Episode 134

full
Published on:

24th Jul 2024

Crusade 3 - The Creepy Fingers

Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer jump ahead to the next episode in the JMS preferred order. Xhafer retires his B5 card collection. Laura thinks the show needs more PR Kevin. Meanwhile, the Excalibur crew explores a derelict alien starship and accidentally unleashes an HR nightmare in Crusade: Episode 8 - Appearances and Other Deceits.

Transcript
Xhafer:

Hello, and welcome to Who Are You?

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This is the Babylon 5 Watchcast, hosted

by two former strangers, now friends,

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who've gotten to know each other.

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Or are you watching a favorite

show from their childhood?

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Babylon 5.

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I'm Schafer.

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Laura: And I'm Laura.

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Xhafer: And we are in Crusade, still.

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We're crusading through Crusade.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Episode three for us, right?

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Xhafer: episode three for us,

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Laura: Yeah.

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It's not three for the show, necessarily.

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Xhafer: episode we're watching today

is Appearances and Other Deceits.

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I believe it was the

last episode produced?

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And the eighth episode in DVD order.

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Laura: Okay.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: Interesting.

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Xhafer: it's our episode three.

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I think because of Uniform Continuity?

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But, there's a couple other things.

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But there's also shit in this

episode that doesn't make sense.

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So, we'll talk about it though.

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Laura: preferred order, right?

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Xhafer: Yes.

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Laura: Hmm.

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So this would have been number three.

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Interesting.

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Xhafer: Yep.

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Laura: have been, I suppose.

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Xhafer: I mean, it's uh, I mean

we'll talk about it at the end, but,

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I like it better the next episode.

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Laura: Oh.

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Oh, interesting.

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Controversial take.

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Xhafer: I don't think, is it?

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I don't know.

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Um, it's an okay episode.

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Did you catch who directed this one?

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Laura: I did not.

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Wait.

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Wasn't one of these Stephen First, maybe?

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Xhafer: This is Steven First,

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Laura: Okay, it was this one.

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Gotcha.

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I watched him in a chunk of two,

listener, So I did not remember

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details for one or the other.

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Xhafer: Same.

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yeah, so we were originally

going to do some recasting today

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and some alignment next week.

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Laura: I don't think I'm prepared.

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Xhafer: I don't think, I don't

think I could be prepared.

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I don't think we spent enough

time with these characters.

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Especially, this show is very siloed

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Laura: Mm

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Xhafer: in its character usage.

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it's like, okay, pick three out

of the main cast and that's who

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you're getting this episode.

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Every episode kind of feels like that.

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Um, you get Gideon, and then

you'll get the three characters

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who came in this week, and

everyone else is a fucking ghost.

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Laura: Yeah,

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Xhafer: Speaking of which, Lockley is in

the main credits and we haven't seen her.

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Laura: that's true.

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And we've, we've at this point

watched four episodes and

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we haven't seen Lockley yet.

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Xhafer: a third of the episodes

we've watched of this show and we

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have not seen Lockley who's in the

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Laura: Oh, what a crime.

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And I found myself in the fourth episode,

like asking my husband, wait, what

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is, what is the name of this woman?

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Like referring to the doctor?

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Cause I haven't

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Xhafer: They don't say her

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Laura: enough.

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Yeah.

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I haven't seen her enough.

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We haven't talked to her enough.

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Like.

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We haven't made her interesting

enough in those conversations

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that I remember who she is at all.

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Xhafer: I had to look it up.

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Laura: Yeah, we did too.

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And then I felt embarrassed because

I actually know someone by this name.

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Xhafer: Are they also a doctor?

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Laura: They are not a doctor.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: Well, you get a

little bit of a pass then.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: we had, we were originally

going to do alignments and recasting

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uh, twice over Crusade each

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and break up the cast.

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Yeah, we'll just do it.

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once towards the back end, I

think, is what the plan will be.

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And if we still feel like we don't know

the characters well enough after eight or

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nine episodes, then I fuck it, I guess.

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I don't know.

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Laura: Yeah, we'll do something else.

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We'll do a different song and dance.

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Xhafer: Yeah, I uh, packed up

all my Babylon 5 cards today.

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Laura: Oh, why'd you pack them all up?

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Xhafer: Well, I uh, so

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Laura: you just put them away

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Xhafer: yeah, I just put them away.

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Laura: from, from using

them for this show.

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Okay.

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Xhafer: Well, it's like, I was keeping

them along with a bunch of old cards from

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an old other card games in a giant, like,

five siloed card box storage thing, right?

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: And I've been super into Star

Wars Unlimited, which is a new card game

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from Fantasy Flight Games that the second

set released yesterday as of recording.

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Laura: Oh.

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Xhafer: and I have been

super into this game.

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Like, how many boxes do you

think I bought yesterday?

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Heh heh heh.

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Because it's a number bigger

than 5 and less than 10.

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So, I've spent a lot of the last 24 hours

opening packs and organizing all those

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cards, and the card storage I was using

for the first set that had come out a

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couple months ago was now insufficient.

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So I had to find something else.

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And I remembered that I had this

thing with all my Babylon 5 cards,

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and a bunch of other card games in it.

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And so I packaged all of those up,

put them in their own little separate

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boxes, nice and organized, and then I

put them on a high shelf in my basement,

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where they will probably just live.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: those cards will probably not

get touched for, A long time, I imagine.

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Laura: You're not just gonna sit

around and play the Babylon five game

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Xhafer: If I knew how.

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Laura: Yeah.

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No kidding.

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Looks complicated.

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Xhafer: did find a rule book, though.

