

Xhafer: all that stuff,

you know, all that stuff.

: 1630

01:21:11,757 --> 01:21:15,416

This isn't your only podcast,

and if it is, I'm flattered.

: 1631

01:21:16,407 --> 01:21:19,737

You're if if you're, you're

exempt from all that other stuff.

: 1632

01:21:21,972 --> 01:21:22,932

Laura: Yeah, just be here.

: 1633

01:21:22,932 --> 01:21:23,082

We

: 1634

01:21:23,282 --> 01:21:23,572

Xhafer: Yeah.

: 1635

01:21:24,027 --> 01:21:24,687

It's cool.

: 1636

01:21:24,687 --> 01:21:25,257

We'll take it.

: 1637

01:21:25,347 --> 01:21:26,307

Uh, yeah.

: 1638

01:21:26,307 --> 01:21:28,166

Well, we'll see you next week.

: 1639

01:21:28,527 --> 01:21:29,097

Internet.

: 1640

01:21:29,217 --> 01:21:29,787

Fuck.

: 1641

01:21:30,517 --> 01:21:31,177

Laura: Love you.

: 1642

01:21:31,382 --> 01:21:31,602

Bye.

: 1643

01:21:31,822 --> 01:21:32,272

Xhafer: Bye.