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Laura: Oh, the Psycorps rulebook!

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Look at that!

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Xhafer: How many pages

is this fucking thing?

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72.

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Laura: Oof.

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Xhafer: And it's looking

like this is a lot of rules.

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Like, of these 72, it's looking like

3 are bullshit at the end, 8 are a

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glossary, and are an index and prologue.

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So a solid 65, 66 pages of rules, give

or take, to be able to play a game.

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Nah,

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bruh.

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Laura: That's a lot.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: With Star Wars?

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Like, 8.

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And to be honest, you

don't even need them all.

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But yeah, so that's what I've That's

the uh, impetus for packing up those

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cards was all of my new Star Wars cards

that I'm deeply in love with this game.

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It's very well made.

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Really liking it.

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Laura: Good.

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Not 65 pages of rules.

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Xhafer: No.

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No, actually, the game plays

better than any other collectible

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card game I've ever touched.

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Any complaint I've ever made about a

game like Magic is addressed either in

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the rules or the systems of the game.

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Laura: Nice.

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Xhafer: It's been a lot of fun.

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I highly recommend it.

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If you're a CCG nerd, Star Wars Unlimited,

if you were on the fence, it's great.

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The second set's fun.

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It just dropped.

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Um, there's a ton of stuff to do with it.

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You can play for free on forcetable.

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net and you can get on the discord

and geek out about that shit with

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me and I will talk about it All day.

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Um,

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Laura: Get your very own

Ja'far for a little bit.

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Xhafer: Right, you just say something

and I'll be like, I get to talk about it!

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Which, hey, we've only got a couple

more of these until it's in person.

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While we're just vamping because

we know that we're going to cover

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this episode in ten minutes.

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Laura: Oh no, I, I have thoughts

about this episode actually, for once.

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Xhafer: okay.

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Well, why don't we save our talk about

our pending trip, which we did a couple

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weeks ago, but it's very real right

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Laura: Yeah, it's becoming imminent.

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Less

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Xhafer: yeah, it is, it

is less than two weeks.

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Er, no, no.

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So, yeah.

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It's

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like, it's like 15 or 16 days.

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Laura: Yeah, yeah.

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Xhafer: um,

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we'll talk more about that next week.

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Laura: Okay, well let's

talk an episode first.

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Xhafer: And Other Deceits.

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We open on I couldn't get over how

long this alien's fingers were.

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Laura: yeah, this is some

great costuming, right?

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Xhafer: Just long, creepy fingers.

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What is it about super long

fingers that are so creepy?

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Laura: unsettling,

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Xhafer: Is it Uncanny Valley stuff,

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Laura: Maybe.

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Yeah, cause like, I know E.

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T.

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is supposed to actually be, like,

cute, and we're all supposed to like E.

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T.

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because he's a good little alien boy.

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But I was very creeped out by E.

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T.

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when I was small.

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Like, I did not think he was cool.

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And he has the creepy fingers.

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He has the long, creepy, weird

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Xhafer: long, creepy, glowy fingers.

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fingers.

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shouldn't glow.

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Laura: He's a creepy puppet.

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Puppets are creepier than, than CGI, too.

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Xhafer: I never liked E.

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T.

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as a kid.

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Laura: Yeah, my son really did, though.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: What a weirdo.

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Xhafer: I also didn't like the Goonies.

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Laura: I never saw the Goonies.

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I know.

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Xhafer: I, there are so many

people mad at us right now.

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Laura: I know.

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We're just put put out our

worst takes, but you know what?

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This is a Crusade episode,

so no one's gonna listen.

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Xhafer: It's true.

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Laura: We could just say

all the worst things.

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Yeah, creepy, creepy alien fingers

and He's in this, like, darkly lit

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hallway of a weird alien ship and

uh, just watching the Excalibur on

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some kind of little computer window.

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Xhafer: Mm hmm.

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We cut over to the bridge of the

Excalibur where we've got two suits

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from Earthdome doing a ride along.

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Laura: Yeah, Gideon just hates this.

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He's doing the classic sci fi captain

personal log bitching about politicians.

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Am I

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right?

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Xhafer: Mm hmm.

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But yeah, this is great, because it's Mr.

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Wells.

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He's back.

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Laura: Uh Huh, we remember Mr.

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Wells.

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Xhafer: And of course, as

previously mentioned, this is

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John Vickery, who is also Naroon.

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Laura: Yeah, he's great.

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One of the great

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Xhafer: great.

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Yeah.

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Oh, for sure.

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So it's great to get him back, and

then he's with uh, Wayne Wilderson, who

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has a laundry list of credits as well.

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Laura: Mm hmm.

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Xhafer: I know we're

supposed to hate these guys.

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Laura: Right?

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But you

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Xhafer: This, you?

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don't, no, they're so fun.

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Laura: I love it.

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I told Aaron, like, at first,

the first scene with Kevin,

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I was like, eh, whatever.

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Kevin is the, the not

John Vickery gentleman.

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And A, Gary Cole has a real office space

energy about him when he speaks to Kevin.

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Xhafer: Mm

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Laura: Just love it.

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It's delicious.

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And then every other scene with

Kevin, I was just like, You know what?

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I need more Kevin.

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This show should have left him on

there as like a foil to Gideon to

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come in and like poke him in the

ribs when something's not going well.

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I just needed that.

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Xhafer: It's so good.

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It's the best part of this episode.

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Laura: Yep.

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Oh, but Mr.

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Wells.

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We need to remind everyone why

we saw him in Babylon 5 before.

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Wasn't he spinning shit

for the uh, Nightwatch?

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Wasn't that his whole game?

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Xhafer: I think, yeah, he

was definitely a spin guy.

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Laura: Mm hmm.

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Xhafer: Um, he was an ISN, yeah,

I think he was Nightwatch, yeah.

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Laura: Yeah, I think he was

that, that governmental thing.

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Because he says something about he knows

regime changes or something very slyly.

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And I was like, yeah, you

were a Nightwatch bro and

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you're still around, huh?

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Xhafer: The Ministry of Peace.

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Laura: Yes, those

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Xhafer: Frederick Lance Who was the

guy who was, like, forming Nightwatch.

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, so Gideon and Matheson

ID the new ship here.

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It is a first contact scenario.

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Everyone on that ship is dead except one.

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I do not understand why

they fuck with this ship.

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Yeah.

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I get so mad at, like, the next

ten minutes, because I see a dead

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ship with one survivor, and I'm

all like, Oh bro, plague, sorry.

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Like, virus, like, something

destroyed your fucking ship, and

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I want nothing to do with it.

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I don't know if that makes me,

like, a bad dude Star Trek captain.

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Um,

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Laura: You're the, you're just, um,

Todd Stashwick, blanking on his name.

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Xhafer: I'm thinking Lorca, but

that's from Discovery Season 1.

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He's actually a bad dude starship captain.

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Laura: Yeah, you're a real Liam Shaw.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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You know what?

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Worse comparisons could be made.

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Um.

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It's uh, it's just like, why

would you fuck with this?

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Right?

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And then, when they decide to fuck with

it, it's The way they go about fucking

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with it also just drives me mad, right?

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Laura: Well, you know, it wouldn't be

unheard of for this to be disease, right?

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Like, we're out here crusading in the

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Excalibur because of disease.

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Like yeah, they should probably be

a little more cognizant of these

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things as they're approaching anything

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Xhafer: And, I mean, spoilers for

next episode as well, but same shit.

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Like, oh, we found a thing

that killed everyone?

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Well, maybe it's like the thing

that's gonna kill everyone back

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home, so we should investigate.

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And it's all like, well,

they clearly didn't solve for

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the fucking problem, y'all.

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You need to be finding worlds that are

still around, and asking them if they've

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had any life threatening drug plagues that

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Laura: sure, sure, like, if you just

roll up on the one that's just all

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empty and drock plagued, like, what

are you getting out of that that you

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can't really get at home, you know,

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Xhafer: We have drug plague at home.

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Laura: that needs to be a crusade shirt.

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Xhafer: Just a meme, with Gideon's

face over the dad in the car.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: Can we go to Drakplank?

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Oh

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Laura: this is so, you know, as

we're rolling up on this ship

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Kevin is just verklempt in the

background about the colors of the

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ship behind him, just so upset.

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Kevin needs more pastels.

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I think that's what's wrong here.

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Xhafer: yeah.

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it's too RGB, right?

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This is a serious mission, I don't

care about your light up keyboards.

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nerds.

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Laura: yeah.

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Agree.

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Uh,

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So we get the theme, we, we get back

from theme and we hop in EVA suits.

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This is what Jaffer was uh, referring

to when he was like, the way

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they go about this is absolutely

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Xhafer: This is so fucking dumb.

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So one, we get a size of this ship, right?

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There's This ship is, like, at

least, like, it's kind of, it's not

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squares, it's a bunch of circles.

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But, it seems to be taking up the space

of, like, a grid of 4x4 Excaliburs.

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Which is a 2.

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5 mile ship.

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Which would mean that

this is a 12x12 mile ship.

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Without knowing how tall it is.

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Laura: Yeah, sure.

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Xhafer: This thing is fucking huge.

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Laura: And we're just going to

hop in suits and like swim over.

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Xhafer: Right?

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Instead of fucking Starfuries,

you've got Starfuries.

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We've seen them.

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It's in the fucking theme song.

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Laura: We know they've got shuttles

too, like, if you, if you're not worried

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about, like, guns and stuff, hop in

some people movers, like, you have

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them, you went to a planet, we saw that.

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why do we need suits?

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Uh,

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Xhafer: any, like, repair vehicles

for the outside of their ship on

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their long distance explorer vessel?

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Nothing that can get out and

fix a whole patch or something?

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Come

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Laura: yeah, they need robots,

you should be sending robots over.

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Xhafer: Right.

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This is so dumb.

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We find out a bunch of stuff though.

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We see that the inside

of the ship blew up.

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It looks like a lot of

the crew killed each

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Laura: Yeah, they were

like fighting each other.

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We see the floating CGI corpses

just like with their hands around

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each other's neck and stuff.

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Xhafer: That doesn't make sense

in the context of the plot.

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Laura: I mean, I wrote it off as like,

They, some of them got taken over by the

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personalities, but some of them didn't.

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Xhafer: All they have to do

is touch someone and they

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Laura: yeah, you don't want

to wring each other's necks

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Xhafer: Yeah, the second you touch them,

you become them and you stop fighting.

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Laura: Okay, that is a solid point.

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Xhafer: The only thing that would

make sense for this for me, and

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this is me filling in a ton of

blanks for a show and doing a bunch

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of mental legwork to make it okay.

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So I'm, we're just going to fucking

rip open this plot right now.

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If you haven't watched this episode,

listen, or we're not, this is

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not going to be chronological.

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I'm sorry.

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So we find out that these aliens are like,

Many minds that are like spreading right

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Laura: Mm hmm.

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Xhafer: implication Is that there are a,

a number of them that are distinct beings

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and you can inhabit the same body at the

same time, which is why when they found

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the one, it was like the infinite mirror.

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And while the dudes were reaching for

the one dude, it's like past their

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consciousness is up to be able to survive

in the one body, hypothetically, if

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that's the case, and they're all actually

individuals who sometimes hive mind,

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there might be a limited number of them

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Laura: Right.

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Right.

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Xhafer: they only had, you know,

like Several hundred or something.

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Now that doesn't work with some

of the stuff fucking well says

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later in the episode about taking

over whole planets and colonizing

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and stuff, but it's just like, I

don't know, it's just fucking dumb.

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It just, it seems like if you had

just sat back for 30 seconds and

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looked at how this works, this

is not the scene you would find.

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And it doesn't impact the plot at all,

seeing them fighting each other, there's,

422

:

they're like, oh, maybe it's a mutiny.

423

:

Well, that doesn't make sense.

424

:

And then they just move on.

425

:

It's there for a line that has no

bearing on the plot whatsoever.

426

:

Laura: Yeah.

427

:

And we could have saved the CGI

budget here, put it somewhere else,

428

:

Right?

429

:

Xhafer: Mm

430

:

Laura: Oh, well, you could

have put spears in their hands.

431

:

Like, you could stab

somebody from a distance

432

:

Xhafer: I mean, that's the zombie plan.

433

:

Yeah.

434

:

Stay,

435

:

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

436

:

Xhafer: feet away from me, please.

437

:

Laura: Stabby, stabby.

438

:

Xhafer: they're there for.

439

:

so anyways, they pull this

lone survivor into Med Lab

440

:

Laura: Yeah,

441

:

Xhafer: to try and save them.

442

:

And they like, start dying very

rapidly, even though they were totally

443

:

stable, to get someone to run in,

so that way we see the like, special

444

:

effects of consciousness transference.

445

:

Laura: Yeah.

446

:

Yeah.

447

:

Janie, Janie is just too empathetic.

448

:

She's presumably a nurse or

maybe another doctor in med lab.

449

:

Runs into the, the chamber like

alien atmosphere chamber or whatever.

450

:

And uh, starts trying to defib this

alien, which another thing I was

451

:

like, do we know that's gonna work?

452

:

Do we know that's not

going to make it worse?

453

:

Slick.

454

:

Xhafer: Better than nothing, I

455

:

guess?

456

:

But, I mean, so, Defibrillator works

by stimulating muscles, so if it's got

457

:

a heart, you should, made of muscle,

hypothetically a defibrillator would

458

:

work on an alien, I would think.

459

:

Assuming that their muscles

work in any way similar to ours.

460

:

That'd be

461

:

Laura: Yeah.

462

:

Yeah.

463

:

So maybe neutral, but,

464

:

Xhafer: yeah, in structure.

465

:

Not necessarily in, like, anatomy.

466

:

They don't need to be like red

meat, white meat, kind of like,

467

:

you know, they don't, we don't

need to get that specific with it.

468

:

I think as long as uh, electricity makes

a muscle contract or whatever at the

469

:

heart is using to pump, if it's not a

muscle, if electricity causes contraction.

470

:

Regardless, I'm done doing mental fucking

gymnastics for you, Joe, and this episode.

471

:

That's it.

472

:

We hit the line.

473

:

No math for you today.

474

:

Laura: for whatever

reason, it doesn't work.

475

:

And uh, the doctor tells Gideon she

just can't figure out why he died.

476

:

Like, it's almost like he did it

on purpose, the little bastard.

477

:

Yeah

478

:

Xhafer: the doctor Dr.

479

:

Chambers here gives Janie some shit.

480

:

Like, well, you're gonna have to

do a full decontainment including,

481

:

like, a body cavity thing?

482

:

Laura: that's clearly a punishment.

483

:

I think Janie needs to go to HR.

484

:

Xhafer: Right.

485

:

This is some, this is

like some heavy kink shit.

486

:

It's like, this is some really

weird workplace dynamic kink

487

:

shit and I am very uncomfortable.

488

:

Laura: hmm.

489

:

And we're all trapped on a ship together.

490

:

Things are gonna get weird.

491

:

Xhafer: I mean, not, not because of

the body cavity search, to be clear.

492

:

Uh, It's improper power dynamics

that make me uncomfortable.

493

:

I'm not gonna yuck anyone's yums.

494

:

Laura: Right.

495

:

We're all about proper power dynamics here

496

:

in the Who Are You Babylon 5

497

:

Xhafer: 100%.

498

:

Yeah, proper power dynamics is

important in any relationship.

499

:

Mm

500

:

Laura: The language guy whose name I

also had a lot of trouble remembering,

501

:

Max Eilerson, is lecturing his

waiter about salt like an asshole.

502

:

Xhafer: God.

503

:

He is a miserable excuse of a human being.

504

:

Laura: I feel like I say what

a dick about this guy a lot.

505

:

Xhafer: Every episode.

506

:

As you should.

507

:

Multiple times an episode.

508

:

Unless he's siloed out of it.

509

:

Laura: Yeah.

510

:

I don't, we might've had one

that he was siloed out, but yeah.

511

:

Xhafer: Yeah uh, the,

the Technomage episode.

512

:

I

513

:

Laura: Okay.

514

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

515

:

And we were all better for it.

516

:

I don't even know what he was doing in

that scene besides lecturing about salt.

517

:

Xhafer: Yeah, he's, he's translating the

language and he comes to the conclusion

518

:

that there are two separate languages.

519

:

Laura: Ooh,

520

:

Xhafer: dun,

521

:

Laura: Why would we need that?

522

:

Janie goes and touches some guy and

transmits and gives him a ghost.

523

:

Xhafer: yeah, this is the

worst game of tag ever.

524

:

Laura: yeah.

525

:

She gives him some kind of orders

in an alien language, and then keeps

526

:

touching people back from commercial.

527

:

Xhafer: Right?

528

:

Like this is an HR nightmare.

529

:

Laura: language guy sucks

again, I wrote, so he must have

530

:

done something else stupid.

531

:

Xhafer: So he figures it out.

532

:

Like he cracks the code for the language.

533

:

Because the captain would

say ship the most, right?

534

:

Totally.

535

:

That makes sense.

536

:

And from there he was able to

figure out their entire language.

537

:

Which, good for him.

538

:

Laura: Yeah, he's figured out

that the spoken language and the

539

:

written language on the ship, or

the Yeah, the letters in the ship,

540

:

like the, the consoles and stuff,

541

:

Xhafer: mhm.

542

:

Laura: common.

543

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

544

:

Completely different languages.

545

:

But he gets the captain's logs.

546

:

And almost gets merc'd.

547

:

A security guard totally saves

his life by, like, jumping in

548

:

front of a bullet, basically.

549

:

To uh, let him get on the tram

so he can call the captain just

550

:

to be all like, Shit's fucked.

551

:

Here's what's going on.

552

:

Laura: Oh, oh, you

missed the most important

553

:

Xhafer: Oh, did

554

:

Laura: point of this episode, is

at some point when all this is

555

:

happening, Kevin decides he hates the

uniforms, and that they have to go.

556

:

Xhafer: Oh, yeah.

557

:

For sure.

558

:

Laura: Yes, this is very important.

559

:

Oh, and he wants to take away Gideon's

pockets, so Gideon's gonna know

560

:

what it feels like to be a woman.

561

:

Yay.

562

:

Yay.

563

:

Xhafer: Cut up to the bridge where

the captain and lieutenant use a space

564

:

Roomba to check on some of the decks.

565

:

Some are okay and some are not.

566

:

And when they're using the floating camera

on deck 9 wells, it's just like, Oh,

567

:

hey, we're ready to discuss terms, y'all.

568

:

Laura: Yeah, I really

liked the hover Roomba.

569

:

That was pretty cool.

570

:

Xhafer: Yeah, I want one.

571

:

I don't, actually.

572

:

They're terrifying.

573

:

Uh,

574

:

Laura: Diarrhea?

575

:

Like, can you imagine if that

Roomba was a hover Roomba?

576

:

Uh Huh.

577

:

Huh.

578

:

Xhafer: I've, I've kind of

always wanted one because I

579

:

thought they were cool, right?

580

:

But I will tell you what the this episode

airs after they get back, so I don't

581

:

feel like I'm betraying anything here.

582

:

The Curlies are out on a cruise right now.

583

:

Benjamin from Last Time On

and Gloryann from Cool Girls.

584

:

And so I am going in house,

like, I'm checking on their

585

:

plants, watering stuff, right?

586

:

And when I was watering plants there

the other day, their Roomba was on.

587

:

One, I opened the door and I thought

empty house and I heard something running

588

:

and I'm just all like, the fuck is that?

589

:

Right, just like, I'm immediately

in like, is someone in here?

590

:

Like, what is going on?

591

:

Cause something is, something is

moving and operating around this house.

592

:

And it's like, oh, it's

the fucking Roomba.

593

:

Right?

594

:

So, and then, I'm like trying to

like water the plants and I swear

595

:

to fuck that thing was following me.

596

:

I'm like trying not to step

on their Roomba constantly.

597

:

Laura: Yeah.

598

:

That's what it's like to have a Roomba

599

:

Xhafer: I, I have never gone

from, Oh, that'd be cool!

600

:

To, I never want one of these things

in my fucking life so quickly.

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

Laura: and it'll sense it alert to your

app to be like, I'm stuck somewhere.

603

:

And you're like, well,

I'm at fucking work.

604

:

So

605

:

Yeah.

606

:

So Gideon decides he is

gonna go down there to talk.

607

:

To the Sealed Off deck and believes

he won't get got for some reason.

608

:

Xhafer: I mean, they

weld it shut over there.

609

:

Like they, they take an airlock and just

610

:

Laura: yeah,

611

:

Xhafer: down.

612

:

Laura: okay.

613

:

I'm, I'm not, I'm not convinced.

614

:

Xhafer: That's fair.

615

:

Laura: Wells tells uh, Gideon all about

how they don't have their own bodies and

616

:

they just take over others, you know,

they want to take over a world again, I

617

:

guess they've taken over worlds before.

618

:

I don't know why you do this though,

like, in perpetuity, like, once you

619

:

take over bodies on a world, can't you

just, like, reproduce your own bodies?

620

:

I don't know.

621

:

Xhafer: Yeah, it's

622

:

I don't,

623

:

Laura: It's, it's hanging by a thread.

624

:

Xhafer: I don't have good answers

and I'm not gonna work for them.

625

:

Ha

626

:

Laura: Okay, but you know what?

627

:

Kevin is all of us because he is just

staring at Daniel Day Kim's cheekbones.

628

:

Yeah.

629

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

630

:

Yeah, we get a little bit

of back and forth here.

631

:

Um, On the bridge, and then

Wells and Gideon talking.

632

:

Gideon just like, rattles off

the JMS greatest hits list.

633

:

Uh, Just like, who are you, what do

you want, where are we going, what's

634

:

going on, all that shit real quick.

635

:

So they're just like, drop us off

on some planet, make us someone

636

:

else's problem, Gideon isn't

particularly interested in this,

637

:

Laura: No, no, he's too lawful.

638

:

He's a lawful guy.

639

:

Xhafer: Yeah, but Kevin is

like, figuring it out, man.

640

:

He's all like, why, like, they, they

were all outstretched to the one dude?

641

:

And they were all still touching?

642

:

He didn't think that was kinda weird?

643

:

Laura: See, we need Kevin.

644

:

The show needs Kevin.

645

:

Xhafer: Problem solver.

646

:

Laura: So Gideon and Matheson

ultimately strategize.

647

:

They want to cut the aliens

off and drop the temperature.

648

:

Xhafer: Yeah, the captain fucks with

the thermostat and Wells handles it as

649

:

well as most middle aged white dudes.

650

:

Laura: yeah.

651

:

Just calls them up and

straight up shoots a guy.

652

:

Xhafer: Right?

653

:

Laura: oh yeah?

654

:

Xhafer: violence.

655

:

Laura: Mm hmm.

656

:

They like, you know.

657

:

Touch, touch him, and then his little

alien spirit moves out, and then

658

:

they just shoot the crew member.

659

:

So, they were thinking

about that continuity.

660

:

So he's gonna start killing more if

Gideon doesn't comply with his needs.

661

:

But Gideon is gonna pull a Janeway.

662

:

He's ready to like, go in himself and self

distract the whole ship as a backup plan.

663

:

what

664

:

Xhafer: Mm

665

:

hmm.

666

:

Laura: plan.

667

:

Yeah, Gideon gets in his space suit

because they can't get in through

668

:

the suit, cause they gotta touch him.

669

:

I guess they can go through clothes, but

not whatever shielding is in the suit.

670

:

Xhafer: Sure.

671

:

Laura: Jafar's over it.

672

:

Xhafer: So over it.

673

:

Yep.

674

:

He tries to pass them a message

by speaking in incorrect what's

675

:

the word I'm looking for here?

676

:

Laura: it's like a code.

677

:

I mean,

678

:

he's just, mm hmm.

679

:

Mm hmm.

680

:

Xhafer: Metaphor!

681

:

Yeah.

682

:

Laura: there's that drop.

683

:

Yeah.

684

:

It's like he's, he's purposefully

fucking up his Tamarian so that

685

:

Max will get a message from that.

686

:

Cause, cause Max is a genius.

687

:

We know that because he's a jerk.

688

:

So,

689

:

Xhafer: hmm.

690

:

All geniuses are jerks.

691

:

Laura: verifiable, but not

all jerks are geniuses.

692

:

So he says, I think

693

:

Xhafer: yeah.

694

:

Laura: And,

695

:

Xhafer: Yeah, this

696

:

Laura: that those sound the same,

but they are spelled different.

697

:

Xhafer: My subtitles helped a lot here.

698

:

Laura: Yeah.

699

:

Xhafer: a lot of the heavy lifting.

700

:

Laura: Truly.

701

:

Xhafer: They figured out they're

gonna cut the oxygen out.

702

:

To get everyone to kind of

force their way around, I guess.

703

:

Laura: so, why could we figure

out, like, why did we If we figured

704

:

out we could cut off the air, why

did we drop the temperature first?

705

:

Like, this seems like an unnecessary step.

706

:

Go straight to cut off the air.

707

:

Jaffara's yawning, everyone.

708

:

It is

709

:

Xhafer: It is,

710

:

It is, almost 11 o'clock here.

711

:

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

712

:

This is not just a

commentary on this episode of

713

:

Xhafer: It is though, it is, I promise.

714

:

Laura: Heh heh

715

:

Xhafer: and the like 7 percent

beer I'm drinking is starting

716

:

to hit me a little bit.

717

:

Anyways yeah, I mean, I stopped

looking for logic in this episode.

718

:

I think the only reason you would do it

like this is because you needed time to

719

:

put the dead not dead crewman in place.

720

:

Because that seems to be the crux

of the solution pending here.

721

:

So they, they get a crewman in a space

suit to survive but it's the crewman

722

:

who was permanently brain damaged.

723

:

Hours ago?

724

:

Laura: So we're The security guard

that, like, jumped in front of Eilerson

725

:

died.

726

:

Like, he was killed.

727

:

Xhafer: They had him on life support.

728

:

Yeah.

729

:

Laura: And somehow he's, he's the

savior of us all because we put him

730

:

in a space suit and they think that,

oh, we're gonna hop into this one

731

:

body and survive this decompression.

732

:

whoops.

733

:

Xhafer: Yep, they can't move.

734

:

They just end up trapped.

735

:

Laura: not functional.

736

:

even

737

:

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

738

:

I have so many problems with this.

739

:

At first, I was all like, Oh, they

just went into a dead body on accident

740

:

before I realized what had actually

741

:

Laura: not completely dead.

742

:

Yeah, there's some ethical

things there, I feel like,

743

:

that are a problem.

744

:

Xhafer: this is not what would

happen in a Star Trek episode.

745

:

Laura: Yeah, but, to ramp up the drama

just a tiny bit, as they're, like, spacing

746

:

this deck, Or this alien, at least,

or alien's presence, whatever, yeah.

747

:

They start screaming inside the body

that they know what Gideon is looking

748

:

for and they could help him find it.

749

:

And, too late, bye.

750

:

Xhafer: yep.

751

:

Gets launched into space and

then fucking blasted to hell.

752

:

Laura: Yeah, so

753

:

screamings of a, a desperate

Alien consciousness, or do

754

:

you think they do kind of know

about it and could help find it?

755

:

Mm

756

:

Xhafer: They're kind of like Hive Mindy.

757

:

So, I mean, if you've spent a ton

of time invading a ton of worlds,

758

:

Laura: hmm.

759

:

Xhafer: like, this might be

something you've come across.

760

:

Laura: Yeah,

761

:

yeah, and we meld

762

:

together.

763

:

We all know about it.

764

:

Yeah.

765

:

Xhafer: Yeah, you've been to a world

where they solved for this problem

766

:

and then you took it over instead.

767

:

You know, checking in places where you

should be, where there's people living.

768

:

Laura: Yeah.

769

:

Xhafer: Um,

770

:

Laura: Yeah, Gideon.

771

:

No, it doesn't

772

:

Xhafer: I mean, I don't know.

773

:

I don't really

774

:

Laura: hmm.

775

:

Xhafer: Like, it has no

implication on the plot

776

:

because they just get

777

:

Laura: Just

778

:

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

779

:

Laura: It makes it seem like, you know,

Gideon is so good and pure that even

780

:

though they offered him a reasonable deal,

like, you know, we'll leave your guys

781

:

alone, you just drop us off somewhere.

782

:

Like, just uh, just make

us somebody else's problem.

783

:

Gideon wouldn't take that.

784

:

And what makes us wonder,

like, if Gideon had known.

785

:

Would he have taken that?

786

:

I don't know.

787

:

I don't think he would have

taken it, obviously, but

788

:

Xhafer: I think if it's something that

you were going to offer in earnest,

789

:

you would have offered it in earnest

when you were trying to make the

790

:

the good faith deal the first time.

791

:

Laura: yeah.

792

:

Because it doesn't have,

like, a cost to it.

793

:

That's the thing.

794

:

It's like, if it was going to cost them

something, really, to offer it up, like,

795

:

you should have offered it earlier.

796

:

Xhafer: Yeah, you could be like, take us

to a planet, drop us off, by the way we

797

:

know where a cure for the drach plague

is, and we'll give you the coordinates of

798

:

that world after we're safe and landed.

799

:

Laura: Yeah.

800

:

Xhafer: And then you find a shitty

colony that no one cares about,

801

:

and drop them off, and you end

the series in the next episode.

802

:

Because if you're going to go

through the, the moral exercise

803

:

of what you do to this poor brain

dead person who has no agency, I

804

:

Laura: Mm hmm.

805

:

Yeah.

806

:

Is, is it a lot, a lot different

than what you would do to a

807

:

unknown, unexplored colony?

808

:

Yeah.

809

:

Xhafer: mean, and you can

at least warn the colony.

810

:

Laura: Yeah.

811

:

Xhafer: Be like, or, or drop

them off, get the coordinates,

812

:

just nuke the fucker from orbit.

813

:

Laura: Yeah.

814

:

Yeah.

815

:

Xhafer: Yes.

816

:

Super laser, you've got one.

817

:

Laura: Yeah, this is really

horrifying about taking the brain

818

:

dead body and using it this way.

819

:

Like, you know,

820

:

I don't know that we 100 percent really

know what a person is experiencing

821

:

when they're in that sort of state.

822

:

Like.

823

:

Xhafer: I mean, I'm an organ donor.

824

:

Laura: Uh Huh.

825

:

Xhafer: And if they were an organ

donor, I feel like that's close enough

826

:

to volunteering for this.

827

:

That's not terribly different.

828

:

Um, but

829

:

Laura: I suppose if It could be

like, you're in the space military

830

:

now, you're all organ donors.

831

:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

832

:

Xhafer: Uh

833

:

it's just, it's just so weird.

834

:

It's, it's just a weird choice to make.

835

:

And I just hate it.

836

:

I just hate it.

837

:

Like, it's just, this, it's

like, it kind of makes me rewatch

838

:

the 90s Outer Limits show.

839

:

Because

840

:

the,

841

:

Laura: that.

842

:

Xhafer: because I feel like that

show could have done something with

843

:

this that was more thought provoking

than just making me feel bad.

844

:

Laura: Yeah.

845

:

There's just so many things

that are just like Yeah.

846

:

glossed over in this episode that

really deserved more thought.

847

:

Cause in Babylon five, they

got more thought most of the

848

:

time, not a hundred percent, but

849

:

Xhafer: But most of the time, I

think that's the biggest issue

850

:

with Crusade as a series so far.

851

:

Laura: Yeah.

852

:

Oh, four,

853

:

Xhafer: three Three.

854

:

Laura: nailed it.

855

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

856

:

Got it.

857

:

We'll just wrap it up.

858

:

We're gonna take a couple months off.

859

:

We'll be back in November

with Battlestar Galactica.

860

:

We did it all.

861

:

We fucking did it.

862

:

Laura: Mission accomplished.

863

:

Xhafer: Got it in three baby!

864

:

Laura: Speaking of things that are

uncomfortable, Kevin presents the

865

:

new uniforms and I thought they did.

866

:

I thought they looked

hideous at this point.

867

:

I don't know.

868

:

Maybe it'll grow on me,

but I was like, Ooh,

869

:

Xhafer: I saw these things and

had one thought in my mind.

870

:

Laura: yeah, I

871

:

Xhafer: Tell me I'm wrong.

872

:

They look just like the Galaxy Quest unit.

873

:

I don't know.

874

:

Laura: Hmm.

875

:

What was, when did that come out?

876

:

Did we have some spare

uniforms in addition to those

877

:

Starship Troopers helmets?

878

:

Like we just need to repurpose some stuff.

879

:

Like.

880

:

Mm-Hmm.

881

:

Xhafer: around, I think

Galaxy Quest came out in 99.

882

:

So Crusade would have

been right around then.

883

:

Laura: Well, yeah, we're

just picking up their vibes.

884

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

885

:

Greys Are really in this year.

886

:

Laura: yeah.

887

:

Yeah.

888

:

Max goes to see the doctor and

is, you know, max kind of had

889

:

like a little turn in the episode

after the guy s the security

890

:

guard sacrificed his life for him.

891

:

Um, and you know, it has been mopey

about like, that guy saved my life and.

892

:

I hope that he would have

wanted his body used that way.

893

:

And the, the doctor basically calls him

out on being a giant narcissist, which I

894

:

enjoyed.

895

:

Xhafer: Yeah.

896

:

He needs that

897

:

being called out for

being a giant narcissist.

898

:

Yeah.

899

:

Laura: Yeah.

900

:

And then we were reminded that yes,

this whole thing is very sad that

901

:

two people died because we end the

episode on Gideon dictating a letter

902

:

to Greenberg's mom and Arkham's dad.

903

:

I hope I'm reading my notes

correctly to the credits.

904

:

Like they get names here after

they're very dead because they

905

:

were expendable up until now.

906

:

Xhafer: Yep.

907

:

And that's, that's an episode.

908

:

I gotta ask you, Laura, on a scale

of one to four main guns firing,

909

:

how do you feel about this episode?

910

:

Laura: Look, I know you, you seem

to be pretty down on this episode,

911

:

but I absolutely want more Kevin.

912

:

And I'm giving this episode three

of the main guns firing just because

913

:

I want Kevin to show back up.

914

:

I know he won't, but it would be

so great if we just decided that we

915

:

needed an onboard PR guy to like, make

snappy jokes at Gideon all the time.

916

:

amazing.

917

:

Amazing.

918

:

Xhafer: No, no.

919

:

I gave this episode a lot of shit.

920

:

Uh, part of that, part of that is

because it's late and I'm cranky.

921

:

Uh, because I am, I am,

just a grumpy old man

922

:

Laura: there's a lot to be

cranky about in the world today.

923

:

Xhafer: Uh, But as far as like,

episodes of Crusade go, this

924

:

Laura: huh.

925

:

Xhafer: the better ones.

926

:

Laura: Yeah, I thought it felt

pretty like we tried to hang

927

:

it all together pretty well.

928

:

You and I picked those seams apart,

but, you know, that's our job, right?

929

:

We're media critics.

930

:

Xhafer: Oh no.

931

:

Laura: I absolutely do not

identify as a media critic.

932

:

I

933

:

just thought it was funny.

934

:

Well, you've gotten like media

passes to shit and stuff.

935

:

So I was like, guess we're legit, huh?

936

:

Xhafer: He, well, that's just because

I don't want to pay for things.

937

:

Laura: I identify as a media

critic when I want free.

938

:

Xhafer: I identify as a media critic

to places that offer press badges and

939

:

Laura: Hehehehe.

940

:

Xhafer: Yeah, this wasn't bad.

941

:

I definitely put this at a

strong, you know, we'll say three.

942

:

I had written two and a half.

943

:

But Kevin is fun enough

to boost this up to three.

944

:

I, I concur three out of the

four main guns firing for this

945

:

Laura: Splendid.

946

:

Splendid.

947

:

I hope Crusade can keep it up.

948

:

Hehehe.

949

:

Xhafer: it can't.

950

:

Speaking of which, next episode.

951

:

We're gonna be skipping ahead

two to follow this perfect JMS

952

:

order or whatever that we chose.

953

:

Um, we're going to watch

episode 10, the memory.

954

:

Uh, Galen warns Gideon not

to explore a planet where the

955

:

inhabitants were suddenly eradicated.

956

:

Laura: Hm.

957

:

Again, we're going and

looking for the dead people.

958

:

Yeah.

959

:

Xhafer: We're, we're

looking for the dead people.

960

:

Um, I, I feel very, like we've both

already watched the next episode

961

:

cause we were planning on recording

back to back before it got super

962

:

late and I got a little buzzed.

963

:

Laura: Uh huh.

964

:

Xhafer: But we'll talk

about it next episode.

965

:

Laura: Yes.

966

:

It'll be fun.

967

:

Until then, we have

some thank yous to say.

968

:

Ja'far, would you

969

:

Xhafer: We do.

970

:

I will, of course.

971

:

Thank you, Jeremy, Jeremy Siegel for

our absolutely fantastic theme music.

972

:

Thank you so much for

putting that together for us.

973

:

Really appreciate it.

974

:

You can find more of Jeremy's

work at JeremySiegel42.

975

:

bandcamp.

976

:

com on streaming services

as Nuclear Jaguar.

977

:

And then he's also been

playing Savants lately.

978

:

So if you see a show with them and

you're in that area, go see him.

979

:

Support live music.

980

:

Fuck yeah.

981

:

Laura: Yeah, I bet he

would be delighted as well.

982

:

And thank you to Angry Duck Time Machine

on Instagram for our podcast artwork.

983

:

Xhafer: Aaron, thanks so much

for editing this podcast.

984

:

I hope the drops I called for

weren't too hard to find this time.

985

:

Laura: And thank you to you, the listener,

for being here on the Crusade for Crusade.

986

:

Xhafer: We'll see you next week, Internet.

987

:

Laura: All right.

988

:

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Who Are You?
A Babylon 5 Watchcast
Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.